Thread for various insignificant questions that don't deserve their own thread!

[Pretty Funky]

Is this the same?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Smile-Sessions-by-The-Beach-Boys/183878212590?epid=0&hash=item2acffedbee:g:bAUAAOSwtYddO3RK

[All Summer Long]

Am I the only one who doesn’t hear Carl supposedly say “shunshine” during Soulful Old Man Sunshine?

You don't hear it at 2:08?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcS8MmrYoYY

Ok, I hear it now. Never knew it only happened one time. Thought Carl sang that every time. And he vetoed its release because of one word? Crazy.

[HeyJude]

I don’t know how much info is really available in terms of Carl’s alleged vetoing of “Soulful Old Man Sunshine” from the 1993 GV boxed set, but the impression I always got (which may be totally off) is that he had a larger distaste or skepticism or uneasiness about the song, or at least the extant recording. I think he still remembered it being an “unfinished” song, and perhaps the “Shunshine” thing was just one example of it clearly being unfinished, as they presumably would have gone back and fixed that if they had intended to release it back then. Indeed, I believe the 1998 “Endless Harmony” version of the song had to be stitched together from a few sources (resulting in some parts being mixed into wider stereo, some parts having more finished-sounding overdubs while others didn’t, etc.) to make the most “complete” version.

I’ve heard a number of examples of BB members over the years having uneasy feelings about putting out archival stuff because of feeling it’s “unfinished.” This may be one of the reasons why it has historically been more difficult to get post 60s archival material released, as more band members had a hand in later era recordings. I recall years ago talking to someone involved in the 2002 release of the “Knebworth 1980” show on DVD and CD, and it was mentioned that they honored Bruce’s request to cut out “I Write the Songs”, and it was also mentioned that Bruce was skeptical (my words) of releasing Knebworth because he felt it was never “finished”; he probably remembered the multiple attempts to overdub the material and also that it was never released. He even mentioned at that time that he felt the Washington DC 1980 show as a better choice to release, probably because he remembered that that project was “finished” in that he did overdubs and then it was aired and was thus a “complete” project.

I’m not sure, but I have a vague recollection Al (or someone) didn’t want “Loop de Loop” on the 1993 GV boxed set because it was considered “unfinished.”

[CenturyDeprived]

I’ve heard a number of examples of BB members over the years having uneasy feelings about putting out archival stuff because of feeling it’s “unfinished.” This may be one of the reasons why it has historically been more difficult to get post 60s archival material released, as more band members had a hand in later era recordings. I recall years ago talking to someone involved in the 2002 release of the “Knebworth 1980” show on DVD and CD, and it was mentioned that they honored Bruce’s request to cut out “I Write the Songs”, and it was also mentioned that Bruce was skeptical (my words) of releasing Knebworth because he felt it was never “finished”; he probably remembered the multiple attempts to overdub the material and also that it was never released. He even mentioned at that time that he felt the Washington DC 1980 show as a better choice to release, probably because he remembered that that project was “finished” in that he did overdubs and then it was aired and was thus a “complete” project.
 

I still can hardly believe that the band gave the thumbs up to adding Autotune to Mike's lead vocals on Knebworth. The idea of adding some awful modern technology to "fix" a 1980 recording, I just remember that when it dawned on me that it was sounding weird, it hit me in a way that's almost akin to having eaten part of a piece of pie only to grimace and find out it's been sweetened with some awful 1980s NutraSweet artificial sweetener.  Might that be the earliest released example of Autotune on a Beach Boys release? (Brian's solo "Imagination" album excepted).

[c-man]

I don’t know how much info is really available in terms of Carl’s alleged vetoing of “Soulful Old Man Sunshine” from the 1993 GV boxed set, but the impression I always got (which may be totally off) is that he had a larger distaste or skepticism or uneasiness about the song, or at least the extant recording. I think he still remembered it being an “unfinished” song, and perhaps the “Shunshine” thing was just one example of it clearly being unfinished, as they presumably would have gone back and fixed that if they had intended to release it back then. Indeed, I believe the 1998 “Endless Harmony” version of the song had to be stitched together from a few sources (resulting in some parts being mixed into wider stereo, some parts having more finished-sounding overdubs while others didn’t, etc.) to make the most “complete” version.

I’m not sure, but I have a vague recollection Al (or someone) didn’t want “Loop de Loop” on the 1993 GV boxed set because it was considered “unfinished.”

It seems that the "Soulful" release is of a vintage edit of rough mixes spliced together back in the day by Dennis Dragon (who was Rick Henn's brother-in-law). Rick talks about it in a 1997 ESQ article (this was a year before the song's release). I first heard it when it was played down the phone line by David Leaf to Domenic Priore and me in '92, during the assembly of the '93 Good Vibrations box set. Meaning, it existed in that state back then, and based on Rick's comments, probably long before that.

As for "Loop" - correct, Al vetoed its release until '98 because he considered it unfinished until then.

[HeyJude]

I don’t know how much info is really available in terms of Carl’s alleged vetoing of “Soulful Old Man Sunshine” from the 1993 GV boxed set, but the impression I always got (which may be totally off) is that he had a larger distaste or skepticism or uneasiness about the song, or at least the extant recording. I think he still remembered it being an “unfinished” song, and perhaps the “Shunshine” thing was just one example of it clearly being unfinished, as they presumably would have gone back and fixed that if they had intended to release it back then. Indeed, I believe the 1998 “Endless Harmony” version of the song had to be stitched together from a few sources (resulting in some parts being mixed into wider stereo, some parts having more finished-sounding overdubs while others didn’t, etc.) to make the most “complete” version.

I’m not sure, but I have a vague recollection Al (or someone) didn’t want “Loop de Loop” on the 1993 GV boxed set because it was considered “unfinished.”

It seems that the "Soulful" release is of a vintage edit of rough mixes spliced together back in the day by Dennis Dragon (who was Rick Henn's brother-in-law). Rick talks about it in a 1997 ESQ article (this was a year before the song's release). I first heard it when it was played down the phone line by David Leaf to Domenic Priore and me in '92, during the assembly of the '93 Good Vibrations box set. Meaning, it existed in that state back then, and based on Rick's comments, probably long before that.

As for "Loop" - correct, Al vetoed its release until '98 because he considered it unfinished until then.

Excellent info, thanks!

I definitely remembered reading that the released "Soulful" mix was a hodge podge of mixes, basically piecing something together with slightly unfinished parts. Even if I hadn't read that, the track on the EH Soundtrack clearly indicates it is taken from more than one source, and more than one mix. Interesting that it comes from a vintage mix.

I recall reading some other details at some point about the state of the extant tapes for "Soulful", how apparently some elements of what we hear on the released mix don't exist on any extant multi-tracks, only on whatever rough mixes exist.

[HeyJude]

I don’t know how much info is really available in terms of Carl’s alleged vetoing of “Soulful Old Man Sunshine” from the 1993 GV boxed set, but the impression I always got (which may be totally off) is that he had a larger distaste or skepticism or uneasiness about the song, or at least the extant recording. I think he still remembered it being an “unfinished” song, and perhaps the “Shunshine” thing was just one example of it clearly being unfinished, as they presumably would have gone back and fixed that if they had intended to release it back then. Indeed, I believe the 1998 “Endless Harmony” version of the song had to be stitched together from a few sources (resulting in some parts being mixed into wider stereo, some parts having more finished-sounding overdubs while others didn’t, etc.) to make the most “complete” version.

I’m not sure, but I have a vague recollection Al (or someone) didn’t want “Loop de Loop” on the 1993 GV boxed set because it was considered “unfinished.”

It seems that the "Soulful" release is of a vintage edit of rough mixes spliced together back in the day by Dennis Dragon (who was Rick Henn's brother-in-law). Rick talks about it in a 1997 ESQ article (this was a year before the song's release). I first heard it when it was played down the phone line by David Leaf to Domenic Priore and me in '92, during the assembly of the '93 Good Vibrations box set. Meaning, it existed in that state back then, and based on Rick's comments, probably long before that.

As for "Loop" - correct, Al vetoed its release until '98 because he considered it unfinished until then.

Found an old post from 2006 from Mark Linett where he commented briefly on the track. Here's what he said back then regarding where the mix on EH came from:

The tape was a two-track that came from Rick Henn and was something he put together from old ruff mixes. Only the original tracking date with some overdubs exists on multi-track. The tape with the vocals is missing.

Mark

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,201.msg4160.html#msg4160

[roffels]

If you have a copy on the 1983 Brother Records Smile bootleg, can you tell me who's performing "Vege-Tables"? Because it sounds like a Beach Boys cover band.

[ForHerCryingSoul]

Here's a funny Brianism I found in an Q&A with Todd Rundgren:

"...when I met Brian he had no attention span. First thing he said when I got to his house was, “I have the new Roy Wood single!” And he would put it on and play 15 seconds of it. Then he took it off, ran over to the piano and started tinkling out something, and then 20 seconds after that he was off doing another thing."

 

Didn't know he was a fan of Roy Wood! Any other artists Brian is a fan of that is sort of left field?

[c-man]

If you have a copy on the 1983 Brother Records Smile bootleg, can you tell me who's performing "Vege-Tables"? Because it sounds like a Beach Boys cover band.

I don't have that one, but I seem to recall that it's Laughing Gravy (comprised of Dean, Brian, Marilyn and Diane).

[c-man]

Here's a funny Brianism I found in an Q&A with Todd Rundgren:

"...when I met Brian he had no attention span. First thing he said when I got to his house was, “I have the new Roy Wood single!” And he would put it on and play 15 seconds of it. Then he took it off, ran over to the piano and started tinkling out something, and then 20 seconds after that he was off doing another thing."

 

Didn't know he was a fan of Roy Wood! Any other artists Brian is a fan of that is sort of left field?

Well, Brian and Roy did record together in late '74...which is where the track for "It's OK" came from.

[roffels]

If you have a copy on the 1983 Brother Records Smile bootleg, can you tell me who's performing "Vege-Tables"? Because it sounds like a Beach Boys cover band.

I don't have that one, but I seem to recall that it's Laughing Gravy (comprised of Dean, Brian, Marilyn and Diane).

Thank you!

[roffels]

Did Tiny Tim and the Beach Boys ever appear on the same bill? A friend mentioned seeing both together as a young child and I'd like to get more info. Seems like an odd pairing.

[WillJC]

.

[LavenderBlueMama]

Well, I finally finished making my way through all 272 (at this point) pages of this insignificant thread, which was a somewhat significant task (at least to me). Thank you to all the questioners, answerers, & arguers, who have contributed through the years. I'm a Beach Boys neophyte for sure, so the history, whether accurate, sourced, or speculative, all adds color to the music that I love, & learn more about each day. Most significant of all, is that I now have the never to be finished snippet of Daddy Dear, (that may or may not have been sung by Brian, or Al, or perhaps an amalgam of the two?) permanently playing in my brain, as part of the never-ending,  ever- evolving BB medley that has apparently now become the internal soundtrack of my life. It's getting crowded up in there & I think I need a new secretary - the way that crazy chick organizes song synapses is maddening. Why oh why would the medley go from Kiss Me Baby, to Surf's Up, to Monkey's Uncle, to now Daddy Dear?! I guess she must be tired of the Sounds Of Summer CD, I often default to in the car. Calm down crazy girl, That's Why God Made The Radio!

[NateRuvin]

Can anybody tell me about the dimensions of Gold Star's legendary Echo Chamber?

Also, what speakers and microphone(s) were used?

Such a magical sound, so integral to the BBs and Phil Spector sound.

[Pretty Funky]

This it?

http://audiogeekzine.com/2011/02/the-history-of-echo-echo-chambers-chambers/

Gold Star Studios is arguably the most famous example of a reverb chamber. Phil Spector made Gold Star his home while recording the early hits of his career, and its reverb chamber played a key role in Phil’s infamous Wall of Sound. If other studios included reverb chambers as fringe benefits, Gold Star included it as a downright necessity. A cramped room where elbow room amongst musicians was a legitimate concern, the reverb chamber was the saving grace. In a Mix Magazine article, Larry Lavine testifies to the speaker in the chamber being a cheap 8-inch speaker being picked up by an equally cheap ribbon microphone (bi-directional). The chambers were a mere 2×3 feet, but the cement lining did wonders to enlarge that. You can hear this reverb on The Ronettes’ Be My Baby, parts of Pet Sounds, and other staples of that era in recording.

[linusoli]

The chambers were a mere 2×3 feet, but the cement lining did wonders to enlarge that.

How is this even possible? Is cement really *that* reflective?

[clack]

The new Steve Carell tv show 'Space Force' features Steve giving his rendition of 'Kokomo' in order to comfort himself. And the latest episode of 'What We Do In the Shadows' has a scene in which our vampire protagonists bomb with song after song at a club -- until, that is, they start singing 'Kokomo', and have the previously booing crowd join in.

How galling is it that of all the great songs the band put out, it is the novelty record 'Kokomo' that has the firmest purchase on the mainstream popular culture -- the most remembered, the most beloved?

[c-man]

The new Steve Carell tv show 'Space Force' features Steve giving his rendition of 'Kokomo' in order to comfort himself. And the latest episode of 'What We Do In the Shadows' has a scene in which our vampire protagonists bomb with song after song at a club -- until, that is, they start singing 'Kokomo', and have the previously booing crowd join in.

How galling is it that of all the great songs the band put out, it is the novelty record 'Kokomo' that has the firmest purchase on the mainstream popular culture -- the most remembered, the most beloved?

If it wasn't "Kokomo", it'd probably be "Barbara Ann".

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Here’s a question....very important one at that....

Since Fig Plucker wasn’t included in the 1969 reissue last year, does that mean it’s now a public domain song?

Seriously though (although I am curious ) just wanted to say I’m making this thread a sticky as it serves almost as an FAQ thread

[Sam_BFC]

You can hear this reverb on The Ronettes’ Be My Baby, parts of Pet Sounds, and other staples of that era in recording.

The only track from Pet Sounds that was recorded at Gold Star was Wouldn't It Be Nice, right?

The chambers were a mere 2×3 feet, but the cement lining did wonders to enlarge that.

How is this even possible? Is cement really *that* reflective?

Calculations suggest yes, but looks bigger than that in the image shown in this article
https://reverb.com/news/6-echo-chambers-that-shaped-the-sound-of-popular-music

[WillJC]

.

[twentytwenty]

The new Steve Carell tv show 'Space Force' features Steve giving his rendition of 'Kokomo' in order to comfort himself. And the latest episode of 'What We Do In the Shadows' has a scene in which our vampire protagonists bomb with song after song at a club -- until, that is, they start singing 'Kokomo', and have the previously booing crowd join in.

How galling is it that of all the great songs the band put out, it is the novelty record 'Kokomo' that has the firmest purchase on the mainstream popular culture -- the most remembered, the most beloved?

I will always be a proud Kokomo defender, it's a damn catchy song!

[TheWonderfulHarpsichord]

What is the largest Brian/BB arrangement in terms of sheer number of instruments? Counting overdubs and all.

I’ve been thinking about it and Three Blind Mice is probably up there.