Good Timin' ? :/

[c-man]

First hearing the song and all i thought it was a lovely ballad, tho a safe track, it sounds great! but then, listening over and over again to their entire catalog and going back to Good Timin'.. it just feels a bit forced and the verses are so.. a bit empty, just too short, nothing going on, like few words and all.. as much as nice it sounds, in the end there isn't much goinng on in that song.. I don't know, i really like it overall, but feels something is missin' i guess, prehaps some bridge/different or more sections, or stronger verses i guess.

It's a lovely, little, inoffensive ballad, with better vocal & production values than most (all?) of the tracks on their previous three albums.  But not a "blockbuster" in my opinion.

[Ziggy Stardust]

First hearing the song and all i thought it was a lovely ballad, tho a safe track, it sounds great! but then, listening over and over again to their entire catalog and going back to Good Timin'.. it just feels a bit forced and the verses are so.. a bit empty, just too short, nothing going on, like few words and all.. as much as nice it sounds, in the end there isn't much goinng on in that song.. I don't know, i really like it overall, but feels something is missin' i guess, prehaps some bridge/different or more sections, or stronger verses i guess.

It's a lovely, little, inoffensive ballad, with better vocal & production values than most (all?) of the tracks on their previous three albums.  But not a "blockbuster" in my opinion.

Or neither it is a "classic", but yeah i agree, i guess that's the feeling i was trying to describe.

[Autotune]

Main problem with its harmonies is that they don't sound lush enough. Perhaps not enough BBs on it.

[Mark Dillon]

First hearing the song and all i thought it was a lovely ballad, tho a safe track, it sounds great!
but then, listening over and over again to their entire catalog and going back to Good Timin'.. it just feels a bit forced and the verses are so.. a bit empty, just too short, nothing going on, like few words and all.. as much as nice it sounds, in the end there isn't much goinng on in that song..

I don't know, i really like it overall, but feels something is missin' i guess, prehaps some bridge/different or more sections, or stronger verses i guess.

As Guercio recounted to me, Brian could only come up  with a one-minute keyboard progression, and then announced he was done. It was far from a complete track. Guercio then had to dupe Brian's part and string together sections to construct something resembling a complete song. All in all, I think there is a harmonic purity to it, and I think its lyric simplicity is part of its charm.

[Ziggy Stardust]

First hearing the song and all i thought it was a lovely ballad, tho a safe track, it sounds great!
but then, listening over and over again to their entire catalog and going back to Good Timin'.. it just feels a bit forced and the verses are so.. a bit empty, just too short, nothing going on, like few words and all.. as much as nice it sounds, in the end there isn't much goinng on in that song..

I don't know, i really like it overall, but feels something is missin' i guess, prehaps some bridge/different or more sections, or stronger verses i guess.

As Guercio recounted to me, Brian could only come up  with a one-minute keyboard progression, and then announced he was done. It was far from a complete track. Guercio then had to dupe Brian's part and string together sections to construct something resembling a complete song. All in all, I think there is a harmonic purity to it, and I think its lyric simplicity is part of its charm.

Hm interesting, yeah prehaps if he gave it more time, would have been epic, but as it is on the record, it sounds like a simple nice little tune.

[c-man]

I think it was produced by Carl and with some overdubs produced by the Bruce-ster. It's great.

The "Good Timin'" production credit on "Tens Years of Harmony" was given to Bruce, Carl, and Guercio.  Based on the evidence we have, I'd say the basic track was produced by Guercio, most of the 1978 overdubs were produced by Bruce (including the background vocal arrangement, which Bruce says he wrote), and then Carl produced his own lead vocal.  Then Bruce did the mix.

OK, now that I've actually read Guercio's description of the session in Mr. Dillon's fantastic "Fifty Sides" book...I have to ammend the above to say that Carl and Guercio co-produced the basic track.  (can't find the "embarrased" smiley, or I would insert it here!)

[Jim V.]

First hearing the song and all i thought it was a lovely ballad, tho a safe track, it sounds great!
but then, listening over and over again to their entire catalog and going back to Good Timin'.. it just feels a bit forced and the verses are so.. a bit empty, just too short, nothing going on, like few words and all.. as much as nice it sounds, in the end there isn't much goinng on in that song..

I don't know, i really like it overall, but feels something is missin' i guess, prehaps some bridge/different or more sections, or stronger verses i guess.

As Guercio recounted to me, Brian could only come up  with a one-minute keyboard progression, and then announced he was done. It was far from a complete track. Guercio then had to dupe Brian's part and string together sections to construct something resembling a complete song. All in all, I think there is a harmonic purity to it, and I think its lyric simplicity is part of its charm.

Thanks for that info, Mr. Dillon.That's interesting that Brian announced that he was done after coming up with that one minute progression. To be honest, it's a beautiful progression and a great song, so that was more than enough. However, I wonder if Brian ever returned to the song. If he didn't I guess that would explain why it wasn't on 15 Big Ones, Love You, or MIU. And the fact that he "announced he was done" now makes it more clear why the group didn't put out a new album in early 1975. It seems that Brian's interest probably waned very quickly in those days.

However, it is interesting that that Guercio had to duplicate Brian's part. I guess there's no bridge to that song is there? That would probably explain why. Honestly, I love the song, because, just like "This Whole World" and "I Went To Sleep" it is short and sweet, and leaves you wanting even more. Which I think is the sign of a great song, because you don't want them to end. That approach has helped me with my songwriting, trying to pack as much creativity into two minutes as I can, rather than extending a song needlessly just for the sake of making it longer.

[Newguy562]

Am i the only one that is completely annoyed by the weird synthesizer sound in the beginning of the verse's :/ ?I love the chorus but that is holding me from enjoying the song..ughhhhh!
I might get bashed for this..but is there anyone else that hates it as well?

GT happened not to be one of my favorite BBs songs, it's not even in my Top-100 so all I can say about the subject is that I automatically skip it; play it only as the background music when I do the dishes & other monotonous home work.

let's just put it like this i don't even have it on my itunes or ipod...as crazy as it sounds i only have 145 beach boys songs on my itunes..how many do you have?

[Newguy562]

Am i the only one that is completely annoyed by the weird synthesizer sound in the beginning of the verse's :/ ?I love the chorus but that is holding me from enjoying the song..ughhhhh!
I might get bashed for this..but is there anyone else that hates it as well?

GT happened not to be one of my favorite BBs songs, it's not even in my Top-100 so all I can say about the subject is that I automatically skip it; play it only as the background music when I do the dishes & other monotonous home work.

let's just put it like this i don't even have it on my itunes or ipod...as crazy as it sounds i only have 145 beach boys songs on my itunes..how many do you have?

But nevertheless you heard all the BBs' official catalog, didn't you? You know, via youtube and something else. Or you didn't listen to some records yet? You don't have the rest because you download only your favorites, right? Or not? Anyway, it's good to know that you honestly stated that you have only 145 BBs songs.
 
I have 1311 tracks, not counting solo records by individual bandmates.

Omg how do you have so many songs? :O Like all of their catalog isn't over a thousand songs, is it? bootlegs? You're right I have mostly my favorites...i have all the songs in chronological order.. that's how it is with all the artist and bands on my itunes...and when i like a group/artist i try 2 get everything by them (rare,"unreleased",b-sides,outtakes) ...the artist that I have with the most songs is David Bowie...it's 220..but overall I have about 15,000 Songs on my itunes..
Some people call me a completist but after hearing you have 1300 i feel far from it lol

[adamghost]

Guercio's comment is interesting. The thing about being involved in the production is it's pretty common to have elements to the song you are shining up for the final mix that, if someone else takes it over, get lost or dumped.  To the listener, you often can't tell what it is, since you tend to react to what's there and not notice what isn't, and you don't notice it until and unless someone gives you something else to compare it to.   I personally like the L.A. production quite a bit, but people whose opinions I respect really hate it.  I don't think they're wrong, I just have never sat down and listened to it with their ears.

The current Beach Boys album is a great example.  I think it's really muddy and lacks top, but very few other people hear it.  If I play with it in ProTools and make an alternate mix, it's easier to see what I'm talking about, but you don't necessarily notice unless you compare it to something else.  You might instead think something "lacks air" or sounds too thin, if you get what I mean.

Anyhow, I'm curious what Guercio wanted in the mix that Bruce didn't put in.  Because though it's rich, the elements are pretty spartan.  Maybe there were other parts that were mixed out, or (more likely) a blending of the instruments that wasn't as good as it could have been.

[runnersdialzero]

An iffy mix, but so are dozens of other songs in the 70s. And 60s. And every other era.

Carl's falsetto on the first chorus makes my balls explode. A+ would listen again and all that shit.

[mtaber]

I remember seeing them in concert back in the day and freaking when Brian did the echo lead vocal...

[runnersdialzero]

I remember seeing them in concert back in the day and freaking when Brian did the echo lead vocal...

Really wish this was on the studio version. Does a really good soundboard version of a live take with that vocal even exist or circulate among fans?

[adamghost]

I wonder if the echo vocal wasn't one of the things that was left out...or perhaps something that Brian intended to put on but wasn't able to because he was hospitalized (seems I may have read that somewhere).

[Wirestone]

I wonder if the echo vocal wasn't one of the things that was left out...or perhaps something that Brian intended to put on but wasn't able to because he was hospitalized (seems I may have read that somewhere).

Brian does have a history of coming up with things like that onstage, though. (Witness his very similar answer vocal on "Isn't it Time" at a handful of shows this summer). And he did something similar on early live versions of "Your Imagination" -- adding some extra bits to the backing vocal. He has a weirdly spontaneous streak onstage sometimes ...

[Micha]

I also think the production and mixing of the song is pretty poor. They coulda made this better than what it is.

So do I think, and I didn't even realize it was a good song before hearing the acoustic version in the first set of the SMiLE tour. Now... wow!!!

[Newguy562]

Am i the only one that is completely annoyed by the weird synthesizer sound in the beginning of the verse's :/ ?I love the chorus but that is holding me from enjoying the song..ughhhhh!
I might get bashed for this..but is there anyone else that hates it as well?

GT happened not to be one of my favorite BBs songs, it's not even in my Top-100 so all I can say about the subject is that I automatically skip it; play it only as the background music when I do the dishes & other monotonous home work.

let's just put it like this i don't even have it on my itunes or ipod...as crazy as it sounds i only have 145 beach boys songs on my itunes..how many do you have?

But nevertheless you heard all the BBs' official catalog, didn't you? You know, via youtube and something else. Or you didn't listen to some records yet? You don't have the rest because you download only your favorites, right? Or not? Anyway, it's good to know that you honestly stated that you have only 145 BBs songs.
 
I have 1311 tracks, not counting solo records by individual bandmates.

Omg how do you have so many songs? :O Like all of their catalog isn't over a thousand songs, is it? bootlegs? You're right I have mostly my favorites...i have all the songs in chronological order.. that's how it is with all the artist and bands on my itunes...and when i like a group/artist i try 2 get everything by them (rare,"unreleased",b-sides,outtakes) ...the artist that I have with the most songs is David Bowie...it's 220..but overall I have about 15,000 Songs on my itunes..
Some people call me a completist but after hearing you have 1300 i feel far from it lol

I have 1311 tracks by The Beach Boys only because it's my most favorite musical band. In case we're talking about other artists - I listen to 30-seconds fragments of the songs & download only those that I liked.
 
Wow, you have 15,000 songs? That's a gigantic collection! As for me, I've got only nearly 6,000 songs. Not even a half of your music library.

I usually don't play the tracks in either chronological or alphabetical order, I like to shuffle them, it can be turn into very amusing and interesting sequencing.

You're right about saying that The BBs' catalog isn't over a thousand songs, so yes, I have many unreleased, bonus etc. tracks plus count the songs that have many or few v-ns, f.ex., H&V, You Still Believe In Me, also Adult Child album, some compilations (Sounds of Summer, Endless Harmony s/t,), Pet Sounds Sessions.

yes but it's because i have many artists/bands that i listen to..so it all stacks up to 15000 on my itunes.. so the beach boys are your favorite group?
i have to have the songs/albums in chronological order ..i won't even listen to it until it's in order..
you're lucky i don't have any unreleased beach boys songs so i'm missing out on alot :/..

[Stephen W. Desper]

Am i the only one that is completely annoyed by the weird synthesizer sound in the beginning of the verse's :/ ?I love the chorus but that is holding me from enjoying the song..ughhhhh!
I might get bashed for this..but is there anyone else that hates it as well?

COMMENT:

 
There is nothing good or bad, but thinking makes it so.  ~Shakespeare


Love it or hate it. What it is, is a Baldwin Solid Body Electric Harpsichord.  I know because I recorded it.

Good Timin' -- another song for which I got no engineering credit.  Lady Linda was another one. Almost all of Full Sail.  These songs were all worked on, tracking and vocals, at the house studio.

The Baldwin Electric Harpsichord was a favorite of Brian's and Carl's. Brian liked it because of the clear and distinct staccato sound it would make (demonstrated in the attached video). The acoustic harpsichord is very easy to record, but requires tuning all the time.  This electric version by Baldwin was designed for the recording studio. It is constructed from solid metal girders, so it is very ridged and stays in tune. There is no acoustic soundboard, only pickup coils to be directly fed to an amplifier/speaker or a direct box. The pickup coils are housed in that black 'S' shaped channel running over the strings from side to side. Actually each string has a split coil which enables a mixing of (treble/hard & bass/soft) sound properties. With a little ingenuity you can obtain a stereo output. Without an acoustic influence, the instrument could be placed directly next to drums or loud guitars without any leakage. I usually split the output between a speaker in the studio and direct fed to the console. It is an electric instrument, but can be made to have great acoustic sound by using a Lesley rotating speaker for reproduction with reverb, then stereo miking the result.

Knowing a little history of the Baldwin Electric Harpsichord may endear you to its sound.

Please watch a demo of the Baldwin Electric Harpsichord >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ybi2T75pzk

~swd

[Jim V.]

Good Timin' -- another song for which I got no engineering credit.  Lady Linda was another one. Almost all of Full Sail.  These songs were all worked on, tracking and vocals, at the house studio.

~swd

Hold up. Wait. Are you saying that all these things we worked on before the took the studio out of Brian's house? That would trace the genesis of those songs all the way back to at least 1972! As far as "Good Timin'", are you sure? Because as far as many have been able to figure out, it wasn't worked on in the studio until 1974. Perhaps you are thinking of "Good Time"? If not, that's quite another revelation. Anyways, do you have any stories to share on the genesis of "Good Timin'"? Why it was held back for so long?

[LostArt]

Wow, that is all jolly interesting! Thank you, Mr. Desper! And I like the Harpsichord, very unusual sound it has!

Yes.  Thank you, Mr. Desper,  Most interesting...all these years I thought it was some sort of synth making that sound in Good Timin'.  And thank you once again for sharing your knowledge and experiences with us here.

[lance]

...and Lady Lynda and Full Sail? My jaw just hit the floor.

[Aegir]

Lady Lynda definitely didn't come into the picture until Ron Altbach started playing with the band.

[Danimalist]

This track was released in the early years of my Beach Boys obsession and, after MIU, I must say I was really pleased, and absolutely thrilled when it (barely) made it onto Casey's Top 40. Nice harmonies, pretty Carl vocal and a good melody. It may not live up to '65-'67, but, for the era, this was a winner. Had the same feeling about "Goin' On" on the next LP. These were definitely highlights of what was largely an era full of lowlights.

[Stephen W. Desper]

Good Timin' -- another song for which I got no engineering credit.  Lady Linda was another one. Almost all of Full Sail.  These songs were all worked on, tracking and vocals, at the house studio.

~swd

Hold up. Wait. Are you saying that all these things we worked on before the took the studio out of Brian's house? That would trace the genesis of those songs all the way back to at least 1972! As far as "Good Timin'", are you sure? Because as far as many have been able to figure out, it wasn't worked on in the studio until 1974. Perhaps you are thinking of "Good Time"? If not, that's quite another revelation. Anyways, do you have any stories to share on the genesis of "Good Timin'"? Why it was held back for so long?

COMMENT:  If you are trying to establish a time-line, I AM NOT your man. I am really bad at dates. The reason I post on this website is to avail fans who are interested, to read about my perspective of events about which they are interested, before my memories fail me. That’s why I like to answer questions. It sparks my recollections. In your case, my perspective concerning these three songs may be of interest to you.

Here are my recollections of any events I still remember about these three songs. The following is what I remember after, what, 45 years(?) or so. I’ll leave it to you to take my memories and see how they fit into your time-line. I’m not making any claims – it’s getting harder to remember details.

Good Timin’ – I remember the piano especially. It seemed to be so nicely enhanced in the reverb chamber at the house when those few key notes are struck. I think work may have even been started on this (I mean rudimental work) before the house studio was built. But once the house studio was built and active, we did work on this piece . . . quite a bit of it.  But you should realize that it’s only a recording on tape. It can easily be re-done. It may well have been redone or parts replaced for LAL. But I hear many tracks as I remember they sounded when I recorded them. Even the drum machine sound is there behind the keyboard. Those may have remained or replaced. My memory isn’t that good. All those Ahhhhh’s in the foreground and Oooooo’s under them in the background are via Brian’s instruction. That’s Brian on those crooning high notes. Background vocals give you the full compliment of SIX Beach Boy’s at harmony. Note how forward in the mix they are and how solid the vocals sound. They come on like an explosion. I remember how insistent Carl was that the song have a “swing” feel to it and not fall into a “march” feeling. He would sway side-to-side to illustrate.  

Lady Linda – this is a more personal recollection. The first time I heard LL was by way of Alan playing his Martin acoustic and singing the song to me, to see what I might think of it as a candidate for a performance or recorded production. I could see that the song had a personal value to Alan, but he wrote songs for a living. This was one he wished to record. To help date it, as he played LL his two Irish Setters came in and around where Alan was sitting. I remember recording Alan and his guitar. We experimented with “answer voices” for “Lady Linda,” then the answer “Lady Linda.” Now it’s a guitar that answers. Introducing the song with Bach’s “Yesu, Joy of Man’s Desiring” was a later development. I think it was eventually worked out by Alan on the road. That was were he first played it for me . . . still fumbling over the Bach notes. I can see him working on that song in the dressing room at shows. He worked on it a lot. The rendition I remember was more of a folksong version. I believe he was just at the beginning of his vision for this song. In the final release, all the harmonies are there, what was once a saxophone is replaced with vocals, the drums come in at the same place. He was still working out the last verse when other songs seemed to take up the recording time. Probably all the tracking I did was eventually replaced or just started from new. What was released is certainly not a funky, folksy rendition. It now sounds over-produced to my ears. I thought the song sold better as a down-home, in-you-face, kind of presentation with Alan and his Martin front and center with some of the boys singing support lines. Nothing complex as it has now developed into. Alan should put out a second version, more folk-like, more to his style.  

Full Sail – I have listened to this song in it’s final LP version. It sure sounds like the lead I recall Carl laying down. All the inflections are there. I hear my gain riding on Carl’s lead. I may have had to reach as much as 15 dB to get a lead that you could hear as Carl sang a very dynamic presentation. I kept loosing the notes. You can’t overcome this problem with a machine. Good ‘ol manual gain riding was necessary – and effective. The BG’s, the ever presence-sounding tom and snare drum … it’s all there. A very quietly played drum track – like jazz drumming – was worked out. That’s a Fender Rhodes playing into a wa-wa-pedal at the first. I remember Carl wanted a dingy sound to set the stage for this song. We tried it. I thought it sounded to cliché; told Carl the effect would make it sound like a movie sound track. We needed a sound like the dingy or bell-on-a-mast type sound but with a twist. I had recalled seeing a device or musical instrument over at Paul Bever’s studio I thought might work. It lowered about four gongs into a trough of water to de-tune them. I think it was something he had made. So anyway, we took the bell, suspended it on a string and lowered it into a bucket of water. This lowered the ringing sound. Had to ride gain on it because the water would also shorten the ring time of the bell. To overcome that limitation we just recorded at 15 IPS and played back at 7.5 IPS to extend the ring and added some reverb. Within a few takes we had a bell sound that was off-beat enough not to be cliché, but still set the stage. Wild-tracked in and coupled with a few cymbal swipes using a brush, it seemed to work. You can see what I’m taking about by watching the percussionists at  [ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NwN3DC-r60 ].  Once again, all that they did with me could have been scraped and started over or replaced track by track. I don’t know. If they did replace tracks, they did an excellent job. You could “twist” the bell using a Harmonizer too. I prefer to do things naturally. I do not recall one vocal track (really deep back into the mix) that comes along at the end (adventure on the high seas – etc.) Who arranged the strings? Was it not Daryl Dragon? I don’t recall. I’m just trying to put this all together. Did we record them at A&M?  Did I even record the strings or were they added later. I can't be accurate.

Hope this helps. If I remember anything else I’ll post it. Sure wish Carl was here to answer your time-line. He was the best to get dates right. He had a memory for dates. Recording schedules, who recorded what on whch day.  Concert events, what songs and in which order were played at any past event. His memory was incredible.  

 ~swd

[Rocker]

Thanks for thos inside looks Stephen ! I totally agree about "Lady Lynda" being overproduced. Maybe Bruce (producing the L.A. Light Album) wanted it that way. Here's a piece with Ron Altbach, Mike Love and Al Jardine talking about the song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZJzsMcQ_xo&feature=related


I always loved the gongs-in-water sounds the most about the whole album. Not to say anything against the other songs, etc. but that sound - especially near the end of the song - is so very emotional and melancholy that it caught my ears since I first heard the song. It's great to know what actually made that sound.

It's very interesting to hear you talk about songs that I previously never connected with your work. If you are goin' to update your book I hope there will be a new chapter about those kind of songs.