Classic Rock Outtakes Industry:where do we go from here?

[shelter]

I think the answer to the original question is quite simple. There will be "new" classic rock bands. Bands like Red Hot Chili Peppers, U2, REM, Nirvana and Guns N' Roses.

[Mike's Beard]

The upcoming Queen reissues have raided the vaults, and I gather the Floyd are contemplating an archive project. That aside, I'm thinking the remaining legendary tracks are the 24-minute "Helter Skelter" (yawn...) and Macca's "Carnival of Light", which I'm most reliably informed is absolute bollocks. Oh, and maybe before he dies, Dave Clark will authorise the DVD/BluRay release of the RSG ! material he owns.

That said the 10 minute version of "Revolution 1" which surfaced quite recently is bloody great.

I'm still hoping for some kind of Pink Floyd out-take collection, which if Nick Mason is to be believed, might actually happen. And I think those connected with Pink Floyd missed a big oppotunity by not including "Vegetable Man", and "Scream Thy Last Scream" on the recent Syd Barrett best of, or the PATGOD reissue from a while back.

Because those two songs are actually from sessions for the group's 2nd album.

Unreleased post-"Emily" single, actually.

Really? The mind boggles to think that either of those two tracks could ever have been even considered as a potential single.

[guitarfool2002]

I call a lot of this frustration I have with who chooses what to release from the vaults my "Leave My Kitten Alone" syndrome. That stems from the first time I read about an outtake of that song from the session which to the best of my knowledge has yet to be leaked or booted beyond a tiny cadre of "insiders" as is usually the case, I'd assume.

So I get the Recording Sessions book as a Christmas gift, read it, and find the section about "Leave My Kitten Alone". I had already heard the mixed-down version from a guy who gave me a cassette of various outtakes and boot material, so I knew the track (and I had "Sessions" on vinyl having found it at a record show.

The description was that one of the takes which didn't break down featured a "searing Lennon vocal".

How can any fan of Lennon or the Beatles read a small blurb like that, "searing Lennon vocal", and not want to hear the track with their own ears? Why include that description if you're not aware how much fan interest this will generate in hearing *that particular take*?

So whenever I get that frustration about not hearing something known to exist but never being released, that's my Leave My Kitten Alone syndrome. We get McCartney playing hours of crap from his solo archives on syndicated radio, we get George Harrison editing what he wants us to hear on Anthology history-be-damned, and yet another fucking take of Dont Pass Me By which is a weak-ass song to begin with, but no "searing Lennon vocal". Oh well! At least we got that Revolution take a few years ago...

[Mike's Beard]

"Wouldn't it be nice to live again" is the BB's "Leave my kitten alone".

[Dead Parrot]

Because those two songs are actually from sessions for the group's 2nd album.

A fact which didn't stop them from including 2 versions of "Apples & Oranges".

[rogerlancelot]

I remember there being a couple of Beatles' "stack-o-tracks" boots but they were highly expensive when I saw them so long ago. The tracks that were released on Anthology 2 (Elenor Rigby is all I can remember at the moment) just weren't enough....Am I the only one here who wants more of the backing tracks?

Capitol loves releasing those for the BB, why not the Beatles?

There was a "Stack O' Vocals" mix prepared of "Paperback Writer" for A2 but it was vetoed.  

You can make your own instrumental mix of PW with the Moggs that have been going around for a while. I did some very fun instrumental mixes of SPLHCB and Abbey Road for my own amusement. Love the Rockband game by the way!

[Mike's Beard]

Timescale wise "Apples and Oranges" is closer to "Piper" than it is "Saucerfull".

[guitarfool2002]

"Wouldn't it be nice to live again" is the BB's "Leave my kitten alone".

Just asking for fun: Suppose the upcoming Smile release is a smashing commercial success, and all but sells out of its initial run, if that's possible. Do you think that would in any way affect the decisions made on releasing this kind of thing in the future? Or would/will the Smile project be just a fluke along the lines of Hawthorne - once and done.

[Jim V.]

I still think The Beatles have an ace in the hole with "Now and Then", if Paul chooses to finish it. But yeah, I think the only other vault things that would be worth a crap by them is a live album, an official Get Back (not Let It Be... Naked), and also maybe a compilation of the strongest outtakes from the Get Back sessions, like some covers and maybe their little run through of "Love Me Do".

The Beach Boys though? I think at the very least, you could still at least do one disc with material like "(Wouldn't It Be Nice) To Live Again", the "California Feelin'" demo from '74, "Where Is She?", "You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling", and "You're Still A Mystery". Those five songs at least deserve release (just guessing on "Where Is She?" and the "California Feelin'" demo).

I think Fleetwood Mac might also have some more vault material, at least for Mirage and Tango In The Night, but I'm not sure how much interest there is for that. Rumours and Tusk had a lot of unreleased material, but it was mostly alternates, not very much in the way of brand-new titles.

GuyOnTheBeach, mentioned McCartney, and its great to see that McCartney and McCartney II getting reissued with bonus material. Although Band on the Run didn't have much in the way of unreleased stuff, I think these 2 will be great.

[Chris Moise]

Timescale wise "Apples and Oranges" is closer to "Piper" than it is "Saucerfull".

Nope. Apples and Oranges was started 3 months *after* Scream thy Last Scream. Three Saucerful songs were in the can before Apples and Oranges was recorded.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I call a lot of this frustration I have with who chooses what to release from the vaults my "Leave My Kitten Alone" syndrome. That stems from the first time I read about an outtake of that song from the session which to the best of my knowledge has yet to be leaked or booted beyond a tiny cadre of "insiders" as is usually the case, I'd assume.

So I get the Recording Sessions book as a Christmas gift, read it, and find the section about "Leave My Kitten Alone". I had already heard the mixed-down version from a guy who gave me a cassette of various outtakes and boot material, so I knew the track (and I had "Sessions" on vinyl having found it at a record show.

The description was that one of the takes which didn't break down featured a "searing Lennon vocal".

How can any fan of Lennon or the Beatles read a small blurb like that, "searing Lennon vocal", and not want to hear the track with their own ears? Why include that description if you're not aware how much fan interest this will generate in hearing *that particular take*?

So whenever I get that frustration about not hearing something known to exist but never being released, that's my Leave My Kitten Alone syndrome. We get McCartney playing hours of crap from his solo archives on syndicated radio, we get George Harrison editing what he wants us to hear on Anthology history-be-damned, and yet another friggin' take of Dont Pass Me By which is a weak-ass song to begin with, but no "searing Lennon vocal". Oh well! At least we got that Revolution take a few years ago...

That would be the same author who described take 1 of "Tomorrow Never Knows" as "a heavy metal recording of immense dimension" (or something similar) when it was nothing of the sort. I was dying inside to hear that and when I finally did... I don't think I've been so let down for years.  Lewishon's credibility with me died that day.

[rogerlancelot]

I call a lot of this frustration I have with who chooses what to release from the vaults my "Leave My Kitten Alone" syndrome. That stems from the first time I read about an outtake of that song from the session which to the best of my knowledge has yet to be leaked or booted beyond a tiny cadre of "insiders" as is usually the case, I'd assume.

So I get the Recording Sessions book as a Christmas gift, read it, and find the section about "Leave My Kitten Alone". I had already heard the mixed-down version from a guy who gave me a cassette of various outtakes and boot material, so I knew the track (and I had "Sessions" on vinyl having found it at a record show.

The description was that one of the takes which didn't break down featured a "searing Lennon vocal".

How can any fan of Lennon or the Beatles read a small blurb like that, "searing Lennon vocal", and not want to hear the track with their own ears? Why include that description if you're not aware how much fan interest this will generate in hearing *that particular take*?

So whenever I get that frustration about not hearing something known to exist but never being released, that's my Leave My Kitten Alone syndrome. We get McCartney playing hours of crap from his solo archives on syndicated radio, we get George Harrison editing what he wants us to hear on Anthology history-be-damned, and yet another friggin' take of Dont Pass Me By which is a weak-ass song to begin with, but no "searing Lennon vocal". Oh well! At least we got that Revolution take a few years ago...

That would be the same author who described take 1 of "Tomorrow Never Knows" as "a heavy metal recording of immense dimension" (or something similar) when it was nothing of the sort. I was dying inside to hear that and when I finally did... I don't think I've been so let down for years.  Lewishon's credibility with me died that day.

His description of the early takes of "Helter Skelter" is also very dubious.

[Chris Moise]

You're saying the people in charge of a major reissue admit they didn't do their job anything like properly ?  Not sure I buy that - you don't have to be a Floyd geek to know about "Vegetable Man" or "Scream". Whatever shortcomings Abbey road may have had, its filing system wasn't one of them.

Two things:

- I was talking about the early mono mix of Bike with the alternate vocals and lyrics. E64571 to be exact. Obviously everyone knows about Vegetable Man and Scream.

- I didn't say "the people in charge" of the reissue. What I said was "someone peripherally involved" re the bonus material.

I don't think they even considered bonus material on the Piper set until right before the release date. The set was simply going to be everything that was released in 1967 (mono/stereo LP, the 45's, French EP IO). At the 11th hour someone that had recently worked a band member mentioned the 'Belloc' Matilda and Interstellar take 6 and they were added at the last minute. Up until a few weeks before it was in the shops every press release for Disc 3 just had the singles + French IO.

Point being they didn't audition the surviving reels because this package wasn't designed to be an outtakes release. The selling point was the mono mix. I can assure you surviving band members are not aware that things like, for example, the John Latham tape are in the vaults. I'm not speculating here.

[Chris Moise]

That would be the same author who described take 1 of "Tomorrow Never Knows" as "a heavy metal recording of immense dimension" (or something similar) when it was nothing of the sort. I was dying inside to hear that and when I finally did... I don't think I've been so let down for years.  Lewishon's credibility with me died that day.

I agree the description of TNK take 1 is well off but all accounts Lewisohn's credibility as a researcher is impeccable. Keep in mind the mix he heard is not the one on Anthology, he was hearing it played back at high volume inside Abbey Road under strict time constraints. You can understand how under these circumstances his description was a little over the top. I don't think there are any other examples where he overstated the performance qualities of (then) unheard material. IIRC Mark has said there was a mad dash to meet the deadline and he didn't have nearly as much time as he wanted to complete the book.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Timescale wise "Apples and Oranges" is closer to "Piper" than it is "Saucerfull".

You sure about that ? According to Abbey Road documentation "Scream" was filed in the tape library August 7th 1967 (65464-4T), and the first mention of "Apples" was on October 30th (66462-4T).

[Andrew G. Doe]

You're saying the people in charge of a major reissue admit they didn't do their job anything like properly ?  Not sure I buy that - you don't have to be a Floyd geek to know about "Vegetable Man" or "Scream". Whatever shortcomings Abbey road may have had, its filing system wasn't one of them.

Two things:

- I was talking about the early mono mix of Bike with the alternate vocals and lyrics. E64571 to be exact. Obviously everyone knows about Vegetable Man and Scream.

- I didn't say "the people in charge" of the reissue. What I said was "someone peripherally involved" re the bonus material.

The strong implication was that the person you spoke to was more than mildly involved, thus: "I mentioned a couple tasty unbooted Piper outtakes to someone peripherally involved in selecting bonus material on the set and he said something like "if we knew that existed we probably would've put it out". "

[Curtis Leon]

The upcoming Queen reissues have raided the vaults, and I gather the Floyd are contemplating an archive project. That aside, I'm thinking the remaining legendary tracks are the 24-minute "Helter Skelter" (yawn...) and Macca's "Carnival of Light", which I'm most reliably informed is absolute bollocks. Oh, and maybe before he dies, Dave Clark will authorise the DVD/BluRay release of the RSG ! material he owns.

That said the 10 minute version of "Revolution 1" which surfaced quite recently is bloody great.

I'm still hoping for some kind of Pink Floyd out-take collection, which if Nick Mason is to be believed, might actually happen. And I think those connected with Pink Floyd missed a big oppotunity by not including "Vegetable Man", and "Scream Thy Last Scream" on the recent Syd Barrett best of, or the PATGOD reissue from a while back.

Because those two songs are actually from sessions for the group's 2nd album.

Unreleased post-"Emily" single, actually.

Really? The mind boggles to think that either of those two tracks could ever have been even considered as a potential single.

Remember, none of the members of Pink Floyd besides Barrett were tested songwriters at that time. It's very possible that they were ready to take whatever material his rapidly deteriorating mind would give them.

On another note, Barrett was apparently crushed when Vegetable Man got rejected for A Saucerful of Secrets.

[Chris Moise]

The strong implication was that the person you spoke to was more than mildly involved, thus: "I mentioned a couple tasty unbooted Piper outtakes to someone peripherally involved in selecting bonus material on the set and he said something like "if we knew that existed we probably would've put it out". "

I'm not sure where we disagree...the person I spoke with didn't work for the band or label. He did work with a band member on an unrelated project and knowing plans were afoot for a Piper set hipped them to the existence of these two tracks; both of which were in their vault but they were not aware of. If he hadn't done that they would still be in the vault. Since he talked to the powers that be re these two outtakes he told me his impression was that if he knew of the existence of the other two outtakes he thinks they would've made the cut as well.

[Chris Moise]

On another note, Barrett was apparently crushed when Vegetable Man got rejected for A Saucerful of Secrets.

I don't mean for this to sound snarky but I'd love to see a cite for that. Syd was well out the picture when the Saucerful album compiled.

[rogerlancelot]

Does anybody know if "In The Beechwoods" exists in the vault? Or is the crappy lo-fi recording from the Nick Mason interview all we'll ever hear?

[Chris Moise]

Does anybody know if "In The Beechwoods" exists in the vault? Or is the crappy lo-fi recording from the Nick Mason interview all we'll ever hear?

It is in vault. Reel E68410, 1/2" 4 track. Take 5 is 'best' and is the one heard on the super lo-fi interview tape. The recording quality of the master is said to be amazing. Rick's solo at the end is one of the best things he did IMO.
 

[rogerlancelot]

Does anybody know if "In The Beechwoods" exists in the vault? Or is the crappy lo-fi recording from the Nick Mason interview all we'll ever hear?

It is in vault. Reel E68410, 1/2" 4 track. Take 5 is 'best' and is the one heard on the super lo-fi interview tape. The recording quality of the master is said to be amazing. Rick's solo at the end is one of the best things he did IMO.
 

That track is highly releasable. I am looking forward to a Floyd outtake set. Thanks for the info!

[Mike's Beard]

Timescale wise "Apples and Oranges" is closer to "Piper" than it is "Saucerfull".

You sure about that ? According to Abbey Road documentation "Scream" was filed in the tape library August 7th 1967 (65464-4T), and the first mention of "Apples" was on October 30th (66462-4T).

Not now that you and Chris have both shat on my post. 
I guess it's because both "Scream" and "Vegetable Man"  are both so demented, whilst "Apples" (botched production aside) is quite a poppy tune, that I always assumed they came later as Syd's mental health deteriorated.

[roll plymouth rock]

Can you guys recommend a good comp that has this Syd stuff on it?

[rogerlancelot]

Can you guys recommend a good comp that has this Syd stuff on it?

Have You Got It Yet is easy to find (but very long). But it is made by fans and available as a free download.