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Author Topic: Carolyn Williams  (Read 26087 times)
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« Reply #75 on: July 17, 2015, 11:05:48 AM »

Wait... between those photos being taken, someone moved the radio antenna !

Well, of course, that can only mean one thing...

You're a grassy knoll kinda guy LOL!
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« Reply #76 on: February 19, 2016, 10:46:50 PM »

They are interesting pictures. Thanks for sharing.  Shocked
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« Reply #77 on: February 20, 2016, 01:04:39 AM »

Brian's sitting on the arm of the couch, of course.
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« Reply #78 on: February 21, 2016, 09:54:16 PM »

The stories about Brian and Carolyn are interesting according the books and articles I read about them. Were they ever married? Or just live together with her children?  Either way I assume Carolyn really loved him. Who couldn't love Brian?!❤️
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« Reply #79 on: February 22, 2016, 02:58:25 AM »

The stories about Brian and Carolyn are interesting according the books and articles I read about them. Were they ever married? Or just live together with her children?  Either way I assume Carolyn really loved him. Who couldn't love Brian?!❤️

Carolyn was his nurse. They did have an affair, I'm told, but they were never married. 
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« Reply #80 on: February 22, 2016, 10:33:45 AM »

Wasn't the Gaines book the first source to claim that Al didn't like Carolyn? I found the accusation quite shocking and unrealistic really, it was Al's idea to do a cover of Cottenfields which is by Huddie Ledbetter and Sloop John B is a West Indies folk song, pretty strange choices for a guy who allegedly doesn't like black people

Yep. And Blondie and Rikki were coloured, yes? (Only know B&W photos of them).
[/quote


  




If by "coloured" you mean black, then no.  Ricky is not black. 
« Last Edit: February 22, 2016, 10:43:34 AM by marcella27 » Logged
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« Reply #81 on: February 22, 2016, 10:56:20 AM »

I have read somewhere that it was Al who brought The Flame to Carl's attention.
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« Reply #82 on: February 22, 2016, 11:01:32 AM »

From my experience at the time, Carolyn was a very positive force in Brian's life.  O.K., for sure he wasn't in a good way, but she was so careful about making certain that he took his meds on schedule, (and keep in mind, this was before the over-medication started), and was very supportive of his music.  And, while she did allow him to indulge somewhat, she was very guarded in that respect, too.  If Dennis & I showed up at the house with beer, she would make sure we didn't enter with more than a 6 pack, knowing the 3 of us would fight to have our 2 each!  (Of course Dennis & I might be sneaking outside to have an occasional extra 1 or 2).  But it was very much about the music, and being a home body.  Things didn't start getting out of control until they had him back on the road...
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« Reply #83 on: February 22, 2016, 01:34:56 PM »

Wasn't the Gaines book the first source to claim that Al didn't like Carolyn? I found the accusation quite shocking and unrealistic really, it was Al's idea to do a cover of Cottenfields which is by Huddie Ledbetter and Sloop John B is a West Indies folk song, pretty strange choices for a guy who allegedly doesn't like black people

Yep. And Blondie and Rikki were coloured, yes? (Only know B&W photos of them).

If by "coloured" you mean black, then no.  Ricky is not black. 

I believe they were classed as "Cape coloureds", meaning, essentially, non-whites of mixed race & ancestry (i.e., not Zulu or the like)
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« Reply #84 on: February 22, 2016, 01:36:11 PM »

From my experience at the time, Carolyn was a very positive force in Brian's life.  O.K., for sure he wasn't in a good way, but she was so careful about making certain that he took his meds on schedule, (and keep in mind, this was before the over-medication started), and was very supportive of his music.  And, while she did allow him to indulge somewhat, she was very guarded in that respect, too.  If Dennis & I showed up at the house with beer, she would make sure we didn't enter with more than a 6 pack, knowing the 3 of us would fight to have our 2 each!  (Of course Dennis & I might be sneaking outside to have an occasional extra 1 or 2).  But it was very much about the music, and being a home body.  Things didn't start getting out of control until they had him back on the road...

Further, it was Landy who removed her from Brian's life, a shabby episode if ever there was one.
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« Reply #85 on: February 22, 2016, 02:08:22 PM »

Wasn't the Gaines book the first source to claim that Al didn't like Carolyn? I found the accusation quite shocking and unrealistic really, it was Al's idea to do a cover of Cottenfields which is by Huddie Ledbetter and Sloop John B is a West Indies folk song, pretty strange choices for a guy who allegedly doesn't like black people

Yep. And Blondie and Rikki were coloured, yes? (Only know B&W photos of them).

If by "coloured" you mean black, then no.  Ricky is not black. 

I believe they were classed as "Cape coloureds", meaning, essentially, non-whites of mixed race & ancestry (i.e., not Zulu or the like)


Interesting.  The Wikipedia article for Ricky Fataar states that he is "of Cape Malay" descent, an ethnic group of South Africans that are largely of Southeast Asian ethnicity. 
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« Reply #86 on: February 22, 2016, 02:16:38 PM »

Wasn't the Gaines book the first source to claim that Al didn't like Carolyn? I found the accusation quite shocking and unrealistic really, it was Al's idea to do a cover of Cottenfields which is by Huddie Ledbetter and Sloop John B is a West Indies folk song, pretty strange choices for a guy who allegedly doesn't like black people

Yep. And Blondie and Rikki were coloured, yes? (Only know B&W photos of them).

If by "coloured" you mean black, then no.  Ricky is not black. 

I believe they were classed as "Cape coloureds", meaning, essentially, non-whites of mixed race & ancestry (i.e., not Zulu or the like)


Interesting.  The Wikipedia article for Ricky Fataar states that he is "of Cape Malay" descent, an ethnic group of South Africans that are largely of Southeast Asian ethnicity. 
'coloured' was a legal designation. Under the Population Registration Act of 1950, all citizens had to register as either "white', 'black' or 'coloured'. Your legal status effected your representation, schooling and residential area, among other things. Your designation depended not just on ancestry, but your appearance, associations, cultural habits, etc. In some cases, families were split up because of skin/hair variation within the family. Cape Coloureds and Cape Malays were legally 'Coloured'.

** edit to change reply to Marcella27, not AGD.
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« Reply #87 on: February 22, 2016, 02:32:47 PM »

I have to say that in my extensive interviews for my book a few insiders made some disturbing allegations about racial views of some of the bbs but it's always got to be taken with a grain of salt.  You are hearing one persons allegations about things that happened in the past and that person may have an axe to grind. Who knows!
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« Reply #88 on: February 23, 2016, 07:22:00 AM »


'coloured' was a legal designation. Under the Population Registration Act of 1950, all citizens had to register as either "white', 'black' or 'coloured'. Your legal status effected your representation, schooling and residential area, among other things. Your designation depended not just on ancestry, but your appearance, associations, cultural habits, etc. In some cases, families were split up because of skin/hair variation within the family. Cape Coloureds and Cape Malays were legally 'Coloured'.

** edit to change reply to Marcella27, not AGD.

In an interview, Trevor Noah, host of the Daily Show, talked about growing up in apartheid South Africa. His father was white and his mother was black. He was designated as "colored." As a result, he was not supposed to be seen with his mother in public, as legally, she wasn't supposed to have a "colored" child because that would mean his father was white. So whenever they went out, she had to pretend to be his family's housekeeper, escorting him around for his "real" parents. Very messed up.  Anyway, sorry for the off-topic post, but these designations were very complex and painful.
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« Reply #89 on: February 23, 2016, 12:50:41 PM »

I'm sorry too for taking this thread off-topic. In a North American setting, the term "colored" is an obsolete term for black or African American.  I wasn't aware of the different use in apartheid-era South Africa.  I made my initial comment because I've seen many articles (not here) that refer to Blondie and Ricky as "two black musicians from South Africa" who joined the BB.  It always strikes me as lazy journalism/writing when I read something like that and is a pet peeve of mine.   

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« Reply #90 on: February 23, 2016, 02:38:28 PM »

Cape Malays, sometimes known as Cape Muslims.  There was once a muslim Beach Boy?  Never occurred to me before.
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« Reply #91 on: February 26, 2016, 11:13:31 AM »

OK, let me put it to you this way:

Ricky is definitely not white.
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« Reply #92 on: February 26, 2016, 02:34:23 PM »

Most here claim to be enlightened, but it seems to me that many of you are uncomfortable even talking about race.  Just an observation.

I doubt that the Beach Boys of the 1960s, 70s and 80s were any more or less bigoted than 90 percent of the population of that era.
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« Reply #93 on: February 27, 2016, 03:12:19 AM »

You need to understand that The Beach Boys came from backgrounds that would be regarded as unsophisticated these days, and that Hawthorne was little more than a hick town in the 50s.
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« Reply #94 on: February 27, 2016, 07:04:57 PM »

I hear Carolyn attended Beach Boys meetings and concerts. Reminds me of Yoko Ono when she used to attend Beatles recording sessions.
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« Reply #95 on: February 28, 2016, 02:11:50 PM »

OK, let me put it to you this way:

Ricky is definitely not white.

True, but...so what? He's not white so he must be black? I don't get your point. 
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« Reply #96 on: February 28, 2016, 02:19:31 PM »

I hear Carolyn attended Beach Boys meetings and concerts. Reminds me of Yoko Ono when she used to attend Beatles recording sessions.

But Carolyn was caring for and looking out for the interests of a man who was in deeply bad shape, and who largely couldn't handle things on his own at the time. Completely different situation with Lennon and Yoko.
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« Reply #97 on: February 28, 2016, 07:39:46 PM »

OK, let me put it to you this way:

Ricky is definitely not white.

True, but...so what? He's not white so he must be black? I don't get your point. 

No, my point is...he is not white. Period. He could be green for all we know. Just to pretty much shut up the people discussing it above. Whatever he is, he's not caucasian.
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« Reply #98 on: February 29, 2016, 02:00:28 AM »

No, my point is...he is not white. Period. He could be green for all we know. Just to pretty much shut up the people discussing it above. Whatever he is, he's not caucasian.

No-one claimed he was.
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« Reply #99 on: March 04, 2016, 07:50:10 AM »

What gets me is that the H&V book described Carolyn Williams as "overweight." Sure as hell looks not overweight at all in that picture....then again, I guess anybody next to Brian at that period in his life...
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