Denny -- The Group's Strongest Vocalist?

[adamghost]

OH!  I know where.  At the tail end of the bridge.  He kind of half-sings a few notes in falsetto, doesn't he?  Good catch!

[ReggieDunbar]

My isolated copy of that vocal sounds a lot like Bruce, with Brian floating in the background underneath, but that's after heavy extraction processing, so still not a guarantee. 

According to Bruce it's Carl doubling with him on the na-na-na-na outro of GV!

//RD

[Austin]

According to Bruce it's Carl doubling with him on the na-na-na-na outro of GV!

I could see that. Geez though, awfully high vocal for Carl.

[adamghost]

According to Bruce it's Carl doubling with him on the na-na-na-na outro of GV!

I could see that. Geez though, awfully high vocal for Carl.

Well now we know he got the note.  I wonder if it's the same deal on "Surf's Up?"

They did some pretty snazzy (and high) dual vocal stuff on the LIGHT ALBUM as well.

[Fall Breaks]

My isolated copy of that vocal sounds a lot like Bruce, with Brian floating in the background underneath, but that's after heavy extraction processing, so still not a guarantee. 

According to Bruce it's Carl doubling with him on the na-na-na-na outro of GV!

//RD

First of all, let me say I trust Bruce on this. Then, let me proceed to say how weird that is. Didn't Brian fly out to Michigan to rehearse GV with them prior to them debuting it live, including teaching Carl how to sing the verse line ("wheeeeen I look...") that Brian sang on the record, because it was so high. And here we have Carl already singing a part that is over half an octave above that, on the studio recording! Adam, you know more about singing than I do, make sense out of this, please.

[Chris Brown]

My isolated copy of that vocal sounds a lot like Bruce, with Brian floating in the background underneath, but that's after heavy extraction processing, so still not a guarantee. 

According to Bruce it's Carl doubling with him on the na-na-na-na outro of GV!

//RD

First of all, let me say I trust Bruce on this. Then, let me proceed to say how weird that is. Didn't Brian fly out to Michigan to rehearse GV with them prior to them debuting it live, including teaching Carl how to sing the verse line ("wheeeeen I look...") that Brian sang on the record, because it was so high. And here we have Carl already singing a part that is over half an octave above that, on the studio recording! Adam, you know more about singing than I do, make sense out of this, please.

It doesn't make any sense - unless the quick trade-off on the verses was done for aesthetic reasons (as in Carl could actually hit the note, but Brian wanted it to sound stronger than Carl could sing it), somebody's story isn't accurate.  I definitely hear a Wilson in there, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if it was Carl and Bruce.  Where did the story of Carl not being able to hit the high note in the verses originate?

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Let's remember though, Carl was developing FAST as a lead vocalist around this time! Something that may have been hard for him when put on the spot in the studio, might have been cake a mere weeks later.

[Chris Brown]

Let's remember though, Carl was developing FAST as a lead vocalist around this time! Something that may have been hard for him when put on the spot in the studio, might have been cake a mere weeks later.

I don't care who you are, you don't suddenly develop another near octave of comfortable range overnight.  A few years, sure, but if you have trouble with a high B flat, you aren't going to be nailing a G5 anytime soon.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

How do we know that the note in question (I hear the sound of a......) was doubled in by Brian ( or completely by Brian) because Carl simply couldn't hit the note? Could it have been that Carl could hit it but that it just didn't sound strong enough? Carl never had that Brian shrillness that made such note so supernaturally awesome.

Lol, Chris, I know you brought up this exact same possibility a couple posts ago, but I guess I find it a very likely possibility

[adamghost]

How do we know that the note in question (I hear the sound of a......) was doubled in by Brian ( or completely by Brian) because Carl simply couldn't hit the note? Could it have been that Carl could hit it but that it just didn't sound strong enough? Carl never had that Brian shrillness that made such note so supernaturally awesome.

Lol, Chris, I know you brought up this exact same possibility a couple posts ago, but I guess I find it a very likely possibility

I think Erik's got it.

The whole Brian doubling on the top note thing on GV always struck me as something that the band, internally, thought was necessary that we as listeners probably wouldn't.  The reason I say that is they continued to double that line live into the '80s (and as far as I know, they still do), and it always struck me as completely superfluous in that Carl always hit the note and half the time whoever was doubling him (Bruce IIRC) didn't always double it well.  Brian probably just thought that it needed to be stronger there, so he added his own voice.

Anyway, I speculated about this somewhere else but my sense is Carl had the notes but didn't feel comfortable singing in that range.  And having just come from a session where I had to hit repeated E5's, I feel his pain.  But I guess the answer to the person that asked why could he do the one thing that was higher and not the other thing that was lower, let me refer back to that:  I can hit an E5.  But it is a loud, screechy thing.  If you want a big, loud, whiny big top note, and you don't have to hold it too long, I am your guy.  I can whine that sucker like nobody's business, you'll be covering your ears and windows will break.  But if you want a nice pretty, held E5 that doesn't sound like an icepick, call Probyn Gregory.  He's your guy.   I can't do it.  He's got finesse up there.  I've got one gear in that range, and that's piercing.  So if you want that sound, great, but if you don't, you want the other guy that can finesse.

So to apply that to the question and to the Beach Boys, it's not just about having the notes, it's about your quality and timbre and what you can do with 'em.  Brian was very aware of this aspect of the band's singing, how the voices would blend and what each member could and couldn't bring to the table on a particular track.  So he may have thought, OK big winey top note, that's me and not Carl, let me get that one.  And at the end, maybe he's thinking, OK, light, soft and breathy, a high G.  I'm gonna sound too harsh.  Bruce and Carl doubled does the trick.

I'm a bit drunk, so maybe I'm not expressing myself well, but that's how I see it having played out.

[Jay]

Having not read this full topic, I hope that this hasn't been discussed. I have always thought that Dennis would have been great as a lead singer for the group. Especially from around 1968 to 1974. He should have been at the front of the stage. Think about all the song he could have done in concert as the "leader". Can you imagine Dennis in front, singing Slip On Through,  All I Want To Do(you guys know which one I mean  ), Help Me Rhonda, Got To Know The Women, Forever, Only With You, etc. He could have done the solo on Surfer Girl. He probably could have done In My Room. Even You Need A Mess of Help To Stand Alone, if Carl wanted a break. He could have made Student Demonstration Time cool, and maybe even Barbara Ann. 

[adamghost]

Having not read this full topic, I hope that this hasn't been discussed. I have always thought that Dennis would have been great as a lead singer for the group. Especially from around 1968 to 1974. He should have been at the front of the stage. Think about all the song he could have done in concert as the "leader". Can you imagine Dennis in front, singing Slip On Through,  All I Want To Do(you guys know which one I mean  ), Help Me Rhonda, Got To Know The Women, Forever, Only With You, etc. He could have done the solo on Surfer Girl. He probably could have done In My Room. Even You Need A Mess of Help To Stand Alone, if Carl wanted a break. He could have made Student Demonstration Time cool, and maybe even Barbara Ann. 

Ed Roach made a great comment about this, it may have even been upthread on this topic (I can't keep them straight).  He said that the group's trust and respect for Dennis went down dramatically after the Manson murders.  There's evidence that around '68 or '69 the band was considering this approach, including a few TV appearances with Dennis fronting the band, and having a very high profile role on the 20/20 and SUNFLOWER albums.  Contrast that with the band putting Dennis up front after his hand injury in '71, but Dennis not actually doing very much.

I'm as big a shipper for Dennis as anybody, but I do have to say that my experience with band dynamics is that if somebody's that talented and wants that role enough, that person is going to be accommodated in some way.  But after '70, Dennis (from the band's perspective) couldn't be counted on to be there.  He hurts his hand, he's off in a movie, he's making a solo record, he announces to the press he's leaving the band, he pulls his songs off the album at the last minute.  And this is just 1971.

So you're absolutely right, but it wasn't too be.  Now you could argue that, according to Ed, the band just no longer was willing to roll the dice on Dennis and Dennis exercised his frustrations elsewhere.  Or that Dennis just was never that reliable in the first place.  You can find evidence to support either scenario....but there's a reason this didn't happen and it wasn't just that nobody thought of it, I'd wager.

[Chris Brown]

Actually Adam, you expressed quite well what I was getting at.  Brian was all about getting the right sounds, and he knew their voices well enough to choose the right person/people for a particular vocal part. 

I asked this before, and hopefully somebody can shed some light - does anybody know where the "Carl couldn't hit the note" story originated?

[Fall Breaks]

Actually Adam, you expressed quite well what I was getting at.  Brian was all about getting the right sounds, and he knew their voices well enough to choose the right person/people for a particular vocal part. 

Yes it makes more sense now, thanks Chris and Adam. Still, Brian does a nice job on said part on the Lei'd rehearsal ... until you tell me that that's Carl too! 

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Actually Adam, you expressed quite well what I was getting at.  Brian was all about getting the right sounds, and he knew their voices well enough to choose the right person/people for a particular vocal part. 

I asked this before, and hopefully somebody can shed some light - does anybody know where the "Carl couldn't hit the note" story originated?

Did it start from it simply being so obviously Brian in that part of the song???

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

No Brian or doubling here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC2gZMNkyJo

and Carl hits the note like a champ, but it's a lot softer than Brian on the recording.

[Chris Brown]

Actually Adam, you expressed quite well what I was getting at.  Brian was all about getting the right sounds, and he knew their voices well enough to choose the right person/people for a particular vocal part. 

I asked this before, and hopefully somebody can shed some light - does anybody know where the "Carl couldn't hit the note" story originated?

Did it start from it simply being so obviously Brian in that part of the song???

Maybe, although I swear I recall reading it in an article somewhere.  I've probably read hundreds of BB articles in my lifetime though, so who knows?

Before I knew their voices well, I never suspected it wasn't Carl singing the entire verse.  I like the way Carl sings it, but he never had that stronger, more shrill head voice that Brian had, and obviously that was what Brian wanted for that part.  Hell, on the demo (with Asher's lyrics), Brian hits it not only strong, but in full voice - he wanted the note to stand out, and his voice was more suited to that than Carl's was.

[hypehat]

No Brian or doubling here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC2gZMNkyJo

and Carl hits the note like a champ, but it's a lot softer than Brian on the recording.

But nearly ten years later, when his voice was stronger.

[Runaways]

i'd be surprised if he would have ever had trouble with that note. it's an easy one.  I'd definitely bet brian just wanted more oomph.  It sounds better when that part has an extra voice anyway. 

[hypehat]

To get back to the 'bloody high notes of the group' side of the discussion, what's the top note of the Piano/Vocal CITFOTM chorus? And is it Bruce singing it?

[tpesky]

While Bruce can sing VERY high, he doesn't have much projection on his high notes. So in a live setting, his falsetto doesn't do the job at all. If you listen to live recordings when he was doing the falsetto on  I get Around you can barely hear it. Al sings alot more of Brian's parts. Billy Hinsche and Bobby Figureoa sang high parts as well

[adamghost]

While Bruce can sing VERY high, he doesn't have much projection on his high notes. So in a live setting, his falsetto doesn't do the job at all. If you listen to live recordings when he was doing the falsetto on  I get Around you can barely hear it. Al sings alot more of Brian's parts. Billy Hinsche and Bobby Figureoa sang high parts as well

Absolutely true...he also had a tendency to sing about a million miles off the mic, God knows why.  Loud monitor causing misjudging?  Who knows.

[Fall Breaks]

So, if Carl's (or possibly Bruce's) A5 in "Surf's Up" is the highest noted reached by a Beach Boy on record, what's the lowest? Top of my head, I'd say the F that Dennis sings in "Shortenin' Bread" ("Mama's little baby loves shortenin', shortenin'..."). Any lower? Is there an E somewhere?

[Chris Brown]

So, if Carl's (or possibly Bruce's) A5 in "Surf's Up" is the highest noted reached by a Beach Boy on record, what's the lowest? Top of my head, I'd say the F that Dennis sings in "Shortenin' Bread" ("Mama's little baby loves shortenin', shortenin'..."). Any lower? Is there an E somewhere?

Mike hits a low E twice in the last 4 bars of the bridge on "Wouldn't It Be Nice."

[Jon Stebbins]

So, if Carl's (or possibly Bruce's) A5 in "Surf's Up" is the highest noted reached by a Beach Boy on record, what's the lowest? Top of my head, I'd say the F that Dennis sings in "Shortenin' Bread" ("Mama's little baby loves shortenin', shortenin'..."). Any lower? Is there an E somewhere?

Mike hits a low E twice in the last 4 bars of the bridge on "Wouldn't It Be Nice."

I believe that's Dennis singing those bass notes on WIBN