Beach Boys Party vs Smiley Smile

[Loaf]

I was thinking again this morning, as I do, about why, or more likely HOW, the Beach Boys came to record and release Smiley Smile. Yes, I know they had to put something out, but why SS? What a weird little album. Stoned people, a song about whistling, munching vegetables, pouring water from a jug. How the hell did they think this would even match their recent chart stuff like Good Vibrations, Sloop John B, Wouldn't It Be Nice etc...?

So they had to knock together an album, but look at Wild Honey. That was just as rushed, but had "proper" songs on it. So why SS?

Then it occurred to me (and it's probably occurred and been discussed on this board to death, but i can't recall any of it), that if SMiLE wasn't "appropriate" music for the Boys to make (and Brian wouldn't let them), and if Pet Sounds was seen at the time as a kind of downer/misstep, then the last successful "Beach Boys" album before that would have been Party!

It seems to me that Smiley Smile is an attempt to make another Party!-style album, but this time, in 1967, instead of being Richie Cunninghams on the beach, with their high school prom queens and 50s locker room harmonies, they are psychedelic dudes, hip to the scene and the multicoloured youth of the day.

I love SS to pieces, but this reasoning seems the only way that the band and Capitol ever would have allowed something like this to be released.

[willy]

Very interesting point!

[rab2591]

Interesting point. Perhaps Brian thought this was the case....however, I doubt Capitol would have been championing this outlook....possible liner notes:

"One night in June 1967, I and the other Beach Boys invited some friends over to record the first and only live psychedelic album. We even had some Benzedrine for everybody. The engineers set up some microphones so that everybody in the room was heard loud and clear. The boys and girls we invited really enjoyed themselves - especially with Marilyn continually bringing us a fresh supply of steak and hash brownies from the kitchen......"Fall Breaks and Back to Winter" was a ballad which really slowed the mood for a couple of minutes. Now we were rockin again with "she's Goin Bald'. This was a funny song. It was about a guy in our band that kept losing his hair...."

just kidding of course. No, in all seriousness I had never thought of that idea.....perfectly logical that Brian was thinking of that.

[grillo]

It definitely seems like a stop-gap album rushed out before the 'real' one could be finished and, along with the extremely casual atmosphere, could easily have been intended as the Party followup. Since I'm not over at Andrew's site investigating this  I can't say for sure (dates are probably off), but maybe the Heider sessions, beyond being re-records of the Hawaii material, could've been intended as the more familiar parts (Surfer Girl, Rhonda) of that second Party album that eventually became SS. Either way, it seems clear that the BB were still intending to release SMiLe, or some other 'bigger' album, and that SS was just a contract thing (a great stoned-soul contract thing, but still). 67 must have been a crazy frickin' year for those guys!

[D409]

Had never considered Loaf's theory before, but maybe there's something in it...as good a work SS is in its own right, it sounds like a temporary album. Has Priore's theory that a full length SMiLE was being prepared for release after SS been completely disproved ?

[kookadams]

I don't see why Smiley Smile would be compared to Party; I mean Party was a "live- in the studio" record with cover songs and previous released songs, it wasn't a new studio product. I think Smiley Smile was great for what it was/is, even if it was recorded in one or few sessions I wouldn't liken it to Party. Also remember the pressure record companies put on groups at that time to get records out, from '63 thru '67 the Beach Boys were putting out more than an album a year; I wouldn't say it was rushed but I'm sure they did have some pressure to get a record out considering that it was well over a year since Pet Sounds and they needed a full-length to back Good Vibrations.

[Ram4]

I'm just as perplexed that Smiley Smile came out, especially in light of SMiLE being considered to be too weird/far out for the regular fans.  In other words, if the powers that be didn't want them to mess with the formula, then surely Smiley Smile was even more further from the formula than SMiLE.  It seems that it was a take it or leave it situation since the label wanted something out by then, and by throwing on Good Vibrations, at least they had the monster hit song on it (albeit one that was old by then).  I find it hard to believe that Mike would be in favor of Smiley as well, since he was so against the hippy scene.

[Les P]

It seems that it was a take it or leave it situation since the label wanted something out by then, and by throwing on Good Vibrations, at least they had the monster hit song on it (albeit one that was old by then).  

Yep, I think they were just desperate to get some product out after all that time.

I find it hard to believe that Mike would be in favor of Smiley as well, since he was so against the hippy scene.

Would love to hear his thoughts on it at the time!  Maybe they were all so high they were really taken with it.  Or maybe he was just happy to be "back in the fold" as Brian's collaborator.  "She's Goin' Bald" certainly reflects his type of humor.

[Micha]

I find it hard to believe that Mike would be in favor of Smiley as well, since he was so against the hippy scene.

Would love to hear his thoughts on it at the time!  Maybe they were all so high they were really taken with it.  Or maybe he was just happy to be "back in the fold" as Brian's collaborator.  "She's Goin' Bald" certainly reflects his type of humor.

Some interpretations:
a) Mike did not want another Brian breakdown like he may have witnessed with SMiLE (speculation!), so he went along this time
b) It actually was Brian who junked SMiLE after all, Mike would have done it even if he was complaining
c) The mood of the album is: the family around the family organ like in the good old days, or, as VDP calls it: social harmony
d) Mike was happy that Brian was rid of his posse and worked more closely with the band again.

[Cam Mott]

Really, if you compare studio hour to studio hour was Smiley really that rushed or was it about the same but just done in less time from start to finish because there wasn't the usual delays of days or weeks between booked sessions?

[Loaf]

But often those delays between sessions allows for reflection and reassessing.

Yes, it was rushed, imo. But i wouldn't change a thing about it.

[smokeythebear]

I find it hard to believe that Mike would be in favor of Smiley as well, since he was so against the hippy scene.

Would love to hear his thoughts on it at the time!  Maybe they were all so high they were really taken with it.  Or maybe he was just happy to be "back in the fold" as Brian's collaborator.  "She's Goin' Bald" certainly reflects his type of humor.

Some interpretations:
a) Mike did not want another Brian breakdown like he may have witnessed with SMiLE (speculation!), so he went along this time
b) It actually was Brian who junked SMiLE after all, Mike would have done it even if he was complaining
c) The mood of the album is: the family around the family organ like in the good old days, or, as VDP calls it: social harmony
d) Mike was happy that Brian was rid of his posse and worked more closely with the band again.

What killed smile? complexity, depression, drugs, bandmates, bad marriage.

But main reason depression, catalyst of depression drugs and unwilling bandmates. It´s said in the smile documentary that drugs where the red herring of the smile project concidering how much work was done. I do not belive that, i belive the drugs taken triggered the depression that put Brian in bed and ended the smile project no question about it.

To have a producers chair in the studio you have to have a mind of steel, working depressed does not work.

[Loaf]

I thought the Brian-Drugs-Depressed-Smile finished-Bed scenario had been debunked...

Brian lost his nerve over Smile, the beginning of the slide sure, but I thought the depression and mental breakdown wasn't triggered until at least 1968 and a different set of drugs.

[Cam Mott]

 

Edit: sorry about this emoticon post, me and my new laptop are in the getting-to-know-you phase.

[Cam Mott]

But often those delays between sessions allows for reflection and reassessing.

Yes, it was rushed, imo. But i wouldn't change a thing about it.

No doubt but sometimes less is more.

Brian had recently prided himself on his album preplanning and had been coming to the studio prepared and Anderle said he couldn't get into the studios often or fast enough. In an era when the norm was to knock out 3 or 4 tracks for an album in a three hour session, SS doesn't automatically qualify as a rush job. Party is a rush job done in a couple of sessions and yet a brilliant concept done brilliantly. SS is done in the same time as most of Brian's album but without all the between-bookings padding which doesn't qualify it as a rush job imo.

[Roger Ryan]

I think the primitive recording conditions and weak song material make SMILEY SMILE appear more rushed than, say, SUMMER DAYS. As I mentioned in another thread, "Wind Chimes" on SS has a truly remarkable vocal arrangement and has a more sophisticated structure than the SMiLE version, but it appears to be thrown together because the recording/production is below par. Relying on the organ, dispensing with having numerous musicians on the sessions plus recording the majority of it at home gives it that rushed feel no matter how much time was actually spent on the sessions. It also doesn't help to have stoned giggling lead off one track which proves to be a trifle anyway, an instrumental (as the third track!) that repeats it's simple pattern multiple times with little to no variation or throwing in improvised chatter in the middle of a song. "Fall Breaks...", "With Me Tonight" and "Whistle In" are all tracks based on a single "feel" in search of a greater whole. As part of "The Elements", "Do You Like Worms?", "Vegetables" or "Heroes & Villains", these "feels" would have had a home; as their own tracks, they give the impression that Brian had gotten very lazy and/or was hurting for material. Of course, nothing could be farther from the truth given that the previous year had produced more than a couple albums worth of solid material.

[Micha]

I find it hard to believe that Mike would be in favor of Smiley as well, since he was so against the hippy scene.

Would love to hear his thoughts on it at the time!  Maybe they were all so high they were really taken with it.  Or maybe he was just happy to be "back in the fold" as Brian's collaborator.  "She's Goin' Bald" certainly reflects his type of humor.

Some interpretations:
a) Mike did not want another Brian breakdown like he may have witnessed with SMiLE (speculation!), so he went along this time
b) It actually was Brian who junked SMiLE after all, Mike would have done it even if he was complaining
c) The mood of the album is: the family around the family organ like in the good old days, or, as VDP calls it: social harmony
d) Mike was happy that Brian was rid of his posse and worked more closely with the band again.

What killed smile? complexity, depression, drugs, bandmates, bad marriage.

But main reason depression, catalyst of depression drugs and unwilling bandmates. It´s said in the smile documentary that drugs where the red herring of the smile project concidering how much work was done. I do not belive that, i belive the drugs taken triggered the depression that put Brian in bed and ended the smile project no question about it.

To have a producers chair in the studio you have to have a mind of steel, working depressed does not work.

Actually, the question about which I posted that was not "What killed SMiLE" but rather "Why did Mike go along with Smiley Smile but not with SMiLE".

[Roger Ryan]

I find it hard to believe that Mike would be in favor of Smiley as well, since he was so against the hippy scene.

Would love to hear his thoughts on it at the time!  Maybe they were all so high they were really taken with it.  Or maybe he was just happy to be "back in the fold" as Brian's collaborator.  "She's Goin' Bald" certainly reflects his type of humor.

Some interpretations:
a) Mike did not want another Brian breakdown like he may have witnessed with SMiLE (speculation!), so he went along this time
b) It actually was Brian who junked SMiLE after all, Mike would have done it even if he was complaining
c) The mood of the album is: the family around the family organ like in the good old days, or, as VDP calls it: social harmony
d) Mike was happy that Brian was rid of his posse and worked more closely with the band again.

What killed smile? complexity, depression, drugs, bandmates, bad marriage.

But main reason depression, catalyst of depression drugs and unwilling bandmates. It´s said in the smile documentary that drugs where the red herring of the smile project concidering how much work was done. I do not belive that, i belive the drugs taken triggered the depression that put Brian in bed and ended the smile project no question about it.

To have a producers chair in the studio you have to have a mind of steel, working depressed does not work.

Actually, the question about which I posted that was not "What killed SMiLE" but rather "Why did Mike go along with Smiley Smile but not with SMiLE".

You're assuming Mike didn't go along with SMiLE. We know he didn't care for the people Brian was hanging out with, that he took issue with some of the surrealist lyrics and (like his cousin) may have thought the material overall wasn't appropriate for the Beach Boys. We don't know whether he was steadfast against SMiLE. I suspect he was as distressed as the rest of the band that Brian cancelled the album after so much time was spent on sessions. SMILEY SMILE was Brian starting a new project and working closely with the band in a home studio. Mike had more input in the writing. He was probably thinking "Good, we're recording something again". Up until that point there had been little commercial failure; they had just been absent from the charts for a long time. After SMILEY SMILE did poorly in sales I can see Mike (and the others, really) thinking that the next recordings should be less far out and more commercial.

[Cam Mott]

I think the primitive recording conditions and weak song material make SMILEY SMILE appear more rushed than, say, SUMMER DAYS. As I mentioned in another thread, "Wind Chimes" on SS has a truly remarkable vocal arrangement and has a more sophisticated structure than the SMiLE version, but it appears to be thrown together because the recording/production is below par. Relying on the organ, dispensing with having numerous musicians on the sessions plus recording the majority of it at home gives it that rushed feel no matter how much time was actually spent on the sessions. It also doesn't help to have stoned giggling lead off one track which proves to be a trifle anyway, an instrumental (as the third track!) that repeats it's simple pattern multiple times with little to no variation or throwing in improvised chatter in the middle of a song. "Fall Breaks...", "With Me Tonight" and "Whistle In" are all tracks based on a single "feel" in search of a greater whole. As part of "The Elements", "Do You Like Worms?", "Vegetables" or "Heroes & Villains", these "feels" would have had a home; as their own tracks, they give the impression that Brian had gotten very lazy and/or was hurting for material. Of course, nothing could be farther from the truth given that the previous year had produced more than a couple albums worth of solid material.

Yes, and solid albums after with just as many/few sessions. I think that is right, the informal mood and approach that Brian had decided to go with may sound thrown together because there is less instrumentation which presumably required less arranging? However, Brian was still spending a whole session or more on these simplfied productions, that's sort of working harder on the "simpler" productions. Maybe. Sometimes [most times?] it is harder to work simpler and/or with restrictions you have intentionally set on yourself [home studio v. the studios for hire he could have used]. Anyway, it looks to me that Brian was working as hard on simpler productions. You know what I mean. Right? Is there any other agreement that SS has a simple complexity?

Anyways, if it were a rush job, it would not have taken a session or more per song just like most of the other albums imo.

[Cam Mott]

Actually, the question about which I posted that was not "What killed SMiLE" but rather "Why did Mike go along with Smiley Smile but not with SMiLE".

Mike did go along with Smiley Smile and SMiLE is the correct answer. [ding, ding, ding] What did I win?

[smokeythebear]

I think the primitive recording conditions and weak song material make SMILEY SMILE appear more rushed than, say, SUMMER DAYS. As I mentioned in another thread, "Wind Chimes" on SS has a truly remarkable vocal arrangement and has a more sophisticated structure than the SMiLE version, but it appears to be thrown together because the recording/production is below par. Relying on the organ, dispensing with having numerous musicians on the sessions plus recording the majority of it at home gives it that rushed feel no matter how much time was actually spent on the sessions. It also doesn't help to have stoned giggling lead off one track which proves to be a trifle anyway, an instrumental (as the third track!) that repeats it's simple pattern multiple times with little to no variation or throwing in improvised chatter in the middle of a song. "Fall Breaks...", "With Me Tonight" and "Whistle In" are all tracks based on a single "feel" in search of a greater whole. As part of "The Elements", "Do You Like Worms?", "Vegetables" or "Heroes & Villains", these "feels" would have had a home; as their own tracks, they give the impression that Brian had gotten very lazy and/or was hurting for material. Of course, nothing could be farther from the truth given that the previous year had produced more than a couple albums worth of solid material.

Yes, and solid albums after with just as many/few sessions. I think that is right, the informal mood and approach that Brian had decided to go with may sound thrown together because there is less instrumentation which presumably required less arranging? However, Brian was still spending a whole session or more on these simplfied productions, that's sort of working harder on the "simpler" productions. Maybe. Sometimes [most times?] it is harder to work simpler and/or with restrictions you have intentionally set on yourself [home studio v. the studios for hire he could have used]. Anyway, it looks to me that Brian was working as hard on simpler productions. You know what I mean. Right? Is there any other agreement that SS has a simple complexity?

Anyways, if it were a rush job, it would not have taken a session or more per song just like most of the other albums imo.

I cannot simply agree with that. Yes there is hard work even with simple arrangements IF the songs are not done. Much of the SS was already in the can, good vibrations, heroes etc.. Imagine writing horn charts, bass parts, string parts instructing fellow players, does it not seem more simple to record the songs with a single baldwin stoned? I dont think Brian was fine with putting being haunted by fire tapes psychic spies, Phil Spector etc, does that really sound like someone that is fine and dandy and did not break down until 68? Sounds more like no one wants to take the blame for Brians fall...

[Cam Mott]

I think the primitive recording conditions and weak song material make SMILEY SMILE appear more rushed than, say, SUMMER DAYS. As I mentioned in another thread, "Wind Chimes" on SS has a truly remarkable vocal arrangement and has a more sophisticated structure than the SMiLE version, but it appears to be thrown together because the recording/production is below par. Relying on the organ, dispensing with having numerous musicians on the sessions plus recording the majority of it at home gives it that rushed feel no matter how much time was actually spent on the sessions. It also doesn't help to have stoned giggling lead off one track which proves to be a trifle anyway, an instrumental (as the third track!) that repeats it's simple pattern multiple times with little to no variation or throwing in improvised chatter in the middle of a song. "Fall Breaks...", "With Me Tonight" and "Whistle In" are all tracks based on a single "feel" in search of a greater whole. As part of "The Elements", "Do You Like Worms?", "Vegetables" or "Heroes & Villains", these "feels" would have had a home; as their own tracks, they give the impression that Brian had gotten very lazy and/or was hurting for material. Of course, nothing could be farther from the truth given that the previous year had produced more than a couple albums worth of solid material.

Yes, and solid albums after with just as many/few sessions. I think that is right, the informal mood and approach that Brian had decided to go with may sound thrown together because there is less instrumentation which presumably required less arranging? However, Brian was still spending a whole session or more on these simplfied productions, that's sort of working harder on the "simpler" productions. Maybe. Sometimes [most times?] it is harder to work simpler and/or with restrictions you have intentionally set on yourself [home studio v. the studios for hire he could have used]. Anyway, it looks to me that Brian was working as hard on simpler productions. You know what I mean. Right? Is there any other agreement that SS has a simple complexity?

Anyways, if it were a rush job, it would not have taken a session or more per song just like most of the other albums imo.

I cannot simply agree with that. Yes there is hard work even with simple arrangements IF the songs are not done. Much of the SS was already in the can, good vibrations, heroes etc.. Imagine writing horn charts, bass parts, string parts instructing fellow players, does it not seem more simple to record the songs with a single baldwin stoned? I dont think Brian was fine with putting being haunted by fire tapes psychic spies, Phil Spector etc, does that really sound like someone that is fine and dandy and did not break down until 68? Sounds more like no one wants to take the blame for Brians fall...

OK, we agree to disagree because to me it does not appear to be a rush job.

I don't necessarily see Brian as the "tortured genius" either; genius yes, tortured no. Not yet. To me he seems more like a guy very much in control of himself and his surroundings and creations and whose creative thinker is touched with superstition, trendy spirituality, drugs a little and the odd [or rare, at the time] panic attack and lots of money and not many boundaries.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Mike did go along with Smiley Smile and SMiLE is the correct answer. [ding, ding, ding] What did I win?

It's not the correct answer according to Brian, Van Dyke, Marilyn and I'm sure several others.

[Cam Mott]

Mike did go along with Smiley Smile and SMiLE is the correct answer. [ding, ding, ding] What did I win?

It's not the correct answer according to Brian, Van Dyke, Marilyn and I'm sure several others.

Then who is that Mike imposter fully invested in performing on all of those recordings?

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Mike did go along with Smiley Smile and SMiLE is the correct answer. [ding, ding, ding] What did I win?

It's not the correct answer according to Brian, Van Dyke, Marilyn and I'm sure several others.

Then who is that Mike imposter fully invested in performing on all of those recordings?

Well, maybe you and I have a different conception of what "going along with" means. Yes, I suppose he did work on the album but he did also strongly object to the work he was doing on it, according to people very closely invested in the project.