SMiLE Sessions box set!

[guitarfool2002]

Can someone please let me in on the Cabinessence mix in question, where Mike apparently hits a note sharp?

I have never heard nor perceived a note sharp on any official or semi-official mix of Cabinessence...if something official is going around with what some are hearing as a mistake I'd like to hear it.

***Having not heard it, I think they're blowing smoke. But anyway...

[pixletwin]

In my experience anyone who usually refers to things as "semitones" is usually someone who wants to sound smarter than they typically are. What is the word I am looking for? ... Ah yes, "pretension".

[Sam_BFC]

In my experience anyone who usually refers to things as "semitones" is usually someone who wants to sound smarter than they typically are.

But what of pretty much every working pro musician? 

[Bicyclerider]

why should we care? these mixes were approved by brian.  maybe his original intention was for mike to sing that part a little sharper? so i could give a shite about a hoffmanite

What they are saying is the edited piece with mikes vocal is running too fast, making the vocal sharp -the vocal is what is most esily heard to be off pitch.  The vocal wasn't flown in, the entire edit piece is off speed.  If you think Brian listened closely enough to catch a mistake like that and say "yes I want it off pitch there"- that seems pretty unlikely.

[tansen]

In my experience anyone who usually refers to things as "semitones" is usually someone who wants to sound smarter than they typically are. What is the word I am looking for? ... Ah yes, "pretension".

Not if you are a musician, a songwriter, or anyone with slight musical abilities.

[pixletwin]

Master of Music Composition here. 

Allow me to clarify. I have never met a respectable musician who talks about semitones with regards to a pop music recording.

[Sam_BFC]

Isit?

[pixletwin]

Yup. People who use words like that are blowing smoke. Just call it what it is. "Sharp" or "flat". Don't muck about with words that you think make you sound smarter or more "professional". 

[tansen]

Yup. People who use words like that are blowing smoke. Just call it what it is. "Sharp" or "flat". Don't muck about with words that you think make you sound smarter or more "professional". 

Better yet, use Hertz

Well, then you do know the importance of being able to distinguish between the 12 notes in the western scale, and i wouldn't say that it was pretentious if I asked you to play 'Toxic' a semi-tone up

[pixletwin]

Yup. People who use words like that are blowing smoke. Just call it what it is. "Sharp" or "flat". Don't muck about with words that you think make you sound smarter or more "professional".  

Better yet, use Hertz

Well, then you do know the importance of being able to distinguish between the 12 notes in the western scale, and i wouldn't say that it was pretentious if I asked you to play 'Toxic' a semi-tone up

lol

I would refuse to play it unless you specified what key you wanted it in. If I'm in "A", I want you to specify "Bb".  Otherwise someone might try it in A# and hurt themselves!  

[LostArt]

why should we care? these mixes were approved by brian.  maybe his original intention was for mike to sing that part a little sharper? so i could give a shite about a hoffmanite

What they are saying is the edited piece with mikes vocal is running too fast, making the vocal sharp -the vocal is what is most esily heard to be off pitch.  The vocal wasn't flown in, the entire edit piece is off speed.  If you think Brian listened closely enough to catch a mistake like that and say "yes I want it off pitch there"- that seems pretty unlikely.

I've read that the vocal is off pitch, I've read that the vocal is sped up.  You are saying that the entire backing track and vocal speeds up?  At what point in the song does this happen, exactly?

[Les P]

I am a very amateur ProTools user, but when adjusting pitch, "semitones" and "cents" are units used.  I haven't heard the CE 45 so I have no opinion on the part in question.  But I can understand why studio engineering types would be more likely to speak in terms of "semitones" instead of "flat" or "sharp."

[pixletwin]

I am a very amateur ProTools user, but when adjusting pitch, "semitones" and "cents" are units used.  I haven't heard the CE 45 so I have no opinion on the part in question.  But I can understand why studio engineering types would be more likely to speak in terms of "semitones" instead of "flat" or "sharp."

Good point. I withdraw my "poo-poo". 

[tansen]

Yup. People who use words like that are blowing smoke. Just call it what it is. "Sharp" or "flat". Don't muck about with words that you think make you sound smarter or more "professional".  

Better yet, use Hertz

Well, then you do know the importance of being able to distinguish between the 12 notes in the western scale, and i wouldn't say that it was pretentious if I asked you to play 'Toxic' a semi-tone up

lol

I would refuse to play it unless you specified what key you wanted it in. If I'm in "A", I want you to specify "Bb".  Otherwise someone might try it in A# and hurt themselves!  

Haha - right on.

[tansen]

Oh, and by the way, Mike does not appear to be a full semi tone sharp, that would be really audible. But it almost sounds like tape wow/flutter (e.g. a variation in phase/frequency/amplitude) on the instrumental backing/bg vocal track. Or of course it could be that it was somehow played at a slower speed when mixed with the vocal take, but I somehow doubt that. But yes, there is not doubt that Mike's vocal appear slight sharp against the instrumental/backing.

[Andrew G. Doe]

But yes, there is not doubt that Mike's vocal appear slight sharp against the instrumental/backing.

Interesting... 

[Cam Mott]

Why does it matter?

[JMZ]

But yes, there is not doubt that Mike's vocal appear slight sharp against the instrumental/backing.

Interesting... 

I just listened to the Youtube rip; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KntylDaudk&feature=youtu.be

Actually it slows down at 2'30"/2'31" on the video, then speeds up (slightly upper than before the slow down) @ 2'35" ... As someone said, it's not Mike Love singing too high, it's rather some kind of wobbling.

Does this occur at the very same place on everyone's vinyl ? Then it's at the record cutting that something may have occured.

[LetHimRun]

But yes, there is not doubt that Mike's vocal appear slight sharp against the instrumental/backing.

Interesting...  

I just listened to the Youtube rip; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KntylDaudk&feature=youtu.be

Actually it slows down at 2'30"/2'31" on the video, then speeds up (slightly upper than before the slow down) @ 2'35" ... As someone said, it's not Mike Love singing too high, it's rather some kind of wobbling.

Does this occur at the very same place on everyone's vinyl ? Then it's at the record cutting that something may have occured.

There is definitely something that goes on at 2:37 because even the "ting tinging" on the backing track gets immediately louder and slightly faster right as Mike sings (it doesn't do that on my 20/20 mix, it's a smooth transition). There seems to be an edit there.

[buddhahat]

I haven't scrutinized the new Cabinessence mix. All I can hear is that Mike's "Over & over" line sounds ever so slightly out of pitch, particularly when he sings "field". Is that what everybody is noticing, or something else?

When I listen to the original mix Mike's vocal also sounds out of pitch, just much quieter. Are we sure these perceived faults aren't just down to Mike's vocal being much louder and therefore more obvious?

[vintagemusic]

SEMITONE


I believe, after years of observation. George Martin the Beatles producer, and a few other
English Blokes of the 60's era used the term "Semitone" regarding the Beatles reunion song
"Real Love" from 1995, And some of the simpy primpy Hoffmanite worshippers read about
George Martin and Jeff Lynne referring to a semitone change in the speed of the finished
recording

Extrapolate 15 years in the future, and these meaty "experts" now toss semitone around


Usually musicians would say Half Step, at least in America, maybe in Britain it's different.

But in  a nutshell the whole semitone reference is an infection from the weighty & meaty
Hoffmanite experts who read some stories in te press in 95 regarding the Beatle reunion
There's a few other phrases they like such as "Across the pond" meaning the crossing
the Atlantic from the USA to Britain.

They take on other people's characteristics like that Woody Allen movie Zelig.
or as I prefer to say Dusty old windbags


I would guess the pitch problem people are hearing is probably limited to that pressing
for the free 45 included in the magazine.

I would be surprised if the actual CD sounds like that,

If the mistake does go to the actual mix itself. I am sure they read about it on one of these
threads and will correct it. I would guess a free 45 included in a magazine in the vinyl format
could easily get screwed up. How many people even know how to make vinyl anymore especially
a 45, maybe the lathe they cut the matrix on or a really cheap grade of vinyl who knows

I think its good classic 60's records are all full of little mistakes like that.

Ok thanks for letting me give my twenty cents

[Andrew G. Doe]

I haven't scrutinized the new Cabinessence mix. All I can hear is that Mike's "Over & over" line sounds ever so slightly out of pitch, particularly when he sings "field". Is that what everybody is noticing, or something else?

When I listen to the original mix Mike's vocal also sounds out of pitch, just much quieter. Are we sure these perceived faults aren't just down to Mike's vocal being much louder and therefore more obvious?

 

And FWIW, I recall the word "semitone" being used by my grammar school music tutor, back in the late 60s. He was a cousin of Diana Dors, but that's another story entirely.

[The Heartical Don]

I haven't scrutinized the new Cabinessence mix. All I can hear is that Mike's "Over & over" line sounds ever so slightly out of pitch, particularly when he sings "field". Is that what everybody is noticing, or something else?

When I listen to the original mix Mike's vocal also sounds out of pitch, just much quieter. Are we sure these perceived faults aren't just down to Mike's vocal being much louder and therefore more obvious?

 

And FWIW, I recall the word "semitone" being used by my grammar school music tutor, back in the late 60s. He was a cousin of Diana Dors, but that's another story entirely.

...although you might entertain us with some juicy Diana Dors stories during this hellish waiting torture... e.g. about her, em, how shall I put it, being generously equipped with, um, you know, eh, h**ters...

[vintagemusic]

I haven't scrutinized the new Cabinessence mix. All I can hear is that Mike's "Over & over" line sounds ever so slightly out of pitch, particularly when he sings "field". Is that what everybody is noticing, or something else?

When I listen to the original mix Mike's vocal also sounds out of pitch, just much quieter. Are we sure these perceived faults aren't just down to Mike's vocal being much louder and therefore more obvious?

 

And FWIW, I recall the word "semitone" being used by my grammar school music tutor, back in the late 60s. He was a cousin of Diana Dors, but that's another story entirely.

Who's real name believe it or not, (Diana Dors) was Diana Fluck. Maybe it's just me but that strikes me funny.

She was a hottie like Jayne Mansfield or something wasn't she?

[LostArt]

The vocal wasn't flown in, the entire edit piece is off speed.

But yes, there is not doubt that Mike's vocal appear slight sharp against the instrumental/backing.

See, this is what I've been seeing.  Most can not agree whether the voice is sharp against the backing track, or if the whole track speeds up.  Some don't hear anything at all wrong. 

Actually it slows down at 2'30"/2'31" on the video, then speeds up (slightly upper than before the slow down) @ 2'35" ... As someone said, it's not Mike Love singing too high, it's rather some kind of wobbling.

Does this occur at the very same place on everyone's vinyl ? Then it's at the record cutting that something may have occured.

Without hearing these 45 rpm record sourced mp3s, this is what I suspect is happening.