The Stephen Desper Thread
Stephen W. Desper:
Quote
Mr Desper,
My apologies.
brother john
P.S. So, you think that some of the GV track in question is single track only, in parts? I shall have to do some more listening, I think...
Comment to Brother John --
Thank you for your cooperation. Sorry to come down so strong, but first it's one sentence and before you know it half the book is on the Interntet.
Whatever tape Carl bought to the studio for use in finishing Surf's Up for the album, listening under the microscope of a studio monitor found the tracks to be inconsistent in level and full of dropouts. Some parts of the tape had folds or creases along the vertical causing tracking problems. Further, excessing compression of the dynamics for use in broadcasting caused the room background noise to modulate. Carl could not talk Brian into just resinging his part, so had to go with what he had on hand. I think Brian thought in the back of his mind that if he did not sing, Carl would drop the whole idea of reconstituting the Surf's Up project, but Carl was determined to get this song to the public -- even over Brian's sleeping body.
Can you be certain that what you hear on the GV box set issue is what Carl heard. There are many years -- even a few decades between the time Carl brought the tape to me and the time of the box set issue. Lots of things could have been fixed in digial magic land before the issue of the box set. And, Carl's standards of production are, I'm sure, somewhat more refined than yours at this time. What sonic and performance issues he had with the tracks are probably things you have yet to discover. If you had known Carl back then, you would not be questioning his motives now. ~swd
Cam Mott:
Stephen,
Monterey was in June 1967 but Mike and the other Boys didn't meet the Maharishi until December 1967 I believe; how long before meeting the Maharishi had Mike been so into TM ?
Have you considered writing a tome for posterity on just your experiences at that Monterey festival?
brother john:
Mr Desper,
I've listened again to the two versions of Surf's Up, and absorbed your comments, and in a compare and contrast kind of way have found a few intriguing things:
I quite accept your comments that the digital magic of subsequent years has played a part in knocking off the rough edges of Brian's solo performace/recording of the song, and that what we hear on the GV box was not what Carl heard in the studio. I believe I may be able to detect bits of Carl's performance on the completed version of the song, though may just be kidding myself...
What I notice is that on the solo performance the two vocal tracks seem to be dead centre of the stereo field, whereas on the released Surf's Up they are panned a little to the left and right, with a more consistent (or slightly louder track) to the right. Is Carl left and Brian right, or bits of both? Or is it not as simplistic as that? I think I also can hear extra reverb added to the left vocal at around 3:02 ( 'a children's song') for, I presume, emotional impact.
But also, I was amazed to hear, from around 2:36, (Surf's Up, mmmm, mmmm...), a sound that is not, I think, the beautifully fat Moog bass added by Carl, but what sounds a bit like a reverb tail, played back in reverse, of the lower keys of a piano, building to something of a crescendo, and then some low, fuzzy sounds like muted speach that appear at around 3:02. What am I hearing here?
And one final question: Is the piano in Brian's section the same as that heard on the box set? The sound is a little different, but the playing seems to be the same.
Many thanks for your time and wisdom,
John (brother)
Stephen W. Desper:
Comment to Brother John --
I quite accept your comments that the digital magic of subsequent years has played a part in knocking off the rough edges of Brian's solo performace/recording of the song, and that what we hear on the GV box was not what Carl heard in the studio. I believe I may be able to detect bits of Carl's performance on the completed version of the song, though may just be kidding myself... Well, at least you are open minded to the tricks one's own mind can play upon itself.
What I notice is that on the solo performance the two vocal tracks seem to be dead centre of the stereo field, whereas on the released Surf's Up they are panned a little to the left and right, with a more consistent (or slightly louder track) to the right. Is Carl left and Brian right, or bits of both? Or is it not as simplistic as that? It's more complicated that that. The dual mono tracks were pulled apart using studio tricks while at the same time some parts were replaced (words or phrases) or augmented. So it's Brian most of the time, but Carl jumping over or replacing his voice for emphasis or correction. The lateral dimension is the result of comb filtering and temporall displacement mixed in with plain 'ol ampliftude panning. I think I also can hear extra reverb added to the left vocal at around 3:02 ( 'a children's song') for, I presume, emotional impact. A Children's Song is an added track. Extra reverb added to tie into the next segment and to cover the sudden change in sound character and background noise levels at the splice. [/b]
But also, I was amazed to hear, from around 2:36, (Surf's Up, mmmm, mmmm...), a sound that is not, I think, the beautifully fat Moog bass added by Carl, (actually added by me) but what sounds a bit like a reverb tail, played back in reverse, of the lower keys of a piano, building to something of a crescendo, and then some low, fuzzy sounds like muted speach that appear at around 3:02. What am I hearing here? Below noise level adjacent track leakage from unused tracks.
And one final question: Is the piano in Brian's section the same as that heard on the box set? The sound is a little different, but the playing seems to be the same. Same piano recording but on Surf's Up release, it also went through modifications.
~swd
Ken.W:
Mr Desper, thank you so much for your comments to Brother John's posts. Your first-hand insight is very much appreciated by all of us.
Best wishes,
Ken.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page