SMiLE Boots - How did they evolve, and how many are there?

[The Heartical Don]

I got my first SMiLE boot sometime around 1986. It was a cassette dub of some SMiLE tracks put out by somebody somewhere, and I remember it had a lone harpsichord playing "Heroes and Villains" interspersed between EVERY SINGLE TRACK....which made it sound like Norman Bates could've compiled it. It was third or fourth generation and hissed like a MF'er. It was a 60 minute cassette and most of the second side was taken up with "Good Vibrations" sessions. I drew my own cover, made dubs for my friends and spread the word.

 

Yeah -

that was my gripe about a couple of a couple of SMiLE boots also. The compilers obviously thought they really contributed to the conceptual idea of the album by including a gazillion snippets of the Bicycle Rider theme, dispersed throughout the album. But these people were no artists by any means, and their 'work' in reality subtracted from the listening pleasure a great deal.

[Bicyclerider]

In terms of CD sound quality for most of the tracks, the best are IMO Archaeology (it's been edited/cut up to pieces though) and Heroes and Vibrations.  The Sea of Tunes Vol 16 and 17 are right behind, although some swear the best sounding boot is the 3 LP Vigotone set with the right turntable/cartridge set up.

One of these days I'm gonna track down the Vigotone Guy (pun intended) and ask him if he still has the tapes for the planned box set hidden away somewhere.

[sandmountainslim]

"Vigotone Guy",   "Odeon", "SOT" etc.    Its amazing how SMiLE became bigger than it's creators and took a life of it's own (draggin in dozens of people in the process).    It was damned determined to evolve and see the light of day!

[Andrew G. Doe]

However good it might be, it's not the real deal, just one person's idea of how they feel it should go. The conceit that any given fan knows better than Brian Wilson, even these days, is breathtaking in its sheer arrogance.

Which is Reason #2 why I despise BWPS (Reason #1 being trying to make a quick buck from the original 1966 SMiLE).

IMO, repeat IMO, I don't care if Brian Wilson - the Brian Wilson of 2004, which is crucial in the story - was sitting/lying on a couch and nodding approvingly (or dissenting) to Darian...

Damn - you were there ? 

[Robbie Mac]

However good it might be, it's not the real deal, just one person's idea of how they feel it should go. The conceit that any given fan knows better than Brian Wilson, even these days, is breathtaking in its sheer arrogance.

Which is Reason #2 why I despise BWPS (Reason #1 being trying to make a quick buck from the original 1966 SMiLE).

IMO, repeat IMO, I don't care if Brian Wilson - the Brian Wilson of 2004, which is crucial in the story - was sitting/lying on a couch and nodding approvingly (or dissenting) to Darian, BWPS was the byproduct of Darian Sahanaja, with the sequencing, edits, and production. To me, and this is not a knock at Darian, BWPS is the ultimate fan mix. Darian was just doing a job he was paid to do, and he did it quite well.

I Love BWPS. Does that make me a lesser person in your eyes?

[John Manning]

However good it might be, it's not the real deal, just one person's idea of how they feel it should go. The conceit that any given fan knows better than Brian Wilson, even these days, is breathtaking in its sheer arrogance.

Which is Reason #2 why I despise BWPS (Reason #1 being trying to make a quick buck from the original 1966 SMiLE).

IMO, repeat IMO, I don't care if Brian Wilson - the Brian Wilson of 2004, which is crucial in the story - was sitting/lying on a couch and nodding approvingly (or dissenting) to Darian, BWPS was the byproduct of Darian Sahanaja, with the sequencing, edits, and production. To me, and this is not a knock at Darian, BWPS is the ultimate fan mix. Darian was just doing a job he was paid to do, and he did it quite well.

I Love BWPS. Does that make me a lesser person in your eyes?

BWPS was more than an album, more than a concert… for long-term fans it was the culmination of a whole chunk of their lives to that moment.  Maybe you had to be there at the epi-centre (Royal Festival Hall!) for the shockwaves to hit hardest.

For me it's a determining point in my life, trivial as that might sound. Listening to the CD is more than just listening to the CD.






Oh sh*t now I've started something… 

[The Heartical Don]

However good it might be, it's not the real deal, just one person's idea of how they feel it should go. The conceit that any given fan knows better than Brian Wilson, even these days, is breathtaking in its sheer arrogance.

Which is Reason #2 why I despise BWPS (Reason #1 being trying to make a quick buck from the original 1966 SMiLE).

IMO, repeat IMO, I don't care if Brian Wilson - the Brian Wilson of 2004, which is crucial in the story - was sitting/lying on a couch and nodding approvingly (or dissenting) to Darian, BWPS was the byproduct of Darian Sahanaja, with the sequencing, edits, and production. To me, and this is not a knock at Darian, BWPS is the ultimate fan mix. Darian was just doing a job he was paid to do, and he did it quite well.

I Love BWPS. Does that make me a lesser person in your eyes?

BWPS was more than an album, more than a concert… for long-term fans it was the culmination of a whole chunk of their lives to that moment.  Maybe you had to be there at the epi-centre (Royal Festival Hall!) for the shockwaves to hit hardest.

For me it's a determining point in my life, trivial as that might sound. Listening to the CD is more than just listening to the CD.






Oh sh*t now I've started something… 

Agree in full, John -

who'd ever have thought that BW and his band would have the sheer pizazz to finish the thing (actually in a brief time), with expertise and taste, and the involvement of its original lyricist too? And first do the live gigs, and then the studio recording? I recall that when I first heard about the enterprise, I was wary: it's complex music, Brian's emotional relationship with it is difficult, they started off in a very prestigious concert hall; the number of possible pitfalls and roadblocks was potentially very high.

And then it proved to be an unequivocal triumph. I recall that I ran to the common PC room in the hotel where I stayed, having returned from the Travel Inn (where I had nice chats with Darian, and the Swedish Strings and Horns. I saw all the messages flying across the Atlantic, both on what was then the Blueboard and the Smileshop.

The stuff of legend. And the CD is wonderful.

[John Manning]

Agree in full, John -

who'd ever have thought that BW and his band would have the sheer pizazz to finish the thing (actually in a brief time), with expertise and taste, and the involvement of its original lyricist too? And first do the live gigs, and then the studio recording? I recall that when I first heard about the enterprise, I was wary: it's complex music, Brian's emotional relationship with it is difficult, they started off in a very prestigious concert hall; the number of possible pitfalls and roadblocks was potentially very high.

And then it proved to be an unequivocal triumph. I recall that I ran to the common PC room in the hotel where I stayed, having returned from the Travel Inn (where I had nice chats with Darian, and the Swedish Strings and Horns. I saw all the messages flying across the Atlantic, both on what was then the Blueboard and the Smileshop.

The stuff of legend. And the CD is wonderful.

Don, you mean we were in the same room at the same time and I didn't buy you a drink?  Ah, I'll make up for it some day!

To my mind it succeeded the way it did because they took away its dark edge and turned it into music for children, without changing a note. It was just a sheer expression of joy. And I'll drink to that…

[bgas]

*

[Cam Mott]

I'm not a big fan of BWPS. It is a great accomplishment in many ways but it just doesn't connect with me emotionally.

If it was good for Brian to do it then I'm glad for that but I'm also sort of bothered by a feeling that it was a dickish move by Brian to do it without the Beach Boys.

[buddhahat]

However good it might be, it's not the real deal, just one person's idea of how they feel it should go. The conceit that any given fan knows better than Brian Wilson, even these days, is breathtaking in its sheer arrogance.

Which is Reason #2 why I despise BWPS (Reason #1 being trying to make a quick buck from the original 1966 SMiLE).

IMO, repeat IMO, I don't care if Brian Wilson - the Brian Wilson of 2004, which is crucial in the story - was sitting/lying on a couch and nodding approvingly (or dissenting) to Darian, BWPS was the byproduct of Darian Sahanaja, with the sequencing, edits, and production. To me, and this is not a knock at Darian, BWPS is the ultimate fan mix. Darian was just doing a job he was paid to do, and he did it quite well.

I Love BWPS. Does that make me a lesser person in your eyes?

BWPS was more than an album, more than a concert… for long-term fans it was the culmination of a whole chunk of their lives to that moment.  Maybe you had to be there at the epi-centre (Royal Festival Hall!) for the shockwaves to hit hardest.

For me it's a determining point in my life, trivial as that might sound. Listening to the CD is more than just listening to the CD.

I'm right with you John. I was there at the second RFH concert and it started a whole obsession with Smile that was more intense than anything I'd been into ever. I practically had to force myself to listen to other music for the next three or four years. I just listened to BWPS or smile boots day in, day out. I started to worry about it!

The fact my introduction to Smile was largely through the RFH concert obviously makes me biased, but I view BWPS as a key part of Smile. I see it as the final ingredient, rather than the cynical Frankenstein re-hash that others perceive. However involved Brian was (and I think he contributed more than many give him credit for) he was involved and gave the whole thing his seal of approval and that's the best completed Smile we're ever going to get. Actually, for me, the disc 1 Smile from TSS is the best completed Smile as it takes the developments from 2004 and re-works them back into the original sessions. It has the whole 40 year spanning story there on one album. Stuff yer 'They should have used the back cover tracklist' arguments!

Of course this is just me. I understand those that prefer Smile pre BWPS and would rather not mix the two things. What I struggle with is people that somehow want Smile finished but not that way. If you want a finished Smile, BWPS or TSS disc 1 is the best you're going to get love it or hate it. I can't see any of them revisiting the material to tweak it any time soon. perhaps at a stretch they might try and create a stereo mix of TSS disc 1 one day and that could feasibly incorporate newly discovered Smile fragments (if there's anything left to find) but I won't be holding my breath.

There's a lovely Carl quote (help me out somebody) where he suggests that maybe one day some young guy is going to help Brian finish Smile - something like that. It's pretty prescient. And for me Darian's involvment with Brian and VDP is important and doesn't diminish BWPS. It needs a young superfan to give Brian the kick up the bum to get it finished - we all know he produced his best work with a focused collaborator and this was no exception. Let's not forget VDP's 04 lyrics too. Just a shame they couldn't feature somehow on the disc 1 reconstruction, but I'm not certain new BB vocals would have necessarily been a great idea.

[mikeddonn]

When I saw Brian and his band in 2002 and they performed some SMiLE tracks I had a feeling after performing Pet Sounds the next thing would be to perform all the 'completed' SMiLE tracks live.  The band were on such a roll and Brian had come a long way in such a short time.  An example:

Glasgow, 2002 a fan, Dino, (some of you will know him) was wearing a fire helmet before the show.  Melinda asked him to remove it as Brian would basically 'freak' out if he saw him wearing it when he came out.  2004, Smile show (Manchester) Brian playfully, during Mrs O' Leary's Cow, pretends he has burnt his hand on the fake flames in front of his keyboard whilst the Stockholm Horns and Strings are donning fire helmets to play the song!  A defining moment right there and one that to me seemed to suggest that Brian had finally overcome his demons regarding that music.  The standing ovations every night helped too!  And that is why BWPS live or in the studio was, and is monumental.  Also, as a standalone album it was,IMHO, head and shoulders above anything else when it was released and holds up against any artist's best work ever!

[buddhahat]

Glasgow, 2002 a fan, Dino, (some of you will know him) was wearing a fire helmet before the show.  Melinda asked him to remove it as Brian would basically 'freak' out if he saw him wearing it when he came out.  2004, Smile show (Manchester) Brian playfully, during Mrs O' Leary's Cow, pretends he has burnt his hand on the fake flames in front of his keyboard whilst the Stockholm Horns and Strings are donning fire helmets to play the song!

Great anecdote! Thanks for sharing.

[Fro]

BWPS also has several things in it that fit together perfectly that nobody got close to in the boots.

I would say the fan bootlegs and mixes probably influenced some things but there was definitely a lot of creative input from whoever was putting it together.

[buddhahat]

BWPS also has several things in it that fit together perfectly that nobody got close to in the boots.

I would say the fan bootlegs and mixes probably influenced some things but there was definitely a lot of creative input from whoever was putting it together.

Well we know the Worms chorus melody came from Brian. Whether it was vintage or not, it's a cool melody. My guess is it's vintage.

Better still, for me, was the new Look clarinet melody. I think there's a Darian quote in the Priore book claiming there was some headphone bleed on one of the Look sessions that gave them this melody. I was really hoping we'd hear that session on TSS. I'd love for Alan Boyd or Mark Linett to clarify the existence of this Look session.

[Les P]

However good it might be, it's not the real deal, just one person's idea of how they feel it should go. The conceit that any given fan knows better than Brian Wilson, even these days, is breathtaking in its sheer arrogance.

Which is Reason #2 why I despise BWPS (Reason #1 being trying to make a quick buck from the original 1966 SMiLE).

IMO, repeat IMO, I don't care if Brian Wilson - the Brian Wilson of 2004, which is crucial in the story - was sitting/lying on a couch and nodding approvingly (or dissenting) to Darian, BWPS was the byproduct of Darian Sahanaja, with the sequencing, edits, and production. To me, and this is not a knock at Darian, BWPS is the ultimate fan mix. Darian was just doing a job he was paid to do, and he did it quite well.

I Love BWPS. Does that make me a lesser person in your eyes?

BWPS was more than an album, more than a concert… for long-term fans it was the culmination of a whole chunk of their lives to that moment.  Maybe you had to be there at the epi-centre (Royal Festival Hall!) for the shockwaves to hit hardest.

For me it's a determining point in my life, trivial as that might sound. Listening to the CD is more than just listening to the CD.

Well said, John.  The premiere was one of the highlights of my life, enhanced by meeting so many good and grateful fans from around the world...including you and AGD and possibly some of you other posters here as well.  The love and excitement and emotion were thick in the hall...and it was exactly 10 years ago today!  Now it is easy to take for granted, for instance, "Roll Plymouth Rock," "In Blue Hawaii," "Song for Children,", but to hear melodies for the first time to what were instrumentals for decades, to hear "Cabinessence," just for one,  performed powerfully while Van Dyke Parks looked on from the audience, to have Brian perform "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" and not run off the stage as I feared at the time...there will never be another moment like that for a SMiLE fan.  Maybe you just had to be there.

[Les P]

If it was good for Brian to do it then I'm glad for that but I'm also sort of bothered by a feeling that it was a dickish move by Brian to do it without the Beach Boys.

Cam, if two of the three survivors of your group either criticized the lyrics for years (Love), or claimed that Smiley Smile was 1000 times better than the bunch of music bites that are Smile (Johnston)*, are those REALLY the people you would ask to help you finish it?  And no, I am not claiming that they killed it in the first place.  But I don't think it is at all dickish not to involve people who didn't and still don't think that highly of Brian and VDP's work to this day.

* the quote is from memory, but the sentiment has been the same for years.

[Mikie]

You didn't have to be there, Les.  I was in San Francisco in '04 and later on Berkeley in '05 for the Smile concerts. It was as you described.  Frank Holmes and Michael Vosse and Joel Selvin were there including many hardcore fans from Northern/Southern Cali and there were quite a few tears shed both of those evenings.  But I would have loved to have been in a position to watch Van Dyke's expressions throughout the concert!

[Andrew G. Doe]

People will have you believe that the 2nd night was better, that Brian finally got the monkey off his back, and I have no reason to doubt that... but I was at the FIRST NIGHT.

So.

There. 

[Tilt Araiza]

The real highlight of that night was Van Dyke Parks playing tambourine on Do It Again (I'm not kidding).

[Les P]

The real highlight of that night was Van Dyke Parks playing tambourine on Do It Again (I'm not kidding).

I felt kind of sorry for him...I thought maybe they could have done "Orange Crate Art" or something to acknowledge him a bit more...

[Sheriff John Stone]

I separate BWPS into two distinct entities, the live performance and the recording.

The live performance is creative, cohesive, and an excellent piece of work to present in a concert setting. Nothing wrong with resurrecting the 1966 SMiLE material for that purpose.

However, when you take the live configuration of BWPS - which was assembled and intended FOR A LIVE PRESENTATION per various band members, including Brian - and record it note for note, then proclaim SMiLE finished, and market it as such, well, you lose me, sorry. But, that's just me I guess. But, hey, I'm mellowing. I used to refer to it as a fraud. Now it appears to me as Darian Sahanaja's fan mix. Is that more positive?

I'm getting a deju vu feeling like I've been here before.

[sandmountainslim]

I separate BWPS into two distinct entities, the live performance and the recording.

The live performance is creative, cohesive, and an excellent piece of work to present in a concert setting. Nothing wrong with resurrecting the 1966 SMiLE material for that purpose.

However, when you take the live configuration of BWPS - which was assembled and intended FOR A LIVE PRESENTATION per various band members, including Brian - and record it note for note, then proclaim SMiLE finished, and market it as such, well, you lose me, sorry. But, that's just me I guess. But, hey, I'm mellowing. I used to refer to it as a fraud. Now it appears to me as Darian Sahanaja's fan mix. Is that more positive?

I'm getting a deju vu feeling like I've been here before.

Should TSS also be considered a fan mix b Darian, Linett etc?   

[Sheriff John Stone]

I separate BWPS into two distinct entities, the live performance and the recording.

The live performance is creative, cohesive, and an excellent piece of work to present in a concert setting. Nothing wrong with resurrecting the 1966 SMiLE material for that purpose.

However, when you take the live configuration of BWPS - which was assembled and intended FOR A LIVE PRESENTATION per various band members, including Brian - and record it note for note, then proclaim SMiLE finished, and market it as such, well, you lose me, sorry. But, that's just me I guess. But, hey, I'm mellowing. I used to refer to it as a fraud. Now it appears to me as Darian Sahanaja's fan mix. Is that more positive?

I'm getting a deju vu feeling like I've been here before.

Should TSS also be considered a fan mix b Darian, Linett etc?   

Disc 1, yes. Discs 2-5, as presented, obviously not.

[Mikie]

I separate BWPS into two distinct entities, the live performance and the recording.

The live performance is creative, cohesive, and an excellent piece of work to present in a concert setting. Nothing wrong with resurrecting the 1966 SMiLE material for that purpose.

However, when you take the live configuration of BWPS - which was assembled and intended FOR A LIVE PRESENTATION per various band members, including Brian - and record it note for note, then proclaim SMiLE finished, and market it as such, well, you lose me, sorry. But, that's just me I guess. But, hey, I'm mellowing. I used to refer to it as a fraud. Now it appears to me as Darian Sahanaja's fan mix. Is that more positive?

I'm getting a deju vu feeling like I've been here before.

Should TSS also be considered a fan mix b Darian, Linett etc?   

TSS was meddled with by Linett and Boyd, who had access to the masters and/or safety copies.  Just like the recently released box set MIC.  And supposedly approved by Brian, much to the chagrin of some hardcore fans. I would say that the 1988 Linett mix was more of a fan mix than TSS.