SMiLE Sessions box set!

[Shady]

I'd put it down to coming on here everyday, opening this thread and seeing nothing new..

None of us saw this wait coming so emotions are running high

[Mikie]

You seriously can't post anything on this board without somebody getting pissed off at you.

That depends upon what you post.

[SMiLE Brian]

SMiLE EVERYONE AND STOP THE BULLSHIITS!

Well Said!

[rab2591]

You seriously can't post anything on this board without somebody getting pissed off at you.

That depends upon what you post.

Yeah, if you post someone stupid you'll get an earful, understandably, from AGD. If you post something intelligent you get an earful of sarcastic sh*t from bgas and some others.

Frankly, I enjoy most of bgas' posts - he's uploaded some pretty awesome stuff as of late - but the sarcasm is wearing thin. IMO.

[bgas]

Ahh, I can go that route also; I have no personal beefs with anyone here. And if chalking things up to not uinderstanding each person's sense of humour makes it better, so be it.
 Having said that, I don't see posting and continuation of completely off thread stuff( I call it crap) as being useful, interesting or the like. There are other places on this board, set up for that very purpose, if all you want to do is run off at the keyboard. I check most of them myself, and post where I have something to say. Threads on the BBs I like to see posts relating to the BBs. It's all well to run up the count in the scramble towards 100 pages, just do it Beach Boys.  Not all of us will ever agree on what is "on thread" but it's pretty easy to see what isn't.
 Oh; the mentions of Hitler are not humorous. Nothing about that is funny. None of my relatives find anything funny about him either

The sarcasm is part and parcel, a way of looking at/reacting to life. Evidently not appreciated by all; perhaps something to work on

[onkster]

I'm hopping on the bus for curtailing the general bitchiness. And I've heard enough whining from people who get bitchy and then complain when people fire back. It starts with you, and you know who you are.

Meanwhile:
Who do you suppose wrote the lyrics to "He Gives Speeches"? I asked Van Dyke once, and he assured me very strongly it wasn't him. I haven't ever heard anyone take credit for them, interestingly. (I always thought they sounded like somebody trying to imitate Mr. Parks without really getting what he was doing...)

[Micha]

I think now is an opportune moment to discuss the song Ganz Allein and its impact on German awareness of NAZI atrocities.

Actually, the lyrical style of the translation is very antiquated, like 19th century or so. Ganz allein isn't anywhere near German pop music lyrics of the time. Would never been a hit. No, not never, let's say after WWII. There the circle closes. 

[Micha]

Ok, so the new to topic is about soccer? after spending the whole thread debating/ speculating/imagining/creating/inventing... about what will be the correct month, day, hour for the release of the Smile sessions? interesting.

So finally I'm getting some kind of attention here! 

[bsten]

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Could we get back to SSSSSMMMMMIIIILLLLEEEEE

discussions only

PPPPPPPPPLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEE
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Shady]

The SMiLE well has run dry again, for the time being anyway

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Ahh, I can go that route also; I have no personal beefs with anyone here. And if chalking things up to not uinderstanding each person's sense of humour makes it better, so be it.
 Having said that, I don't see posting and continuation of completely off thread stuff( I call it crap) as being useful, interesting or the like. There are other places on this board, set up for that very purpose, if all you want to do is run off at the keyboard. I check most of them myself, and post where I have something to say. Threads on the BBs I like to see posts relating to the BBs. It's all well to run up the count in the scramble towards 100 pages, just do it Beach Boys.  Not all of us will ever agree on what is "on thread" but it's pretty easy to see what isn't.
 Oh; the mentions of Hitler are not humorous. Nothing about that is funny. None of my relatives find anything funny about him either

The sarcasm is part and parcel, a way of looking at/reacting to life. Evidently not appreciated by all; perhaps something to work on

That's cool Bgas, as I said, if you don't like my posts, just ignore them. Oh, and I'm part jewish too, obviously the funny, self depreciating part......

[Andrew G. Doe]

I'd put it down to coming on here everyday, opening this thread and seeing nothing new..

None of us saw this wait coming so emotions are running high

Speak for yourself. What's happening is exactly what I expected.  

Having said that, I don't see posting and continuation of completely off thread stuff( I call it crap) as being useful, interesting or the like. There are other places on this board, set up for that very purpose, if all you want to do is run off at the keyboard.

'Xactly - I open a thread called, ooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhh, let's say "Smile sessions box set !" and I don't expect to see pointless sh*t about soccer and Germany for half a page. The Beach Boys are American and they never played soccer. I think in this instance I'm entitled to get pissy(er).

This here is not the real world. I come here to escape that.

[Shady]

I'd put it down to coming on here everyday, opening this thread and seeing nothing new..

None of us saw this wait coming so emotions are running high

Speak for yourself. What's happening is exactly what I expected.  

Ok, 99.9% of us here thought we would have the box set by now, or at least some serious information   

[Dunderhead]

I've been thinking lately. I'd take Mike Love over Van Dyke Parks. It seems like Parks had too much control over the project, it was more of an open collaboration. With Tony Asher it sounded like Brian kept artistic control over the project, but it seems Van Dyke influenced the album quite a bit. Especially upon listening to Song Cycle. Recently, as I've listened to that album, I get the feeling more and more that SMiLE sounds more like Van Dyke Parks than it does Brian Wilson...

Also what's with Van Dyke walking off the project? I feel as if that story is only a small part of the big picture. Was Van Dyke really such a primadona that he wasn't willing to entertain questions? Think about it from Mike Love's perspective. Didn't he have a say in the material the band was putting out? It was his band just as much as it was Brian's wasn't it? Of course Brian's overall contributions outshine Mike's, Mike did contribute his fair share to the songs that made the band famous in the first place. He also was the onstage charisma that kept the BB touring up through the massive 4th of July shows over a decade later. I think in all fairness Mike Love deserved a say, he was a contributing member of the group, he deserved to have creative input. I think Mike gave Brian a lot of creative leeway and recognized his talents as a composer and producer, but when it came to SMiLE he had his right to be skeptical, he had his right to ask questions.

Was he really that obnoxious during the Cabinessence sessions? I can understand if Van Dyke Parks doesn't want to run around for the rest of his life and explain SMiLE to every tom dick and harry, but Mike Love was a member of the band, he was a contributer, he had a legal and creative say in what the band did. I don't think it was right for Van Dyke to just waltz off the project simply because he didn't like to entertain questions. If anybody had any right to question what Brian and Van Dyke were doing it was the other members of the group. I really don't buy that Van Dyke just walked away because Mike Love asked a couple of condescending questions.

Now I don't really like Mike Love that much as a musician, I don't like a lot of what he's done with the band, and I'm not particularly blown away by Mike Love as an artist. I don't agree with his opinion in regards to SMiLE, but I do think he was right in voicing it, I think he was right in being concerned, and I think he was within his rights to do what he did. He thought he was doing what was best for the group, and you can't fault him for that.

[BiG GRiN]

So, anything new in The Smile sessions box set 2011?
More than those CDs?

http://www.bradcoweb.com/smile/smilelist.htm





any guarentees to find more than we can find into those boots?
Why bother to buy the box set?   seriously, I hope there will have more and it will be better than the Pet Sounds Sessions Box set (aka emty box).
I was very dissapointed when I bought it, because as always with official release, there's only little things to listen. It's a pity that there's more to hear with the bootlegs. And why a limited edition? except to make money. I think everybody deserve to have the deluxe edition. Just sayin'

[SMiLE Brian]

I've been thinking lately. I'd take Mike Love over Van Dyke Parks. It seems like Parks had too much control over the project, it was more of an open collaboration. With Tony Asher it sounded like Brian kept artistic control over the project, but it seems Van Dyke influenced the album quite a bit. Especially upon listening to Song Cycle. Recently, as I've listened to that album, I get the feeling more and more that SMiLE sounds more like Van Dyke Parks than it does Brian Wilson...

Also what's with Van Dyke walking off the project? I feel as if that story is only a small part of the big picture. Was Van Dyke really such a primadona that he wasn't willing to entertain questions? Think about it from Mike Love's perspective. Didn't he have a say in the material the band was putting out? It was his band just as much as it was Brian's wasn't it? Of course Brian's overall contributions outshine Mike's, Mike did contribute his fair share to the songs that made the band famous in the first place. He also was the onstage charisma that kept the BB touring up through the massive 4th of July shows over a decade later. I think in all fairness Mike Love deserved a say, he was a contributing member of the group, he deserved to have creative input. I think Mike gave Brian a lot of creative leeway and recognized his talents as a composer and producer, but when it came to SMiLE he had his right to be skeptical, he had his right to ask questions.

Was he really that obnoxious during the Cabinessence sessions? I can understand if Van Dyke Parks doesn't want to run around for the rest of his life and explain SMiLE to every tom dick and harry, but Mike Love was a member of the band, he was a contributer, he had a legal and creative say in what the band did. I don't think it was right for Van Dyke to just waltz off the project simply because he didn't like to entertain questions. If anybody had any right to question what Brian and Van Dyke were doing it was the other members of the group. I really don't buy that Van Dyke just walked away because Mike Love asked a couple of condescending questions.

Now I don't really like Mike Love that much as a musician, I don't like a lot of what he's done with the band, and I'm not particularly blown away by Mike Love as an artist. I don't agree with his opinion in regards to SMiLE, but I do think he was right in voicing it, I think he was right in being concerned, and I think he was within his rights to do what he did. He thought he was doing what was best for the group, and you can't fault him for that.

Fishmonk just nailed Mike's perspective in a nutshell and its a totally valid view of the Smile story in its own right.

[bgas]

I've been thinking lately. I'd take Mike Love over Van Dyke Parks. It seems like Parks had too much control over the project, it was more of an open collaboration. With Tony Asher it sounded like Brian kept artistic control over the project, but it seems Van Dyke influenced the album quite a bit. Especially upon listening to Song Cycle. Recently, as I've listened to that album, I get the feeling more and more that SMiLE sounds more like Van Dyke Parks than it does Brian Wilson...

Also what's with Van Dyke walking off the project? I feel as if that story is only a small part of the big picture. Was Van Dyke really such a primadona that he wasn't willing to entertain questions? Think about it from Mike Love's perspective. Didn't he have a say in the material the band was putting out? It was his band just as much as it was Brian's wasn't it? Of course Brian's overall contributions outshine Mike's, Mike did contribute his fair share to the songs that made the band famous in the first place. He also was the onstage charisma that kept the BB touring up through the massive 4th of July shows over a decade later. I think in all fairness Mike Love deserved a say, he was a contributing member of the group, he deserved to have creative input. I think Mike gave Brian a lot of creative leeway and recognized his talents as a composer and producer, but when it came to SMiLE he had his right to be skeptical, he had his right to ask questions.

Was he really that obnoxious during the Cabinessence sessions? I can understand if Van Dyke Parks doesn't want to run around for the rest of his life and explain SMiLE to every tom dick and harry, but Mike Love was a member of the band, he was a contributer, he had a legal and creative say in what the band did. I don't think it was right for Van Dyke to just waltz off the project simply because he didn't like to entertain questions. If anybody had any right to question what Brian and Van Dyke were doing it was the other members of the group. I really don't buy that Van Dyke just walked away because Mike Love asked a couple of condescending questions.

Now I don't really like Mike Love that much as a musician, I don't like a lot of what he's done with the band, and I'm not particularly blown away by Mike Love as an artist. I don't agree with his opinion in regards to SMiLE, but I do think he was right in voicing it, I think he was right in being concerned, and I think he was within his rights to do what he did. He thought he was doing what was best for the group, and you can't fault him for that.

Most of the quotes I remember from VDP seem to put up the opposite thought; while he might have liked to be a bigger influence, he was always deferring to Brian as "the boss". and he walked away because he wanted to. I doubt any of us know his real reasons for walking: He wasn't comfortable with Mike/someone else? he didn't like Brian being the overlord? he didn't want to/ didn't feel he should have to answer questions?  Who knows? 

 As to whether Mike had the "right" to input, again that seems up to Brian. Brian "owned" the big picture, not Mike. Have to believe the first thoughts in Brians' head wasn't who was going to perform which songs live. His concern was getting the songs in his head onto tape, the way he heard them, not the way Mike wanted them to sound.

[pixletwin]

I've been thinking lately. I'd take Mike Love over Van Dyke Parks. It seems like Parks had too much control over the project, it was more of an open collaboration. With Tony Asher it sounded like Brian kept artistic control over the project, but it seems Van Dyke influenced the album quite a bit. Especially upon listening to Song Cycle. Recently, as I've listened to that album, I get the feeling more and more that SMiLE sounds more like Van Dyke Parks than it does Brian Wilson...

Also what's with Van Dyke walking off the project? I feel as if that story is only a small part of the big picture. Was Van Dyke really such a primadona that he wasn't willing to entertain questions? Think about it from Mike Love's perspective. Didn't he have a say in the material the band was putting out? It was his band just as much as it was Brian's wasn't it? Of course Brian's overall contributions outshine Mike's, Mike did contribute his fair share to the songs that made the band famous in the first place. He also was the onstage charisma that kept the BB touring up through the massive 4th of July shows over a decade later. I think in all fairness Mike Love deserved a say, he was a contributing member of the group, he deserved to have creative input. I think Mike gave Brian a lot of creative leeway and recognized his talents as a composer and producer, but when it came to SMiLE he had his right to be skeptical, he had his right to ask questions.

Was he really that obnoxious during the Cabinessence sessions? I can understand if Van Dyke Parks doesn't want to run around for the rest of his life and explain SMiLE to every tom dick and harry, but Mike Love was a member of the band, he was a contributer, he had a legal and creative say in what the band did. I don't think it was right for Van Dyke to just waltz off the project simply because he didn't like to entertain questions. If anybody had any right to question what Brian and Van Dyke were doing it was the other members of the group. I really don't buy that Van Dyke just walked away because Mike Love asked a couple of condescending questions.

Now I don't really like Mike Love that much as a musician, I don't like a lot of what he's done with the band, and I'm not particularly blown away by Mike Love as an artist. I don't agree with his opinion in regards to SMiLE, but I do think he was right in voicing it, I think he was right in being concerned, and I think he was within his rights to do what he did. He thought he was doing what was best for the group, and you can't fault him for that.

Fishmonk just nailed Mike's perspective in a nutshell and its a totally valid view of the Smile story in its own right.

Agreed. I think that's exactly how Mike prolly saw it.

[SMiLE Brian]

I've been thinking lately. I'd take Mike Love over Van Dyke Parks. It seems like Parks had too much control over the project, it was more of an open collaboration. With Tony Asher it sounded like Brian kept artistic control over the project, but it seems Van Dyke influenced the album quite a bit. Especially upon listening to Song Cycle. Recently, as I've listened to that album, I get the feeling more and more that SMiLE sounds more like Van Dyke Parks than it does Brian Wilson...

Also what's with Van Dyke walking off the project? I feel as if that story is only a small part of the big picture. Was Van Dyke really such a primadona that he wasn't willing to entertain questions? Think about it from Mike Love's perspective. Didn't he have a say in the material the band was putting out? It was his band just as much as it was Brian's wasn't it? Of course Brian's overall contributions outshine Mike's, Mike did contribute his fair share to the songs that made the band famous in the first place. He also was the onstage charisma that kept the BB touring up through the massive 4th of July shows over a decade later. I think in all fairness Mike Love deserved a say, he was a contributing member of the group, he deserved to have creative input. I think Mike gave Brian a lot of creative leeway and recognized his talents as a composer and producer, but when it came to SMiLE he had his right to be skeptical, he had his right to ask questions.

Was he really that obnoxious during the Cabinessence sessions? I can understand if Van Dyke Parks doesn't want to run around for the rest of his life and explain SMiLE to every tom dick and harry, but Mike Love was a member of the band, he was a contributer, he had a legal and creative say in what the band did. I don't think it was right for Van Dyke to just waltz off the project simply because he didn't like to entertain questions. If anybody had any right to question what Brian and Van Dyke were doing it was the other members of the group. I really don't buy that Van Dyke just walked away because Mike Love asked a couple of condescending questions.

Now I don't really like Mike Love that much as a musician, I don't like a lot of what he's done with the band, and I'm not particularly blown away by Mike Love as an artist. I don't agree with his opinion in regards to SMiLE, but I do think he was right in voicing it, I think he was right in being concerned, and I think he was within his rights to do what he did. He thought he was doing what was best for the group, and you can't fault him for that.

Fishmonk just nailed Mike's perspective in a nutshell and its a totally valid view of the Smile story in its own right.

Agreed. I think that's exactly how Mike prolly saw it.

History might have been different if Mike and Van Dyke had got some understanding and harmony on the album's direction instead of the trival cabinessence agruement happening.

[A Million Units In Jan!]

Meanwhile:
Who do you suppose wrote the lyrics to "He Gives Speeches"? I asked Van Dyke once, and he assured me very strongly it wasn't him. I haven't ever heard anyone take credit for them, interestingly. (I always thought they sounded like somebody trying to imitate Mr. Parks without really getting what he was doing...)

I always thought it was Brian trying to sound like VDP. Somehow I believe somebody came to the conclusion that it was recorded during a GV session. How they came to that conclusion, I don't know.

[A Million Units In Jan!]

History might have been different if Mike and Van Dyke had got some understanding and harmony on the album's direction instead of the trival cabinessence agruement happening.

IMO, the whole Cabinessence argument has been blown out of proportion, and blown  up to represent the beginning of the end of SMiLE. Sure, Mike didn't understand the lyrics, but he still did a damn fine job of singing them. I think over the years, VDP has blown that one instance of Mike questioning his lyrics into the sole (or at least the biggest) reason the album was junked. Even if Mike and Van came to an 'understanding', the album, I believe, would have still been left unfinished.

[SMiLE Brian]

History might have been different if Mike and Van Dyke had got some understanding and harmony on the album's direction instead of the trival cabinessence agruement happening.

IMO, the whole Cabinessence argument has been blown out of proportion, and blown  up to represent the beginning of the end of SMiLE. Sure, Mike didn't understand the lyrics, but he still did a damn fine job of singing them. I think over the years, VDP has blown that one instance of Mike questioning his lyrics into the sole (or at least the biggest) reason the album was junked. Even if Mike and Van came to an 'understanding', the album, I believe, would have still been left unfinished.

I agree with it might of been still not being finished because the man in charge, Brian had a lot of mental issues going on towards the end of the sessions along with many other complex issues including the lawsuit with capitol, creative problems with the album, and many others that slowly eroded his confidence .

[juggler]

Meanwhile:
Who do you suppose wrote the lyrics to "He Gives Speeches"? I asked Van Dyke once, and he assured me very strongly it wasn't him. I haven't ever heard anyone take credit for them, interestingly. (I always thought they sounded like somebody trying to imitate Mr. Parks without really getting what he was doing...)

I always thought it was Brian trying to sound like VDP. Somehow I believe somebody came to the conclusion that it was recorded during a GV session. How they came to that conclusion, I don't know.

If VDP didn't write those lyrics, why is he credited on She's Goin Bald?  Murry's modus operandi was to OMIT lyricists from songwriting credits not gratuitously add them.

[Dunderhead]

I agree that artists should have freedom. It was Brian's baby, and I think artists do need to have as much control over the final product as possible, they need to be able to realize their vision as honestly as possible.

That being said Mike Love wasn't some faceless corporate executive that was trying to hamper Brian's creativity. Mike was Brian's good friend and creative partner. Mike had sat next to Brian on many occasion to help him write songs. The two of them together wrote beautiful pieces like Warmth of the Sun. Maybe Brian had the overwhelming majority of say on the project, but I think you have to be fair to Mike. Even if Brian controlled 99% of the final project, Mike Love had a right to that 1%. I don't like Looking Back With Love, or Country Love, and I don't have much to say about Mike Love as an artist, only as a person involved in a complicated and messy endeavor whose key decisions he wasn't privy too.

And I do think that Brian DID have a great deal of creative freedom. The guy got something like 80 separate sessions to work on his album. There was a discussion here once estimating the cost of SMiLE, and it was quite high, somewhere in the $100,000+ range. To me, that's the definition of artistic freedom. I remember reading somewhere that the great Gary Usher was canned from his job at Columbia for the failure of the second Chad & Jeremy album. Not only did he manage to actually complete that album and get it into record stores, but he did it for a great deal less than what SMiLE ended up costing, and he still got fired. On the SMiLE project Brian had an unprecedented level of freedom, all the money he could ask for, enough sessions to record 20 albums, total artistic discretion over pretty much every level of production. And he STILL wasn't able to finish the album.

In my opinion, if Brian had managed to wrap up the project on schedule it would have been released. I think that if it had been totally prepped and ready to go out the door by Christmas, noone would have stood in the way of its release. Artistic freedom wasn't the problem, Mike Love wasn't the problem, drugs weren't the problem. The problem was somewhere inside of Brian, and somewhere within the SMiLE project as it was initially conceived.

I'm continually reminded of this passage from Goethe's excellent final novel,
"Dilettantes, when they have done their best, are wont to excuse themselves by saying the work is not yet finished. Of course, it can never be finished, because it was never begun properly. The master presents his work as finished after only a few strokes; polished or not, it is nevertheless complete. The cleverest dilettante gropes in uncertainty, and as the work grows, the original insecurity becomes ever more perceptible. At the very end, the initial failure is revealed, when it cannot be corrected, and so of course the work cannot be finished."
Not to admonish Brian, not to "blame" him, not to ignore his wonderful and very evident talents, but to suggest that whether the project was a success or failure was always up to Brian and Brian alone.

[onkster]

Re songwriting credits: Van Dyke also told me that that was pretty much a clusterfoda from the get-go--he said he got credited on "Bald" without having anything to do with it, and didn't get credited on other stuff that he did (I believe it might have been "Wonderful", credited only to Wilson?)

So I think people just weren't being very careful back then about the songwriting credits.

And Jack Rieley still doesn't get credit for the "Surf's Up" tag lyrics.