SMiLE Conjecture 101

[Passing Bye]

Greetings!

Have enjoyed the proceedings out here for quite awhile and thought I’d throw in three topics for conversational fodder.  Of course, you’ll have to pardon my rookie ignorance if these have been previously discussed...  In any event, I’m eager to review comment and assorted horseplay from the knowledgable senior members out there in SMiLE-e-land.  Much thanks!

Missing Tapes.  It seems plausible that an unknown quantity of Smile tapes could have been seized during litigation as the tapes were no doubt the principal tangible asset of economic interest to both Brother and Capitol.  Additionally, accounting for the compromised Beach Boys-Smile-Capitol-Brian Wilson JAN-APR67 relationship, speculation tells me Wilson may have never returned to comprehensively annotate or review the numerous Smile session tapes after 28FEB67 -- the point at which the lawsuit commenced, and interestingly enough, just a couple days shy of when his continuous devotion to the project apparently ended.

LP Song List.  Am perplexed by the inclusion of the two relatively “minor” entries -- “The Old Master Painter” and “I’m In Great Shape”.  That both pieces share equal billing along side the more familiar cornerstone compositions may suggest both were never fully realized based on much of the aural evidence to date.

It’s also interesting to note the discrepancies between Frank Holmes’ artwork and the infamous hand-written Smile LP list.  Surely the artwork preceded the latter:  While assigning a date to Holmes’ work is arguably anybody’s guess (MAY-OCT66), using author Keith Badman’s recording dates as a guide, the hand-written list could be reasonably pinned to NOV66.  Quite telling would be the song list, lyrics, and any other project information supplied to Mr. Holmes as this could possibly suggest the circumstances that fueled the subsequent song / song title changes (i.e., “Home on the Range” to “Cabin Essence”; and “My Vega-Tables -- The Elements” to “Vega-Tables”).  Information supplied to Holmes may also reveal why the “Do You Like Worms?” and “My Vega-Tables” illustrations exhibited no lyric fragments (do these two illustrations complement the lyrics eventually released?).  It would also be fascinating to discover when and by whom his artwork was approved for printing; and when and by whom the booklet was deemed acceptable for LP inclusion.

In any event, author Matt Bell’s essay on the 2004 release, Brian Wilson Presents Smile, seems to firmly indicate that an LP song order sequence was never finalized in its day and that noteworthy amounts of music and lyric were not completed -- as apparently confirmed by both Wilson and Van Dyke Parks.

Brian Wilson Compilation Reels.  According to author Keith Badman, Wilson assembled two comp reels, 17-18DEC66.  If this is so, then it would seem reasonable that the contents would have been the choice selections to date.

[Phoenix]

I've nothing to add on the first topic, other than to say it's an interesting theory I look forward to seeing debated here.

As for the second one, the answer has always (well before BWPS and only "confirmed" by it later) been obvious to me and it's all I can do to keep from banging my head against my desk whenever I see it brought up.  I usually stay pretty quiet on here but figured I'd go nuts if I ignored such a straight forward inquiry.  (Also, this isn't a slight to you or your "rookie" status.  In fact, welcome!  This "debate" is just up there with the lowercase "I" for me, in terms of my amazement of any confusion related to it.)

It's shorthand, plain and simple.  Ask McCartney to list the songs on Abbey Road and odds are, he may very well include "The Long One" in place of most of side two.  Or he might say "The End" to refer to "Golden Slumbers/Carry That Weight/The End".  Just as Brian used "Barnyard" to refer to what we've heard referred to as "The Barnyard Suite" ("Barnyard/The Old Master Painter/You Are My Sunshine" and until relatively recently "Barnshine") since AT LEAST the release of the Priess book in 1979.    Likewise, "I'm In Great Shape" refers to the MEDLEY of "I'm In Great Shape/I Wanna Be Around/Workshop"!  It was only because bootleggers were cataloging tracks/files/"songs" that these bits started to be thought of as individual segments beyond Brian's original recording sessions.  And just as he listed "Heroes And Villains" on the list, we know what he really meant was (something LIKE) "Heroes And Villains/Fluttertone horn/Sunny Down Snuff/Bicycle Rider/Etc.".

And while I'm here venting, "But Carol Kaye specifically said Brian told her 'Friday Night' was 'the rebuilding after the fire...'"  First off, her "memory" (I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt here) has been shown to be less than perfect and second of all, perhaps Brian was referring metaphorically to the sessions themselves and not the songs.  Remember, the musicians didn't think of the in progress songs as we do now.  MAYBE he was saying, "OK, that 'Fire' session was way out; like we were tearing it all down.  Let's try and get a feel for this song by imagining that we're all back together trying to put everything back."

Some people take every word (or lowercase letter "I") completely literally.  Keep in mind, Jesus bringing the dead back to life is no more PROOF of a miracle than someone telling you I turned a sow's ear into a silk purse.  I'm really not angry and I'm sorry if I sound that way.  It's just one of my bigger Beach Boys pet peeves.  There are enough mysteries surrounding Smile.  The last thing we need to do is create more.  Maybe I'm wrong but maybe sometimes a rose IS just a rose.

[runnersdialzero]

The list of songs was not a tracklist and was said to not even be written by Brian. The list of songs was not a tracklist and was said to not even be written by Brian. The list of songs was not a tracklist and was said to not even be written by Brian. The list of songs was not a tracklist and was said to not even be written by Brian. The list of songs was not a tracklist and was said to not even be written by Brian. The list of songs was not a tracklist and was said to not even be written by Brian. The list of songs was not a tracklist and was said to not even be written by Brian. The list of songs was not a tracklist and was said to not even be written by Brian. The list of songs was not a tracklist and was said to not even be written by Brian. The list of songs was not a tracklist and was said to not even be written by Brian. The list of songs was not a tracklist and was said to not even be written by Brian. The list of songs was not a tracklist and was said to not even be written by Brian. The list of songs was not a tracklist and was said to not even be written by Brian. The list of songs was not a tracklist and was said to not even be written by Brian. The list of songs was not a tracklist and was said to not even be written by Brian. The list of songs was not a tracklist and was said to not even be written by Brian. The list of songs was not a tracklist and was said to not even be written by Brian. The list of songs was not a tracklist and was said to not even be written by Brian. The list of songs was not a tracklist and was said to not even be written by Brian. The list of songs was not a tracklist and was said to not even be written by Brian. The list of songs was not a tracklist and was said to not even be written by Brian. The list of songs was not a tracklist and was said to not even be written by Brian. The list of songs was not a tracklist and was said to not even be written by Brian. The list of songs was not a tracklist and was said to not even be written by Brian. The list of songs was not a tracklist and was said to not even be written by Brian. The list of songs was not a tracklist and was said to not even be written by Brian. The list of songs was not a tracklist and was said to not even be written by Brian. The list of songs was not a tracklist and was said to not even be written by Brian. The list of songs was not a tracklist and was said to not even be written by Brian. The list of songs was not a tracklist and was said to not even be written by Brian.

[Phoenix]

Regardless, it's still shorthand.  Brian (and whoever wrote the list) knew what "Barnyard" and "Old Master Painter" meant then and 37 years later it meant the same thing (albeit with the removal of "Barnshine").

[Andrew G. Doe]

Missing Tapes.  It seems plausible that an unknown quantity of Smile tapes could have been seized during litigation as the tapes were no doubt the principal tangible asset of economic interest to both Brother and Capitol.  Additionally, accounting for the compromised Beach Boys-Smile-Capitol-Brian Wilson JAN-APR67 relationship, speculation tells me Wilson may have never returned to comprehensively annotate or review the numerous Smile session tapes after 28FEB67 -- the point at which the lawsuit commenced, and interestingly enough, just a couple days shy of when his continuous devotion to the project apparently ended.

Might seem plausible to you. Doesn't fly for me. For one thing, Capitol owned the tapes anyway. They paid for the sessions.

Information supplied to Holmes may also reveal why the “Do You Like Worms?” and “My Vega-Tables” illustrations exhibited no lyric fragments (do these two illustrations complement the lyrics eventually released?). 

In the case of "Worms", yes.

[Passing Bye]

...Just as Brian used "Barnyard" to refer to what we've heard referred to as "The Barnyard Suite" ("Barnyard/The Old Master Painter/You Are My Sunshine" and until relatively recently "Barnshine") since AT LEAST the release of the Priess book in 1979.    Likewise, "I'm In Great Shape" refers to the MEDLEY of "I'm In Great Shape/I Wanna Be Around/Workshop"!  It was only because bootleggers were cataloging tracks/files/"songs" that these bits started to be thought of as individual segments beyond Brian's original recording sessions.  And just as he listed "Heroes And Villains" on the list, we know what he really meant was (something LIKE) "Heroes And Villains/Fluttertone horn/Sunny Down Snuff/Bicycle Rider/Etc."...

Phoenix:  Thank you for the clarification -- most valuable.  I do agree the bootleggers have definitely impacted the matter over the years -- to the point of creating Smile Fiction as it were.  (To that point, I recall a friend of mine playing me a Smile track called "Holidays" round about 1983.  After the piece ended, I retrieved my copy of Porgy & Bess (Miles Davis & Gil Evans) and re-played the same piece (Here Come de Honey Man, I think) -- and with that I was introduced to the wonderful world of Smile Bootleggers.)

Missing Tapes.  It seems plausible that an unknown quantity of Smile tapes could have been seized during litigation as the tapes were no doubt the principal tangible asset of economic interest to both Brother and Capitol.  Additionally, accounting for the compromised Beach Boys-Smile-Capitol-Brian Wilson JAN-APR67 relationship, speculation tells me Wilson may have never returned to comprehensively annotate or review the numerous Smile session tapes after 28FEB67 -- the point at which the lawsuit commenced, and interestingly enough, just a couple days shy of when his continuous devotion to the project apparently ended.

Might seem plausible to you. Doesn't fly for me. For one thing, Capitol owned the tapes anyway. They paid for the sessions.

Mr. Doe:  Indeed, Capitol would want to drive this point in a court of law -- and what better way to do it than to offer physical evidence for the court's review; therefore, in preparing their case, it seems logical to me that the CAP legal team would want to possess examples of what exactly the Beach Boys were currently producing for their company...)

Information supplied to Holmes may also reveal why the “Do You Like Worms?” and “My Vega-Tables” illustrations exhibited no lyric fragments (do these two illustrations complement the lyrics eventually released?). 

In the case of "Worms", yes.

Thank you!

[Jeff]

Missing Tapes.  It seems plausible that an unknown quantity of Smile tapes could have been seized during litigation as the tapes were no doubt the principal tangible asset of economic interest to both Brother and Capitol. 

What do you mean "seized during litigation"?  The police/prosecutor can in some cases "seize" evidence, and I think a bankruptcy trustee can too.  But you're talking about a civil suit, and there's simply not a procedure to do this, at least not that I've ever heard of.  While it would be possible for a party to place a lien on certain assets (meaning the party could claim the right to receive payment from their sale), I don't see how the actual assets could be taken before a judgment is in place.

[bgas]

Missing Tapes.  It seems plausible that an unknown quantity of Smile tapes could have been seized during litigation as the tapes were no doubt the principal tangible asset of economic interest to both Brother and Capitol. 

What do you mean "seized during litigation"?  The police/prosecutor can in some cases "seize" evidence, and I think a bankruptcy trustee can too.  But you're talking about a civil suit, and there's simply not a procedure to do this, at least not that I've ever heard of.  While it would be possible for a party to place a lien on certain assets (meaning the party could claim the right to receive payment from their sale), I don't see how the actual assets could be taken before a judgment is in place.

Simply following the line of reasoning that Capitol paid for the sessions( Not saying this supposition is right or wrong) it would seem to follow that they would only be seizing something that already belonged to them. So the supposition here is they seized tapes, that already belonged to them, and consequently filed and lost them for 44 years.
Since lots of people have been thru the Capitol vaults, where were they kept? Vee Jay's Vaults?

[Jeff]

Missing Tapes.  It seems plausible that an unknown quantity of Smile tapes could have been seized during litigation as the tapes were no doubt the principal tangible asset of economic interest to both Brother and Capitol. 

What do you mean "seized during litigation"?  The police/prosecutor can in some cases "seize" evidence, and I think a bankruptcy trustee can too.  But you're talking about a civil suit, and there's simply not a procedure to do this, at least not that I've ever heard of.  While it would be possible for a party to place a lien on certain assets (meaning the party could claim the right to receive payment from their sale), I don't see how the actual assets could be taken before a judgment is in place.

Simply following the line of reasoning that Capitol paid for the sessions( Not saying this supposition is right or wrong) it would seem to follow that they would only be seizing something that already belonged to them. So the supposition here is they seized tapes, that already belonged to them, and consequently filed and lost them for 44 years.
Since lots of people have been thru the Capitol vaults, where were they kept? Vee Jay's Vaults?

OK, but my point is that U.S. law does not work that way.  One can't simply "seize" something based on a claim that he's the rightful owner.  First there has to be a judgment by the court awarding the asset.

[Passing Bye]

Missing Tapes.  It seems plausible that an unknown quantity of Smile tapes could have been seized during litigation as the tapes were no doubt the principal tangible asset of economic interest to both Brother and Capitol. 

What do you mean "seized during litigation"?  The police/prosecutor can in some cases "seize" evidence, and I think a bankruptcy trustee can too.  But you're talking about a civil suit, and there's simply not a procedure to do this, at least not that I've ever heard of.  While it would be possible for a party to place a lien on certain assets (meaning the party could claim the right to receive payment from their sale), I don't see how the actual assets could be taken before a judgment is in place.

Simply following the line of reasoning that Capitol paid for the sessions( Not saying this supposition is right or wrong) it would seem to follow that they would only be seizing something that already belonged to them. So the supposition here is they seized tapes, that already belonged to them, and consequently filed and lost them for 44 years.
Since lots of people have been thru the Capitol vaults, where were they kept? Vee Jay's Vaults?

OK, but my point is that U.S. law does not work that way.  One can't simply "seize" something based on a claim that he's the rightful owner.  First there has to be a judgment by the court awarding the asset.

Jeff and bgas:  Re-reading my initial post, I obviously erred!  ("seizure" was the wrong idea here.  Sorry!)  Without getting too fancy, I simply meant to write that some of the tapes may've ended up in the hands of either legal team; if so, they may never have found their way back to the Beach Boys given the subsequent state of the project.  (Perhaps this is a suitable question for Nick Grillo or David Anderle...)

[Andrew G. Doe]

Missing Tapes.  It seems plausible that an unknown quantity of Smile tapes could have been seized during litigation as the tapes were no doubt the principal tangible asset of economic interest to both Brother and Capitol.  Additionally, accounting for the compromised Beach Boys-Smile-Capitol-Brian Wilson JAN-APR67 relationship, speculation tells me Wilson may have never returned to comprehensively annotate or review the numerous Smile session tapes after 28FEB67 -- the point at which the lawsuit commenced, and interestingly enough, just a couple days shy of when his continuous devotion to the project apparently ended.

Might seem plausible to you. Doesn't fly for me. For one thing, Capitol owned the tapes anyway. They paid for the sessions.

Mr. Doe:  Indeed, Capitol would want to drive this point in a court of law -- and what better way to do it than to offer physical evidence for the court's review; therefore, in preparing their case, it seems logical to me that the CAP legal team would want to possess examples of what exactly the Beach Boys were currently producing for their company...)

No need to offer physical evidence at all: the AFM contracts, the invoices from the studios and their own accounts would suffice in the eyes of the law. Once again, someone's fabricating an incident from thin air to bolster their own theories. Dangerous nonsense.