Van Dyke Parks interview in the latest Record Collector

[Chocolate Shake Man]

If known by Pet Sounds, then why did it not sell well?

I don't know for sure but I would be very surprised if Pet Sounds isn't the biggest selling non-compilation Beach Boys album. Maybe someone can confirm this.

People may know now by Pet Sounds, but not then.

So what are you saying? That you are now changing your claim to say that the Beach Boys were known for their hits?

Mike said writing songs, which include lyrics.

Brian wasn't writing lyrics and he was talking about Brian.

He has always knocked the lyrics, but I've also heard him praise the music and say how dynamic it was, etc.

He said that Heroes and Villains was dynamic, probably because it did well in the charts. I haven't heard him comment about the music other than what he said above about not resonating with it, and it not making sense to him.

I'm sure he did not like everything Brian wrote for Smile, but on the whole, I think Mike respected Brian as a composer.

He didn't respect him enough to avoid implying that The Beach Boys succeeded in spite of Brian Wilson.

As for the hit records, I thought we were talking GV or Smile era onward, not Pet Sounds.

You were the one who brought up the phrase about Brian departing from the formula, which calls to mind Mike Love's supposed line from the Pet Sounds era. Love felt that Wilson was straying from the formula well before GV and Smile.

Also, I wasn't talking #1's, but overall Top 40. Sure they had a few through 69, but in the US it would be 1976 and "It's OK" before they scored another Top 40 hit.

I'm not sure on your point here. Are you saying that Mike wanted Brian to be writing songs like "Fun, Fun, Fun" and "I Get Around" in 1969 and 1970? If he did (and I doubt it), then Love would really have absolutely no clue about how to go about making a hit record.

As to my "riding coatails" remark, you might think things work your way, but in the real world people have opinions and feelings. If the band members had concerns, I'm sure they were expressed, coatails or not.

Right and some "opinions and feelings" are valid and some are not. Thus, anybody who rides on the coattails of someone else has zero right to complain about where that person decides to go next. If Mike Love felt differently, then he's despicable.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I feel lit simply pays to remember: just out of plain consideration, that there are people out there, actual Beach Boys fans (misguided or not) who think Mike is a talented person, like his singing, his lyrics, his vibe, his style as a frontman, and somehow contribute these feelings to their overall appreciation of The Beach Boys as a group made up of individuals. Brian get's his due and will continue to get his due: no one can change that. But there are fans out there who actually like Mike. It's possible and real. Therefore the stale old "Mike is evil" bullmerda can be a bit insulting to these silly fans.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

If known by Pet Sounds, then why did it not sell well?

I don't know for sure but I would be very surprised if Pet Sounds isn't the biggest selling non-compilation Beach Boys album. Maybe someone can confirm this.

People may know now by Pet Sounds, but not then.

So what are you saying? That you are now changing your claim to say that the Beach Boys were known for their hits?

Mike said writing songs, which include lyrics.

Brian wasn't writing lyrics and he was talking about Brian.

He has always knocked the lyrics, but I've also heard him praise the music and say how dynamic it was, etc.

He said that Heroes and Villains was dynamic, probably because it did well in the charts. I haven't heard him comment about the music other than what he said above about not resonating with it, and it not making sense to him.

I'm sure he did not like everything Brian wrote for Smile, but on the whole, I think Mike respected Brian as a composer.

He didn't respect him enough to avoid implying that The Beach Boys succeeded in spite of Brian Wilson.

As for the hit records, I thought we were talking GV or Smile era onward, not Pet Sounds.

You were the one who brought up the phrase about Brian departing from the formula, which calls to mind Mike Love's supposed line from the Pet Sounds era. Love felt that Wilson was straying from the formula well before GV and Smile.

Also, I wasn't talking #1's, but overall Top 40. Sure they had a few through 69, but in the US it would be 1976 and "It's OK" before they scored another Top 40 hit.

I'm not sure on your point here. Are you saying that Mike wanted Brian to be writing songs like "Fun, Fun, Fun" and "I Get Around" in 1969 and 1970? If he did (and I doubt it), then Love would really have absolutely no clue about how to go about making a hit record.

As to my "riding coatails" remark, you might think things work your way, but in the real world people have opinions and feelings. If the band members had concerns, I'm sure they were expressed, coatails or not.

Right and some "opinions and feelings" are valid and some are not. Thus, anybody who rides on the coattails of someone else has zero right to complain about where that person decides to go next. If Mike Love felt differently, then he's despicable.

[/color]

I'm sorry, but NO ONE in the Beach Boys was riding Brian's coattails. Especially not the guy who regularly wrote with the guy and who founded the damn band and was pretty much the co-lead singer in the band and who busted his ass as a live performer as a part of The Beach Boys.

Like I said before, there is no reasoning with you people.

[Mahalo]

He has always knocked the lyrics, but I've also heard him praise the music and say how dynamic it was, etc.

He said that Heroes and Villains was dynamic, probably because it did well in the charts. I haven't heard him comment about the music other than what he said above about not resonating with it, and it not making sense to him.

...or because it is a dynamic sounding record regardless of it's charting.

I'm not sure on your point here. Are you saying that Mike wanted Brian to be writing songs like "Fun, Fun, Fun" and "I Get Around" in 1969 and 1970? If he did (and I doubt it), then Love would really have absolutely no clue about how to go about making a hit record.

Do It Again is pretty awesome...

Also, let's not forget Mike's participation in Smiley Smile...

[Runaways]

if that's the case, then Smile was a feather in the wind that had no chance from the get-go

What a massive assumption.  Also just ignoring everything about Brian when you make it. 

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Myke haters are THE experts in assumptions, so I stand corrected

[Runaways]

I'm sorry, but NO ONE in the Beach Boys was riding Brian's coattails. Especially not the guy who regularly wrote with the guy and who founded the damn band and was pretty much the co-lead singer in the band and who busted his ass as a live performer as a part of The Beach Boys.

Like I said before, there is no reasoning with you people.

you people??? lol.  was it dennis who used to get angry saying "we wouldn't even be here without brian" or something?  

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Why do you Myke haters act like Brian is always being attacked or de-valued or unappreciated. Here we have a guy who's pretty much been cast in stone as THE greatest composer of the 20th century and all you can do is cry and cry and attack and insult when someone feebly tries to compliment or defend Myke?

Sore winners a little?

[Mahalo]

Brian also said that he needed their voices...that BB blend...

[Runaways]

Why do you Myke haters act like Brian is always being attacked or de-valued or unappreciated. Here we have a guy who's pretty much been cast in stone as THE greatest composer of the 20th century and all you can do is cry and cry and attack and insult when someone feebly tries to compliment or defend Myke?

Sore winners a little?

What are you talking about?  I don't think I'm a mike hater, i think he's a jerk.  I don't hate the guy, why would i hate him, I don't know him.  Good for him for being able to go out and tour like he does.  I've said a few times that he wrote some great lyrics, and that his bass voice was one of the more important parts of the band.  but why do you lump everything together?  A lot of your posts have a black and white viewpoint.  

in regards to mike's voice, i think it's pretty great up till 15 big ones.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Why do you Myke haters act like Brian is always being attacked or de-valued or unappreciated. Here we have a guy who's pretty much been cast in stone as THE greatest composer of the 20th century and all you can do is cry and cry and attack and insult when someone feebly tries to compliment or defend Myke?

Sore winners a little?

What are you talking about?  I don't think I'm a mike hater, i think he's a jerk.  I don't hate the guy, why would i hate him, I don't know him.  Good for him for being able to go out and tour like he does.  I've said a few times that he wrote some great lyrics, and that his bass voice was one of the more important parts of the band.  but why do you lump everything together?  A lot of your posts have a black and white viewpoint.  

in regards to mike's voice, i think it's pretty great up till 15 big ones.

Well, I do try to not be so black and white, so thank you for pointing that out: I just dig what Mike did for the band and can't help but defend him

and we're on the same page with his voice after 15 Big Ones, so we can raise our glasses to that at least 

[Runaways]

Why do you Myke haters act like Brian is always being attacked or de-valued or unappreciated. Here we have a guy who's pretty much been cast in stone as THE greatest composer of the 20th century and all you can do is cry and cry and attack and insult when someone feebly tries to compliment or defend Myke?

Sore winners a little?

What are you talking about?  I don't think I'm a mike hater, i think he's a jerk.  I don't hate the guy, why would i hate him, I don't know him.  Good for him for being able to go out and tour like he does.  I've said a few times that he wrote some great lyrics, and that his bass voice was one of the more important parts of the band.  but why do you lump everything together?  A lot of your posts have a black and white viewpoint.  

in regards to mike's voice, i think it's pretty great up till 15 big ones.

Well, I do try to not be so black and white, so thank you for pointing that out: I just dig what Mike did for the band and can't help but defend him

and we're on the same page with his voice after 15 Big Ones, so we can raise our glasses to that at least 

*here here*

[Cam Mott]

he talks a big game but has little to back it up and what is worse is that he actively attempts to take credit from those who are much more deserving. I really don't know how anybody could support such behaviour.

Really, I would say Mike's history and legacy puts him up near the top among Pop songwriters and performers. How many Pop artists having a better record based on performance not on our personal opinions? Not many I'll bet a donut.

[willy]

I hope no-one from BRI reads this thread as they may well consider pulling the plug if this is how certain fans go on.

[A Million Units In Jan!]

obviously mike didn't kill smile, but obviously his unwillingness (and the others, mike had more clout) to go with brian didn't exactly make it easy.   

Yes.

I'll ask again: Is it a coincidence that the Smile project which had been running fairly smoothly began to fall apart almost immediately after the December vocal sessions?

He was unwilling, yet he sang the lyrics. And he did a damn fine job, to boot.
I think the reason it fell apart was because from that point on, as Anderle has said, they had to have a single out. So all of his effort had to go into the single. And by this point, he was already beginning to be unhappy with the stuff he was recording. He said it himself, the quote about 'I'm working harder than ever and am still not satisfied', or something to that effect.

[Jason]

I hope no-one from BRI reads this thread as they may well consider pulling the plug if this is how certain fans go on.

BIG BROTHER BRI IS WATCHING YOU.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

We've probably scared BRI out of lots of product 

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Dysfunctional band with dysfunctional fans...no wonder people always try to find common ground between the Beach Boys and the Beatles. I mean, the Beatles are all a bunch of jyet one idiot posts a stupid remark on the bloobored that almost, essentially, ended Brian's career.

What happened there?

I believe it was in response to Live at the Roxy; some guy went completely apeshit on the forum and basically stated that Brian should just retire. Brian apparently caught wind of this and, it's rumored, almost DID retire in the aftermath.

It wasn't the Roxy album, it was later. No rumor, either...actually happened.

[18thofMay]

Dysfunctional band with dysfunctional fans...no wonder people always try to find common ground between the Beach Boys and the Beatles. I mean, the Beatles are all a bunch of jyet one idiot posts a stupid remark on the bloobored that almost, essentially, ended Brian's career.

What happened there?

I believe it was in response to Live at the Roxy; some guy went completely apeshit on the forum and basically stated that Brian should just retire. Brian apparently caught wind of this and, it's rumored, almost DID retire in the aftermath

I am throwing stuff and kicking things..I am going ape sh*t..hear me BRI open the vaults..Release SMiLE for free etc etc...

It wasn't the Roxy album, it was later. No rumor, either...actually happened.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I don't need to respond to your direct quotes

No, because your only goal here is to demonize a particular position rather than actually deal with the reasons people have for holding that position.  In other words, you are an intellectual charlatan.

You're just spouting the party-line that has been repeated to death and will never change.

In fact, what I’m doing is directly discussing the very things that Mike Love has said, which you refuse to address. But I suppose it’s easy for you to make things up when you’re not actually engaging with my points.

Myke haters are so quick to anger and take offense when anyone tries to suggest another possibility, no matter how tactful or well reasoned their opinions might be.

As far as I can tell, the only “other possibility” you have suggested here is that we’re just “Myke haters” and therefore our points shouldn’t be taken seriously. That’s hardly a strong counter-argument.

I feel lit simply pays to remember: just out of plain consideration, that there are people out there, actual Beach Boys fans (misguided or not) who think Mike is a talented person, like his singing, his lyrics, his vibe, his style as a frontman, and somehow contribute these feelings to their overall appreciation of The Beach Boys as a group made up of individuals

I have already praised Mike Love on this thread alone for his singing and his songwriting but clearly anything short of zero criticism isn’t good enough for you.

Therefore the stale old "Mike is evil" bullmerda can be a bit insulting to these silly fans.

This will be easy. Find one single quotation is this entire thread that states that Mike is evil. Then, when you don’t find it, your options are to apologize for constructing a strawman argument or to let your lie sit in silence like a coward.

I'm sorry, but NO ONE in the Beach Boys was riding Brian's coattails. Especially not the guy who regularly wrote with the guy and who founded the damn band and was pretty much the co-lead singer in the band and who busted his ass as a live performer as a part of The Beach Boys.

Like I said before, there is no reasoning with you people.

I was merely responding to a poster in this thread who was defending Love and said the following:

The whole band rode on the coatstrings of Brian's compositions

If you have a problem with it, you should take it up with him, not me because I’m not the one who made the claim. But, like someone on this thread said, “it’s much easier to find a handy villain,” you giant hypocrite.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Your rant has proven my entire point

Goodnight

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Nor is the is a court trial. I have my opinion and you have yours and we can haggle here until the cows come home, and it's all in good fun.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

He was unwilling, yet he sang the lyrics.

Did he? I mean, I can't say for sure, but it's certainly interesting that no vocals seem to exist for Surf's Up and Cabin Essence despite the vocal sessions that have been noted (the one that apparently didn't go well)

I think the reason it fell apart was because from that point on, as Anderle has said, they had to have a single out.

In December? That surprises me because four months elapsed between Sloop John B. and Wouldn't it be Nice and it had only been two months since GV. Why did there need to be a single out? Wasn't the album also meant to come out in January? I really find it hard to believe that the album due out in a month was less of a concern than a single.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Your rant has proven my entire point

Goodnight

Thanks. Just so you know, blowing a bunch of rhetorical smoke to hide the fact that you are merely repeatedly evading my points and neglecting to engage with the substance of posts that actively deal with direct points that Love himself has made is unconvincing to me, but I hope it makes you feel better.

[oldsurferdude]

I feel lit simply pays to remember: just out of plain consideration, that there are people out there, actual Beach Boys fans (misguided or not) who think Mike is a talented person, like his singing, his lyrics, his vibe, his style as a frontman, and somehow contribute these feelings to their overall appreciation of The Beach Boys as a group made up of individuals. Brian get's his due and will continue to get his due: no one can change that. But there are fans out there who actually like Mike. It's possible and real. Therefore the stale old "Mike is evil" bullmerda can be a bit insulting to these silly fans.

Shades of the sheriff??