I Will Never Look At Led Zeppelin The Same After This :'[

[Chocolate Shake Man]

It was really common, though.  You can't blame them for doing what others were doing to get famous.

FOR INSTANCE, Brian writing "Surfin' USA".  I don't know how you give that a pass but get on Led Zeppelin.  It's the exact same thing.

The difference is that Sweet Little Sixteen went to #2 in the charts five years earlier. It was a reference that most people would get and understand. It was made overt. Take another medium - film. In film, when Tarantino takes a bunch of shots from, say, Chinese cinema, he does it so overtly that he is not hiding what he is doing. In fact, part of his whole point is that images can be borrowed, re-used, etc. But what I see LZ doing differently is taking music that most people hadn't heard of because, let's face it, it was culturally specific (ie. black people sang it and didn't care if it jived with mainstream white culture) and made it culturally palatable (sell-able to a mainstream, mostly white, audience), made a ton of money off it, leaving the original culturally marginalized artists where they found them - still marginalized. At least Tarantino did things like cast Pam Grier, and bringing awareness to blacksploitation cinema. But it takes things like academic papers and the Howard Stern show decades later to actually call attention to this earlier music.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

oops

[Newguy562]

but hey different strokes for different folks.

Yep, that's the most mature thing to do re the Gallagher comments;take a balanced approach.  He needs a good punch in the mouth for dissing the BB's and a good pat on the back for straight shooting about Radiohead  

I agree with the punch in the mouth comment but a pat on the back for dissing radiohead?
you don't like radiohead?

Well, I don't hate them per se, although the Bends nearly gave me the bends (I had to come up for air, pronto) - KidA, Hail, Limbs etc, I find myself drifting off.

Ok Computer is, err, ok - a reasonable listen (Karma Police is nifty and I do like that line about "the Government" in No suprises ("They don't speak for us")) but my reaction is not unlike that I have to Supergrass - OK at the time, but I don't take away a lot, or think about them "later".  Hence, I'm a tad surprised about the fanaticism RH generate - but, that's art (and maybe I'll feel differently in the future)

yes you might when i first gave them a listen i was like wtf does everybody see in them? but it's the progression they get better with every album they put out..it's usually the other way around..the make music that drifts you off like pink floyd does...i can recommend some of their best songs so you can see what i mean if you'd like me to.

[Newguy562]

but hey different strokes for different folks.

Yep, that's the most mature thing to do re the Gallagher comments;take a balanced approach.  He needs a good punch in the mouth for dissing the BB's and a good pat on the back for straight shooting about Radiohead 

I agree with the punch in the mouth comment but a pat on the back for dissing radiohead?
you don't like radiohead?

Well, I don't hate them per se, although the Bends nearly gave me the bends (I had to come up for air, pronto) - KidA, Hail, Limbs etc, I find myself drifting off.

Ok Computer is, err, ok - a reasonable listen (Karma Police is nifty and I do like that line about "the Government" in No suprises ("They don't speak for us")) but my reaction is not unlike that I have to Supergrass - OK at the time, but I don't take away a lot, or think about them "later".  Hence, I'm a tad surprised about the fanaticism RH attract - but, that's art (and maybe I'll feel differently in the future)

My problem with Radiohead is they take themselves too seriously.  Boring music by a bunch of nerds who think they're important or different than the rest of us.  At least Oasis had swagger but it was ridiculous.  They just wanted to fight, they didn't want to teach us anything. 

They are important :] they are the greatest band of our generation. their songs arent boring they are meaningful, soothing and beautiful. :] The melodies that thom yorke comes up are lovely but not every one loves them as much as i do.

[Newguy562]

HAHAHAHA!! So they stole a song by another artist. Big Whoop. I wonder if Howard Stern has ever heard the album Houses of the Holy. Newguy, don't be upset. Regardless of what people tell you, music is copied a lot.

house of the holy is their best album in my opinion . i was just shocked because i love led zeppelin and something i would always use against other people when they compared them to the who i would say at least led has all original music :[ now i can't say that anymore ugh

[Chocolate Shake Man]

They are important :] they are the greatest band of our generation. their songs arent boring they are meaningful, soothing and beautiful. :] The melodies that thom yorke comes up are lovely but not every one loves them as much as i do.

No. In fact, I think they are grossly mediocre and are mostly considered good at the critical level because they take themselves so seriously and critics typically can't tell the difference. I did like The Bends and OK Computer though even at that time felt there were better bands coming out of England. I think that Kid A was a very predictable move and really fed into the pretensiousness of their fan base. When I first heard it, I was taken by it and within a month thought that it may have been the most cowardly album release I had ever heard. After that I didn't have much time for them but unfortunately I was in university then so they were difficult to avoid. But, then again, so were Dave Matthews Band, so you can see how serious those folks were about their music...

[Newguy562]

They are important :] they are the greatest band of our generation. their songs arent boring they are meaningful, soothing and beautiful. :] The melodies that thom yorke comes up are lovely but not every one loves them as much as i do.

No. In fact, I think they are grossly mediocre and are mostly considered good at the critical level because they take themselves so seriously and critics typically can't tell the difference. I did like The Bends and OK Computer though even at that time felt there were better bands coming out of England. I think that Kid A was a very predictable move and really fed into the pretensiousness of their fan base. When I first heard it, I was taken by it and within a month thought that it may have been the most cowardly album release I had ever heard. After that I didn't have much time for them but unfortunately I was in university then so they were difficult to avoid. But, then again, so were Dave Matthews Band, so you can see how serious those folks were about their music...

cowardly? wow :/ i think it was a courageous thing to ..after you have an extremely successful album take a lot of time off to work on the next album and not release even 1 single/video or anything and release it with a completely different sound. Kid A is a masterpiece if you don't like it then maybe it's just not your taste,there's nothing wrong but please don't downplay it because you don't like it. :[

[Chocolate Shake Man]

cowardly? wow :/ i think it was a courageous thing to ..after you have an extremely successful album take a lot of time off to work on the next album and not release even 1 single/video or anything and release it with a completely different sound. Kid A is a masterpiece if you don't like it then maybe it's just not your taste,there's nothing wrong but please don't downplay it because you don't like it. :[

Except that part of the reason why I don't like it is because it is so cowardly. The not releasing a single thing was part of a very concentrated marketing campaign (the marketing campaign for Kid A was enormous, much more than for your average album) that worked to purposefully create a kind of mystique around the album. But moreover, like I said, Radiohead completely played into their brand on that album, as the arty weird group who continually had to top themselves in experimentation. And, of course, it all worked for them - the album was a first week #1, and a big commercial success. Had they had any courage (which they didn't, not at that time at least) they would have done something similar to what a much more courageous and musically adventurous band from that time (Mansun) ended up doing - namely after their big arty release, put out something poppy and acoustic. Naturally, that album went to #12 - the price you pay for genuine courage.

[Newguy562]

cowardly? wow :/ i think it was a courageous thing to ..after you have an extremely successful album take a lot of time off to work on the next album and not release even 1 single/video or anything and release it with a completely different sound. Kid A is a masterpiece if you don't like it then maybe it's just not your taste,there's nothing wrong but please don't downplay it because you don't like it. :[

Except that part of the reason why I don't like it is because it is so cowardly. Thenot releasing a single thing was part of a very concentrated marketing campaign (the marketing campaign for Kid A was enormous, much more than for your average album) that worked to purposefully create a kind of mystique around the album. But moreover, like I said, Radiohead completely played into their brand on that album, as the arty weird group who continually had to top themselves in experimentation. And, of course, it all worked for them - the album was a first week #1, and a big commercial success. Had they had any courage (which they didn't, not at that time at least) they would have done something similar to what a much more courageous and musically adventurous band from that time (Mansun) ended up doing - namely after their big arty release, put out something poppy and acoustic. Naturally, that album went to #12.

They made a smart move don't you think? :] smile had a mystique about it then they released it 40 years later ..they are both masterpieces in their own way. can you please listen to this and give me your honest opinion?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJkeVkYq8Es

[Chocolate Shake Man]

They made a smart move don't you think? :] smile had a mystique about it then they released it 40 years later ..they are both masterpieces in their own way.

Smile indeed did have a mystique but it wasn't a calculated, shrewd, business opportunity that gave it that mystique.

can you please listen to this and give me your honest opinion?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJkeVkYq8Es

I told you, though, that I heard that album and, in fact, I own it. I don't really know where it is now and I don't really care either. I pulled it out a few years ago to put the first song (Everything In Its Right Place) on my iPod because I like that one. Everything else (including Optimistic) is, in my opinion, heartless and cold mediocre middle of the road music.

[Newguy562]

They made a smart move don't you think? :] smile had a mystique about it then they released it 40 years later ..they are both masterpieces in their own way.

Smile indeed did have a mystique but it wasn't a calculated, shrewd, business opportunity that gave it that mystique.

can you please listen to this and give me your honest opinion?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJkeVkYq8Es

I told you, though, that I heard that album and, in fact, I own it. I don't really know where it is now and I don't really care either. I pulled it out a few years ago to put the first song (Everything In Its Right Place) on my iPod because I like that one. Everything else (including Optimistic) is, in my opinion, heartless and cold medicore middle of the road music.

they mystque that kid a gained wasnt planned at all. :]
wow optimistic is beautiful :] i love the tribal chant feel in the beginning and end of the song...it might sound cold and heartless sometimes but they are robots what do you expect? lol

[Chocolate Shake Man]

they mystque that kid a gained wasnt planned at all. :]

Not putting out a single wasn't planned? The listening parties (one of which I attended) weren't strategies? In an article titled "Control Freaks" from that time, it was noted that Radiohead was "staking out new marketing territory to boost publicity for its new album, Kid A." The article concludes that the mystery set up by the band was indeed a helpful strategy and that because it was "one of the most successful marketing launches of an album" that year, Radiohead should "should consider a sideline in marketing." The article stated all this in flattering terms, incidentally. It was a very strong, significant marketing campaign. They weren't taking any chances.

wow optimistic is beautiful :] i love the tribal chant feel in the beginning and end of the song...it might sound cold and heartless sometimes but they are robots what do you expect? lol

We definitely agree about the robots thing!

[SMiLE Brian]

they mystque that kid a gained wasnt planned at all. :]

Not putting out a single wasn't planned? The listening parties (one of which I attended) weren't strategies? In an article titled "Control Freaks" from that time, it was noted that Radiohead was "staking out new marketing territory to boost publicity for its new album, Kid A." The article concludes that the mystery set up by the band was indeed a helpful strategy and that because it was "one of the most successful marketing launches of an album" that year, Radiohead should "should consider a sideline in marketing." The article stated all this in flattering terms, incidentally. It was a very strong, significant marketing campaign. They weren't taking any chances.

wow optimistic is beautiful :] i love the tribal chant feel in the beginning and end of the song...it might sound cold and heartless sometimes but they are robots what do you expect? lol

We definitely agree about the robots thing!

How was the listening party for the album?

[Chocolate Shake Man]

they mystque that kid a gained wasnt planned at all. :]

Not putting out a single wasn't planned? The listening parties (one of which I attended) weren't strategies? In an article titled "Control Freaks" from that time, it was noted that Radiohead was "staking out new marketing territory to boost publicity for its new album, Kid A." The article concludes that the mystery set up by the band was indeed a helpful strategy and that because it was "one of the most successful marketing launches of an album" that year, Radiohead should "should consider a sideline in marketing." The article stated all this in flattering terms, incidentally. It was a very strong, significant marketing campaign. They weren't taking any chances.

wow optimistic is beautiful :] i love the tribal chant feel in the beginning and end of the song...it might sound cold and heartless sometimes but they are robots what do you expect? lol

We definitely agree about the robots thing!

How was the listening party for the album?

Pretty awesome, actually. All we had to do is give a non-perishable food item for the ticket and we got to listen to the album in a sort of IMAX theatre (did they have IMAX back then? It was at least a special theatre in a big movie theatre) while some kind of deep-sea underwater movie played on screen. Through a lottery done with ticket stub numbers, I ended up winning the first four Radiohead albums (of which I already had two anyway). At the time I thought it was fantastic.

[Newguy562]

they mystque that kid a gained wasnt planned at all. :]

Not putting out a single wasn't planned? The listening parties (one of which I attended) weren't strategies? In an article titled "Control Freaks" from that time, it was noted that Radiohead was "staking out new marketing territory to boost publicity for its new album, Kid A." The article concludes that the mystery set up by the band was indeed a helpful strategy and that because it was "one of the most successful marketing launches of an album" that year, Radiohead should "should consider a sideline in marketing." The article stated all this in flattering terms, incidentally. It was a very strong, significant marketing campaign. They weren't taking any chances.

wow optimistic is beautiful :] i love the tribal chant feel in the beginning and end of the song...it might sound cold and heartless sometimes but they are robots what do you expect? lol

We definitely agree about the robots thing!

How was the listening party for the album?

Pretty awesome, actually. All we had to do is give a non-perishable food item for the ticket and we got to listen to the album in a sort of IMAX theatre (did they have IMAX back then? It was at least a special theatre in a big movie theatre) while some kind of deep-sea underwater movie played on screen. Through a lottery done with ticket stub numbers, I ended up winning the first four Radiohead albums (of which I already had two anyway). At the time I thought it was fantastic.

what did you think of the kid a album when you were at the listening party?

[Chocolate Shake Man]

they mystque that kid a gained wasnt planned at all. :]

Not putting out a single wasn't planned? The listening parties (one of which I attended) weren't strategies? In an article titled "Control Freaks" from that time, it was noted that Radiohead was "staking out new marketing territory to boost publicity for its new album, Kid A." The article concludes that the mystery set up by the band was indeed a helpful strategy and that because it was "one of the most successful marketing launches of an album" that year, Radiohead should "should consider a sideline in marketing." The article stated all this in flattering terms, incidentally. It was a very strong, significant marketing campaign. They weren't taking any chances.

wow optimistic is beautiful :] i love the tribal chant feel in the beginning and end of the song...it might sound cold and heartless sometimes but they are robots what do you expect? lol

We definitely agree about the robots thing!

How was the listening party for the album?

Pretty awesome, actually. All we had to do is give a non-perishable food item for the ticket and we got to listen to the album in a sort of IMAX theatre (did they have IMAX back then? It was at least a special theatre in a big movie theatre) while some kind of deep-sea underwater movie played on screen. Through a lottery done with ticket stub numbers, I ended up winning the first four Radiohead albums (of which I already had two anyway). At the time I thought it was fantastic.

what did you think of the kid a album when you were at the listening party?

Like I said earlier, when I first heard it I was taken by it. By the time I received my free copy of Kid A that I had won at the party, I already hated it.

[Newguy562]

they mystque that kid a gained wasnt planned at all. :]

Not putting out a single wasn't planned? The listening parties (one of which I attended) weren't strategies? In an article titled "Control Freaks" from that time, it was noted that Radiohead was "staking out new marketing territory to boost publicity for its new album, Kid A." The article concludes that the mystery set up by the band was indeed a helpful strategy and that because it was "one of the most successful marketing launches of an album" that year, Radiohead should "should consider a sideline in marketing." The article stated all this in flattering terms, incidentally. It was a very strong, significant marketing campaign. They weren't taking any chances.

wow optimistic is beautiful :] i love the tribal chant feel in the beginning and end of the song...it might sound cold and heartless sometimes but they are robots what do you expect? lol

We definitely agree about the robots thing!

How was the listening party for the album?

Pretty awesome, actually. All we had to do is give a non-perishable food item for the ticket and we got to listen to the album in a sort of IMAX theatre (did they have IMAX back then? It was at least a special theatre in a big movie theatre) while some kind of deep-sea underwater movie played on screen. Through a lottery done with ticket stub numbers, I ended up winning the first four Radiohead albums (of which I already had two anyway). At the time I thought it was fantastic.

what did you think of the kid a album when you were at the listening party?

Like I said earlier, when I first heard it I was taken by it. By the time I received my free copy of Kid A that I had won at the party, I already hated it.

what other classic album do you dislike? i'm not a fan of sgt. pepper i do like a few songs on it but i always felt it wasnt one of their strongest albums i even think abbey road is much better than sgt. pepper. (i know i know it's an important record and it changed music forever blah blah blah) lol

[SMiLE Brian]

they mystque that kid a gained wasnt planned at all. :]

Not putting out a single wasn't planned? The listening parties (one of which I attended) weren't strategies? In an article titled "Control Freaks" from that time, it was noted that Radiohead was "staking out new marketing territory to boost publicity for its new album, Kid A." The article concludes that the mystery set up by the band was indeed a helpful strategy and that because it was "one of the most successful marketing launches of an album" that year, Radiohead should "should consider a sideline in marketing." The article stated all this in flattering terms, incidentally. It was a very strong, significant marketing campaign. They weren't taking any chances.

wow optimistic is beautiful :] i love the tribal chant feel in the beginning and end of the song...it might sound cold and heartless sometimes but they are robots what do you expect? lol

We definitely agree about the robots thing!

How was the listening party for the album?

Pretty awesome, actually. All we had to do is give a non-perishable food item for the ticket and we got to listen to the album in a sort of IMAX theatre (did they have IMAX back then? It was at least a special theatre in a big movie theatre) while some kind of deep-sea underwater movie played on screen. Through a lottery done with ticket stub numbers, I ended up winning the first four Radiohead albums (of which I already had two anyway). At the time I thought it was fantastic.

That is quite the listening experience, it would be interesting if the Beach Boys did something similar like a beach party or SMiLE style experience.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

what other classic album do you dislike? i'm not a fan of sgt. pepper i do like a few songs on it but i always felt it wasnt one of their strongest albums i even think abbey road is much better than sgt. pepper. (i know i know it's an important record and it changed music forever blah blah blah) lol

Oh dear -- is Kid A considered a classic? Makes me feel old. But I really feel in time, that album will fade from the public memory.

I can't say that I dislike any Beatles album, that's for sure. They've been my obsessions since I was around two. I love Sgt. Pepper but it isn't in my top 10 personal favourite albums and I would still put Revolver, The White Album, and Rubber Soul ahead of both it and Abbey Road. Nevertheless, I love all their albums.

I can't entirely recall everything that would be on a classic list but I can say that no album by Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, or U2 ever really appealed to me (aside from Piper At the Gates). And even albums that I like that might be considered classics, I end up liking some of their lesser-classics more. For instance, my favourite Stones album is Aftermath, which I prefer over Let it Bleed and Beggars. I prefer Satanic Majesties over Sticky Fingers. I prefer The Who Sell Out over Tommy, etc.

[Newguy562]

what other classic album do you dislike? i'm not a fan of sgt. pepper i do like a few songs on it but i always felt it wasnt one of their strongest albums i even think abbey road is much better than sgt. pepper. (i know i know it's an important record and it changed music forever blah blah blah) lol

Oh dear -- is Kid A considered a classic? Makes me feel old. But I really feel in time, that album will fade from the public memory.

I can't say that I dislike any Beatles album, that's for sure. They've been my obsessions since I was around two. I love Sgt. Pepper but it isn't in my top 10 personal favourite albums and I would still put Revolver, The White Album, and Rubber Soul ahead of both it and Abbey Road. Nevertheless, I love all their albums.

I can't entirely recall everything that would be on a classic list but I can say that no album by Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, or U2 ever really appealed to me (aside from Piper At the Gates). And even albums that I like that might be considered classics, I end up liking some of their lesser-classics more. For instance, my favourite Stones album is Aftermath, which I prefer over Let it Bleed and Beggars. I prefer Satanic Majesties over Sticky Fingers. I prefer The Who Sell Out over Tommy, etc.

at first i was like me and this guy must not have much of the same taste besdies the beach boys lol but the albums you picked as your favorites are up there with me 2..my favorite rolling stones album is between the buttons but i might be bias because my aunt gave me the viny of it and its the 1st album i ever bought by them ...my favorite beatles album is rubbber soul :]..i love every album by pink floyd my favorite is animals..as far as the who goes i love my generation but the who sell out is my favorite as wlel

[Ron]

They are important :] they are the greatest band of our generation. their songs arent boring they are meaningful, soothing and beautiful. :] The melodies that thom yorke comes up are lovely but not every one loves them as much as i do.

No. In fact, I think they are grossly mediocre and are mostly considered good at the critical level because they take themselves so seriously and critics typically can't tell the difference. I did like The Bends and OK Computer though even at that time felt there were better bands coming out of England. I think that Kid A was a very predictable move and really fed into the pretensiousness of their fan base. When I first heard it, I was taken by it and within a month thought that it may have been the most cowardly album release I had ever heard. After that I didn't have much time for them but unfortunately I was in university then so they were difficult to avoid. But, then again, so were Dave Matthews Band, so you can see how serious those folks were about their music...

Yes, this a million times.  I'd lump Dave Matthews in with that, and I'd also lump pink floyd in with that, sorry.   Pretentious, bullshit music that I can stand about 1 single about once every 5 years.  Any more radio play than that and it's incredibly annoying.

There's exceptions of course.  You could take any of the three bands and play two or three singles that are good songs, but all in all they are nowhere near as great as their fanbase makes them out to be.  I like "Creep".  I like "Fake Plastic Trees".  I like "Another Brick in the Wall" or "The Space Between" or whatever, but a band like CAKE has their sh*t together better than any of these three bands. 

[Ron]

They are important :] they are the greatest band of our generation. their songs arent boring they are meaningful, soothing and beautiful. :] The melodies that thom yorke comes up are lovely but not every one loves them as much as i do.

No. In fact, I think they are grossly mediocre and are mostly considered good at the critical level because they take themselves so seriously and critics typically can't tell the difference. I did like The Bends and OK Computer though even at that time felt there were better bands coming out of England. I think that Kid A was a very predictable move and really fed into the pretensiousness of their fan base. When I first heard it, I was taken by it and within a month thought that it may have been the most cowardly album release I had ever heard. After that I didn't have much time for them but unfortunately I was in university then so they were difficult to avoid. But, then again, so were Dave Matthews Band, so you can see how serious those folks were about their music...

cowardly? wow :/ i think it was a courageous thing to ..after you have an extremely successful album take a lot of time off to work on the next album and not release even 1 single/video or anything and release it with a completely different sound. Kid A is a masterpiece if you don't like it then maybe it's just not your taste,there's nothing wrong but please don't downplay it because you don't like it. :[

Kid A was around the time they started proclaiming they didn't want to make music that 'sounds good' anymore.  You fell for that???

[Ron]

cowardly? wow :/ i think it was a courageous thing to ..after you have an extremely successful album take a lot of time off to work on the next album and not release even 1 single/video or anything and release it with a completely different sound. Kid A is a masterpiece if you don't like it then maybe it's just not your taste,there's nothing wrong but please don't downplay it because you don't like it. :[

Except that part of the reason why I don't like it is because it is so cowardly. The not releasing a single thing was part of a very concentrated marketing campaign (the marketing campaign for Kid A was enormous, much more than for your average album) that worked to purposefully create a kind of mystique around the album. But moreover, like I said, Radiohead completely played into their brand on that album, as the arty weird group who continually had to top themselves in experimentation. And, of course, it all worked for them - the album was a first week #1, and a big commercial success. Had they had any courage (which they didn't, not at that time at least) they would have done something similar to what a much more courageous and musically adventurous band from that time (Mansun) ended up doing - namely after their big arty release, put out something poppy and acoustic. Naturally, that album went to #12 - the price you pay for genuine courage.

Preach it brother.  Or Liz Phair, putting out a pop album after years of being underground, complete with curse words in unexpected places they accidentally played at Wal Mart until they found out what she was saying.

[cablegeddon]

I want Plant and Page to go to jail for this.

[guitarfool2002]

Watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmdQ0jc6rQg

And this is the thread:
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,11125.0.html


I just did that for the interesting coincidence, not to suggest anything. But damn, they are similar...It reminded me of the author playing the Led Zeppelin clips next to the original records on Stern's show.

PS: I heard a lot of these Zep things in the past few years, the author is familiar around my area and does interviews. But that Stairway one still blows my mind.

If they would have credited the original artists and writers, it would be a *totally* different matter.