Darian and SMiLE

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

I have a weird question, When I met Darian in NYC, I wanted him to sign my "Heroes and Villians" 45.

He Obviously didn't work on the ORIGINAL version, so he said he wouldn't feel right signing it, so he got Brian to sign it and then came back.

When he came back, I thanked him and asked him, even nicer, if he could sign it because in my opinion he was more important to SMiLE then even the Beach Boys were!

So he signed it, and I was really happy

But my question is, How important is Darian to SMiLE? I know Mr. Priore and Darian were friends, and collected SMiLE bootlegs,
and after seeing "Beautiful Dreamer" I believe that Darian Achieved what Brian couldn't, he PUT THE PIECES TOGETHER.

So, what do you think about Darian and SMiLE?

[Roger Ryan]

Yes, Darian was very important to BWPS and, because of that, his work may very well have a degree of influence on THE SMiLE SESSIONS box set. However, he did not have anything to do with that "Heroes & Villains" 45 single and I can understand him not wanting to sign it initially (how nice of him to ask Brian to sign it for you!).

[Sam_BFC]

To me, the most significant contribution Darian made to BWPS was the support he gave Brian, making him feel as comfortable and at ease as possible with bringing the project to fruition.  Irrespective of the fake harpsichord, I think that is something Darian should be highly praised for and something to be celebrated.

[Ian]

Right-as discussed here ad nauseam- Smile is an album that Brian and the BBs worked on off and on from the Summer of 66 to the spring of 67 and then abandoned.  BWPS is a project in which Smile songs were re-recorded or finished in 2004. So Darian had a hand in BWPS-but nothing to do with Smile and therefore nothing to do with the upcoming Smile Sessions CD

[ghost]

Darian strikes me as someone that could've been in Brian's scene back in 1966/1967. Just look at the airport photo, can't you imagine Darian there with his hair?

So I go easy on the guy for that reason. If it were Jeff Foskett Helps Brian Wilson Present Smile then I'd be furious.

Darian seems like one of the only guys in that band who would love to go really far out and leave the Jeff Foskett setlists in the past.

[Sam_BFC]

So Darian had a hand in BWPS-but nothing to do with Smile and therefore nothing to do with the upcoming Smile Sessions CD

Mark L did suggest that the sequence for the 'close as we can get'  Smile Sessions disc will be informed at least in part by BWPS.

[Wirestone]

Darian is awesome. A fabulous guy in every way.

He also -- while critical to BWPS as a musical secretary -- deferred to Brian in every way possible. A band member, when asked about Darian's contributions to the sequencing, basically commented that it would have been a lot different and more unusual if Darian had done it.

Point is, the man has no ego for himself at all. He truly wants to serve Brian and music and the projects. And he also refuses -- most of the time -- to do the pure greatest hits tours with BW.

[Shady]

He really impressed me in the smile Doc, his work on BWPS was fantastic...

He also sounds really good on Darlin'

[37!ws]

Darian to me is one of the most important people Brian has ever worked with, mainly because he was able to help Brian with Smile.

One night in 2006 the Mrs. and I, by very dumb luck, got backstage at Brian's concert...(this doesn't have to do directly with Darian, but...WE MET BRIAN THAT NIGHT AND HE SHOOK OUR HANDS!!!!)...and I saw Darian so I walked over to him and said something like, "I know you're a busy guy, I don't want to take up your time, so let me just say this: first of all, thank you for 'Shine On Me,'" -- and he interrupted wide-eyed to tell me that someone came up to him the night before to play him her "Shine On Me" ringtone -- and then I continued, "And thank you for helping Brian finish Smile." That last thing I said -- he very humbly kind of backed away from, as if he didn't want any credit for it, as if he wanted Brian to get all the kudos for it...I guess he just saw himself as a guy who just laid out for Brian the music that was there...from what I hear, VDP is the same way -- he also wants all the kudos to go to Brian...

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

Yes, Darian was very important to BWPS and, because of that, his work may very well have a degree of influence on THE SMiLE SESSIONS box set. However, he did not have anything to do with that "Heroes & Villains" 45 single and I can understand him not wanting to sign it initially (how nice of him to ask Brian to sign it for you!).

Yes, it was very nice

To me, I wanted him to sign it because "Heroes and Villains" as it was intended, was partially played by him, and that's my favorite version.

[adamghost]

Darian deserves a medal.  He is the only guy in the world that could have done what he did.  Perfect combination of aesthetic, integrity, musical knowledge, political skills and, as has been mentioned before, egolessness.  A hero in my opinion.

[Jon Stebbins]

...because in my opinion he was more important to SMiLE then even the Beach Boys were!

Wow, I know that would have made Darian cringe inside. No one knows better than him that statements like that are historically untrue. He was more important to BWPS...which is not Smile...his BWPS choices will inform the upcoming box, but not because Darian would necessarily want it that way, but because of political power and leverage that have nothing to do with him. He knows the difference between politics and aesthetics, and the difference between Brian's brothers and partners, and his latter day support system. I think a statement like this one actually disrespects Darian's great contributions because it so mangles reality.

[Sam_BFC]

He was more important to BWPS...which is not Smile...

I know this has been debated extensively, but I think it is acceptable opinion to consider BWPS to be the Smile.

I probably don't think of it that way...but if BWPS means Smile to someone then it is a valid point of you IMO

[Sam_BFC]

And to be honest, before I came to this board the notion that BWPS wasn't Smile didn't even cross my mind and it seems the OP is also not making a specific distinction between the two.

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

I agree BWPS is NOT SMiLE, However, it is part of the SMiLE Legacy, which is what I meant.

[Jon Stebbins]

You have to make the distinction if you care to think about it at all. BWPS is for the most part a paint by numbers version of the unreleased Beach Boys Smile recordings. Yes it has completed passages and a nicely realized assembly of the ideas...but it is not an original work. The majority of it is a cover of, or a facsimile of the original elements from 66/67. That truth might be hard to swallow, but the more you delve into what Smile was/is, the more that becomes clear. That said I think BWPS proves that Smile could have been a compact masterpiece and not an indecipherable mess. For that proof alone i think it is important and a wonderful release.

[Sam_BFC]

I agree with you Jon but I just think there is also a partially credible argument that says otherwise. 

[Wirestone]

I think "facsimile" is a bit of a loaded term here -- suggesting that BWPS is in some way deficient on its own, which I think is assuredly not the case.

It is a cover version, but a cover version only in the sense that an orchestra and pianist might perform Rhapsody in Blue today, some 80 years after its writing and initial performance.

Yes, that interpretation does ask us to think of Smile Prime as more as a composition than recording, which is a distinction seldom made in the rock age. But I think we can consider and appreciate it as both things ..

[sockittome]

Since SMiLE ('67) was never completed or released, while BWPS was, why is it so hard for people to comprehend BWPS as the final product with the SMiLE sessions serving as the blueprint (rather than BWPS being merely a "cover" of the SMiLE material)?

[?]

Since SMiLE ('67) was never completed or released, while BWPS was, why is it so hard for people to comprehend BWPS as the final product with the SMiLE sessions serving as the blueprint (rather than BWPS being merely a "cover" of the SMiLE material)?

This.  BWPS is the only Smile.

[the captain]

BWPS isn't Smile because it a) exists, and b) is BWPS. It's not that hard to make peace with, if you let yourself. It cannot be what began some 35 (or whatever) years earlier. Obviously. It can only be what it is, which is what it was sold as. That's it. To try to make it the completed Smile is something nobody involved was quite willing to do, so why bother? Just let it be BWPS, a product which it is quite successful at being. And let the unreleased / semi-released / soon-to-be-released-again-or-so-we're-told Smile session material be what it is, which is a bunch of stuff that would probably have been a great album if it were a) an album released in its time, or at least b) an album released, period. All these things said, Darian is amazing, but I'd go with Adam's and Jon's statements on the topic.

[drbeachboy]

Since SMiLE ('67) was never completed or released, while BWPS was, why is it so hard for people to comprehend BWPS as the final product with the SMiLE sessions serving as the blueprint (rather than BWPS being merely a "cover" of the SMiLE material)?

This.  BWPS is the only Smile.

Only until November 1st or thereabouts. I suppose TSS disc 1 then brings Smile full circle.

[Chris Brown]

BWPS isn't Smile because it a) exists, and b) is BWPS. It's not that hard to make peace with, if you let yourself. It cannot be what began some 35 (or whatever) years earlier. Obviously. It can only be what it is, which is what it was sold as. That's it. To try to make it the completed Smile is something nobody involved was quite willing to do, so why bother? Just let it be BWPS, a product which it is quite successful at being. And let the unreleased / semi-released / soon-to-be-released-again-or-so-we're-told Smile session material be what it is, which is a bunch of stuff that would probably have been a great album if it were a) an album released in its time, or at least b) an album released, period. All these things said, Darian is amazing, but I'd go with Adam's and Jon's statements on the topic.

As do I, although the composition/recording distinction that Wirestone pointed out is interesting to think about.  I just don't think that, in this case, you can separate the two.  Brian's recording techniques and ideas in '66-'67 were just as important and revolutionary as the music itself - it's the marriage of the two that makes the project special.  So although as a composition Smile was indeed finished in 2004, the recording side doesn't come close to living up to what was achieved on the original sessions (Jon's word choice of "facsimile" is dead-on), and for that reason I just don't think you can consider BWPS to be the Smile.

We sure do know how to  around here don't we?

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

Since SMiLE ('67) was never completed or released, while SMILEY SMILE was, why is it so hard for people to comprehend Smiley Smile as the final product with the SMiLE sessions serving as the blueprint (rather than Smiley being merely a "bunt" of the SMiLE material)?

 

[puni puni]

There is no Smile album, only recordings of the music derivative from Smile sessions.