Do Sail On, Sailor vocals of Carl or Dennis exist?

[Magic Transistor Radio]

I still have all my copies and other stuff in several boxes, stored in UHaul Storage in a small town in centeral Florida.

 

Can we have the address?

[Jay]

Thank you very much for your input, Mr Desper!! I wonder, even if what you might have in storage may only be "dubs" and not the original master recordings, have you ever thought of maybe bringing it to the attention of the rest of the group for further analysis or consideration for a possible use on an archival project? The remaining members of the group may not even recall or even know of the existance of said tapes.

One more quick question, if I may. On some of the earlier incarnations of the group, do you recall if the lyrics were different than what ended up in the final version?

[Mike's Beard]

Wasn't the original lyrics the ones Ray Kennedy used when he cut the song himself? The ones with the "coked out" references.

[Stephen W. Desper]

So I'm gonna try to figure this out.

Is it pretty much established that the instrumental track of "Sail On, Sailor" was cut with Brian during the time of the Surf's Up sessions, therefore pre-dating the trip to Holland? Because as I understood it before, I thought I remember hearing that Brian had nothing to do with the actual recording of the song, besides giving instructions to Carl over the phone when they supposedly tracked it in late 1972.

Before reading all of the info from Mr. Desper, my opinion always seemed to be that "Sail On, Sailor" was something that Brian had on a very skeletal level, and was then fleshed out by Carl. But Mr. Desper's recounting of the evolution of the song make it sound like Brian was much more involved in the tracking.

As far as the "hypnotize me, Van Dyke" tape, I personally don't wanna hear Brian experiencing  that kind of psychic pain. Maybe if the rest of the demo is musically sound and insightful, then they could use that part of the tape, but hopefully they would not include the exchange between Brian and Van Dyke.

COMMENT: 

Sunflower and Surf's Up were two albums recorded over many years. Both have parts recorded by Brian in the late sixties with some songs (like SOS) released on albums after the Home Studio era.  During this long period of several years, the creating process moved and flowed, as a river; continuous, but with turns; never stopping, but with moments of brilliance and wanting. Don't fall into the trap of thinking, as do so many fans, that each day has an event scheduled to unfold. Fans look at a series of historical events they know and try to string them together in an effort to form a complete picture that fits into someone else's idea of how things happened. That will only give a false impression. Brian does not wake up to an alarm clock, look at the calendar, call his office, report to a studio, make a record, accept an award and then retire for the night. Yes, the history books may say this-and-that happened and when, but its mostly a haphazard turn of events, greatly influenced by emotion and feeling. These are artists, tempered by their internal sensitivities and sensibilities of the moment.

So when you say, “I remember hearing that Brian had nothing to do with the actual recording of the song” are you saying that for three or four years Brian did no recording? Or did some visitor venture into the studio one day and find everyone but Brian recording and then broadcasting that Brian wasn’t involved in the creative process?  How long is “the actual recording of the song?” Is it scheduled to happen on Monday – like we start at 10 AM  have the  verses done by lunch time and work on the chorus until supper?  ‘Cause it just doesn’t work that way.

Let’s be clear about Brian’s activity during the later part of 20/20 on to the beginning of Holland . . . a period that more or less spans the time he was depressed, ill, and falling victim to experimental drugs. He may have been all that, but he was still Brian Wilson, a creative song writer, producer, arranger and singer; who has his glorious moments of genius and inspiration. With a recording facility in his house, a studio under his bedroom, the support of family and friends, and the ability to call any musician he wanted at any time or date . . . of course he was involved in the recording process. He just was not in charge of it. That responsibility was turned over to brother Carl.

During this period of time, I might have as many as 35 songs on the tape shelf in one stage of production or another. Sail-On, Sailor was one of those songs in the slow process of becoming available to the public as a Beach Boy creation. Some songs were collected to become 20/20, others Sunflower, etc. Some never made it and remain unfinished. SOS never quite seemed to get the final nod for release until very late.

Like all the songs of this era, Brian had his moments of involvement.  Just who do you think is playing the piano part in SOS?  That piano part is what holds the entire song together. It is the hook upon which all other parts hang. Brian’s piano is what leads the song from the first downbeat. Add drums and bass and that is pretty much it. With an organ harmonic pad and guitar riffs, you’ve got the track. So yes, he was very involved in the tracking of SOS. Then we have the real stuff of the song, the vocals. Do you not hear Brian in the OOOs and Ahhh’s? Isn’t the signature Brian harmonic arrangement the very fabric of the oral overlays? Does all this vocal collaboration really sound like it was manufactured over the telephone?

How many songs that have ever been written express some form of psychic pain, either from love gone wrong, the loss of love, or a soul seeking love?  This is the stuff of songwriting. Masterfully crafted and expressed ever so pointedly by Parks in SOS. His lyrics border on onomatopoeia poetry and sound words.

What a contrast!  The words of SOS; so insightful and contemplative. A microcosm of life. Yet the song itself is one of the greatest dance songs of the album. Huh?  A dance song?  Yes it is. Just get a little loose and move your body and feet to the rhythm. It’s a dance. I know – I’ve danced to it with Carl and Dennis in the studio. When they were laying vocals, no one could stand still. It’s a dance all right! The dance of life . . . Sail-On,  Sailor.

~swd

[Autotune]

In the oroginal SWD thread, Mr. Desper stated that Blondie copied almost exactly Carl's original phrasing.

...


If you ask me, it was a mistake giving the lead vocal lf SOS to Blondie (God bless him).

[Loaf]

Mr Desper, thank you so much for posting on here. A reliable source of some wonderful news!

I would love to hear your tape collection, is it likely to come out at all?

[MarcellaHasDirtyFeet]

Thank you, Mr. Desper. That last paragraph gave me a soulgasm.

[startBBtoday]

I know there were some murmers that during a BW solo show Brian said that he didn't like this song. Considering how into it he has seemed performing this song on C50, I'm starting to think that might have been a deadpan Brian joke.

[Mikie]

Dr. Leonard, if Blondie copied Carl's phrasing exactly, why would Blondie's vocal be a mistake?  It went to #49 on the charts, which ain't bad. Do you think it would have gone higher if Carl did it? Doubt it. I thought Blondie did a great job on it. Also think Carl's live version is great too, but...

[Banana]

Wow, EXCELLENT commentary from Mr. Desper.  This is why I joined this forum.  Thank you for your insight.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

I know there were some murmers that during a BW solo show Brian said that he didn't like this song. Considering how into it he has seemed performing this song on C50, I'm starting to think that might have been a deadpan Brian joke.

I think he likes it well enough.  I was once at a Pet Sounds w/Al rehearsal, and in between, like, IJWMFTT and Pet Sounds he just started to play the B section for a few minutes.  He at least enjoys the chords.

[The Shift]

I would love to hear your tape collection, is it likely to come out at all?

I wonder if Mr Desper would countenance a club trip to his storage facility!? 

[Stephen W. Desper]

Dr. Leonard, if Blondie copied Carl's phrasing exactly, why would Blondie's vocal be a mistake?  It went to #49 on the charts, which ain't bad. Do you think it would have gone higher if Carl did it? Doubt it. I thought Blondie did a great job on it. Also think Carl's live version is great too, but...

COMMENT:  Carl produced SOS.  He also produced two FLAME albums, one yet to be released. So Blondie is familier with Carl, not only as a Beach Boy singer, but as a vocal producer who has produced many of his vocals. Certainly Blondie can bring his own interpertation to a song, but in this case his producer would be quite involved in that interpertaion. Carl, having worked out the inflections, pacing, and phrasing to his liking would have passed along his ideas to Blondie, who tempered by his own style would sing the lead in his own voice. At first he may strive to emulate Carl or "follow his lead," having heard him sing the song many times. That may be where it starts and ends for the recording. But as time moves along the performance captured for the Holland release becomes something to build on and add your own little variations here and their as you sing the lead night after night in concert. The same holds true for Carl. 

If you think Blondie's vocal is a mistake, it is not his to make, it's the producer's.  When I hear Sail-On, Sailor I don't hear a mistake, a bad take, or a take over of the vocal. I hear Carl's take through Blondie, and I also hear Blondie's take.

That is good production.    ~swd 

[Stephen W. Desper]

I would love to hear your tape collection, is it likely to come out at all?

I wonder if Mr Desper would countenance a club trip to his storage facility!? 

COMMENT:  You are making too big a deal over my little comment. Yea I've got a few things others don't, but Alan Boyd has been through all I have and made copies of what he wanted for posterity. Not everything was duplicated, but enough.

I doubt you have the time to completely enjoy the FIFTY years of music these guys have given all of us. So don't worry about a few bars on a tape in my UHaul Storage Unit #4. What I have is a grain of sand compared to the beach full of surfing music these guys have sung through the century.

Good Listening,  ~Stephen W. Desper

[Mikie]

If you think Blondie's vocal is a mistake, it is not his to make, it's the producer's.  When I hear Sail-On, Sailor I don't hear a mistake, a bad take, or a take over of the vocal. I hear Carl's take through Blondie, and I also hear Blondie's take.

Thank you, Stephen. Just to be clear, I was replying to Dr. Lenny's assertion that Carl giving the SOS vocal to Blondie was a mistake. I don't think Carl's selection of Blondie to be the lead vocalist was a mistake at all. Quite the contrary. I think Blondie added a lot of soul and feeling to the song with his vocal. And I agree with you that Carl's production was great. Hearing the instrumental track to SOS on the "Hawthorne" CD made me appreciate the track even more.

Thanks for taking the time, Mr. Desper.  Have your "Recording The Beach Boys" book and still looking forward to your update someday!

[Stephen W. Desper]

That's a shame if it's true. I know I've seen old posts by Desper here where he said he had a version done in 1971.

Right, which he played over the phone to somebody, who said it was just Blondie.

I was the guy who heard it over the phone courtesy of Mr. Desper. The tape he played me was definitely a different mix from what was released and featured more elaborate backing vocals that kind of simulated the rolling of waves. Mr. Desper believed the tape dated back to 1971 (just before his tenure with the band ended) and was under the impression the lead vocal was Carl. I could not distinguish any difference in the lead vocal at all from the released version - it still sounded like the same Blondie vocal we've heard all these years (even though I wanted to hear a difference). Again, it was over a phone so I can't say with certainty.

However, there is no question that the backing vocals were completely different. I was reminded of how early takes of "Help Me Rhonda" and "Little Honda" featured more complicated backing vocals that were scaled back for the release versions - the same thing with this mix of "Sailor". It would make a nice rarity on any upcoming box sets.

Soooo glad the person, you, who he played the clip for turned up!  Saves me from having to remember the details.

COMMENT:  A lot has been written since you posted the above words. I hope you can see now, how what you heard over the phone was some version of this evolving production. The song is done. It's the transition of the song to a performance that Carl was to lead. (As an engineer, I capture the performance for mass distribution.) So over the phone I think you heard Carl singing a "working vocal" (i.e., a vocal track used as a guide, not necessarily the final vocal) with BG's in development. There may be 3 or 4 or 10 modifying iterations of any section before a harmonic resolve is reached. Many songs evolved this way, especially back in the Friends' and Vegatables' days of vocal tracking, I remember. As more tracks became available, due to the advancement of technology, Brian experimented with the added slots into which he could add harmonies. But that was a long time ago...   

However, in those days we used tape a little differently than today. We erased and reused. So each these iterations or stepping stones is at the expense of the last version. It is erased and the new version recorded in the same physical place on the tape. One in a while a ruff mix is made. It could be used for rehearsing a part, evaluation, inspiration. I think you heard one of those cassette mixes.      

~swd

[Stephen W. Desper]

If you think Blondie's vocal is a mistake, it is not his to make, it's the producer's.  When I hear Sail-On, Sailor I don't hear a mistake, a bad take, or a take over of the vocal. I hear Carl's take through Blondie, and I also hear Blondie's take.

Thank you, Stephen. Just to be clear, I was replying to Dr. Lenny's assertion that Carl giving the SOS vocal to Blondie was a mistake. I don't think Carl's selection of Blondie to be the lead vocalist was a mistake at all. Quite the contrary. I think Blondie added a lot of soul and feeling to the song with his vocal. And I agree with you that Carl's production was great. Hearing the instrumental track to SOS on the "Hawthorne" CD made me appreciate the track even more.

Thanks for taking the time, Mr. Desper.  Have your "Recording The Beach Boys" book and still looking forward to your update someday!

COMMENT:  No problem. Actually, I missread your statement, so I am in complete agreement with you. ~swd

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Seems to me that we've simply grown accustomed to hearing VDP's version of Sail On Sailor's creation. So, he gets wind that Warners is refusing to release Holland as-is, so he digs up his cassette and makes some calls. However much time Brian and the others had spent previously working on the song is unknown to him, but due to his prodding (if that's the right word) it is now THE priority. So, the fabled "Brian producing over the phone" was for the final vocal tracking and instrumental sweetening (SOS guitar bit and so on). Seems pretty logical.

[Banana]

I agree.  Glad that this bit of lore has been unraveled somewhat.  I'm also glad to know that Brian had far more to do with the song's creation than we previously thought.  It was essentially his and Van Dyke's song...and it sounds like any additions by Rieley or anyone else were minor tweaks.  Either way...classic song.

[Jim V.]

COMMENT: 

Sunflower and Surf's Up were two albums recorded over many years. Both have parts recorded by Brian in the late sixties with some songs (like SOS) released on albums after the Home Studio era.  During this long period of several years, the creating process moved and flowed, as a river; continuous, but with turns; never stopping, but with moments of brilliance and wanting. Don't fall into the trap of thinking, as do so many fans, that each day has an event scheduled to unfold. Fans look at a series of historical events they know and try to string them together in an effort to form a complete picture that fits into someone else's idea of how things happened. That will only give a false impression. Brian does not wake up to an alarm clock, look at the calendar, call his office, report to a studio, make a record, accept an award and then retire for the night. Yes, the history books may say this-and-that happened and when, but its mostly a haphazard turn of events, greatly influenced by emotion and feeling. These are artists, tempered by their internal sensitivities and sensibilities of the moment.

So when you say, “I remember hearing that Brian had nothing to do with the actual recording of the song” are you saying that for three or four years Brian did no recording? Or did some visitor venture into the studio one day and find everyone but Brian recording and then broadcasting that Brian wasn’t involved in the creative process?  How long is “the actual recording of the song?” Is it scheduled to happen on Monday – like we start at 10 AM  have the  verses done by lunch time and work on the chorus until supper?  ‘Cause it just doesn’t work that way.

Let’s be clear about Brian’s activity during the later part of 20/20 on to the beginning of Holland . . . a period that more or less spans the time he was depressed, ill, and falling victim to experimental drugs. He may have been all that, but he was still Brian Wilson, a creative song writer, producer, arranger and singer; who has his glorious moments of genius and inspiration. With a recording facility in his house, a studio under his bedroom, the support of family and friends, and the ability to call any musician he wanted at any time or date . . . of course he was involved in the recording process. He just was not in charge of it. That responsibility was turned over to brother Carl.

During this period of time, I might have as many as 35 songs on the tape shelf in one stage of production or another. Sail-On, Sailor was one of those songs in the slow process of becoming available to the public as a Beach Boy creation. Some songs were collected to become 20/20, others Sunflower, etc. Some never made it and remain unfinished. SOS never quite seemed to get the final nod for release until very late.

Like all the songs of this era, Brian had his moments of involvement.  Just who do you think is playing the piano part in SOS?  That piano part is what holds the entire song together. It is the hook upon which all other parts hang. Brian’s piano is what leads the song from the first downbeat. Add drums and bass and that is pretty much it. With an organ harmonic pad and guitar riffs, you’ve got the track. So yes, he was very involved in the tracking of SOS. Then we have the real stuff of the song, the vocals. Do you not hear Brian in the OOOs and Ahhh’s? Isn’t the signature Brian harmonic arrangement the very fabric of the oral overlays? Does all this vocal collaboration really sound like it was manufactured over the telephone?

How many songs that have ever been written express some form of psychic pain, either from love gone wrong, the loss of love, or a soul seeking love?  This is the stuff of songwriting. Masterfully crafted and expressed ever so pointedly by Parks in SOS. His lyrics border on onomatopoeia poetry and sound words.

What a contrast!  The words of SOS; so insightful and contemplative. A microcosm of life. Yet the song itself is one of the greatest dance songs of the album. Huh?  A dance song?  Yes it is. Just get a little loose and move your body and feet to the rhythm. It’s a dance. I know – I’ve danced to it with Carl and Dennis in the studio. When they were laying vocals, no one could stand still. It’s a dance all right! The dance of life . . . Sail-On,  Sailor.

~swd

Wow. Thank you so much for that reply. It really does make sense that the song evolved over a long period of time. And it's great to hear that Brian played that classic piano part.

Your insight on Brian's work habits between the 20/20 period and Holland is invaluable. It really helps me to understand what he was doing during those years more than any biography or magazine article ever has. Now I have a few questions. Were there many songs of Brian's, beyond what we know like "Where Is She", that never made it to release, or was most of what he wrote basically accepted by the band? And was the band usually grateful to get any new material that they could from him, or would they get upset if the material he offered wasn't to their taste?

[Stephen W. Desper]

COMMENT:   Thank you for your kind insights and compliments. Here are answers to your questions

Now I have a few questions.

1. Were there many songs of Brian's, beyond what we know like "Where Is She", that never made it to release? Quite a few. These are songs, not productions. He once ventured into cartoon tracks. I don’t know what became of that. He is a song writer. He is writing good songs. Not all make it off the page.

2. Was most of what he wrote basically accepted by the band? Yes, I guess. I don’t speak for the band, I just record them. But the process is for Brian and the group to select choices from all his songs and theirs. Everyone agrees to work on any and all of these selected songs together. So many songs go by the wayside.

3. Was the band usually grateful to get any new material that they could from him? Very grateful and thankful – with respect.

4. Would they get upset if the material he offered wasn't to their taste? No. These are adults, not six boys. They could change their name to Beach Adults for my generation as we grow older. Or how ‘bout The Beach Seniors. No really. There was no animosity between Brian and the group. They only wanted him to get well.

~swd

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

So Brian not only played piano on SoS, he also was in the backup mix? I knew it!!!

Somebody owes me $25

[Billgoodman]

To be honest, there has been lots of discussion on SoS here and I don't think anybody ever suggested that Brian had much to do with it. Mr. Desper's posts are a revelation! At least to me. Thanks!

It also shows that the memory of someone who was really there can alter any historian's view of things (vice versa is also possible, memory is a weird thing). That makes historiography so fascinating to me. Same thing happened in the Armin Steiner thread. Common knowlegde, facts can be pushed away be a single photo (of a recording unit) or a single recording (of a work in progress-SoS). We may never know what really happened, and maybe we don't really have to. The trip down memory lane and archives is so rewarding.

That being said, and before I burst into tears, let's just say that A Cigarette Butt When You Throw It In The Water Goes Pff is the best unreleased rocklyric in history. Have a nice weekend!

[Jaco]

If you listen to the overall "sound" of the album, Sail-On, Sailor does "sound" different than the way the other songs are recorded. But the missing credit  was an oversight and so life goes on. [/size]

 ~swd

I found out it's also the only one with normal pitch (A=440 Hz). Maybe due to a different voltage in Holland (220V), or just different tapespeed, all the other tracks have a fraction of a lower pitch.


Back to today: Another thing that makes me wonder, when performed life, why has Brian changed the opening melody of the song?

[Autotune]

If you think Blondie's vocal is a mistake, it is not his to make, it's the producer's.  When I hear Sail-On, Sailor I don't hear a mistake, a bad take, or a take over of the vocal. I hear Carl's take through Blondie, and I also hear Blondie's take.

Thank you, Stephen. Just to be clear, I was replying to Dr. Lenny's assertion that Carl giving the SOS vocal to Blondie was a mistake. I don't think Carl's selection of Blondie to be the lead vocalist was a mistake at all. Quite the contrary. I think Blondie added a lot of soul and feeling to the song with his vocal.

I think it was a mistake giving the lead to Blondie in that a non-BB became forever associated with it. I know at the time him and Ricky were full time members (sort of) but c'mon!

It's the original, but sounds like a cover version. Not a popular thought around here, I understand.