Beach Boys live in '61-62 without instruments?

[adamghost]

Hi all...interesting tidbit to put out there.  As a lot of you know I play with the Standells.  Yesterday in rehearsal I mentioned I was going to Phoenix to do a Beach Boys tribute band gig and Larry Tamblyn shared an anecdote of backing the Beach Boys -- on guitar no less -- at a very early gig.  He claimed that none of the band played an instrument (just stood and sang) save Dennis, who had a rudimentary drum kit.  He mentioned the venue as well...something Gardens IIRC.

I was intrigued by this because this doesn't jibe with any early history I'm aware of, but his memory was very specific.  And he was around and playing at the critical time.  Any thoughts on this?

[bgas]

Hi all...interesting tidbit to put out there.  As a lot of you know I play with the Standells.  Yesterday in rehearsal I mentioned I was going to Phoenix to do a Beach Boys tribute band gig and Larry Tamblyn shared an anecdote of backing the Beach Boys -- on guitar no less -- at a very early gig.  He claimed that none of the band played an instrument (just stood and sang) save Dennis, who had a rudimentary drum kit.  He mentioned the venue as well...something Gardens IIRC.

I was intrigued by this because this doesn't jibe with any early history I'm aware of, but his memory was very specific.  And he was around and playing at the critical time.  Any thoughts on this?

I'm certain Ian would like to speak with Larry to get more details of the gig in question. It could be one of their gigs at Rainbow Gardens in Pomona; would be cool for him to cough up more details!  Does he have any photos? 

[guitarfool2002]

Wouldn't Carl by this time in the band's history have had his own guitar and most likely would have played it at a show? The early silent home movies and earliest known video of the band shows them sporting nice Fender equipment and full Gretsch drums. That "One Man's Challenge" film was shot July 1962 showing the Fender/Gretsch gear, and didn't they get the Fender gear around February 1962?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Hi all...interesting tidbit to put out there.  As a lot of you know I play with the Standells.  Yesterday in rehearsal I mentioned I was going to Phoenix to do a Beach Boys tribute band gig and Larry Tamblyn shared an anecdote of backing the Beach Boys -- on guitar no less -- at a very early gig.  He claimed that none of the band played an instrument (just stood and sang) save Dennis, who had a rudimentary drum kit.  He mentioned the venue as well...something Gardens IIRC.

I was intrigued by this because this doesn't jibe with any early history I'm aware of, but his memory was very specific.  And he was around and playing at the critical time.  Any thoughts on this?

The only 1961/2 shows - that we know of - with "Gardens" in the venue name is Rainbow Gardens (a dancehall), Pomona CA on the following 1962 dates:

February 16th - very likely David's first show (and the band's 5th ever recorded gig)
February 17th
March 9th
March 23rd
March 30th

Without wishing to seem disrespectful to your bandmate, Adam, my experience is that memories can fade over the years, possibly the classic example being the much reported 40 date midwest summer tour of 1962... which was actually in 1963. That said, of course it's possible they either didn't bring their instruments (or forgot) and asked The Standells to back them up. The slight fly in this ointment was that The Standells themselves were only formed in 1962. As usual, confusion ensues. 

[adamghost]

No disrespect taken, I always take these things with a grain of salt.  But he was very specific about the memory which gave me pause, and it appears he got the venue right (because I think it was the Rainbow Gardens).

It's quite possible he confused them with another band on the same bill?  But then again, if he actually backed them, you'd think he'd know the difference?

The Standells being formed then isn't really relevant -- Larry said HE backed them up, not the Standells.  Larry was playing and recording pre-Standells...he certainly could have been there. It seems pretty likely he was on the gig in some capacity...I wonder what the format of the show was?  If the BBs were part of a larger bill, they might have been required to use the house band?  Or perhaps were on some specific occasion?  I have no idea.  Or if the BBs got their gear in Feb. '62, is it possible they hadn't bought it yet?  A very intriguing thought.  It might have been that very first gig Larry was at.

[Andrew G. Doe]

No disrespect taken, I always take these things with a grain of salt.  But he was very specific about the memory which gave me pause, and it appears he got the venue right (because I think it was the Rainbow Gardens).

It's quite possible he confused them with another band on the same bill?  But then again, if he actually backed them, you'd think he'd know the difference?

The Standells being formed then isn't really relevant -- Larry said HE backed them up, not the Standells.  Larry was playing and recording pre-Standells...he certainly could have been there.

Oops, my bad.

It seems pretty likely he was on the gig in some capacity...I wonder what the format of the show was?  If the BBs were part of a larger bill, they might have been required to use the house band?  Or perhaps were on some specific occasion?  I have no idea.  Or if the BBs got their gear in Feb. '62, is it possible they hadn't bought it yet?  A very intriguing thought.  It might have been that very first gig Larry was at.

There's a photo from February 10th 1962 showing the band with their instruments - it's the well known one with the guy looking through the window behind them. Here - http://davidleemarks.com/#/photos/4548759649 - top left.

That said, the 'house band' suggestion is a fine one. Here's the venue -



- and from the size I'm guessing it was indeed a multi-act bill.

[bgas]

There's a photo from February 10th 1962 showing the band with their instruments - it's the well known one with the guy looking through the window behind them. Here - http://davidleemarks.com/#/photos/4548759649 - top left.

Hey, is there new info that hasn't hit your( Ian) website?  That pic is dated MARCH 10th, 1962  as far as I know. 

[Andrew G. Doe]

There's a photo from February 10th 1962 showing the band with their instruments - it's the well known one with the guy looking through the window behind them. Here - http://davidleemarks.com/#/photos/4548759649 - top left.

Hey, is there new info that hasn't hit your( Ian) website?  That pic is dated MARCH 10th, 1962  as far as I know.  

OK, that proves it - my eyesight is seriously worse than I though it was. You're correct and I can't even read my own website properly. Phooey.  

Which of course means I got this wrong too:

February 16th - very likely David's first show (and the band's 5th ever recorded gig)
February 17th
March 9th
March 23rd
March 30th.

Try:

February 16th - first show as a four piece after Alan's departure (and the band's 5th ever recorded gig)
February 17th
March 9th - first Rainbow show with David.
March 23rd
March 30th

[guitarfool2002]

The way I understand the gear situation - and I defer to those who have done far more looking into this - Carl had something like a Kay guitar (mid-level), David was renting a Rickenbacker solidbody electric until he got a Fender, and the other equipment was a hodge-podge of similar lower level equipment. The notion of Dennis having a less than complete drum kit would make sense if it can be pegged to a certain date. But as the band became more serious and wanted to compete for the better shows and get away from the acoustic folk leanings of the Al Jardine type, they went to a heavier Fender backline of instruments and amps as shown in the photo on David's website. Looks to be a piggyback Showman or Bassman head and cabinet, a Tweed Bassman combo for bass,  Brian's P-Bass that he's shown playing on the Surfin Safari album, Carl's Strat, etc. The date of the Fender purchase is Feb. 1962, right? It seems they got gigs right after.

Beautiful instruments and amps fresh from the Fender factory, among the best sounding amps ever made. My opinion...

Even if the professional Fender gear had not been delivered yet by the time of the gig in question, the Boys would still have their previous guitars etc to play a show. I'm thinking this gig or show was more of an informal thing where they just got up and played and sang together.

[The Shift]

There's a photo from February 10th 1962 showing the band with their instruments - it's the well known one with the guy looking through the window behind them. Here - http://davidleemarks.com/#/photos/4548759649 - top left.

Hey, is there new info that hasn't hit your( Ian) website?  That pic is dated MARCH 10th, 1962  as far as I know. 

OK, that proves it - my eyesight is seriously worse than I though it was. You're correct and I can't even read my own website properly. Phooey. 

Which of course means I got this wrong too:

February 16th - very likely David's first show (and the band's 5th ever recorded gig)
February 17th
March 9th
March 23rd
March 30th.

Try:

February 16th - first show as a four piece after Alan's departure (and the band's 5th ever recorded gig)
February 17th
March 9th - first Rainbow show with David.
March 23rd
March 30th

Is it therefore possible that Adam's pal didn't so much back the BBs as fill in for Al for one night, before David joined on a permanent basis?

[guitarfool2002]

Is it therefore possible that Adam's pal didn't so much back the BBs as fill in for Al for one night, before David joined on a permanent basis?

He seemed pretty specific in remembering that no one except Dennis had an instrument to play, so even if he filled in for Al during the transition that doesn't explain why Carl at least wouldn't have his guitar at the show, or Brian, or whoever else.

[guitarfool2002]

[Jon Stebbins]

if this guy's recollection is from one of the first four or five gigs, which is really all there were pre-Dave, then I would not be surprised if his recollection is at least partially correct. I've talked to Al about this, and by no means is his memory solid, but sometimes if you ask the right questions and the right follow-ups you can find some truth. Al told me Brian didn't play any instrument at the first few live gigs. He stood at the microphone with Mike. So right there you've got two BB's, no instruments. Brian probably didn't pick up the bass until Al left, even though there is the anecdotal comment from Brian that he bought a bass for the BB's second gig, it could have easily not been until the 4th or 5th gig. Al claims he lugged the standup to those early gigs and it was a bitch. No way you'd have two bass players. But what if lugging the giant bass became too inconvenient, then you'd potentially have three BB's (Mike, Brian and Al) with no instruments. The fact that Adam's friend says Dennis had a "rudimentary" drum kit falls in line with my research, because Dennis pieced his first kit together bit by bit. It wasn't until after Dave was in the band that he had all the pieces he wanted. So maybe during this gig Dennis has his Gretch bass drum and a snare, and one cymbal, or something, not yet possessing the full kit. And maybe Mike, Brian and Al stood out front and sang, with just Carl on guitar. Now if an issue arose with the old Kay guitar, who knows, maybe Carl was just a singer that night too. It easily could have happened because the BB's were barely a band at those first gigs. They were not thinking of themselves as anything more than a vocal group. Al's words..."I was resisting that trend to electric, I just wasn't enthusiastic about it. And as soon as i left they were able to bring that dimension up.They went to Fender equipment and David was already trained on that. It was Carl and Dave who brought that electric guitar drive into the band, and because of that Brian was able to expand a little bit." Again, it might be an only partially correct memory from Larry...but it would not surprise me at all if there was a degree of truth in what he told Adam.

[guitarfool2002]

Very interesting: I'm also reading into the decision to buy Fender equipment and get away from the folk sounds...it happened after Al left, according to Al, and he didn't want to "go electric" before he left. Was Al's role in the band that powerful at that time where he could sway the decision to switch to Fender gear to the point where they changed both the gear and their sound after he left?

Another issue for the musicians reading these posts: Personally, would you take a public, paid gig if your band didn't have instruments to play? Chances are the band would suck if they showed up with half a drum set and no guitars, unless you're doing a capella...but what are the chances of that? I'm just trying to work out the details where the Beach Boys show up for a gig and they have no gear except a few drums.

[adamghost]

The picture of the ballroom is interesting, because it's more or less exactly how I pictured it based on how Larry described the gig.  It looks like they had a set orchestra at the place with their own stands.  if Larry was a house guitarist, and it was a multi-act bill, it's easy to sketch out a scenario where the BBs just showed up and sang.  He didn't specifically say so, but I got the impression that it wasn't so much that he was backing the BBs as a member, but that he was in the orchestra that night and the BBs were one of the people he backed up.

If so, this actually might be filling in a blank spot in the band's history.  Does anyone have a specific question or two I should ask him?  I will have to wait for the right moment, since it's not exactly Larry's biggest field of interest...but I can probably find out more about the gig if I time the questions correctly.

[Andrew G. Doe]

The picture of the ballroom is interesting, because it's more or less exactly how I pictured it based on how Larry described the gig.  It looks like they had a set orchestra at the place with their own stands.  if Larry was a house guitarist, and it was a multi-act bill, it's easy to sketch out a scenario where the BBs just showed up and sang.  He didn't specifically say so, but I got the impression that it wasn't so much that he was backing the BBs as a member, but that he was in the orchestra that night and the BBs were one of the people he backed up.

If so, this actually might be filling in a blank spot in the band's history.  Does anyone have a specific question or two I should ask him?  I will have to wait for the right moment, since it's not exactly Larry's biggest field of interest...but I can probably find out more about the gig if I time the questions correctly.

Sure - ask him how many Beach Boys there were, if you would. If he says 4, that dates it to the second half of February/first week of March. Also, although this is a longshot, if he recalls if they were wearing the check jackets.

[Jon Stebbins]

The BB's sets were only a few songs at these first several gigs. It's not much of a stretch to think of them acting as a vocal group and not a band. You have to let go of all the poorly researched myths we've been bombarded with to be able to imagine this scenario is at least a possibility. There is no hard evidence of BB's MK1 setting up and playing as a "band", there are no photos...which seems weird to me. We really don't KNOW what the set up was. All we can do is guess, and sift through the anecdotes of the survivors.

[Andrew G. Doe]

The BB's sets were only a few songs at these first several gigs. It's not much of a stretch to think of them acting as a vocal group and not a band. You have to let go of all the poorly researched myths we've been bombarded with to be able to imagine this scenario is at least a possibility. There is no hard evidence of BB's MK1 setting up and playing as a "band", there are no photos...which seems weird to me. We really don't KNOW what the set up was. All we can do is guess, and sift through the anecdotes of the survivors.

Excellent point. None of the early promo shots - that is, before the back cover pics of Surfin' Safari - show the band with instruments. We know David, Carl & Alan had at least basic guitars, otherwise...

That said, the instrumentation for the 2nd Morgan session (2/8/62) had clearly improved on the string bass/snare/acoustic guitar (?) of the "Surfin'" session. Sounds like proper electric guitars and a drum kit (brushes certainly) - maybe a second rental ?

We know for sure they had their own instruments by March 9th.

[guitarfool2002]

The BB's sets were only a few songs at these first several gigs. It's not much of a stretch to think of them acting as a vocal group and not a band. You have to let go of all the poorly researched myths we've been bombarded with to be able to imagine this scenario is at least a possibility. There is no hard evidence of BB's MK1 setting up and playing as a "band", there are no photos...which seems weird to me. We really don't KNOW what the set up was. All we can do is guess, and sift through the anecdotes of the survivors.

I'm also basing my questions on what would be practical for a band, and absolutely the idea is valid that the Beach Boys at some point in time acted as a vocal-only group and would sing songs with a backing house band or other musicians. However, has this possibility ever been raised in any of the research? And if that were the case, why bring Denny's drums when by many accounts he was the least skilled at his instrument *at that time*, if we take late-61 early-62 as an approximate time frame? A house drummer could cover the parts.

Altogether this could be a very fascinating piece of the puzzle to add to the history of the band in their early stages. One of the keys seems to be if Al were there, if David were there, or if neither were there. Neither would make the story most plausible, alongside the question of how many band members were there at that gig.

[guitarfool2002]

Excellent point. None of the early promo shots - that is, before the back cover pics of Surfin' Safari - show the band with instruments. We know David, Carl & Alan had at least basic guitars, otherwise...

That said, the instrumentation for the 2nd Morgan session (2/8/62) had clearly improved on the string bass/snare/acoustic guitar (?) of the "Surfin'" session. Sounds like proper electric guitars and a drum kit (brushes certainly) - maybe a second rental ?

If by proper electric guitars you could mean "Fender", that would fit perfectly with the report of them buying their Fender gear which they'd be photographed with for the next year or so in or around February 1962. Carl and David with Strats, Brian with P-Bass, and Fender amps. Makes a huge sonic difference.

[OBLiO]

The Mixtures was a happening band in SoCal back in the early 60's and I remember hearing about them from some of the older musicians I knew and they are talked about in a book by Matt Garcia called "A World of it's Own" - found an excerpt from the book about El Monte
http://www.elmontelegionstadium.com/world_of_its_own.PDF

The Mixtures were the house band at Rainbow Gardens and recorded their LP there with Wally Heider. Feb 12, 1962. According to Mark Guerrero's site, Larry Tamblyn played guitar on "Turkey Time"... http://www.markguerrero.com/31.php

That book "World of it's Own" is interesting in itself... gets into the cultural aspects of Los Angeles. Mark Guerrero reviews the book here: http://www.markguerrero.com/misc_36.php
sums it up.

It could have been a thing where Dennis brought his drums because he didn't want to play the other guy's kit or the other guy didn't want him to play his kit... that happens all the time. It could have been just guitar and drums backing the vocals... hard to say the exact set-up but the Mixtures were the happening back-up band at the time in the area.

Forgot to mention the name of the Mixtures record: "Stompin' At the Rainbow."

[bgas]

The Mixtures was a happening band in SoCal back in the early 60's and I remember hearing about them from some of the older musicians I knew and they are talked about in a book by Matt Garcia called "A World of it's Own" - found an excerpt from the book about El Monte
http://www.elmontelegionstadium.com/world_of_its_own.PDF

The Mixtures were the house band at Rainbow Gardens and recorded their LP there with Wally Heider. Feb 12, 1962. According to Mark Guerrero's site, Larry Tamblyn played guitar on "Turkey Time"... http://www.markguerrero.com/31.php

That book "World of it's Own" is interesting in itself... gets into the cultural aspects of Los Angeles. Mark Guerrero reviews the book here: http://www.markguerrero.com/misc_36.php
sums it up.

It could have been a thing where Dennis brought his drums because he didn't want to play the other guy's kit or the other guy didn't want him to play his kit... that happens all the time. It could have been just guitar and drums backing the vocals... hard to say the exact set-up but the Mixtures were the happening back-up band at the time in the area.

Forgot to mention the name of the Mixtures record: "Stompin' At the Rainbow."

If only the members of the Mixtures had BBs memories!  But the ones I've talked to don't; and some have gone as far as saying they didn't even like the BBs/their type of music and had no interest in them at all.  ( which is a good reason not to remember)
Mark Guerrero is a GREAT GUY! 

As to Dennis, I'd say it could be that he didn't like singing that much, didn't want to be forced into that position, and so he brought what kit he had, so he could stay in the background. 

[Mikie]

Just as an aside, when I went up to Berkeley a couple of weeks ago to see Al, I wore my Beach Boys Pendleton t-shirt. Al commented on it and he said he gave Dave his Pendleton shirt. I assume that was back in early '62 when he left the band.

[OBLiO]

If only the members of the Mixtures had BBs memories!  But the ones I've talked to don't; and some have gone as far as saying they didn't even like the BBs/their type of music and had no interest in them at all.  ( which is a good reason not to remember)
Mark Guerrero is a GREAT GUY! 

I don't know if I ever met Mark, but it is possible... I have read that book though and his site came up when I ran a search to help figure this out, hence the links... it's in the book though about the kids not wanting to hear surf music there. But a gig is a gig and they were getting in on that circuit... more than likely as a vocal group... could be that if bands didn't want to back them up, they could have just said "look we need to play our own instruments" to keep on gigging and not worry about getting a band to back them up.

[Rocker]

Re: The instruments-thing:
First, yes, I could see the BBs perform as a vocals only group. They probably sang Surfin' and then some standards like Their Hearts Were....,etc. maybe even one of Murry's tunes (just speculation). Of course this would not be at an event for teenagers, but I don't think they played only that kind of stuff
But did anyone ever think about the easiest answer? Maybe a string on Carl's guitar broke and he didn't have any new ones with him. Jon explained why Brian and Al might not have had their gear with them