Disappointment with Surf's Up

[desmondo]

Given that we don't have a recording of the fully-arranged version with a Brian lead (which he could have easily done, given that he was in the studio when it was being recorded)

Yes, I agree, but there's one interesting thing with what people call the "Piano Demo" (track 9 of CD2 from the TSS 2CDs version): to me it's not really what we could call a demo or even a guide vocal track:

1) Brian's voice is doubled, he recorded his voice twice (and it's not ADT)
2) Brian sings really well on it, it's not the "humble Harv" tape type of singing see what I mean ?
3) Everything is well recorded, the piano sounds very well, there's reverb.


So what I mean is: at this point (12/15/66) maybe Brian planned to release it as is, or with further vocals or instrumental overdubs, but this could've been the core track of Surf's Up, implying that he would've sing the lead.

Yes definitely not a demo and the idea of an 'unplugged' SU amongst all that heavy orchestration is most appealing

PS love your mix by the way

[drbeachboy]

Hey JMZ, I guess it could come off as insulting for me to say it's stupid for someone to like your mix over Mark's. That's not what I really meant to say. I think someone disliking Mark's mix because it's not pieced together like their favorite fanmix is a little silly. If you read the rest of my earlier post I explained myself a little better.

With most albums I would agree that it might be silly, but not so with Smile. The boots and the fan mixes have been around too long. Smile has been a "roll your own" album for over 25 years.  I've different mixes of certain songs that I prefer over what is on Disc 1. Like I stated about Surf's Up, after hearing Carl sing it for 40 years, I cannot get used to hearing Brian sing Part 1. Though I do like the way he sings on the '67 demo. It's all in what you are used to; we humans are funny that way.

[mammy blue]

Hey JMZ, I guess it could come off as insulting for me to say it's stupid for someone to like your mix over Mark's. That's not what I really meant to say. I think someone disliking Mark's mix because it's not pieced together like their favorite fanmix is a little silly. If you read the rest of my earlier post I explained myself a little better.

With most albums I would agree that it might be silly, but not so with Smile. The boots and the fan mixes have been around too long. Smile has been a "roll your own" album for over 25 years.  I've different mixes of certain songs that I prefer over what is on Disc 1. Like I stated about Surf's Up, after hearing Carl sing it for 40 years, I cannot get used to hearing Brian sing Part 1. Though I do like the way he sings on the '67 demo. It's all in what you are used to; we humans are funny that way.

Won't that make the Surf's Up LP that much more special now, with the unique Carl vocal?

[JMZ]

And as Mark Linett humbly said himself: the official CD1 of TSS is "just" his take on SMiLE.

Not sure you can say its ML's version - it is the BW/BBs version - thinking about it where did he say it was just his take?

Yeah, you're right, he didn't say that in his own words, my mistake. 

But on the "Icon Fetch" (excellent) interview: http://www.iconfetch.com/great-music-interviews/2011-shows/418-mark-linett-beach-boys-smile-part-two-interview.html starting around 14'50" to 15'46" you know the (already famous) part where he says that Alan and him did their approved version "with some changes" it's not exactly like BWPS, but "if you feel the Mona Lisa looks better turned upside-down [...] now you cn roll your own".

[Austin]

Hey JMZ, I guess it could come off as insulting for me to say it's stupid for someone to like your mix over Mark's. That's not what I really meant to say. I think someone disliking Mark's mix because it's not pieced together like their favorite fanmix is a little silly. If you read the rest of my earlier post I explained myself a little better.

With most albums I would agree that it might be silly, but not so with Smile. The boots and the fan mixes have been around too long. Smile has been a "roll your own" album for over 25 years.  I've different mixes of certain songs that I prefer over what is on Disc 1. Like I stated about Surf's Up, after hearing Carl sing it for 40 years, I cannot get used to hearing Brian sing Part 1. Though I do like the way he sings on the '67 demo. It's all in what you are used to; we humans are funny that way.

I think the problem with a lot of TSS criticism is confusing a preference for a particular sequence for criticism of the sound quality and construction.

It is not silly to argue that you prefer JMZ's mix, or AlternateBrianWilson's mix, or Purple Chick's mix, because these are the ones you're used to, and Disc 1 isn't necessarily going to live up to well-ingrained memories. That's part of the fun, really. But lots of people are arguing that it doesn't sound good, period, and that is silly.

Whether you like Disc 1 or not, it is still respectfully, expertly mixed and edited, presented at a higher quality than any bootleg or fan mix. This is not disputable, and expressing an artistic preference for a fan mix does not have to come at Disc 1's expense.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

The new Surfs Up is very nice and all. You can never have too many versions.

However, if the1967 version was the one we'd had for years, and the '66 demo was the new discovery, then I'd imagine the excitement would be much greater. It is more fully realized, and the tempo changes are perfect.

I'm always happy for any new SMiLE though.

[drbeachboy]

Hey JMZ, I guess it could come off as insulting for me to say it's stupid for someone to like your mix over Mark's. That's not what I really meant to say. I think someone disliking Mark's mix because it's not pieced together like their favorite fanmix is a little silly. If you read the rest of my earlier post I explained myself a little better.

With most albums I would agree that it might be silly, but not so with Smile. The boots and the fan mixes have been around too long. Smile has been a "roll your own" album for over 25 years.  I've different mixes of certain songs that I prefer over what is on Disc 1. Like I stated about Surf's Up, after hearing Carl sing it for 40 years, I cannot get used to hearing Brian sing Part 1. Though I do like the way he sings on the '67 demo. It's all in what you are used to; we humans are funny that way.

I think the problem with a lot of TSS criticism is confusing a preference for a particular sequence for criticism of the sound quality and construction.

It is not silly to argue that you prefer JMZ's mix, or AlternateBrianWilson's mix, or Purple Chick's mix, because these are the ones you're used to, and Disc 1 isn't necessarily going to live up to well-ingrained memories. That's part of the fun, really. But lots of people are arguing that it doesn't sound good, period, and that is silly.

Whether you like Disc 1 or not, it is still respectfully, expertly mixed and edited, presented at a higher quality than any bootleg or fan mix. This is not disputable, and expressing an artistic preference for a fan mix does not have to come at Disc 1's expense.

I totally agree with you. Aegir though, was referring to ML's mixes, not it's fidelity. None of Mark's mixes are unlistenable. Most of my issues are with the endings of the songs. Using different pieces that I'm not used to hearing and stuff like that. Also, I think the mastering and fidelity are terrific of what I've heard, so far. No issues with that whatsoever. Though I'm sure some will think it too loud, not loud enough, too trebley, not enough treble, too bassy, not enough bass, etc. After tomorrow, I'm sure the Hoffman Board will run amuck with all of these criticisms.

[Austin]

After tomorrow, I'm sure the Hoffman Board will run amuck with all of these criticisms.

I'll be sure to stop by.

Yeah, and I'll just elaborate that I wasn't referring to anyone in particular, more just observing a general trend on the board. With regards to Aegir's post though, what I neglected to say is that criticism isn't always read the way it was intended. Just recently I accidentally misconstrued a preference for a fan mix as some kind of knock against Disc 1 as a whole, and wanted to make sure that wasn't the case.

[37!ws]

I remember dreaming some time ago that I heard the 1967 "Surf's Up" and thinking "Well, it's good, but nothing earth-shattering."

I've since heard it from start to finish, thanks to the YouTube posting....the only think I don't like about it is the random pops that apparently is from the iTunes download. (Yet another argument for CDs...) And it's done the way I think it should be: Brian by himself with his mid-60's voice. That's why my dream version of "Surf's Up" would be the 1966 piano demo but with the vocal harmonies joining in at the end. (Still gotta have the harmonies!) The fully-orchestratedness just takes away from the emotion.

One thing that really, really got me with this 1967 version: listen to how Brian performs on the word "tough." Wow.

Also, really love how Brian comes back to the chord-every-beat playing earlier than we're used to.

And something I just can't help but think...SOMEBODY had to know about this session. Brian was obviously not alone (unless he was talking to himself at the end). You would think that, given the importance of "Surf's Up" and how much fans love the song, that someone would have mentioned it..."Ya know, I seem to remember Brian recording it by himself later on..." I'm guessing Carl must have heard it, given how he sang "Canvass the town and brush the backdrop..." the same way Brian did in this demo, and whatever engineer was in the studio...and there were usually MULTIPLE people in the control room, right?

[Chris Brown]

And something I just can't help but think...SOMEBODY had to know about this session. Brian was obviously not alone (unless he was talking to himself at the end). You would think that, given the importance of "Surf's Up" and how much fans love the song, that someone would have mentioned it..."Ya know, I seem to remember Brian recording it by himself later on..." I'm guessing Carl must have heard it, given how he sang "Canvass the town and brush the backdrop..." the same way Brian did in this demo, and whatever engineer was in the studio...and there were usually MULTIPLE people in the control room, right?

That's the first thing I thought when I heard him sing that at the end of the second verse - it makes a lot more sense that Carl heard Brian sing it this way, and thus decided to sing that melody later.  That makes a lot more sense than them just coming up with it out of thin air.

[pixletwin]

I mentioned somewhere else that I think Carl's voice would have suited the B section (Dove nested towers etc..) much better than Brian's voice.

[Runaways]

whoa i disagree with that completely.  In fact, I don't think the song is suited to carl at all.  This is a brian song through and through. 

[Justin]

I was quite speechless upon hearing "Surf's Up 1967 (Solo Version)"....amazing!

[Micha]

Like I stated about Surf's Up, after hearing Carl sing it for 40 years, I cannot get used to hearing Brian sing Part 1.

Interestingly, even before having heard the 93 box set "demo", I could never get used to Carl singing that first part... So that's fine for me now.

I mentioned somewhere else that I think Carl's voice would have suited the B section (Dove nested towers etc..) much better than Brian's voice.

And so do I. Funny, ain't it?

And since I heard David Crosby sing the "Surf's Up mmmmhh..." line, I think Mike would have been perfect for that one.

[drbeachboy]

Like I stated about Surf's Up, after hearing Carl sing it for 40 years, I cannot get used to hearing Brian sing Part 1.

Interestingly, even before having heard the 93 box set "demo", I could never get used to Carl singing that first part... So that's fine for me now.

I mentioned somewhere else that I think Carl's voice would have suited the B section (Dove nested towers etc..) much better than Brian's voice.

And so do I. Funny, ain't it?

And since I heard David Crosby sing the "Surf's Up mmmmhh..." line, I think Mike would have been perfect for that one.

What do you mean "get used too"? For 22 years there was no other version available to listen to. Now, if you only started listening to both versions around '93 then I can see where you are coming from, but my 22 year head start had me completely taken by Carl's lead vocal.

[Dove Nested Towers]

I remember dreaming some time ago that I heard the 1967 "Surf's Up" and thinking "Well, it's good, but nothing earth-shattering."

I've since heard it from start to finish, thanks to the YouTube posting....the only think I don't like about it is the random pops that apparently is from the iTunes download. (Yet another argument for CDs...) And it's done the way I think it should be: Brian by himself with his mid-60's voice. That's why my dream version of "Surf's Up" would be the 1966 piano demo but with the vocal harmonies joining in at the end. (Still gotta have the harmonies!) The fully-orchestratedness just takes away from the emotion.

One thing that really, really got me with this 1967 version: listen to how Brian performs on the word "tough." Wow.

Also, really love how Brian comes back to the chord-every-beat playing earlier than we're used to.

And something I just can't help but think...SOMEBODY had to know about this session. Brian was obviously not alone (unless he was talking to himself at the end). You would think that, given the importance of "Surf's Up" and how much fans love the song, that someone would have mentioned it..."Ya know, I seem to remember Brian recording it by himself later on..." I'm guessing Carl must have heard it, given how he sang "Canvass the town and brush the backdrop..." the same way Brian did in this demo, and whatever engineer was in the studio...and there were usually MULTIPLE people in the control room, right?

What YouTube posting? It doesn't seem to be there.

[John Stivaktas]

I remember dreaming some time ago that I heard the 1967 "Surf's Up" and thinking "Well, it's good, but nothing earth-shattering."

I've since heard it from start to finish, thanks to the YouTube posting....the only think I don't like about it is the random pops that apparently is from the iTunes download. (Yet another argument for CDs...) And it's done the way I think it should be: Brian by himself with his mid-60's voice. That's why my dream version of "Surf's Up" would be the 1966 piano demo but with the vocal harmonies joining in at the end. (Still gotta have the harmonies!) The fully-orchestratedness just takes away from the emotion.

One thing that really, really got me with this 1967 version: listen to how Brian performs on the word "tough." Wow.

Also, really love how Brian comes back to the chord-every-beat playing earlier than we're used to.

And something I just can't help but think...SOMEBODY had to know about this session. Brian was obviously not alone (unless he was talking to himself at the end). You would think that, given the importance of "Surf's Up" and how much fans love the song, that someone would have mentioned it..."Ya know, I seem to remember Brian recording it by himself later on..." I'm guessing Carl must have heard it, given how he sang "Canvass the town and brush the backdrop..." the same way Brian did in this demo, and whatever engineer was in the studio...and there were usually MULTIPLE people in the control room, right?

What YouTube posting? It doesn't seem to be there.

Taken down due to copyright claim by EMI. That would include the other uploads for The SMiLE Sessions also.

[Ron]

Personally, I think the new Surf's Up sounds great.  Sure it's not perfect, but putting Brian in lead with Carl sprinkled on top... uh... that's pretty cool.  Really cool.  Haven't gotten far enough into the CD yet to hear the '67 version.

[anazgnos]

And something I just can't help but think...SOMEBODY had to know about this session. Brian was obviously not alone (unless he was talking to himself at the end). You would think that, given the importance of "Surf's Up" and how much fans love the song, that someone would have mentioned it..."Ya know, I seem to remember Brian recording it by himself later on..." I'm guessing Carl must have heard it, given how he sang "Canvass the town and brush the backdrop..." the same way Brian did in this demo, and whatever engineer was in the studio...and there were usually MULTIPLE people in the control room, right?

Somebody just quoted this Friends-era interview with Brian the other day and it really struck me as significant in light of "Surf's Up 1967", and the question of why it was recorded...

The song 'Surf’s Up' that I sang for that documentary never came out on an album, and it was supposed to come out on the SMILE album, and that and a couple of other songs were junked ... because I didn't feel that they ... I don't know why, I just didn't, for some reason, didn't want to put them on the album [...] because I didn't think that the songs really were right for the public at the time, and I didn't have a feeling, a commercial feeling, about some of these songs that we've never released, and ... maybe I ... some people like to hang onto certain things and ... just as their own little songs that they've written almost for themselves.

[runnersdialzero]

Personally, I think the new Surf's Up sounds great.  Sure it's not perfect, but putting Brian in lead with Carl sprinkled on top... uh... that's pretty cool.  Really cool.  Haven't gotten far enough into the CD yet to hear the '67 version.

Not to discredit this appearing on an official release, but you lot are aware this has been done a dozen or so times before and done well, right?

[Ron]

Personally, I think the new Surf's Up sounds great.  Sure it's not perfect, but putting Brian in lead with Carl sprinkled on top... uh... that's pretty cool.  Really cool.  Haven't gotten far enough into the CD yet to hear the '67 version.

Not to discredit this appearing on an official release, but you lot are aware this has been done a dozen or so times before and done well, right?

No.  We weren't aware of that.  Only you knew that. 

[Runaways]

I love that the bells/cascade guitar and "trumpet swan" were finally brought out and clear.  It sounds great.  that was one of my big problems with '71.  helllooooo new definitive cut

[runnersdialzero]

Personally, I think the new Surf's Up sounds great.  Sure it's not perfect, but putting Brian in lead with Carl sprinkled on top... uh... that's pretty cool.  Really cool.  Haven't gotten far enough into the CD yet to hear the '67 version.

Not to discredit this appearing on an official release, but you lot are aware this has been done a dozen or so times before and done well, right?

No.  We weren't aware of that.  Only you knew that. 

:O

[Sam_BFC]

Got the set today and managed to avoid all samples to hear the tracks with as fresh ears as possible!

Personally speaking I quite liked what they did with Surf's Up, thought it was done really well.

I was a bit apprehensive about the 1967 Surf's Up as a couple people were a little underwhelmed by it but man for me hearing that was deep and moving, the way Brian sang each high 'domino' was so sweet and in my imagination that it how he would have sang that word on a finished 1966 production if he ever did a proper vocal for it.  'A children's song' line was so gorgeous as well.

I'd also add that while it clearly is Brian I can definitely see why a chap a few days ago thought it sounded like Carl in certain parts; indeed I played it to my Mum who was surprised when I told her it was Brian singing when she asked.

[smokeythebear]

Is it just me or is the timing completely of on the vocals for the new surfs up? I cut quite alot in cubase and this is just poor sync, it is lagging and makes me feel uneasy each time i hear it.