Smile Box set: Ghost melodies, clues, hints, and new mysteries

[runnersdialzero]

Imagine going through life being called "Van". Thank God he wasn't fat. I would've killed myself long ago.

[mammy blue]

Here's how the melody played out in my head when I first heard it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RpdU8Bep28

Like Josh, this isn't meant to say that's how it would've went, it's just to show there are plenty of ways the melody could've gone that would've worked over the music.

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!! Everybody watch this!!!

[JohnMill]

Here's how the melody played out in my head when I first heard it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RpdU8Bep28

Like Josh, this isn't meant to say that's how it would've went, it's just to show there are plenty of ways the melody could've gone that would've worked over the music.

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!! Everybody watch this!!!

Now again I wonder how you get the "West Indies" lyrics to fit.  Was that not supposed to be the second verse?

[mammy blue]

Here's how the melody played out in my head when I first heard it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RpdU8Bep28

Like Josh, this isn't meant to say that's how it would've went, it's just to show there are plenty of ways the melody could've gone that would've worked over the music.

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!! Everybody watch this!!!

Now again I wonder how you get the "West Indies" lyrics to fit.  Was that not supposed to be the second verse?

Sandwich Isles was the second verse. First was "Waving from the ocean liners beaded cheering indians behind theeeeem..." which also fits.

East or West Indies may have fit somewhere else, or maybe not. Either way you slice it, this melody kicks ass.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

someone called 'The Zodiac'

*cough*

[Wirestone]

Here's how the melody played out in my head when I first heard it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RpdU8Bep28

Like Josh, this isn't meant to say that's how it would've went, it's just to show there are plenty of ways the melody could've gone that would've worked over the music.

Very nice.

[The_Holy_Bee]

Holidays = Worms 1.0.

Suggested for a while, 'cos of the crossover choruses in BWPS, and I'm sure I could be hearing things, but on this link to the Holidays rehearsals -

Sounds to me like Brian is singing "Waving Indians behind us".

EDIT: Correct link - http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/2/20/800088//holidaysvocaldemonstration.mp3

Praise? Condemnation? Whatever it may be, you heard it here first.

[Mikie]

Cam, you're thanked in the book for the sessions box yet you still don't have it?!

Yeah, what's up with that??

[The_Holy_Bee]

Okay, I'm probably going nuts - and making myself hear what I want to -  but having just listened to the Holidays rehearsal through headphones, I now think I'm hearing this:

Waving Indians behind us as we
(incomprehensible) East or (incomprehensible) we

Yep, pretty solid evidence  ! And yes, I know "waving indians" isn't right. But, thinking again of Holidays as an early stab at Worms, as has been suggested, and bearing in mind the lyrics recalled by Frank Holmes that don't seem to have made the final cut, doesn't this verse make

Cheering from the ocean liners, beaded
Waving Indians behind us as we
Returned to the East or West Indies we
Always got them confused

Haven't tried this against the Holidays backing yet, mind. But keen to hear what people with keener ears than mine think listening to that rehearsal tape.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

But the part he's singing over is the "second chorus", as he states. So if he was singing Worms lyrics, wouldn't it be "rock rock roll..." if anything?

[The_Holy_Bee]

One more observation towards what I hope to be a wildly unpopular theory -

Connections (perhaps spurious): Crashing tympani on verse? Check. Vaguely Hawaiian sounding piece towards the end of the song? Check. Slowly winding down piano piece at what seems to be the conclusion of the track, only for a repetitive coda to start up? Check.

Conjecture (utterly spurious): A naval, seafaring feel to the track (borne out in OAH's lyrics) that also fits the original "Ocean liner/steamed upon" words, perhaps even more so than the DYLW music we know. Middle section the original version of "Bicycle Rider"? It's actually easy, and surprisingly satisfying, to fit those lyrics - or "Ribbon of Concrete, see what you've done, done, etc" - over the vibraphone (?) piece in the middle.

Way short of lyrics - based on how many are used on BWPS - but, if you're able to listen with an open mind, try listening to Holidays with this structure in mind:

Bicycle Rider/Verse 1-Roll Plymouth Rock/Bicycle Rider/Verse 2-Roll Plymouth Rock/Music Box fake ending/Wahala-lu-lay (to fade)

No doubt I'll be shouted down - and probably rightly! But an interesting exercise.

[The_Holy_Bee]

Thanks Bubba Ho Tep  - still waiting on box to arrive in NZ, so have only heard that mp3 that was linked to (without the "second chorus" bit), so this might a case of too many ideas, not enough information!

What I might suggest though is that depending on how you look at it, the vibraphone/possible-"Ribbon of Concrete" sections (parts 1 and 3 in my schema below) could be considered verses and the upbeat section a chorus, albeit one with some changing lyrics? Choruses with different words throughout the song weren't all that unusual even in '66, largely thanks to people like Dylan.

[Chris Brown]

Here's how the melody played out in my head when I first heard it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RpdU8Bep28

Like Josh, this isn't meant to say that's how it would've went, it's just to show there are plenty of ways the melody could've gone that would've worked over the music.

Awesome, makes a lot of sense - even reminds me a bit of "Little Pad" the way you sing "Hawaii" at the end.

[The_Holy_Bee]

And finally (I promise this time), the circumstantial evidence:

"That's not 'Worms'" - Al Jardine
Re-emergence of "Rock, rock, roll" in "OAH" in BWPS
(EDIT: originally had the dates wrong) Holidays recorded early September, then goes untouched. Worms tracked mid-October. Were the lyrics Holmes received from the unexpurgated original version? If the "East or West Indies" lyrics and others were at some point removed, this would explain why he recalls them while no other participants do so for Do You Like Worms, and why the song as we now know it doesn't actually seem to support that section melodically
The title: "Holidays"... Worms lyrics fit in with this thematically: "cheering Indians behind us", "returned to East or West Indies", Hawaiian motif.


And now, let the parade-raining commence.

[The Song Of The Grange]

Here's how the melody played out in my head when I first heard it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RpdU8Bep28

Like Josh, this isn't meant to say that's how it would've went, it's just to show there are plenty of ways the melody could've gone that would've worked over the music.

Very interesting. And the melody sounds related to what the plucked strings are playing in the second half of the "rock rock roll" section that comes right after.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

I think Wirestone is merely stating that we shouldn't jump to conclusions on this issue. One of the initial posts had the opinion that this was the 'definitve' melody - which is pure BS. We have no idea if this was the intended melody. Sure, there's a great chance this was the melody, but to call it 'definitve' is irrational.

We can only speculate - because until 2004, there was never a definitve recording of lead vocals on this track.

Apart from that example, though, I'm not sure anyone else is really jumping to conclusions. I've suggested that the evidence is fairly overwhelming and I stand by that. Nevertheless, if someone has a problem with someone else's statement then it should be taken up with the person who made that statement not other people. Remember that even the person who used the term "definitive" qualified it by saying "for me, anyway." Even when Wirestone was reminded of that crucial caveat, he chose to ignore it in order to make some irrelevant comments about what's wrong with our culture. So there's a lot of smoke being blown here, as far as I'm concerned.

Thanks for the support R&R

But "definitive" was the wrong choice of word for me to use.

So I retract it

Preferred, favourite, melody of choice.

Whatever it is, I love it.

[Billgoodman]

Can I weigh in and thank Josh for this again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYu12MpBqdU&feature=youtu.be

Totally works for me and it's a much better melody. Somebody should make a cover of DYLW this way. The 'new'-melody as a lead vocal and then when it switches to the BWPS-melody you could make a harmony with 4 voices.

[buddhahat]

Can I weigh in and thank Josh for this again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYu12MpBqdU&feature=youtu.be

Totally works for me and it's a much better melody. Somebody should make a cover of DYLW this way. The 'new'-melody as a lead vocal and then when it switches to the BWPS-melody you could make a harmony with 4 voices.

2nd that thanks, and to Bubblegum also for the other video. Listening to it sung like this , and reading some of the arguments for it, I'm slightly more convinced that it could have been be a feasible melody. I still think it would have been less effective than the BWPS one - it's pretty cluttered and awkward -  but it's fascinating to speculate on what might have been.

I'm reluctant to accept that this automatically usurps the BWPS melody for historical accuracy though. From all accounts Brian's recollection of the melody used in 2004 was instantaneous upon hearing the track. Sure, he may have misremembered, but it works perfectly, and the drone of it is very 66. Just imagine Mike Love lazily delivering that BWPS melody ....

[?]

2nd that thanks, and to Bubblegum also for the other video. Listening to it sung like this , and reading some of the arguments for it, I'm slightly more convinced that it could have been be a feasible melody. I still think it would have been less effective than the BWPS one - it's pretty cluttered and awkward -  but it's fascinating to speculate on what might have been.

I'm reluctant to accept that this automatically usurps the BWPS melody for historical accuracy though. From all accounts Brian's recollection of the melody used in 2004 was instantaneous upon hearing the track. Sure, he may have misremembered, but it works perfectly, and the drone of it is very 66. Just imagine Mike Love lazily delivering that BWPS melody ....

I agree with all of that.  I'm not sure that this melody is any indication of what he would have done with the finished vocal, and as it is I prefer what we got in 2004.  I'm quite impressed by what our members here were able to do with it though.

[Boiled Egg]

Correct link - http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/2/20/800088//holidaysvocaldemonstration.mp3

Praise? Condemnation? Whatever it may be, you heard it here first.

Praise, no diggety. Likewise Bubblegum -- excellent (and not at all unreasonable) leap into the unknown.

Now, Holy Bee -- where's that Holidays demo from? If it's the box set, I'm ready to be embarrassed.

[The_Holy_Bee]

I believe it is indeed. Thanks to runnersdialzero, who posted the link to that mp3 (and presumably put it together too) earlier in the thread. Anyone else hearing what I'm hearing? There's a much more concise summary of my theory over on the "Worms" thread on the Smile Sessions sub-forum.

[pixletwin]

Brian sings: "Once-UP-on-the-SAND-wich-isles-the-DES-o-da-dee". THAT fits OK. But that means you'd have THIS with the finished lyrics:

The issue there is that Brian trails off and we don't have the complete melody.

Except that we do have the complete melody. It's in the violins a few tracks later playing pizzicato.

Do you have the exact track/timing for this?

I think he means False Barnyard..... There's no pizzicato violins on Worms, right?!

Yes. It is disc three, track six "My only Sunshine: parts 1 & 2" at the 3:12 mark.

[The_Holy_Bee]

EDIT: Sorry, removing link for sheer awfulness. No offence taken from those who pointed it out! Hope this is okay, mods - no intention to disrupt the flow of the thread.

[donald]

Curious about how how chronology experts like AGD are piecing this together  now that all is exposed. 

[tygerbug]

Holy Bee, you are very wrong and should stop. What you just did makes no musical sense.