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Author Topic: Beach Boys (Mike/Bruce) appearing on CNN 4th of July special  (Read 5825 times)
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« Reply #50 on: July 07, 2021, 12:00:26 PM »

FWIW here's an audience shot compilation of different songs from the show:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXJ40flLQWI
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« Reply #51 on: July 07, 2021, 12:52:26 PM »


I would also say that there is probably less room to blame "bad TV mixing" on this CNN gig, because unlike some deals where a band appears on a TV show specifically for TV (e.g. a talk show or something), on this July 4th thing, CNN was mostly just tapping into live audio and video feeds from various regular concerts, almost surely using the in-house audio feed.


CNN or other network engineers working with live feeds are not balancing individual instrument and vocal tracks on their boards and creating another mix when they do a live feed like this one in Ft Lauderdale. The mix is usually taken direct from the in-house feed from the band's or the venue's board going to the audience. If a separate mix is done for the broadcast remote, it's not done by the television crew tapping into the feed. Whatever balancing issues were happening were happening at the board, at the venue. Why they were so off in some cases, like the 2nd supporting guitar being too hot in the mix of WIBN's intro whereas the lead 1st part was buried...who knows.

Even if CNN/network engineers are only being provided with some form of stereo/2 channel out from the board, is it conceivable that it is a different mix to the front of house mix? Maybe whoever was working the board was focused on that and the TV feed was an afterthought/set and forget situation.
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« Reply #52 on: July 07, 2021, 01:00:27 PM »


I would also say that there is probably less room to blame "bad TV mixing" on this CNN gig, because unlike some deals where a band appears on a TV show specifically for TV (e.g. a talk show or something), on this July 4th thing, CNN was mostly just tapping into live audio and video feeds from various regular concerts, almost surely using the in-house audio feed.


CNN or other network engineers working with live feeds are not balancing individual instrument and vocal tracks on their boards and creating another mix when they do a live feed like this one in Ft Lauderdale. The mix is usually taken direct from the in-house feed from the band's or the venue's board going to the audience. If a separate mix is done for the broadcast remote, it's not done by the television crew tapping into the feed. Whatever balancing issues were happening were happening at the board, at the venue. Why they were so off in some cases, like the 2nd supporting guitar being too hot in the mix of WIBN's intro whereas the lead 1st part was buried...who knows.

Even if CNN/network engineers are only being provided with some form of stereo/2 channel out from the board, is it conceivable that it is a different mix to the front of house mix? Maybe whoever was working the board was focused on that and the TV feed was an afterthought/set and forget situation.

Anything is possible, but they did know they were going live on national (world?) cable TV for a block of songs at some point. If the band's board guy wasn't focused on the mix going out to TV, that's pretty bad.
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« Reply #53 on: July 07, 2021, 05:04:41 PM »

I say this with love as Iím actually a really big fan of Stamos as an actor, and he really seems to be a great guy. He also do bring a lot of energy to the stage when heís on the guitar, but please, donít give him a pair of drumsticks ever again.

And, Mike, get rid of that beard, not pulling it off, at all.

2 am rant complete.
Carry on
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« Reply #54 on: July 07, 2021, 06:00:35 PM »


I would also say that there is probably less room to blame "bad TV mixing" on this CNN gig, because unlike some deals where a band appears on a TV show specifically for TV (e.g. a talk show or something), on this July 4th thing, CNN was mostly just tapping into live audio and video feeds from various regular concerts, almost surely using the in-house audio feed.


CNN or other network engineers working with live feeds are not balancing individual instrument and vocal tracks on their boards and creating another mix when they do a live feed like this one in Ft Lauderdale. The mix is usually taken direct from the in-house feed from the band's or the venue's board going to the audience. If a separate mix is done for the broadcast remote, it's not done by the television crew tapping into the feed. Whatever balancing issues were happening were happening at the board, at the venue. Why they were so off in some cases, like the 2nd supporting guitar being too hot in the mix of WIBN's intro whereas the lead 1st part was buried...who knows.

Even if CNN/network engineers are only being provided with some form of stereo/2 channel out from the board, is it conceivable that it is a different mix to the front of house mix? Maybe whoever was working the board was focused on that and the TV feed was an afterthought/set and forget situation.

Anything is possible, but they did know they were going live on national (world?) cable TV for a block of songs at some point. If the band's board guy wasn't focused on the mix going out to TV, that's pretty bad.

Yes there were some issues with the mix but as others have said, those aren't the issues that most people realized. Regarding those mix issues and details, it would be cool to see what kind of setup they're running, but I'm guessing it's automated to some degree where they can program certain things song to song, and look at how many guys are on that stage. You're looking at between 20 and 30 or more instrument and mic channels (2 drum kits, congas, 4 keyboards or more, 4 guitars and a bass, etc) and then there are, what, 10 or so vocal mics to cover everyone?

My original take was that no "outsider" from CNN or other broadcast venue who would do a live cut-in like this one would have the control over individual channels in a live mix, considering Mike has his own crew and they have both the gear and the knowledge of who does what with that many songs and musicians. I'm sure - pretty sure - that the situation is what we've been describing. They take the feed from that board, and whatever mix is done is what they tap into. No one outside the band's or the venue's own staff is balancing tracks and plugging in outboard units and the like.

And factor in too the on-stage monitoring system with all those instruments and voices. I'm sure they have someone to do monitor mixes for the band and then for each musician, whether it's in-ear or a floor monitor setup.

And all of this gets checked and rechecked in soundcheck and rehearsals prior to the show, and when a network TV crew is going to tap into the feed for a live broadcast, all of that is checked too and they're in constant live communication to make sure everything goes well, and everyone is given a heads-up when they're going live on air. They don't just randomly switch it on and cut into a feed with no notice.

We could hear some balance issues, but the issue, if some are trying to blame CNN's crew for those, isn't valid if the CNN crew did what is standard practice and tapped into the board mix that was going out to the house. Or, if yet another mix was done for the live feed - That would add up to *three* separate mixes (house, monitor, broadcast feed) for this show if that's the case - it was still someone in Mike's crew running that board who knew what to do during each song. I have no way of knowing but I doubt a separate broadcast mix was done.

And as HJ just said, it wouldn't be a set-and-forget situation, and if someone did that and walked away during the broadcast, that would be ridiculous and they'd probably be out.

Maybe a certain patch was lost, maybe a cable was pulled, maybe a channel dropped...who knows.

But the issues it seems most people had with that broadcast were not issues that a mix would help or hurt unless they dropped a bad singer's mic from the blend. 

The issues were in the performance itself, and I think that's what was bothering people watching. Hopefully whatever it was including those will be addressed and fixed.

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« Reply #55 on: July 07, 2021, 08:17:18 PM »

Yup appreciate that the performance and the mix are somewhat separate entities. Just more curious about the nerdy stuff.
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« Reply #56 on: July 08, 2021, 02:35:45 AM »


I would also say that there is probably less room to blame "bad TV mixing" on this CNN gig, because unlike some deals where a band appears on a TV show specifically for TV (e.g. a talk show or something), on this July 4th thing, CNN was mostly just tapping into live audio and video feeds from various regular concerts, almost surely using the in-house audio feed.


CNN or other network engineers working with live feeds are not balancing individual instrument and vocal tracks on their boards and creating another mix when they do a live feed like this one in Ft Lauderdale. The mix is usually taken direct from the in-house feed from the band's or the venue's board going to the audience. If a separate mix is done for the broadcast remote, it's not done by the television crew tapping into the feed. Whatever balancing issues were happening were happening at the board, at the venue. Why they were so off in some cases, like the 2nd supporting guitar being too hot in the mix of WIBN's intro whereas the lead 1st part was buried...who knows.

Even if CNN/network engineers are only being provided with some form of stereo/2 channel out from the board, is it conceivable that it is a different mix to the front of house mix? Maybe whoever was working the board was focused on that and the TV feed was an afterthought/set and forget situation.

Anything is possible, but they did know they were going live on national (world?) cable TV for a block of songs at some point. If the band's board guy wasn't focused on the mix going out to TV, that's pretty bad.

Yes there were some issues with the mix but as others have said, those aren't the issues that most people realized. Regarding those mix issues and details, it would be cool to see what kind of setup they're running, but I'm guessing it's automated to some degree where they can program certain things song to song, and look at how many guys are on that stage. You're looking at between 20 and 30 or more instrument and mic channels (2 drum kits, congas, 4 keyboards or more, 4 guitars and a bass, etc) and then there are, what, 10 or so vocal mics to cover everyone?

My original take was that no "outsider" from CNN or other broadcast venue who would do a live cut-in like this one would have the control over individual channels in a live mix, considering Mike has his own crew and they have both the gear and the knowledge of who does what with that many songs and musicians. I'm sure - pretty sure - that the situation is what we've been describing. They take the feed from that board, and whatever mix is done is what they tap into. No one outside the band's or the venue's own staff is balancing tracks and plugging in outboard units and the like.

And factor in too the on-stage monitoring system with all those instruments and voices. I'm sure they have someone to do monitor mixes for the band and then for each musician, whether it's in-ear or a floor monitor setup.

And all of this gets checked and rechecked in soundcheck and rehearsals prior to the show, and when a network TV crew is going to tap into the feed for a live broadcast, all of that is checked too and they're in constant live communication to make sure everything goes well, and everyone is given a heads-up when they're going live on air. They don't just randomly switch it on and cut into a feed with no notice.

We could hear some balance issues, but the issue, if some are trying to blame CNN's crew for those, isn't valid if the CNN crew did what is standard practice and tapped into the board mix that was going out to the house. Or, if yet another mix was done for the live feed - That would add up to *three* separate mixes (house, monitor, broadcast feed) for this show if that's the case - it was still someone in Mike's crew running that board who knew what to do during each song. I have no way of knowing but I doubt a separate broadcast mix was done.

And as HJ just said, it wouldn't be a set-and-forget situation, and if someone did that and walked away during the broadcast, that would be ridiculous and they'd probably be out.

Maybe a certain patch was lost, maybe a cable was pulled, maybe a channel dropped...who knows.

But the issues it seems most people had with that broadcast were not issues that a mix would help or hurt unless they dropped a bad singer's mic from the blend. 

The issues were in the performance itself, and I think that's what was bothering people watching. Hopefully whatever it was including those will be addressed and fixed.



The bad mix did make them sound worse than they actually did though, no matter how you spin it.
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« Reply #57 on: July 08, 2021, 08:43:32 AM »

WIBN and Sloop John B havenít  sounded great with Mikeís band for awhile . Sloop John B always sounds like the whole band trying to sing the lead at once and never quite in unison . WIBN is a tough lead . They still miss Al and Carl there the most .  It was a rough night for Mike and Bruce themselves mix or not . One of the worst Iíve ever heard Mike on California Girls . They need to pick the tempo of that back up . That being said  Both of their voices are so thin I think itís hard to get a mix for TV right . Their worst performances have been at these big shows . When you see them
In a smaller venue and the mix can be more controlled they both usually sound better .
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« Reply #58 on: July 08, 2021, 08:55:17 AM »

I guess at the end of the day, mixes and audio enhancements etc aside, the human ear decides what sounds good. They didn't sound good on the 4th as I watched it on CNN.

Sort of an aside, the Beach Boys ( and I definitely include Brian in this category) are the only of my favourite bands, that I always anticipate with some trepidation when I tune into see them on these types of shows. And I mean going back a ways, like Today show appearances of over a decade ago, etc. There are exceptions. That Reagan show pre reunion sounded pretty good - Al probably the key there. The 2012 Fallon appearance comes to mind. But I think these are not the norm. They should be.
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