Question about "Surf's Up" (the song)

[XY]

Interesting enough, Desper also remembered redoing parts with a lot of musicians and mentioned the damaged tapes from the original sessions.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Steve told me back in 1985 that they used the December 1966 recording pretty much as-was: the only additions were a moog bass part and Carl doubling Brian's vocal in a few places where it was iffy.

Jack's a great interview, but his take on a situation might not coincide too much with anyone elses - for example, absolutely everyone I've talked to, from Marilyn on down, remembers Brian being miserable in Holland and prone to staying in his house. Everyone except JFR III, that is.

[Bicyclerider]

"Without even an engineer around, we tried mending and splicing the brittle multitrack recordings."

I doubt very much Carl would do this without an engineer.

"Child was clearly intended to be the climax."

At least intended by Jack Reilly?  I've not heard any evidence, recorded or otherwise, that child was always planned as the tag.  It was a great idea though.


"The Brian solo section is of course constructed around Brian's televised appearance for Leonard Bernstein."

Wrong.  While a complete solo performance was filmed and televised, it was not the version used for the Surf's Up LP.

[Mahalo]

I love this thread. I imagine a second movement for Surf's Up recorded in 1967 would've sounded quite different from the BWPS version, perhaps more psychadelic. In all likelyhood it would've sounded better.

The Surf's Up 71 version doesn't sound good to me, but I like the way it was used in the beginning of American Band.

No big deal.

[Glenn Greenberg]

I'm gratified that a thread I started has lasted this long! 

[MBE]

Marilyn did say the same thing about Brian on the bicycle, but photos from then (the few I have seen) show him to be heavier then ever before. In fact Brian said in a 1976 interview that he had a second major breakdown in Holland. This is consistent with those who told me that he was never quite the same when he got back.

[Boiled Egg]

"We had lots of musicians in to redo parts of the track that had been played badly. "

this is an odd comment, not only because - as has already been pointed out - very little was added to the '66 recording, but because the '66 recording is impeccably played.  arguably the only slightly cronky bit in the recording is the basses/pianos going out of sync at the end of the first movement - which brian can be heard, on a session out-take, saying is the desired effect.

as far as my bat ears can discern, the '66 recording is made up of:

tack piano
piano
upright bass
electric bass
electric guitar
glockenspiel
4 french horns
trumpet
tambourine (8ths)
hi-hat (off-8ths)
jingles or keys or shells or similar (quarters)
brian's lead vocal (doubled)

to which was added in '71:

moog bass
hammond
carl's lead vocal
'bygone, bygone' backing vocals
'domino' harmony vocals
'are you sleeping' harmony vocals
'ooh' group vocals (beginning of second movement)
all those magnificent group vocals (child is father)

none of that requires 'lots of musicians' - in fact, it needs one keyboard player and a selection of beach boys.  still, it was 36 years ago, so i think rieley can be forgiven for getting his facts squiffy.

[James Hughes-Clarke]

Speaking of the (very high) 'domino' harmony vocal, anyone know who sings that..?   (Apologies if this is going over old ground!)

[pixletwin]

The Domino is Carl.

[James Hughes-Clarke]

But there's another very high harmony soaring above Carl's lead vocal.  Are you saying that's Carl doubling up?

[SloopJohnB]

I think I've read somewhere (probably this board) that this high harmony is sung by Carl, but that his vocals on that particular harmony were modified so they could sound that high.

[c-man]

"We had lots of musicians in to redo parts of the track that had been played badly. "

this is an odd comment, not only because - as has already been pointed out - very little was added to the '66 recording, but because the '66 recording is impeccably played.  arguably the only slightly cronky bit in the recording is the basses/pianos going out of sync at the end of the first movement - which brian can be heard, on a session out-take, saying is the desired effect.

as far as my bat ears can discern, the '66 recording is made up of:

tack piano
piano
upright bass
electric bass
electric guitar
glockenspiel
4 french horns
trumpet
tambourine (8ths)
hi-hat (off-8ths)
jingles or keys or shells or similar (quarters)
brian's lead vocal (doubled)

to which was added in '71:

moog bass
hammond
carl's lead vocal
'bygone, bygone' backing vocals
'domino' harmony vocals
'are you sleeping' harmony vocals
'ooh' group vocals (beginning of second movement)
all those magnificent group vocals (child is father)

none of that requires 'lots of musicians' - in fact, it needs one keyboard player and a selection of beach boys.  still, it was 36 years ago, so i think rieley can be forgiven for getting his facts squiffy.

There's also a cello on there, according to the 1966 AFM contract. 
I've wondered if some of the French horns were redone...on the mix of the '66 instrumental track, they sound really discordant in a couple of places (if you've heard it, you know where I mean), but on the finished '71 production, they sound very smooth.  They could just be mixed really low, but to my ears those parts sound re-recorded.  Also, more cellos could have been added and mixed in very subtly. 

[Boiled Egg]

is the cello a double bass logging mistake?  sure as eggs is (are) eggs, there's no cello on surf's up...

[c-man]

is the cello a double bass logging mistake?  sure as eggs is (are) eggs, there's no cello on surf's up...

No, Jimmy Bond (the string/upright/double bass) is listed on the Nov. 4 basic track session, and Joe Saxon (cello) is listed on the Nov. 7 overdub session (along with the trumpet and French horn players). 

[SurfRiderHawaii]

re: as far as my bat ears can discern, the '66 recording is made up of:

tack piano
piano
upright bass
electric bass
electric guitar
glockenspiel
4 french horns
trumpet
tambourine (8ths)
hi-hat (off-8ths)
jingles or keys or shells or similar (quarters)
brian's lead vocal (doubled)

to which was added in '71:

moog bass
hammond
carl's lead vocal
'bygone, bygone' backing vocals
'domino' harmony vocals
'are you sleeping' harmony vocals
'ooh' group vocals (beginning of second movement)
all those magnificent group vocals (child is father)

****

To my ears, the 66 instrumental recording was basically cut for the 1971 version (except for the piano).  To me, the 66 isntrumental portion is the 'First Movement' and when Brian starts to sing is the 'Second'.

By the way, I have a great boot recording of the 66 isntrumental '1st Movement' (with horns) and I think it's one of the most powerful pieces of music I have ever heard!!!!!!!!!!

[Bicyclerider]

Hmm, why would you need a boot recording of Surf's Up 1st movement - the instrumental track with horns is on the fifth disc of the Good Vibrations box set. 

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Oh goodness, I did not know that.  Thanks BR!!!!!!

I have never heard people talk much about the instrumental track and why Brian never went back to it.  Though it has been said that it reminded Brian of the 'Fire' track.  Plus that the  vocal version(s) are so amazing.  I have also wondered why Brian didin't include this instrumental section/1st movement on BWPS.

Anyway, thanks again Bicyclerider!  Now I'm going to edit in the 1st movment into the 1971 release and make my own version.

[Boiled Egg]

is the cello a double bass logging mistake?  sure as eggs is (are) eggs, there's no cello on surf's up...

No, Jimmy Bond (the string/upright/double bass) is listed on the Nov. 4 basic track session, and Joe Saxon (cello) is listed on the Nov. 7 overdub session (along with the trumpet and French horn players). 

this is bizarre.  apart from there being no audible cello on the finished track, it seems mighty odd to bring a cellist to this session, which is all the George Fell Into His French Horn stuff.  there's no sign of a cello on any of the slew of silly tapes from that session.  c-man, if you've got a copy of the AFM sheet for this date, is there any other info on it (like was Saxon dismissed early/stayed late/doubling)?

on the subject of session sheets, an AFM APB: has anyone got the listings for who's playing on the 'sixteen musicians' session from jan 23 1967?  the two sessions from this day are the missing bit of the surf's up puzzle: the first one with the drums, bass, two guitars, trumpet and three (probably) saxes - no sign of any of that in what's out there in bootland - and the 'sixteen musicians (mostly strings)' - also missing from bootland.

[Andrew G. Doe]

On the 11/4 session, Jimmy Bond is almost certainly playing a string bass.

On the 11/7 session, I'm looking... and no listing for Joe Saxon.

[Andrew G. Doe]

on the subject of session sheets, an AFM APB: has anyone got the listings for who's playing on the 'sixteen musicians' session from jan 23 1967?  the two sessions from this day are the missing bit of the surf's up puzzle: the first one with the drums, bass, two guitars, trumpet and three (probably) saxes - no sign of any of that in what's out there in bootland - and the 'sixteen musicians (mostly strings)' - also missing from bootland.

The AFM sheet I've got only lists 10 musicians (well, 8 really) - it's for the 3.00-6.00pm session.

[Boiled Egg]

on the subject of session sheets, an AFM APB: has anyone got the listings for who's playing on the 'sixteen musicians' session from jan 23 1967?  the two sessions from this day are the missing bit of the surf's up puzzle: the first one with the drums, bass, two guitars, trumpet and three (probably) saxes - no sign of any of that in what's out there in bootland - and the 'sixteen musicians (mostly strings)' - also missing from bootland.

The AFM sheet I've got only lists 10 musicians (well, 8 really) - it's for the 3.00-6.00pm session.

thanks, AGD - i've got that one, i think: Hal Blaine, Roy Caton, Bill Green, James Horn, Jay Migliori, Bill Pitman, Lyle Ritz, Carl and the (non-muso) Chuck Britz and Diane Rovell.  it's the later session that i don't have anything for, except the vague 'sixteen musicians' and 'mostly strings' - any info appreciated.

[c-man]

On the 11/4 session, Jimmy Bond is almost certainly playing a string bass.

On the 11/7 session, I'm looking... and no listing for Joe Saxon.

Well, I'll be stripped naked & whipped with a wet noodle...where'd I get THAT from?
Actually, I know...I got it from a file I typed and saved off my copies of the AFM sheets,
rather than from the actual thing itself...who knows why I put Saxon's name there? 
SORRY...   

[c-man]

on the subject of session sheets, an AFM APB: has anyone got the listings for who's playing on the 'sixteen musicians' session from jan 23 1967?  the two sessions from this day are the missing bit of the surf's up puzzle: the first one with the drums, bass, two guitars, trumpet and three (probably) saxes - no sign of any of that in what's out there in bootland - and the 'sixteen musicians (mostly strings)' - also missing from bootland.

The AFM sheet I've got only lists 10 musicians (well, 8 really) - it's for the 3.00-6.00pm session.

thanks, AGD - i've got that one, i think: Hal Blaine, Roy Caton, Bill Green, James Horn, Jay Migliori, Bill Pitman, Lyle Ritz, Carl and the (non-muso) Chuck Britz and Diane Rovell.  it's the later session that i don't have anything for, except the vague 'sixteen musicians' and 'mostly strings' - any info appreciated.

I don't have an AFM sheet for the 6:30-9:30 session (the mysterious "Part One"), but I do have a Capitol Records "Popular Session Work Sheet", and it gives SOME of the names: 

Jesse Ehrlich (cello, arranger)
Ralph Schaeffer (violin, arranger)
Robert Hardaway (oboe, English horn)

These three are listed because they played "doubles", although there is a notation implying that the doubles were "denied".

BTW, I looked this up from my actual copy of the actual sheet, rather than my apparently dubious typed files thereof...   

[Andrew G. Doe]

Interesting - the only other case of doubles being requested and denied that I'm aware of was on the "George Fell..." session, when Brian tried to get the horn players paid for ther 'vocal contribution'.

[Boiled Egg]

at least we'll know this session if it ever surfaces in bootville, then.  oboe/english horn (cor anglais to us brits, inexplicably) isn't an instrument brian made very much use of.  the only notable example that springs to mind is I'm Waiting For The Day, where a cor anglais doubles the vocal line in the verses.