Brian has signed off on Smile Sessions......

[vintagemusic]

I think it's important to have a sequence though. Something everyone - consumers, critics etc. - can agree is the sequence for the commercially released Smile album as it stands in 2011.

It doesn't have to claim to be what Brian intended in 67. Just a definitve 'best of' the Smile sessions.

I agree. There may have never been an intended sequence anyway. If you haven't finished recording
everything, you probably only have still forming ideas about the final sequence.

If Sgt pepper had a different sequence, and the lead vocals were missing on two songs, would
it affect the quality and listening experience. Somewhat.


Albums are made all the time, where the original scope or intent in not fully realized. Intended overdubs
or songs never got used. Strawberry Fields and Penny Lane were both intended for Sgt Pepper but didin't
end up on the album. Why do people feel they know better than Mark Linett or the Beach Boys how to
assemble SMiLE, they are the only people that even know what pieces they have to work with.How can you
second guess them when you don't even know what they have to work with. Haven't even heard what they
are doing yet.

[Mikie]

It's interesting in light of this discussion and others like it to remember there was talk of Don Was and Todd Rundgren being involved in a possible Smile CD-Rom release in the mid-90's which would have collected all the Smile tracks and let fans have a go at sequencing it on their own. It was a very forward-thinking approach which pre-dated a lot of similar projects that put the control in the hands of the fans, but their timing both in the history of the band and Brian and the technology available was a bit too early for anything to happen.

Reminds me of the nice "Project SMiLE" interactive CD-ROM that was floating around fan circles a few years ago.

[Andrew G. Doe]

It's interesting in light of this discussion and others like it to remember there was talk of Don Was and Todd Rundgren being involved in a possible Smile CD-Rom release in the mid-90's which would have collected all the Smile tracks and let fans have a go at sequencing it on their own. It was a very forward-thinking approach which pre-dated a lot of similar projects that put the control in the hands of the fans, but their timing both in the history of the band and Brian and the technology available was a bit too early for anything to happen.

I've not checked this, am working from memory and thus stand to be corrected, but my recollection of that is that it was nothing more than Was saying it'd be a nice idea, like the TR-i stuff, and that was the end of it.

[seanmurd]

Why do people feel they know better than Mark Linett or the Beach Boys how to assemble SMiLE, they are the only people that even know what pieces they have to work with. How can you second guess them when you don't even know what they have to work with. Haven't even heard what they are doing yet.

For me, having my own SMiLE comp has nothing to do with second-guessing Brian, or Mark and Alan, and it's not about "knowing better" either. But SMiLE has been "public domain" for so long that the fans have kind of taken ownership of it. SMiLE has become a very personal, and individual, experience -- not about being "right" but about how you like to listen to it. I can't wait to hear how they assemble and sequence Disc One, and I expect to like it and listen to it -- but if it also inspires me to tinker with my own SMiLE comp (which hasn't changed in a decade), that just adds to the fun.

[guitarfool2002]

It's interesting in light of this discussion and others like it to remember there was talk of Don Was and Todd Rundgren being involved in a possible Smile CD-Rom release in the mid-90's which would have collected all the Smile tracks and let fans have a go at sequencing it on their own. It was a very forward-thinking approach which pre-dated a lot of similar projects that put the control in the hands of the fans, but their timing both in the history of the band and Brian and the technology available was a bit too early for anything to happen.

I've not checked this, am working from memory and thus stand to be corrected, but my recollection of that is that it was nothing more than Was saying it'd be a nice idea, like the TR-i stuff, and that was the end of it.

It was in Pulse magazine, the Brian/Van Dyke cover story issue, November 1995. The Don Was interview appeared as a sidebar to the main article, and Domenic Priore also had a Smile history sidebar as well.

The Was sidebar said that Todd Rundgren and Don Was were encouraging Brian to put the 36-odd hours of Smile tapes onto CD-ROM. That was the only mention of the CD-rom idea.

Was at that time was working as the Beach Boys and Brian's producer-of-the-moment, so I might weigh something more heavily if he were saying it at the same time he was charged with recording new material and had the documentary out there as well - at that time he had Brian's ear but obviously we don't know how far that idea went in the pipeline. That is the only appearance of that CD-rom news that I can recall too, apart from news of a "Smile Era" box set before this.

[guitarfool2002]

It's interesting in light of this discussion and others like it to remember there was talk of Don Was and Todd Rundgren being involved in a possible Smile CD-Rom release in the mid-90's which would have collected all the Smile tracks and let fans have a go at sequencing it on their own. It was a very forward-thinking approach which pre-dated a lot of similar projects that put the control in the hands of the fans, but their timing both in the history of the band and Brian and the technology available was a bit too early for anything to happen.

Reminds me of the nice "Project SMiLE" interactive CD-ROM that was floating around fan circles a few years ago.

Exactly! Imagine that with the Smile tapes in higher quality direct from the vaults...an awesome possibility.

[Mikie]

Yeah, somebody could take all the tracks from the upcoming Smile box (the best quality versions available) and do the same thing. If they're not happy with the sequence, then do a little cut and paste and make their own damn SMiLE!

[guitarfool2002]

Yeah, somebody could take all the tracks from the upcoming Smile box (the best quality versions available) and do the same thing. If they're not happy with the sequence, then ut and paste and make their own damn SMiLE!

It's worth noting the Was-Rundgren CD-rom potentially had 36 hours of Smile sessions to play with...36 hours! 

[Curtis Leon]

It's interesting in light of this discussion and others like it to remember there was talk of Don Was and Todd Rundgren being involved in a possible Smile CD-Rom release in the mid-90's which would have collected all the Smile tracks and let fans have a go at sequencing it on their own. It was a very forward-thinking approach which pre-dated a lot of similar projects that put the control in the hands of the fans, but their timing both in the history of the band and Brian and the technology available was a bit too early for anything to happen.

Reminds me of the nice "Project SMiLE" interactive CD-ROM that was floating around fan circles a few years ago.

I actually still have that CD. Wonderful thing, even if a bit outdated nowadays.

[roll plymouth rock]

It's interesting in light of this discussion and others like it to remember there was talk of Don Was and Todd Rundgren being involved in a possible Smile CD-Rom release in the mid-90's which would have collected all the Smile tracks and let fans have a go at sequencing it on their own. It was a very forward-thinking approach which pre-dated a lot of similar projects that put the control in the hands of the fans, but their timing both in the history of the band and Brian and the technology available was a bit too early for anything to happen.

I've not checked this, am working from memory and thus stand to be corrected, but my recollection of that is that it was nothing more than Was saying it'd be a nice idea, like the TR-i stuff, and that was the end of it.

My friend spoke to Todd himself about this a few years ago and he said that he had put together the program/cd-rom (likely using already existing TR-i infrastructure) for the Smile thing then the BB/BW people decided against the idea. But he did say he listened to it that way personally....I guess the conversation started because my friend had asked if he had ever compiled a Smile edit not knowing about this project.

[Andrew G. Doe]

It's interesting in light of this discussion and others like it to remember there was talk of Don Was and Todd Rundgren being involved in a possible Smile CD-Rom release in the mid-90's which would have collected all the Smile tracks and let fans have a go at sequencing it on their own. It was a very forward-thinking approach which pre-dated a lot of similar projects that put the control in the hands of the fans, but their timing both in the history of the band and Brian and the technology available was a bit too early for anything to happen.

I've not checked this, am working from memory and thus stand to be corrected, but my recollection of that is that it was nothing more than Was saying it'd be a nice idea, like the TR-i stuff, and that was the end of it.

My friend spoke to Todd himself about this a few years ago and he said that he had put together the program/cd-rom (likely using already existing TR-i infrastructure) for the Smile thing then the BB/BW people decided against the idea. But he did say he listened to it that way personally....I guess the conversation started because my friend had asked if he had ever compiled a Smile edit not knowing about this project.

Thanks for that - I stand corrected.

[A Million Units In Jan!]

Thanks for that - I stand corrected.

Holy sh*t-the end of the world really MUST be coming! 

[Jason]

RAPTURE!

[Wrightfan]

RAPTURE!

Can't wait for Fab Five Freddie...

[Amazing Larry]

I'm kinda excited for the rapture. Jesus seams like a cool cat.

[Micha]

Yeah, but at 40 mins. there would be no need to fill 3 sides of an LP. I would think it's possible that we get 50+ mins. Averaging 18 mins a side we're talking 54 minutes.

BWPS runs just over 45 minutes, so technically even that would fit on one LP. I can't imagine that we get anything longer than that on disc 1.

[buddhahat]

This from a Mr. Rom92 at the Hoffman board re: the artwork:

"In speaking with Frank Holmes, i know even he is unsure of its inclusion - but he is hopeful.
Please be aware that he isn't quite at liberty to discuss these matters, so please don't go flooding him with messages about the artwork's inclusion by the dozens... for the sake of the project, and also just out of sheer courtesy."

So perhaps the original artwork is not 'in the bag' just yet, although from VDP's interviews I was under the impression it was.

[The Shift]

VDP's using Frank art on one of the 45s he's releasing soon -  could that be what he was referring to?  Haven't seen/heard (or taken in) that ref in the interview.

[drbeachboy]

Yeah, but at 40 mins. there would be no need to fill 3 sides of an LP. I would think it's possible that we get 50+ mins. Averaging 18 mins a side we're talking 54 minutes.

BWPS runs just over 45 minutes, so technically even that would fit on one LP. I can't imagine that we get anything longer than that on disc 1.

The other thing is that Movement 2 is just under 11 minutes, but with 3 movements, it needed it's own album side.

[Roger Ryan]

Yeah, but at 40 mins. there would be no need to fill 3 sides of an LP. I would think it's possible that we get 50+ mins. Averaging 18 mins a side we're talking 54 minutes.

BWPS runs just over 45 minutes, so technically even that would fit on one LP. I can't imagine that we get anything longer than that on disc 1.

The other thing is that Movement 2 is just under 11 minutes, but with 3 movements, it needed it's own album side.

Also, it's more common practice these days to put a lot less material on a side of vinyl to ensure better fidelity for those who treasure the format. U2's most recent vinyl issue of THE JOSHUA TREE came out as a double LP with only three tracks (or less) per side.

[guitarfool2002]

Yeah, but at 40 mins. there would be no need to fill 3 sides of an LP. I would think it's possible that we get 50+ mins. Averaging 18 mins a side we're talking 54 minutes.

BWPS runs just over 45 minutes, so technically even that would fit on one LP. I can't imagine that we get anything longer than that on disc 1.

The other thing is that Movement 2 is just under 11 minutes, but with 3 movements, it needed it's own album side.

Also, it's more common practice these days to put a lot less material on a side of vinyl to ensure better fidelity for those who treasure the format. U2's most recent vinyl issue of THE JOSHUA TREE came out as a double LP with only three tracks (or less) per side.

I had not heard of this until now. That's an album I remember as one of the last "new release" vinyls people around me were buying before cassettes and CD's took over in force among us. The configuration sounds a bit extreme but I understand the sonic reasons behind it: Does it cost significantly more and are people buying it in that format?

[juggler]

VDP's using Frank art on one of the 45s he's releasing soon -  could that be what he was referring to?  Haven't seen/heard (or taken in) that ref in the interview.

No, VDP was talking about the Smile box, not his 45s.  The statement was in his interview with Record Collector magazine.

"I'm delighted it's finally coming out. I haven't seen the finished product, but I've been told it's beautiful, that as much thought as gone into it as there is the creation of a Fabergé egg. I understand it exploits the work of Frank Holmes [ an artist who also contributes to one of Parks forthcoming sleeves] who did the first SMiLE cover. I first met him in 1962, and I've always admired him. Frank's work deserves triangulated equality with Brian's and mine on SMiLE, that is a fact so I am delighted that this man is finally going to be honoured at long last. He's never been a rich man; he had to work as an usher at a theater so he could afford to go and see Brian perform SMiLE  a few years ago. That is reprehensible."


I think that it's a pretty safe bet that the prototype/mock-up box that VDP and others (e.g., the Record Store Day team) have apparently seen DOES use the Holmes art.
The Capitol art department may have (and indeed probably has) designed packaging with the Holmes art even before everything is worked out legally (though obviously it would be awesome if it's a done deal).

[Roger Ryan]

Yeah, but at 40 mins. there would be no need to fill 3 sides of an LP. I would think it's possible that we get 50+ mins. Averaging 18 mins a side we're talking 54 minutes.

BWPS runs just over 45 minutes, so technically even that would fit on one LP. I can't imagine that we get anything longer than that on disc 1.

The other thing is that Movement 2 is just under 11 minutes, but with 3 movements, it needed it's own album side.

Also, it's more common practice these days to put a lot less material on a side of vinyl to ensure better fidelity for those who treasure the format. U2's most recent vinyl issue of THE JOSHUA TREE came out as a double LP with only three tracks (or less) per side.

I had not heard of this until now. That's an album I remember as one of the last "new release" vinyls people around me were buying before cassettes and CD's took over in force among us. The configuration sounds a bit extreme but I understand the sonic reasons behind it: Does it cost significantly more and are people buying it in that format?

I am referring to the deluxe 180 gram vinyl edition which now retails on Amazon for $33.99. Personally, I wouldn't think the sound quality improvement would warrant paying three times what you would pay for the CD version, but I guess it has value as a collectible. I have no idea what the sales have been like, but I've seen several copies (along with other double LP issues from other artists) in chain stores that don't normally cater to the collector crowd, so there must be some interest.

[Andrew G. Doe]

VDP's using Frank art on one of the 45s he's releasing soon -  could that be what he was referring to?  Haven't seen/heard (or taken in) that ref in the interview.

No, VDP was talking about the Smile box, not his 45s.  The statement was in his interview with Record Collector magazine.

"I'm delighted it's finally coming out. I haven't seen the finished product, but I've been told it's beautiful, that as much thought as gone into it as there is the creation of a Fabergé egg. I understand it exploits the work of Frank Holmes [ an artist who also contributes to one of Parks forthcoming sleeves] who did the first SMiLE cover. I first met him in 1962, and I've always admired him. Frank's work deserves triangulated equality with Brian's and mine on SMiLE, that is a fact so I am delighted that this man is finally going to be honoured at long last. He's never been a rich man; he had to work as an usher at a theater so he could afford to go and see Brian perform SMiLE  a few years ago. That is reprehensible."


I think that it's a pretty safe bet that the prototype/mock-up box that VDP and others (e.g., the Record Store Day team) have apparently seen DOES use the Holmes art.
The Capitol art department may have (and indeed probably has) designed packaging with the Holmes art even before everything is worked out legally (though obviously it would be awesome if it's a done deal).

Can't help but notice he's being equivocal in his phrasing: "I haven't seen the finished product, but I've been told it's beautiful, that as much thought as gone into it as there is the creation of a Fabergé egg. I understand it exploits the work of Frank Holmes...". Clearly, when that interview was conducted, he'd seen exactly diddly.

[desmondo]

VDP's using Frank art on one of the 45s he's releasing soon -  could that be what he was referring to?  Haven't seen/heard (or taken in) that ref in the interview.

No, VDP was talking about the Smile box, not his 45s.  The statement was in his interview with Record Collector magazine.

"I'm delighted it's finally coming out. I haven't seen the finished product, but I've been told it's beautiful, that as much thought as gone into it as there is the creation of a Fabergé egg. I understand it exploits the work of Frank Holmes [ an artist who also contributes to one of Parks forthcoming sleeves] who did the first SMiLE cover. I first met him in 1962, and I've always admired him. Frank's work deserves triangulated equality with Brian's and mine on SMiLE, that is a fact so I am delighted that this man is finally going to be honoured at long last. He's never been a rich man; he had to work as an usher at a theater so he could afford to go and see Brian perform SMiLE  a few years ago. That is reprehensible."


I think that it's a pretty safe bet that the prototype/mock-up box that VDP and others (e.g., the Record Store Day team) have apparently seen DOES use the Holmes art.
The Capitol art department may have (and indeed probably has) designed packaging with the Holmes art even before everything is worked out legally (though obviously it would be awesome if it's a done deal).

Can't help but notice he's being equivocal in his phrasing: "I haven't seen the finished product, but I've been told it's beautiful, that as much thought as gone into it as there is the creation of a Fabergé egg. I understand it exploits the work of Frank Holmes...". Clearly, when that interview was conducted, he'd seen exactly diddly.

But then went on to see the mock-up at a later date