"I Was Made to Love Her" on Wild Honey and Carol Kaye's claims
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Quote from: Mikie on December 04, 2011, 04:29:27 PM
Quote from: Jon Stebbins on December 04, 2011, 01:48:18 PM
People like Craig Slowinski are doing a major service to the Beach Boys legacy, but he'll undoubtedly get tons of sh*t for pointing out that Carol Kaye did not play bass on the released version of Good Vibrations.
He sure will! And I'll be the first in line to give him sh*t about it if he does!
Forget Marie unfortunately has some real issues with Carol. You'd think a member of her own family did her a major unjustice, or that someone committed a serious felony on her. Marie has posted disparaging remarks about Carol multiple times in this public forum, airing out her grievances with Carol, milking it for all it's worth. It became boring reading after the first post. No skin off my butt! Some of us don't have a problem with Carol, and don't care much if she's off bass regarding her facts, whether it be intentional or otherwise. We'd prefer to look at the positive attributes of the woman and commend her for her achievements and talent regardless of her 'colored' personality. I'm one of those people who would take the time go to a book signing or seminar of hers, just like I'm going to make it to Brian's book signing this Tuesday. Same deal. I understand the 'Historian' perspective and the frustration in getting all the facts straight, and I'm not defending her for her supposed personal attacks, but she didn't piss me off, and I don't intend to take the low road and talk crap about her now like some of you guys jumping on the bandwagon.
Mike, you have been reported to the moderator.
guitarfool2002:
Quote from: Wirestone on December 04, 2011, 04:34:52 PM
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If Beach Boys fans haven't learned by this point to separate gorgeous work from the flawed humans who created it, they're the ones living in a fantasy world.
My problem with that philosophy is that I had actual interaction with Carol in the real world. She played some mean bass but it's no excuse to be mean.
Of course not. But my point is that the Beach Boys saga is filled with, to put it charitably, damaged and unpleasant people. At a certain point you have to accept that everyone is who they are and take the work for what it is. I mean, Jim Gordon murdered his mother -- something far worse than anything Carol Kaye has ever done -- and yet the coda to Layla is still a transcendent piece of music.
You mention Jim Gordon...in his case many folks, and I do mean many as in 98%, have simply erased his name from the history of rock drumming, apart from things like Layla which are impossible to ignore, and anytime you see another Layla article or reissue, you'll see photos of Jim. You can't sweep the image away.
So Jim paid and still pays a price beyond the legal and criminal aspects for what he had done, and that price is he is generally not mentioned in the lineage of the best studio musicians and best rock drummers, period.
I'm an amateur at doing what I do, solely because my work doesn't allow me the time necessary to do all the calling, leg-work, and detective work on the level of the historians. But I'm passionate about what I do and I love looking things up related to studios, session players, and music I love, like the Beach Boys. But in the past 2 years, I have gotten into looking at Jim Gordon's career, and it is just a damn shame that he's not getting mentioned at least next to LA fixtures Hal Blaine and Earl Palmer, and he was Hal's protege.
Even among drummers - professional drummers I know and talk to - his body of work isn't near as well-known. That Nilsson song from Goodfellas "Jump Into The Fire", when the helicopter is chasing Henry Hill around the city - that is Jim Gordon, and it's an incredible part. The g*ddamned drum sample from Apache that helped launch rap music into the mainstream and was sampled a ton of times - Jim Gordon. Mason Williams, "Classical Gas" - Jim Gordon, a young Jim at that. How many folks know those were Gordon, how many drummers know that, yet they can name the type of sticks Hal Blaine played on Be My Baby (kidding, just kidding...).
I'm just saying, the history books are what they are, but what standards do we apply to who gets a fair shake in those books? I'd say Jim Gordon hasn't gotten his due, and the morality debate enters into it when we consider whether his actions in later years should affect our perception of his *body of work*, no matter what those actions are or were. There is no right answer, but I'd say in Jim Gordon's case it would be worth considering his work as a drummer and musician on a separate sheet and put it into the historical context it deserves, because he was absolutely one of the best drummers in LA and among the best ever.
Again there is no right or wrong answer, but when should the history outweigh the events of later years?
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By the way Mke, I have not "milked this for all it's worth." This is the first time I brought it up other than once before, perhaps. You must have problems of your own and a "sad case." as you your warped personal hero Carol would put it.
Why do I get the feeling that Carol herself is putting some of these people defending her up to it? It wouldn't surprise me. Funny how Mikie just up and attacks me out of nowhere, even though I posted a few posts back and he didn say a word before. Carol people are nuts. Big deal, she sent you some picks and an autograph, she's a nasty woman by several people's witness, not just mine.
You can report this to the moderator, too, if you wish. I don't care.
Jon Stebbins:
Quote from: Mikie on December 04, 2011, 04:29:27 PM
Quote from: Jon Stebbins on December 04, 2011, 01:48:18 PM
People like Craig Slowinski are doing a major service to the Beach Boys legacy, but he'll undoubtedly get tons of sh*t for pointing out that Carol Kaye did not play bass on the released version of Good Vibrations.
He sure will! And I'll be the first in line to give him sh*t about it if he does!
He already did Mikie...in the Smile box session notes. According to the research Craig did for Capitol/BRI she's not the bassist on the 1966 hit version of GVs. So fire away.
Mikie:
Guess I missed that part. Who was it, Jon, Ray Pohlman?
Damn it! After all these years of her saying she played on the released version and even playing her part of Good Vibrations on audio and video, she really didn't? Ooooohhhh, man, she's so deceiving! I think far less about Carol than I did before. I'm very disappointed in her now. ;D
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