gfxgfx
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
logo
 
gfx gfx
gfx
677856 Posts in 27371 Topics by 4046 Members - Latest Member: reecemorgan December 09, 2022, 05:48:25 PM
*
gfx*HomeHelpSearchCalendarLoginRegistergfx
gfxgfx
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.       « previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Picking apart the bonus tracks on the POB reissue  (Read 7097 times)
Jason
Guest
« on: July 06, 2008, 07:33:34 PM »

This is a thread for discussion about JUST the bonus tracks on the POB reissue. IMO the liners, as great as they are, were rather light on details about the bonus material.

Jon (Stebbins that is), you mentioned earlier that in the tape research for the POB reissue that many piano "demos" or run-throughs of many tracks were found. Was the Piano Variations track on the reissue one such demo or run-through, or was this an attempt at an actual song?

And what else is known about Album Tag? Brad Elliott listed a cryptic date (5/12/77 I believe) of recording but nothing else is known about it. It sounds like a voice/piano track that Dennis later stuck between two heavy synth/percussion segments. The "lyrics" sound like Dennis just improvising with words as he noodles on the piano. Is there any more info on this one?
Logged
MBE
Guest
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2008, 09:28:08 PM »

Some of those unreleased and unbooted songs are really good. I really like Time For Bed and Love Remember Me. I think he made the right decision about using End Of Show over Tug Of Love though. Only With You is nice, Are You Real has a fantastic ending. It's weird hearing how much slower the masters of It's Not Too Late and Under The Moonlight are compared to the boot. I like them very much either way but it took me a few plays to get used to it. I wish Wild Situation had the "dirty ending" and the now now now now now part. It's really cool to hear it all mixed together though with the backing vocals.  I must be in the minority but the L.A. Light version of Love Surrounds Me sounds more finished to me. Nice to have All Alone on vinyl.
Logged
mikeyj
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1825



View Profile
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2008, 01:01:00 AM »

I think he made the right decision about using End Of Show over Tug Of Love though.

Wasn't it instead of Farewell My Friend?
Logged
MBE
Guest
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2008, 03:11:05 AM »

The notes say End Of Show was the last track right?
Logged
Rocker
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 10380


"Too dumb for New York City, too ugly for L.A."


View Profile WWW
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2008, 04:09:41 AM »

I must be in the minority but the L.A. Light version of Love Surrounds Me sounds more finished to me.

I'm with you on that one, but I like this version very much too. The only track I don't care that much for is "Album tag", although the part where Dennis sings is great.

I absolutely love "Tug of love". I can understand that it wasn't used on the album, but it would've made a great single or B-side. When I hear the opening chords I feel like I'm in California, or as I never been to Cal., like what I imagine it to be. It would've been a great Beach Boys record too. It's just magical.
I wished that even when Bambu wasn't finished, some singles would've been released.
Logged

a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was one… their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.

- Lester Bangs on The Beach Boys


PRO SHOT BEACH BOYS CONCERTS - LIST


To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

- Jack Rieley
phirnis
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2594



View Profile
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2008, 04:50:54 AM »

Though it might seem rather unimportant to some as there's no vocals on this track, one of my favorites among the bonus tracks clearly is Mexico. Just a nice melody and a stunning melancholic feel. Also, it has a certain cinematic quality to it, just like Cuddle Up.

Another favorite has to be Tug of Love. The lyrics seem a bit unfinished to me, but in every other aspect it strikes me as one of the finest songs in the DW catalogue. Brian and Dennis sure could have recorded a whole album of gospel-inspired rock music all on their own.

I have to admit I like the Holland version of Only With You a whole los better than DW's re-recording. It may be a matter of simply being more familiar with the old version, yet to my ears Carl's soft voice suits the words and the melody just so much better. Could do without the "baby, baby, baby" chants, too.
Logged
MBE
Guest
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2008, 05:40:26 AM »

I will have to give Tug Of Love another listen. I don't dislike it, but I don't think it would have fit on P.O.B. that well for some reason. Only With You is good, but I would really love to hear Dennis sing it in 1972 when his voice was smoother. Maybe there is a demo around???
Logged
Wirestone
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5990



View Profile
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2008, 07:27:47 AM »

MBE, I don't think you're in the minority at all in thinking that the LA "Love Surrounds Me" sounds more finished. It does.
Logged
Jon Stebbins
Honored Guest
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2635


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2008, 08:32:38 AM »

This is a thread for discussion about JUST the bonus tracks on the POB reissue. IMO the liners, as great as they are, were rather light on details about the bonus material.

Jon (Stebbins that is), you mentioned earlier that in the tape research for the POB reissue that many piano "demos" or run-throughs of many tracks were found. Was the Piano Variations track on the reissue one such demo or run-through, or was this an attempt at an actual song?

And what else is known about Album Tag? Brad Elliott listed a cryptic date (5/12/77 I believe) of recording but nothing else is known about it. It sounds like a voice/piano track that Dennis later stuck between two heavy synth/percussion segments. The "lyrics" sound like Dennis just improvising with words as he noodles on the piano. Is there any more info on this one?
Piano Variations is an early building block for an unfinished song called Taking Off.

Album Tag...the date on the tape box is 3/22/77. The center vocal section is from a piano demo...and it has to be one of the saddest moments in DW history that made it to tape. When he sings "Hard Times are in the past, Good times are here"...man...to me he sounds so damn beaten down. I think Album Tag is brilliant, it has 7/4 timing...what other BB's song has that? None. It takes on a manic kind of Smile vibe...really dark...really unique.

I'm surprised no one mentions Cocktails...to me that's one of DW's best songs ever. Tug of Love is incredible too, its as good as anything on POB...that LP should have had 13 tracks...no way it should have been cut. I did find an early 4/77 track list for POB(In Hanlon's orig. paperwork from the POB period) that included Tug of Love with Farewell my Friend as the LP's last track...End of the Show was not on it. There was a final session for End of the Show later that month. It must haver gone well enough to knock Tug of Love off. I think the POB sequence was pretty set for many months,  other than those three songs...there seemed to be some indecision right to the final moments, as to how to fit those three into two slots.
Logged
king of anglia
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 248



View Profile
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2008, 09:25:01 AM »

Agreed, "Cocktails" is stunning. Almost the definitive late 70s era Dennis Wilson song.

Does the booklet say which songs were remixed? I don't have it to hand.
Obviously all the POB tracks are original mixes, but what about Tug Of Love, Only With You, Holy Man and Mexico?
I assume the whole of Bambu is a modern mix. Were there any full original mixes available for the unreleased tracks?

How is "Piano Variations..." meant to be Thoughts Of You? No similiarities at all. Is it a mistake?

Also noticed:
Love Remember Me - Similar to "Time" in some parts.
Holy Man - Similar to the end part of "I've Got A Friend".
Tug Of Love - Similar to the main chords of "I've Got A Friend".

Any idea when we get to hear that Queen version of Holy Man? That song needs backing vocals.
Logged
Jon Stebbins
Honored Guest
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2635


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2008, 10:17:57 AM »

Agreed, "Cocktails" is stunning. Almost the definitive late 70s era Dennis Wilson song.

Does the booklet say which songs were remixed? I don't have it to hand.
Obviously all the POB tracks are original mixes, but what about Tug Of Love, Only With You, Holy Man and Mexico?
I assume the whole of Bambu is a modern mix. Were there any full original mixes available for the unreleased tracks?

How is "Piano Variations..." meant to be Thoughts Of You? No similiarities at all. Is it a mistake?

Also noticed:
Love Remember Me - Similar to "Time" in some parts.
Holy Man - Similar to the end part of "I've Got A Friend".
Tug Of Love - Similar to the main chords of "I've Got A Friend".

Any idea when we get to hear that Queen version of Holy Man? That song needs backing vocals.

Every track on the set (other than POB's orig. 12 songs) is newly mixed.

Don't know about the title for Piano Variations.

I expect we'll hear more about the Queen track soon, there has been a new Hanlon mix submitted recently.
Logged
Rocker
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 10380


"Too dumb for New York City, too ugly for L.A."


View Profile WWW
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2008, 11:40:10 AM »

Agreed, "Cocktails" is stunning. Almost the definitive late 70s era Dennis Wilson song.



Agree !


Quote
Holy Man - Similar to the end part of "I've Got A Friend".

"Holy man" also uses a part of the melodie of "Moonshine"
Logged

a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was one… their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.

- Lester Bangs on The Beach Boys


PRO SHOT BEACH BOYS CONCERTS - LIST


To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

- Jack Rieley
phirnis
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2594



View Profile
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2008, 11:57:31 AM »

By the way, I never thought that Taylor Hawkins singing Holy Man would work out that well. He does not have a voice as charismatic as Dennis', but he does a fine and obviously "faithful" job (in that he's able to catch the spirit of a Dennis tune). It's nowhere near Joe Stamos doing Forever or something like that. Quite a nice surprise to me, as I first thought the very idea of a Foo Fighter doing a DW vocal to be quite embarrassing.
Logged
Bicyclerider
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2130


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2008, 01:01:30 PM »

I rearranged the second side of POB to include Tug of war like this:  You and I/Pacific Ocean Blues/Tug of Love/Time/Farewell My Friend/Rainbows/End of Show.  Fits nicely and I always thought the single should open the second side rather than Time.

Love Remember Me is stunning, but Are You Real is another favorite of mine out of the Bambu cuts.  Would make a great dramatic closer to the first side.

What singles would you think Dennis might have released from the Bambu album?  I was thinking Constant Companion or Baby Blue, assuming he'd kept Blue for himself.
Logged
Leo K
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 73


I Have Lost Touch With The World


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2008, 01:03:38 PM »

By the way, I never thought that Taylor Hawkins singing Holy Man would work out that well. He does not have a voice as charismatic as Dennis', but he does a fine and obviously "faithful" job (in that he's able to catch the spirit of a Dennis tune). It's nowhere near Joe Stamos doing Forever or something like that. Quite a nice surprise to me, as I first thought the very idea of a Foo Fighter doing a DW vocal to be quite embarrassing.

The Hawkins version of Holy Man is indeed a pleasant surprise...I love it the more I listen to it...so beautiful.

The Bambu material is so grand...haven't never heard the boots of these tunes, my first listens to the Bambu songs were revelatory.

This re-release is very special...I sincerely thank everyone involved to get this set out.

Logged
Sheriff John Stone
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5309



View Profile
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2008, 03:22:42 PM »

I never thought one of Dennis's songs could get to me like "Moonshine" and "Thoughts Of You". And along comes "Love Remember Me". There's something special about that song; I hear a little bit of Donovan's "Atlantis" in there. "Way down below the ocean...."

Yes, JUST ADD "Tug Of Love" to Pacific Ocean Blue. You don't have to bump anything. What was it about those Beach Boys deleting all of those strong tracks? Just add them. I actually like it right after "River Song"....

I like Dennis's "Only With You" and "Love Surrounds Me" - a lot. But I have to give credit where credit is due. The Beach Boys' versions might get my nod - slightly - because of those little arrangements that aren't present in Dennis's takes. So, credit to Carl and Bruce, but, maybe Dennis might've gotten around to tweaking "Love Surrounds Me" if it would've been released solo.
Logged
TdHabib
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1150



View Profile
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2008, 05:33:38 PM »

I never thought one of Dennis's songs could get to me like "Moonshine" and "Thoughts Of You". And along comes "Love Remember Me". There's something special about that song; I hear a little bit of Donovan's "Atlantis" in there. "Way down below the ocean...."
I have to agree with that assesment, when the fade comes on my knees buckle, I have to sit down. So powerful. Gorgeous flute part.
I like Dennis's "Only With You" and "Love Surrounds Me" - a lot. But I have to give credit where credit is due. The Beach Boys' versions might get my nod - slightly - because of those little arrangements that aren't present in Dennis's takes. So, credit to Carl and Bruce, but, maybe Dennis might've gotten around to tweaking "Love Surrounds Me" if it would've been released solo.
I agree with you on "Only With You," but as for "Love Surrounds Me," I much prefer this version for several reasons. While I miss the backing vocals, I think this version is mixed much, much better; Bruce's production on a few LA tracks was very dissapointing to me; also this version brings out Christine McVie's part beautifully, I love her part.

I really dig "Time For Bed" in a trippy way, and "Tug of Love" sounds like it should've been a BB track. I put it after "Thoughts of You" in my mixes.
Logged

I like the Beatles a bit more than the Boys of Beach, I think Brian's band is the tops---really amazing. And finally, I'm liberal. That's it.
Jonathan Blum
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 659


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2008, 10:56:53 PM »

I'm fascinated by the bonus tracks, but something about the sequencing is really horrifying.  It starts with Dennis in fine voice and on top of the world, singing about how damn cool it is to be a rock-and-roll star... then by the third track you can hear him straining... by the start of the fourth he's a slurred wreck.  But the music carries on, and Dennis seems to rally, reminding us of the gifts that are still there... but gradually the voice starts drowning in the instruments again.  And in that context "He's A Bum" doesn't sound like jaunty reassurance that it's really all right, but like a man who just has no damn clue about the cliff he's hurtling off.

And the whole character of what he's singing about changes so sharply as the disc goes on; it's impossible for me to picture the guy walkin' down by the river at the start of disc 1 now saying "The needle's kinda dirty so I thought I'd fix myself another drink"...  his horizons have contracted so much.  The voice even sounds like a completely different person.  In the end all he's left with is the sleaze and the loneliness.

After that last ruined glimpse of his voice buried in the vast stretch of "Album Tag Song", when it comes back for "All Alone" it's almost like he's speaking from beyond the grave already, and the piano variations are his epitaph.

Of course this is an accident of sequencing, and nothing to do with the chronology... but how much thought did they deliberately put into creating this feeling, I wonder?

A hell of an artistic effect, as well as the most effective Just Say No statement I've heard in ages...

Cheers,
Jon Blum
Logged
Jason
Guest
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2008, 12:01:28 AM »

WOW.

What a first post.

I have to admit, this is a RADICAL idea of how the bonus tracks on disc 2 were put together. I shared a similar idea.

Under The Moonlight is the rock 'n roller at the top of his game.
Love Remember Me is the sound of a broken man.
Are You Real is the struggle to realise what is and isn't fantasy.
Cocktails is one man's nightmare.
I Love You is one last gasp of life.
Time For Bed is the beginning of the end.
Album Tag is death.
All Alone is the discovery.
Piano Variations is, like you say, the epitaph.
Logged
MBE
Guest
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2008, 01:26:00 AM »

That was a good post. Of course everyone hears things subjectively to a point but I like the fresh ideas. Dennis was falling apart slowly over the three or so years this collection was recorded. You do hear him losing a little bit of himself along the way. Kalinich has mentioned that he thought the most pure stuff he did with Dennis was in the late sixties. I have to agree that was when Dennis was at the top. P.O.B. and Bambu are amazing at showing how great an artist Dennis remained at least through 1978, but you can hear hints that things are about to collapse.

I have to wonder if say Sound Of Free was a freak hit, would it have turned him around. Perhaps if Sunflower and his Slip On Through single had gone gold? After all the first really self destructive thing that happened to him professionally was in 1971 when he broke his hand. This resulted in him drinking more, and the last six months of the year seem to reflect his first real problems getting along with the others. His threats to leave etc. I think Murry's death made things a lot worse but you gotta wonder what could have helped him early on that would have gotten him to stay fairly together and become the full fledged solo star he could have been. Or at least responsible enough to rebuild the status he had before Manson was arrested. He could have led the group to a new era.
Logged
TonyW
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 601



View Profile
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2008, 02:24:33 PM »

I'm fascinated by the bonus tracks, but something .... ... ... the most effective Just Say No statement I've heard in ages...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Hey Jon Blum!! Great to see you on this board - I'm assuming this is the same Jon Blum who was in Sydney at the Domain & TLOS back in January. Welcome! ... and if it's not the Aussie Jon Blum welcome anyhoooos!

I'm totally sold on the Taylor Hawkins version of Holy Man, I've got it as part of my "42 minute vinyl LP version" of Bambu that I'm listening to in the car and I've reached a point where to me its not "the Taylor Hawkin's version" its just a natural part of Dennis's Bambu.

Love Remembers Me, Time For Bed and Tug Of Love are the stand out new tracks and to finally hear clear versions of Wild Situation and He's A Bum are just a joy.

I'm more than happy to listen to both alternate versions of better known BB songs, Only With You and Love Surrounds Me. I especially like the Christine McVie vocal contribution, her "earthy" vocals suit a Dennis recording.

 
Logged
Jonathan Blum
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 659


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2008, 10:52:45 PM »

Hey Tony!  Good to see you again!

Glad people liked my post, too!  Technically this isn't my first post, as I hung around a bit on the previous incarnation of this board, and also on the Smile Shop, but I was never really a high-volume poster.

The more I listen, the more I'm trying to put these pieces into context...  doesn anyone have a chronology of roughly when these pieces were recorded?  Which ones predate the collapse of the solo tour, or Dennis getting into heroin, and which ones were still being worked on after the loss of Brother Studio?  I've got the general idea from the liner notes (finished pieces like "Wild Situation" and "He's A Bum" were early on, then the Carli Munoz sessions, then the complete disintegration), but I'm not sure how they fit in with the other major events.  And then there's that baffling early-'77 date on the box for "Album Tag Song" that Jon (Stebbins) mentioned, which would make the album in question POB, wouldn't it?

Cheers,
Jon Blum
Logged
dude ll doo
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 61



View Profile
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2008, 07:39:03 AM »

"Constant Companion" is a big fave of mine. Sounds like it would fit on a Steely Dan album.
Dennis sure had a talent for writing deep expressive lyrics using common everyday language.
The words here are so simple, yet they are so so meaningful.

Logged
Roger Ryan
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1528


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2008, 07:42:33 AM »

"Constant Companion" is a big fave of mine. Sounds like it would fit on a Steely Dan album.
Dennis sure had a talent for writing deep expressive lyrics using common everyday language.
The words here are so simple, yet they are so so meaningful.



Actually, I don't believe Dennis wrote any of the lyrics to this one (it's credited to Munoz/Ragland). I tend to think that Dennis relied on his collaborators for most of the lyrics to his songs although there is definitely a uniformity to the perspective of each song he did.
Logged
dude ll doo
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 61



View Profile
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2008, 08:42:53 AM »

oh, ok.
Logged
gfx
Pages: [1] 2 Go Up Print 
gfx
Jump to:  
gfx
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Page created in 0.172 seconds with 22 queries.
Helios Multi design by Bloc
gfx
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!