"I Was Made to Love Her" on Wild Honey and Carol Kaye's claims
Jon Stebbins:
Quote from: Ed Roach on December 04, 2011, 10:50:35 AM
Quote from: Jon Stebbins on December 04, 2011, 09:55:52 AM
THIS is EXACTLY how you nail a point on a message board. Nice to see someone understands without clouding it with..."yeah but"...and..."I can see both sides"...etc... She is trusted by many as an expert on history, and she's not interested in knowing the truth. Its a really damaging combination.
Well said, Jon. I certainly remember how exhaustively you researched "The Real Beach Boy", and also remember the anguish on your face when some new facts would arise after it was published. All the more reason why we're all looking forward to a new, expanded edition!
Thanks Man...you gave me the most help of anybody. But as you said, the longer we live, the more we learn that we didn't know before...and sometimes that includes finding out things that prove what we thought was true is wrong. Its an ever evolving process right? BTW...happy Dennis day to you, I know this day can be a tough one for you sometimes. And especially with the Larry thing thrown at our buddy too...I hope all is well with you. We gotta get together soon.
Awesoman:
Quote from: shelter on December 04, 2011, 04:15:14 AM
Quote from: Awesoman on December 04, 2011, 12:50:15 AM
Carol Kaye wants to believe she played bass on everyone's tracks? Fine. Her living in her fantasy land don't bother me none.
It wouldn't be a problem if everyone would know that Kaye is living in a fantasy world and shouldn't always be taken too seriously. But unfortionately there are writers and journalists who don't do their homework and write her claims down as if they are the facts, so that history gets distorted and some people don't get the credit they deserve.
Writers and journalists *not* doing their homework??? What a revelation. Don't you think we should direct the fault at them for not checking their facts?
Jon Stebbins:
Quote from: Awesoman on December 04, 2011, 11:11:56 AM
Writers and journalists *not* doing their homework??? What a revelation. Don't you think we should direct the fault at them for not checking their facts?
The problem is that sometimes the best sources are considered the people who were there, and by using their discographies or bios, or by interviewing them writers think they are fact checking. There are probably dozens of sources, books, websites, wikipedia, documentaries, cd liners that credit Hal Blaine as being the drummer on I Get Around and Don't Worry Baby...but how many sources are there that credit Dennis Wilson? Well, my new book is one, there might be one or two more...but its like a 25 to 1 ratio. And guess what, if you listen to the session tape for Don't Worry Baby (which I only got a chance to because I actually found the lost multii-track tape)..its obvious that Dennis is the drummer on that session, you can hear him being talked to by Chuck Britz and Brian as they set levels and work out the intro arrangement. He's there, Hal's not...So I'm right, i did my research...but I'm probably in the minority for the rest of my life as a journalist who declares Dennis played on those songs and not Hal. And often when i point it out I get people asking me why am i disrespecting Hal? Or why do I think I know more than David Leaf? etc... etc... Its not an easy thing. Sometimes its like threading a needle. People like Craig Slowinski are doing a major service to the Beach Boys legacy, but he'll undoubtedly get tons of sh*t for pointing out that Carol Kaye did not play bass on the released version of Good Vibrations. The Wrecking Crew are so deified that even fact checking can get you on the wrong side of people.
Mikie:
Quote from: Jon Stebbins on December 04, 2011, 01:48:18 PM
People like Craig Slowinski are doing a major service to the Beach Boys legacy, but he'll undoubtedly get tons of sh*t for pointing out that Carol Kaye did not play bass on the released version of Good Vibrations.
He sure will! And I'll be the first in line to give him sh*t about it if he does!
Forget Marie unfortunately has some real issues with Carol. You'd think a member of her own family did her a major unjustice, or that someone committed a serious felony on her. Marie has posted disparaging remarks about Carol multiple times in this public forum, airing out her grievances with Carol, milking it for all it's worth. It became boring reading after the first post. No skin off my butt! Some of us don't have a problem with Carol, and don't care much if she's off bass regarding her facts, whether it be intentional or otherwise. We'd prefer to look at the positive attributes of the woman and commend her for her achievements and talent regardless of her 'colored' personality. I'm one of those people who would take the time go to a book signing or seminar of hers, just like I'm going to make it to Brian's book signing this Tuesday. Same deal. I understand the 'Historian' perspective and the frustration in getting all the facts straight, and I'm not defending her for her supposed personal attacks, but she didn't piss me off, and I don't intend to take the low road and talk crap about her now like some of you guys jumping on the bandwagon.
Wirestone:
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If Beach Boys fans haven't learned by this point to separate gorgeous work from the flawed humans who created it, they're the ones living in a fantasy world.
My problem with that philosophy is that I had actual interaction with Carol in the real world. She played some mean bass but it's no excuse to be mean.
Of course not. But my point is that the Beach Boys saga is filled with, to put it charitably, damaged and unpleasant people. At a certain point you have to accept that everyone is who they are and take the work for what it is. I mean, Jim Gordon murdered his mother -- something far worse than anything Carol Kaye has ever done -- and yet the coda to Layla is still a transcendent piece of music.
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