Brian says Beach Boys reunion album sounds "mellow".

[Wirestone]

Howie, thanks. I don't know how or why the Foskett hate got started here,  but it's a new and unappealing thing.

I think, deep down, a lot of posters who have not followed BW or his scene intently for a number of years do not understand, at a fairly basic level, how dependent Brian is on good people around him. They think that if evil person of the hour (Melinda, Jeff, whoever) was out of the way, Brian would instantly jump up and crank out another "Love You."

The basic truth is this. Brian is a mentally ill older man with minimal life skills. He cannot function on his own. He is, for distressing periods of time, basically catatonic. If we like a Brian who performs, who records, who is engaged with the world, someone has to guide him.

[Fall Breaks]

Howie, thanks. I don't know how or why the Foskett hate got started here,  but it's a new and unappealing thing.

I think, deep down, a lot of posters who have not followed BW or his scene intently for a number of years do not understand, at a fairly basic level, how dependent Brian is on good people around him. They think that if evil person of the hour (Melinda, Jeff, whoever) was out of the way, Brian would instantly jump up and crank out another "Love You."

The basic truth is this. Brian is a mentally ill older man with minimal life skills. He cannot function on his own. He is, for distressing periods of time, basically catatonic. If we like a Brian who performs, who records, who is engaged with the world, someone has to guide him.

Exactly. And that someone is and should of course be Jeff, on this project as well.

Doesn't mean I have to like his voice, though.

[Mr. Wilson]

Oh my..Wirestone is right and it hurts to know that and see it in print..GOD BLESS Brian Wilson

[SG7]

I remember there being a Smile show in 04  where Jeff didn't perform  because he was sick. He only introduced the band that night. Taylor took a lot of his vocals on that show and she did a great job. Not to bash on Jeff, but I just wanted to debunk the comment on "If three minutes before show time Jeff falls ill -- the show is off."

[puni puni]

"Uh. . . my friend Jeff, one of my bandmembers, Jeff (Foskett), is singing backgrounds."

"I wanna do rock n' roll. I'd like to do rock n' roll."

Producer Joe Thomas is heading up the 50th anniversary project for the band

this is going to be a disaster

[Howie Edelson]

2004 is a very, very long time ago.

[Wirestone]

I don't write a lot about this subject because -- well, it sucks and it's painful and sad. But Brian is a very fragmented and contradictory and damaged person. And just because someone is limited or mentally ill doesn't mean they're dumb or unaware. Brian surely knows his state, and it's sad to imagine how it must be to live with the knowledge that you are permanently dependent.

On the other hand, BW is clearly still excited and engaged by music, and still able to write, play and perform it. That's a great gift -- for him and us.

(Given his past history of brain damage, and the fact that Brian is now over the age of 65, it wouldn't surprise me if he is living with some form of dementia. It would make a certain amount of sense, given his changes over the past couple of years. Folks with that diagnosis are often encouraged to keep doing the things they're good at and love because it keeps them active and involved. Food for thought.)

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

It's settled: they'll be calling the album "I Wanna Jeff You Up"

If this is a BEACH BOYS album, if Jeff is indeed there, I'll doubt it will be very obvious.

[SMiLE Brian]

The truth behind Brian's illness is so unbelievably sad. We should all pray for Brian tonight.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

The truth behind Brian's illness is so unbelievably sad. We should all pray for Brian tonight.

It is very sad about Brian, but I'll leave the praying thanks. Not everyone believes in that stuff you know

[shelter]

I don't get why so many people go on about Ricky and Blondie. I know they were official members, I respect them as the great musicians that they were (and probably still are) and I wouldn't mind if they would be part of the reunion, but IMO they played a very minor role in the Beach Boys story. They were there for just two years, I think they didn't fit in very well (vocally or as songwriters) and what did they really contribute? They performed on two studio albums (so did several dozens of session musicians), they contributed four songs (none of which I care for, they don't even sound like Beach Boys songs) and Blondie sang lead on 'Sail On, Sailor' (but then again, if singing on one good Beach Boys song is enough to make you essential for a reunion, Jack Rieley should get a call too).

David should be there though. He's one of the originals, simple as that.

[SMiLE Brian]

The truth behind Brian's illness is so unbelievably sad. We should all pray for Brian tonight.

It is very sad about Brian, but I'll leave the praying thanks. Not everyone believes in that stuff you know

I'm not very religious either, but Brian's sad state moves me to pray for a fellow's man well being.

[b00ts]

Howie, thanks. I don't know how or why the Foskett hate got started here,  but it's a new and unappealing thing.

I think, deep down, a lot of posters who have not followed BW or his scene intently for a number of years do not understand, at a fairly basic level, how dependent Brian is on good people around him. They think that if evil person of the hour (Melinda, Jeff, whoever) was out of the way, Brian would instantly jump up and crank out another "Love You."

The basic truth is this. Brian is a mentally ill older man with minimal life skills. He cannot function on his own. He is, for distressing periods of time, basically catatonic. If we like a Brian who performs, who records, who is engaged with the world, someone has to guide him.

Agreed. I think Jeff is fairly suddenly getting the same ire that has been directed, rightly or wrongly, at people who have guided Brian through the years - Eugene Landy, Joe Thomas (!), Melinda, etc.

What is hilarious and mystifying to me is that people in this thread are up in arms about Jeff Foskett being involved with this. Regardless of whether his falsetto is too 'perfect,' Here is a guy who has been with Brian and the Beach Boys for longer than some of us have been on this Earth, and has helped see Brian through the biggest renaissance in his career since the mid 1960s. People are surprised and disappointed that Foskett is going to be involved, yet they don't seem to have much of a problem with Joe Thomas producing.

I agree with the posters up-thread who said that Thomas is an excellent vocal producer. However, as someone else said, fundamental production styles typically don't change much, and if Thomas is in charge of this project with veto power, we could end up with an overly slick, wrong-headed sounding Beach Boys reunion album. I don't really mind "slick" when it is at the level of BWPS or TLOS, but the production on Imagination was so tone deaf and dated at the time that it gives me tremendous pause about Thomas' involvement. Digital hiss was not something I had heard since the late 1980s when Imagination was released. I was surprised to hear it on a new release in 1998.

Then there is the information in "Catch a Wave" by Peter Ames Carlin about Thomas trying to rearrange "Caroline, No" as a 'Sexy, Sade-style thing.' This type of aesthetic is not what I want to hear on a new Beach Boys or Brian Wilson album and I hope that's not the direction it takes.  Apparently, that was the straw that broke the camel's back for Darian and his protestations resulted in Thomas' departure, and as a result, the excellent live performances we've enjoyed for nigh on a decade now.

Speaking of which.. why not involve Darian Shahanaja as a producer or co-producer? Out of everyone who could conceivably be asked to involve themselves with this record, Shahanaja seems to have the best knack for Brian's aesthetic sense.  He is also conceivably someone who Brian can feel comfortable around, which is the best case for using Joe Thomas. Of course, the talented mimic Sean O'Hagan will not be involved (I'm sure they haven't even discussed the possibility after O'Hagan telling tales out of school) and I would be very surprised if Andy Paley is involved.

The album should be "Produced by Brian Wilson" even if people like Thomas or Shahanaja are there co-produce and to guide Brian. It is probably the last Beach Boys album ever and for it not to be a BW production would be missing a huge opportunity for closure and for a career-capping triumph. Then again, if Brian relinquishes his job as producer, we can still hope for the best possible outcome.

Finally, one more bone to pick - what about Rick Rubin's production aesthetic makes any of you think he would be a good choice to produce a Brian Wilson album, let alone a Beach Boys album? He did some good work in the early 90s as mentioned upthread with the Beastie Boys, and he also has produced some good Cash and Neil Diamond albums, but his work with other bands like RHCP sounds like garbage. Even if his work with the Beach Boys was to sound as good and dynamic as his earlier recordings, he is a producer who goes for very dry, minimalist sounds. He is at his best when he is producing a four-piece rock band or a singer-songwriter who has sparse arrangements like those used on the Cash albums.

I have been reading Rubin's name come up for years now on this board and it mystifies me every time. There are producers like Nigel Godrich who are capable of producing dry, minimalist recordings like those of Rubin but also are capable of allowing artists to be themselves without asserting too much of their own "stamp" on the music. Even Jeff Lynne, who was also mentioned upthread and who leaves his indelible stamp on the records he produces, would be a better choice than Rubin. Incidentally, I love Lynne's production style but I am not sure how well it would fit The Beach Boys. Still, it would be a smarter and more aesthetically fitting choice than Mr. Rick f'n Rubin. (I am a fan of "Let it Shine," though.)

The best reason that I can think of for Rubin to ever be involved with Brian Wilson is so that he can share his love of vegetarian/vegan lethargy. Maybe Brian would steal enough of Rubin's burritos during the sessions that he would convert to a healthier lifestyle.

[b00ts]

The truth behind Brian's illness is so unbelievably sad. We should all pray for Brian tonight.

It is very sad about Brian, but I'll leave the praying thanks. Not everyone believes in that stuff you know

I'm not very religious either, but Brian's sad state moves me to pray for a fellow's man well being.

What if you pray to the wrong God, or worse, Satan? Be careful with the power of prayer. I'm not religious either and I'm pretty sure my prayer for a Beach Boys reunion album was answered by the Devil because including Joe Thomas as a producer really fits perfectly with the Dark Lord's sense of irony.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Howie, thanks. I don't know how or why the Foskett hate got started here,  but it's a new and unappealing thing.

I think, deep down, a lot of posters who have not followed BW or his scene intently for a number of years do not understand, at a fairly basic level, how dependent Brian is on good people around him. They think that if evil person of the hour (Melinda, Jeff, whoever) was out of the way, Brian would instantly jump up and crank out another "Love You."

The basic truth is this. Brian is a mentally ill older man with minimal life skills. He cannot function on his own. He is, for distressing periods of time, basically catatonic. If we like a Brian who performs, who records, who is engaged with the world, someone has to guide him.

You have proof to support this statement ? Granted, Brian doesn't run three marathons a week - in fact, he's one of the laziest people on God's earth: sees a chair, sits in it. I can dig that - but he's no zombie, as a friend of mine found out (and if he'll let me, I'll pass the tale on: it's a nice one). Brian is a 69-year-old man with neurological issues, most of which stemmed from the 1982-1991 period, and which are currently being controlled. He drives his own car. He cuts up his own food. He can button his own pants. Jeff, in the early touring days, was indeed a safety net but these days he's more of a comfort blanket. Brian trusts Jeff, and there's not many can say that. Brian's lazy, indolent and not hyper. But he's not catatonic, or even close: yeah, he has his bad days but back in the 2nd Landy era, pretty much every day was a bad day. Truth is, we see maybe 10% of Brian's life and that's the rigidly structured touring aspect. Also, remember this: Brian is the master of the put-on. I don't doubt that some of his zoning out is a defence mechanism, pure and simple. Hell, I do that, but as I'm not Brian Wilson, no-one notices. They just think I'm being rude.  

PS: Brian's memory - if you push the right buttons - can floor you. Dementia ? Don't think so.

[DonnyL]

It would be great to see David, Blondie and Ricky involved.  It would also be great if Billy Hinsche, Ed Carter & Bobby Figueroa were involved as well but that might not be possible.  I feel that Blondie's voice would partially fill a void left by Carl's absence.

[SMiLE Brian]

The truth behind Brian's illness is so unbelievably sad. We should all pray for Brian tonight.

It is very sad about Brian, but I'll leave the praying thanks. Not everyone believes in that stuff you know

I'm not very religious either, but Brian's sad state moves me to pray for a fellow's man well being.

What if you pray to the wrong God, or worse, Satan? Be careful with the power of prayer. I'm not religious either and I'm pretty sure my prayer for a Beach Boys reunion album was answered by the Devil because including Joe Thomas as a producer really fits perfectly with the Dark Lord's sense of irony.

I'm not praying to anybody, just hoping Brian stays happy and healthy as he ages.

[pixletwin]

Howie, thanks. I don't know how or why the Foskett hate got started here,  but it's a new and unappealing thing.

I think, deep down, a lot of posters who have not followed BW or his scene intently for a number of years do not understand, at a fairly basic level, how dependent Brian is on good people around him. They think that if evil person of the hour (Melinda, Jeff, whoever) was out of the way, Brian would instantly jump up and crank out another "Love You."

The basic truth is this. Brian is a mentally ill older man with minimal life skills. He cannot function on his own. He is, for distressing periods of time, basically catatonic. If we like a Brian who performs, who records, who is engaged with the world, someone has to guide him.

You have proof to support this statement ? Granted, Brian doesn't run three marathons a week - in fact, he's one of the laziest people on God's earth: sees a chair, sits in it. I can dig that - but he's no zombie, as a friend of mine found out (and if he'll let me, I'll pass the tale on: it's a nice one). Brian is a 69-year-old man with neurological issues, most of which stemmed from the 1982-1991 period, and which are currently being controlled. He drives his own car. He cuts up his own food. He can button his own pants. Jeff, in the early touring days, was indeed a safety net but these days he's more of a comfort blanket. Brian trusts Jeff, and there's not many can say that. Brian's lazy, indolent and not hyper. But he's not catatonic, or even close: yeah, he has his bad days but back in the 2nd Landy era, pretty much every day was a bad day. Truth is, we see maybe 10% of Brian's life and that's the rigidly structured touring aspect. Also, remember this: Brian is the master of the put-on. I don't doubt that some of his zoning out is a defence mechanism, pure and simple. Hell, I do that, but as I'm not Brian Wilson, no-one notices. They just think I'm being rude.  

PS: Brian's memory - if you push the right buttons - can floor you. Dementia ? Don't think so.

Can we just sticky AGD's assessment of Brian's mental state? I get tired of the assumptions people post here re: Brian's mental health.

[Wirestone]

Can we just sticky AGD's assessment of Brian's mental state? I get tired of the assumptions people post here re: Brian's mental health.

At least in my case it wasn't an assumption; more an informed extrapolation based on some off-the-record conversations from a couple of years ago. Combining those with Howie's statement led to my post. Obviously people around Brian can see his mood and states differently from person to person -- and AGD's point about the 10 percent is excellent. Those who know that 10 percent may not always be the best ones to speak about BW day-to-day. I'm glad it's not as dire as I feared.

As for dementia, it will probably take me first, then ...

Edit: It is also a very powerful human desire to have a happy, simple endings to tales of trouble. That desire has certainly distorted perceptions of Brian before. Life is complicated and not always how we'd like it.

[acedecade75]

I would guess The Beach Boys contributions to instruments being played on a reunion album would be minimal. How many instrumental credits did the band have on Still Cruisin' (new songs), Stars and Stripes,or Summer in Paradise? My bet would be afterall the tracks are in the can David gets invited for filming to give it a more legitimate feel. Just my thoughts.

Barry Williams might be a good addition as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vftmfk92zZY

 This is quite possibly the most pathetic thing I've ever seen, and I like The Brady Bunch!

[doc smiley]

before I'll have an opinion on Joe T producing this stuff, has anyone got a link to something recent that he's produced?

Imagination was a long time ago...

[tony p]

Howie, thanks. I don't know how or why the Foskett hate got started here,  but it's a new and unappealing thing.

I have been reading Rubin's name come up for years now on this board and it mystifies me every time. There are producers like Nigel Godrich who are capable of producing dry, minimalist recordings like those of Rubin but also are capable of allowing artists to be themselves without asserting too much of their own "stamp" on the music. Even Jeff Lynne, who was also mentioned upthread and who leaves his indelible stamp on the records he produces, would be a better choice than Rubin. Incidentally, I love Lynne's production style but I am not sure how well it would fit The Beach Boys. Still, it would be a smarter and more aesthetically fitting choice than Mr. Rick f'n Rubin. (I am a fan of "Let it Shine," though.)

The best reason that I can think of for Rubin to ever be involved with Brian Wilson is so that he can share his love of vegetarian/vegan lethargy. Maybe Brian would steal enough of Rubin's burritos during the sessions that he would convert to a healthier lifestyle.

Nigel Godrich would be a great choice

he did a wonderful job producing a couple of AIR albums - and their Beach Boys influence is all over their records

[SMiLE Brian]

I want Brian Wilson and Kevin Shields of MBV to make an album.

[Howie Edelson]

It's literally the longest shot in the world, but I think having Nick Lowe & Dave Edmunds produce a Beach Boys reunion LP would scratch most of our itches.

[D409]

Ok, so Rick Rubin may be a bit too "dry and minimalist" for some tastes on this board...how about someone like Roy Thomas Baker who is very good at getting huge vocal sounds ?