What Else Did The Beatles "Borrow" From Smile?

[jimmy1949]

The Smile Sessions Box set cleared a lot of stuff up for me after years of bootlegs,articles.etc.While listening again to it earlier today I realized how much The mjddle section of "Day In The Life" resembles the "Fire" section if SMiLE.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Nevertheless, The Beatles borrowed exactly nothing from Smile for Pepper.

[Jason]

With all due respect...this topic's title (to be blunt) simply reeks of the pungent stench of a thread on the Hoffman forum, yet with a Beach Boys twist. All the time these kinds of topics come up I just see Beatles fans who are ashamed to like the Beach Boys and are trying to find ways to justify their fandom. Wouldn't it just be easier to listen to the Beatles and not tarnish your memories?  

Any relation between Smile and Sgt. Pepper is purely coincidental. The stated Beach Boys influence on Sgt. Pepper was Pet Sounds. It's been known for years. Even if Paul McCartney had heard anything Smile-related when he visited the United States in March of '67, Sgt. Pepper was pretty much finished. I HIGHLY doubt, even if he had heard some Smile bits, that Paul would run back to England and tell the other Beatles and George Martin to throw Sgt. Pepper away and start from scratch because "I heard some amazing stuff in California from Brian Wilson. It was more than just surf music. It was, like, out there, man. We have to step it up again, mates."

[Andrew G. Doe]

The Smile Sessions Box set cleared a lot of stuff up for me after years of bootlegs,articles.etc.While listening again to it earlier today I realized how much The mjddle section of "Day In The Life" resembles the "Fire" section if SMiLE.

The Beatles borrowed, stole, filched, nicked and acquired exactly nothing from Smile, for the excellent reason that they never heard more than the "GV" single and a late-in-the-day "Veggies" session. Need to brush up on your Dumb Angel 101.

[The Shift]

Could this whole "the Beatles nicked SMiLE" fallacy be the reason why VDP's profile is so muted in relation to the box set? I listened to a recent pre-box release interview with him and he was vehemently sticking to that story. If his contribution to the booklet was going to be based on that, it could be that the set's overseers decided to nix it.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Could this whole "the Beatles nicked SMiLE" fallacy be the reason why VDP's profile is so muted in relation to the box set? I listened to a recent pre-box release interview with him and he was vehemently sticking to that story. If his contribution to the booklet was going to be based on that, it could be that the set's overseers decided to nix it.

That wasn't the reason.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Here's what I think happened.

In 1967, SMiLE is released and the Beatles career is left in tatters.

A few years pass, and whilst working on a new sound board for the band, their friend Magic Alex inadvertently creates a portal in the space / time continuum, (the sound board sadly is a pile of crap)

The Beatles travel back to 1967 to scupper the album which destroyed them.

John Lennon is able to brainwash Mike Love, (using mind meld techniques learnt from the Maharishi himself) He programs Mike to criticise the lyrics to Cabinessence, which as we all know is the paramount reason SMiLE was abandoned.

Meanwhile George, dressed as Phil Spector, sits outside Brian's window making funny noises to freak him out. Brian's mental health quickly deteriorates.

Paul gets a job at Capitol Records, and using his plucky, backstabbing nature, climbs to the upper echelons of the company. He then steals millions of dollars of royalties from the Beach Boys, anonymously tipping off David Anderle as he does so.

Ringo just sits on the beach.

With the album in turmoil, the Beatles hot foot it to Wally Heider's mobile studio where they steal the master tapes for SMiLE.

They then fly to London and proceed to Abbey Road where, disguised as Bruce Johnston they give the tapes to their 1967 selves. With the deadline for their new album just weeks away, the 1967 Beatles record a pale facsimile of SMiLE. It's name, Srgnt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band.

It's the only feasible explanation.

[SMiLE Brian]

Here's what I think happened.

In 1967, SMiLE is released and the Beatles career is left in tatters.

A few years pass, and whilst working on a new sound board for the band, their friend Magic Alex inadvertently creates a portal in the space / time continuum, (the sound board sadly is a pile of crap)

The Beatles travel back to 1967 to scupper the album which destroyed them.

John Lennon is able to brainwash Mike Love, (using mind meld techniques learnt from the Maharishi himself) He programs Mike to criticise the lyrics to Cabinessence, which as we all know is the paramount reason SMiLE was abandoned.

Meanwhile George, dressed as Phil Spector, sits outside Brian's window making funny noises to freak him out. Brian's mental health quickly deteriorates.

Paul gets a job at Capitol Records, and using his plucky, backstabbing nature, climbs to the upper echelons of the company. He then steals millions of dollars of royalties from the Beach Boys, anonymously tipping off David Anderle as he does so.

Ringo just sits on the beach.

With the album in turmoil, the Beatles hot foot it to Wally Heider's mobile studio where they steal the master tapes for SMiLE.

They then fly to London and proceed to Abbey Road where, disguised as Bruce Johnston they give the tapes to their 1967 selves. With the deadline for their new album just weeks away, the 1967 Beatles record a pale facsimile of SMiLE. It's name, Srgnt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band.

It's the only feasible explanation.

So we are living in a dystopian future like "back to the future part 2"?

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Exactly.

In a strange twist to the tale, two time agents from the distant future spotted the anomaly and travelled back to put it right. Unfortunately they had a malfunction and got stuck in 1986. The two agents, lets just call them Mark and Alan, burrowed their way into BRI and set to work on getting SMiLE released. Due to their diligence, hard work and anal probes, we now have TSS.

[send me a picture and i'll tell you]

We've also got those animal noises in "Good Morning, Good Morning", which strike me as a bit "Barnyard".

[jimmy1949]

The Smile Sessions Box set cleared a lot of stuff up for me after years of bootlegs,articles.etc.While listening again to it earlier today I realized how much The mjddle section of "Day In The Life" resembles the "Fire" section if SMiLE.

The Beatles borrowed, stole, filched, nicked and acquired exactly nothing from Smile, for the excellent reason that they never heard more than the "GV" single and a late-in-the-day "Veggies" session. Need to brush up on your Dumb Angel 101.

Thank you.

[soniclovenoize]

We've also got those animal noises in "Good Morning, Good Morning", which strike me as a bit "Barnyard".

Or maybe it's the case that "great minds think alike"?

[LostArt]

We've also got those animal noises in "Good Morning, Good Morning", which strike me as a bit "Barnyard".

Or maybe it's the case that "great minds think alike"?

Brian had already released an album with animal noises (Banana and Louie at the end of Pet Sounds).

[guitarfool2002]

All of the examples listed in this thread, from animal noises to the orchestra, can be traced directly to one of the Beatles or those folks in the studio.

I think one of the reasons these rumors/theories continue is how convenient it is to link the Beatles and Brian through Derek Taylor, who was working for both of them at this time. It's easy to suggest Derek heard something in Los Angeles and proceeded to take his excitement and descriptions back with him to England where he'd tell the Beatles of all the marvelous sounds he was hearing. Or some have suggested Taylor taking physical dubs or acetates with him, but that theory is ripped to shreds by the fact that Brian wouldn't give out a dub of a song he was still working on to an outsider. Although didn't Jules say he received some dubs from Brian? Can't recall.

The only sonic similarity I can point to is a tape of McCartney working out keyboard parts for Penny Lane, then later doing the horn and woodwind overdubs which appeared on a Beatles boot. It was 45 years ago this month, and certain parts of that tape where they're messing with tape delays and such sound damn close to what Brian was doing in fall '66. Do I think there is a conspiracy? I think it was two artists thinking alike with some of the same influences, including one another.

And it's 100% correct that the Beatles were constantly listening to Pet Sounds while recording Pepper. Geoff Emerick says a turntable was requested to play albums in the control room, and Pet Sounds was in heavy rotation. You hear the Pet Sounds influence (especially WIBN) *all over* McCartney's keyboard and bass work on Penny Lane.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Small correction - DT was only working for Brian at that point: he'd stopped being Beatles PR and moved to LA to go freelance.

[guitarfool2002]

Small correction - DT was only working for Brian at that point: he'd stopped being Beatles PR and moved to LA to go freelance.

Exactly, I was just repeating what has been speculated about Derek Taylor being that link. Like many a conspiracy theory, the facts tend to get in the way.

One question I did have, maybe it was answered in another thread: Derek was working in Los Angeles in April '67, did he and Paul meet up or did Derek have anything at all to do with setting up the Brian-Paul-Papa John meeting at that time?

Again, if that was already addressed I can't remember. Just curious.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

We've also got those animal noises in "Good Morning, Good Morning", which strike me as a bit "Barnyard".

Or maybe it's the case that "great minds think alike"?

Brian had already released an album with animal noises (Banana and Louie at the end of Pet Sounds).

Exactly. I think the tag to Good Morning, Good Morning is one of the places where the influence of Pet Sounds is the most overt.

[guitarfool2002]

We've also got those animal noises in "Good Morning, Good Morning", which strike me as a bit "Barnyard".

Or maybe it's the case that "great minds think alike"?

Brian had already released an album with animal noises (Banana and Louie at the end of Pet Sounds).

Exactly. I think the tag to Good Morning, Good Morning is one of the places where the influence of Pet Sounds is the most overt.

That is a stretch and I don't think it can be substantiated that the influence came from Pet Sounds - Paul seemed to be far more interested in Pet Sounds than John, and John Lennon had the idea for the animal noises which he wrote down and presented after recording his vocals for the song. He had a the animals sequenced as he had envisioned one after the other being capable of devouring the one heard previously. Once he explained it and showed the list, they got the animal noise tapes from Abbey Road's library and began cutting them together with John in attendance. It seems to be a different concept to have a specific sequence of animal noises based on dominance in the wild versus recording two dogs barking.

If wrong I'll stand corrected.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Small correction - DT was only working for Brian at that point: he'd stopped being Beatles PR and moved to LA to go freelance.

Exactly, I was just repeating what has been speculated about Derek Taylor being that link. Like many a conspiracy theory, the facts tend to get in the way.

One question I did have, maybe it was answered in another thread: Derek was working in Los Angeles in April '67, did he and Paul meet up or did Derek have anything at all to do with setting up the Brian-Paul-Papa John meeting at that time?

Again, if that was already addressed I can't remember. Just curious.

Yes - Derek facilitated the meetings with Brian & John.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

We've also got those animal noises in "Good Morning, Good Morning", which strike me as a bit "Barnyard".

Or maybe it's the case that "great minds think alike"?

Brian had already released an album with animal noises (Banana and Louie at the end of Pet Sounds).

Exactly. I think the tag to Good Morning, Good Morning is one of the places where the influence of Pet Sounds is the most overt.

That is a stretch and I don't think it can be substantiated that the influence came from Pet Sounds - Paul seemed to be far more interested in Pet Sounds than John, and John Lennon had the idea for the animal noises which he wrote down and presented after recording his vocals for the song. He had a the animals sequenced as he had envisioned one after the other being capable of devouring the one heard previously. Once he explained it and showed the list, they got the animal noise tapes from Abbey Road's library and began cutting them together with John in attendance. It seems to be a different concept to have a specific sequence of animal noises based on dominance in the wild versus recording two dogs barking.

If wrong I'll stand corrected.

Except that dogs barking are actually prominent throughout that sequence. I don't think it is possible to find evidence for what I'm talking about. I'm not suggesting that John heard Pet Sounds (which, inevitably, he did) heard the dogs barking and thought, "Blimey, I'll use some of that." He might not have even thought about Pet Sounds at all. Rather, the animal noises at the end of a track (and, really, how much of THAT was happening on pop tunes pre-Pet Sounds) suggests perhaps more than anything on Pepper (maybe aside from Mr. Kite and She's Leaving Home) the kind of subconscious influence that Sounds was having on the album.

[Ron]

Clarence Frogman Henry already had the 'animal noises in the song' thing down pat anyways, what's the big deal?

[soniclovenoize]

Why is everyone overlooking the concept behind the GMGM animals, that each one was "eating" the previous?  Was that Brian's concept too?  Seems to me like two completely different set of ideas, and some people are sort of grasping for straws... 

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Why is everyone overlooking the concept behind the GMGM animals, that each one was "eating" the previous?  Was that Brian's concept too?  Seems to me like two completely different set of ideas, and some people are sort of grasping for straws... 

Except of course for the idea of inserting real animal sounds at the end of a track. In that case, they are entirely, 100% the same set of ideas.

[Dead Parrot]

IMHO, there's only one Beatles song that in any way sounds even slightly SMiLE-esque, and that's "You Know My Name (Look Up The Number)". And that's stretching it a bit.

[Ron]

IMHO, there's only one Beatles song that in any way sounds even slightly SMiLE-esque, and that's "You Know My Name (Look Up The Number)". And that's stretching it a bit.

I've always thought that one was the most similar too, but I think it just comes down to the repetition of theme that Brian embraced, and of course the modular way in which it was recorded.  I think that song (you know my name) was a result of the Beatles trying Modular recording, which would have been a direct influence from Brian, although everybody had started doing that after good vibrations.  Also You know my name was a minor song for the Beatles, so it's not like they ripped anybody off or anything, I'd view it as a compliment before I viewed it as a ripoff.