Sail On Sailor box set

[debonbon]

Finally listened to the whole thing today. Only disappointment was the new mix of Here She Comes. The new master on the original albums sound great.

[Cabinessenceking]

What I love about helping compile and create these sets is that we can take this music out of time, separate it from the concept of the album and reposition it into the ERA. "We" don't necessarily need it -- but the new converts need and use it for context. To many, this is how they're being introduced to this music -- Feel Flows did that perfectly. Now, maybe some new/younger fans can't tell the difference these days between what's Sunflower and what's Surf's Up -- but is that the WORST thing? Them hearing it and sharing it and discussing it is the BEST thing.

This is all an outgrowth of the influx of new "blood" from the SMiLE fan base (huge tip of the hat to Darian -- we're really where we're at today because of him and Leaf.) 18 years on, these sets give us a chance to reposition the camera in a way that -- I feel -- illuminates some tracks in a more direct and succinct way. I was insistent early on that the Dennis tracks from CATP should be stripped down to their bare essence, for the basic reason that I'm pretty confident that they'll get TV and film placements with the more natural mix.

That's how this stuff lives on and grows beyond us loving it and passing it along single file to friends and family. I think the fact that this stuff was NOT played in rotation next to "China Grove" and Skynyrd will ultimately be its saving grace. I think this stuff is poised to be devoured NOW.

That said, would've loved to have fit the POOPS version of "Sea Cruise" on to this one. . .

Very well written Howie!

These sets have greatly enlarged Dennis' stature as a musician and an artist. What an incredible output he had from 69 onwards. All these sets from I Can Hear Music, through Feel Flows and now with Sail On Sailor are brimming with his creative talent. Just having the instrumental for Steamboat highlights his highly perceptive instinct for intricate and unconventional melodies. One begins to wonder if the Beach Boys as a musical outlet limited him because it seems less than 1/3 of what he wrote and produced made it to the record buying audiences back then. A great shame in some ways but incredible to have this material presented in such a fine set as Sail On Sailor. Absolutely gobsmacked by this release!!

[MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm]

Steamboat instrumental. Tears. Tears.

Amazing right??

I always felt Steamboat was one of the strongest tracks on the album for its unique misty, moody driving beat. This instrumental just shows the richness in the details that Dennis (and I guess Carl?) put into it. Great, great track!

Steamboat has long been one of my favorites, and I've long wondered what the backstory was to the writing and arranging. To my ears it is poetic, moving and really quite unique in their catalog. Very excited to hear this!

 

[HeyJude]

I really don't understand the point of the 2022 "Saga Trilogy". They could have put on the other Mt Vernon home demo instead. I also think it would be cool to hear some actual alternate takes of songs, instead of just a few sessions highlights.

It has been mentioned in interviews that Al wanted to shorten "Beaks of Eagles." I think most of us both understand how seemingly arbitrary and kind of pointless this seems to be (e.g. if you think the thing is "pretentious" or something along those lines, then cutting out just one of the spoken interludes isn't going to fix *that*), while also understanding that this sounds like a classic Al rando nitpick.

From there, just using some deduction and observational skills knowing how these things work and how these guys work, I'd wager Al wanted to edit the song, and it was (rightly of course) pointed out that the *original* album cannot and should not be edited. Thus, the only way to present his "edit" of the trilogy while keeping the full trilogy otherwise intact and in context, was to do what was done at the end of the set.

I think this is another case of understanding the band's history in general and particularly their attitude towards archival projects, where concessions are made for the greater good. So if Al wants to re-do the bass on "Seasons in the Sun", or edit "Beaks of Eagles", or if Mike wants a new guitar solo on "Goin' to the Beach", these are things that are relatively easily accommodated, and allows the band member to feel better about it, to little or no detriment to the project, and gets the project out the door.

And, while this particular "Eagles" edit is perplexing in classic Al fashion, as a *general rule* I think it's a good thing for the guys to want to be involved and in the loop on this stuff beyond just signing off on it. I mean, while it can obviously quickly go haywire, I feel in principle that it feels good to see the guys taking an interest in this stuff.

I recall a slightly similar situation with the Beatles and "Anthology 2", where they prepped the full, unedited version of "You Know My Name (Look Up the Number)", but George Harrison listened to it and thought it was too self-indulgent, and reportedly/allegedly picked a bit to edit out himself. He ironically edited out a portion that had been in the "original" release of the song, thus fans quickly just edited the two versions together to get the longest possible version. I suspect if/when that song is ever touched on in a future Beatles archival set, we'll probably get the full, unedited thing.

[HeyJude]

I've definitely never been shy about saying that "Make It Good", while truly interesting and impressive in its scope and willingness to diversify their sound, has always been somewhat difficult to easily digest. The stripped back mixes of "Make It Good" and "Cuddle Up" on this set  are revelatory and indispensable. I like "Make It Good" even more now, and certainly many other newer fans/listeners will be able to get at the song easier potentially, and it's also of course always interesting and instructive to hear stripped-back mixes.

Also, regarding a previous comment about wanting alternate takes of songs, I'm not sure how much of that stuff there is once you get into the later era, particularly the 70s. I don't think there's the same kind of full hours of take-after-take of backing tracks like with a lot of the 60s stuff, with an engineer calling out "Take 37!" So unless there's something notable and different about it, I'm not sure if there's much value in putting like a half-finished, aborted backing track take of "Hold on Dear Brother" that sounds just like the finished backing track, only with some stray note and then the whole take stopping. At that point, it makes much more sense, if one is inclined to present a backing track (or backing track with backing vocals) to use a finished take. 

[Rocker]

I'm thorugh with CD 1. Man, what a treat! I can't wait to hear the rest. There's certainly a lot to analyze but one thing that I just wondered while listening to the alternate "Cuddle up": Is that Dennis on the falsetto part (and possibly a couple of other voices)? It doesn't sound like Carl nor Brian. Neither like Al. But it has a certain instability that makes me guess it's Dennis.

[Emdeeh]

Not sure, but Billy may be in the mix.

[HeyJude]

Some of those high parts seem to be Dennis to my ears, yes.

These group vocals man, these guys were *all* even more amazing than we all already knew. Individually and collectively. Dennis was in his prime, Carl was great as always, Brian was sounding strong when he was there, Al was right there with Carl, and every time you hear Mike bring in the bass vocals, it's just beyond description. Individual voices and harmonies are both second to none here.

One can argue with how toe-to-toe you can take all of this era's material to other top contemporaries, but on top of great songs, this band was truly unmatched vocally. Every member should have been singing a full album's worth of stuff in this era. Everybody should have had a solo album on top of multiple Beach Boys albums.

[Jay]

While we're at it, who on earth does the "dom dom kindom" part? It sounds like Billy to me.

[Jay]

I've definitely never been shy about saying that "Make It Good", while truly interesting and impressive in its scope and willingness to diversify their sound, has always been somewhat difficult to easily digest. The stripped back mixes of "Make It Good" and "Cuddle Up" on this set  are revelatory and indispensable. I like "Make It Good" even more now, and certainly many other newer fans/listeners will be able to get at the song easier potentially, and it's also of course always interesting and instructive to hear stripped-back mixes.

Also, regarding a previous comment about wanting alternate takes of songs, I'm not sure how much of that stuff there is once you get into the later era, particularly the 70s. I don't think there's the same kind of full hours of take-after-take of backing tracks like with a lot of the 60s stuff, with an engineer calling out "Take 37!" So unless there's something notable and different about it, I'm not sure if there's much value in putting like a half-finished, aborted backing track take of "Hold on Dear Brother" that sounds just like the finished backing track, only with some stray note and then the whole take stopping. At that point, it makes much more sense, if one is inclined to present a backing track (or backing track with backing vocals) to use a finished take. 

That's pretty much what I was getting at. It just seems like a "just for the hell of it" decision that really doesn't have a point.

I get your point. I just think it would have been cool to hear a "take 1" or "take 2" of something. For example, I've always wondered if Marcella might have started out sounding more like the live arrangement in the early stages.

[James Hughes-Clarke]

While we're at it, who on earth does the "dom dom kindom" part? It sounds like Billy to me.

I always assumed it was Blondie (?)

[Cabinessenceking]

Can we also acknowledge, thanks to the a capella Marcella, that it WAS Brian in the tag singing the high-ish “Marcella heyyyy” and NOT Jack (who did a small “Hey Marcella” in a lower voice while Brian was singing)?

https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=b399XCqDbcY&feature=share

2:39 is Brian, Jack comes in at 2:42

*drops mic*

Brian's part was completely absent from the original mix though, sadly. It is Carl singing "Marcella hey" on an Eb while Jack harmonizes "hey Marcella" beneath - the console strip even marks "Carl and Jack" for that track. Brian's over on the right soon after singing a squeaky little "ooh, I need ya, deh-deh" on G and improvising other lines, and doubling his elfish "deh-deh" on another track later. Exactly the kind of thing he described to Howie where he just plugged in an extra part on his own after the others had been in. We're blessed with a lot of new Brian elf voice moments on this release.

This is one song where I think the new mixes really bring out the 'Beach Boysness' that it was missing - the pinball machine vibes in the chorus, horns, growly edge to the Moog bass, Wurli proto-Bread riff, more audible pounding piano, and having Brian's voice on the end add a ton of life to the track. Hearing all this, it sounds as if Carl consciously wanted to veer away from the eccentric ideas to more conventional rock territory in the mixdown, but the arrangement just wasn't built to support that kind of thing with enough oomf. It's better off being spooky and weird.

I think you highlight one of my main issues with CATP and Holland as albums and that's their "inferior" mixing. This set has proved that there was so much going on - so many ideas and interesting use of instruments and vocals that really would bring the songs more to life than in their released format.

I personally think Carl was being conservative with the mixing and wanted to be conventional because that's the image he wanted to convey of Beach Boys. No longer the teeny 60s band of public perception but a serious rock band making serious music more in line with attitudes of the early 70s. He was desperately trying to elevate them from being "The Beach Boys" TM but maybe he went to far because those quirky, spooky and weird things are what makes the Beach Boys music so unique, timeless and endearing.

[Bill M]

While we're at it, who on earth does the "dom dom kindom" part? It sounds like Billy to me.

I always assumed it was Blondie (?)

Gotta be Billy. No?

[Jay]

While we're at it, who on earth does the "dom dom kindom" part? It sounds like Billy to me.

I always assumed it was Blondie (?)

Gotta be Billy. No?

Pay close attention to the way he sings/pronounces the "dom" in the word kingdom. It doesn't sound like any group members to me, except possibly Dennis.

[WillJC]

While we're at it, who on earth does the "dom dom kindom" part? It sounds like Billy to me.

I always assumed it was Blondie (?)

Gotta be Billy. No?

Pay close attention to the way he sings/pronounces the "dom" in the word kingdom. It doesn't sound like any group members to me, except possibly Dennis.

It very much is Dennis, not Billy.

[Wirestone]

Also, regarding a previous comment about wanting alternate takes of songs, I'm not sure how much of that stuff there is once you get into the later era, particularly the 70s. I don't think there's the same kind of full hours of take-after-take of backing tracks like with a lot of the 60s stuff, with an engineer calling out "Take 37!" So unless there's something notable and different about it, I'm not sure if there's much value in putting like a half-finished, aborted backing track take of "Hold on Dear Brother" that sounds just like the finished backing track, only with some stray note and then the whole take stopping. At that point, it makes much more sense, if one is inclined to present a backing track (or backing track with backing vocals) to use a finished take.  

I suspect, given that by this point they were recording and paying for the sessions themselves, they might not even keep aborted takes. They may well have taped over them.

That being said, it's surprising to me that we haven't had full-length instrumental / vocal mixes of albums other than Pet Sounds. Would love to hear Sunflower that way, for example.

[Jim V.]

The early versions of what would later turn into "Lazy Lizzie" and "Walkin' the Line" and "Chain Reaction of Love", and whatever else I'm forgetting.

Hey, what song are you saying may have sprung "Walkin' the Line"?

[James Hughes-Clarke]

Gimme Some Lovin' / I Need Your Love

...and what a revelation it is!   

[Tony S]

Very much enjoying the Box set. My favorite part is the Carnegie live discs though. They were just such a great live act during this period. If I had to compare the feel flows and sail on Sailor box sets I think of the two I prefer feel flows. Just happens to be that sunflower is my favorite recording of theirs next to pet sounds. But this one is really good too. I'm not sure what they would do for the next box release but I'm thinking it would probably be some sort of a live set. They were such a dynamic touring  group live during this time and even mid to late 70s

[HeyJude]

The early versions of what would later turn into "Lazy Lizzie" and "Walkin' the Line" and "Chain Reaction of Love", and whatever else I'm forgetting.

Hey, what song are you saying may have sprung "Walkin' the Line"?

"I Need Your Love" has several bits that seem pretty similar. As with many things that were later repurposed, it's a fascinating mixture of bits of melody, lyric, chords, and bass line (and not all at the same time) that seem to have been revisited many years later.

[SMiLE Brian]

Listened to the set yesterday, remastering really brought out CATP and Holland in a way the two-fers didn’t.

[guitarfool2002]

Also, regarding a previous comment about wanting alternate takes of songs, I'm not sure how much of that stuff there is once you get into the later era, particularly the 70s. I don't think there's the same kind of full hours of take-after-take of backing tracks like with a lot of the 60s stuff, with an engineer calling out "Take 37!" So unless there's something notable and different about it, I'm not sure if there's much value in putting like a half-finished, aborted backing track take of "Hold on Dear Brother" that sounds just like the finished backing track, only with some stray note and then the whole take stopping. At that point, it makes much more sense, if one is inclined to present a backing track (or backing track with backing vocals) to use a finished take. 

I suspect, given that by this point they were recording and paying for the sessions themselves, they might not even keep aborted takes. They may well have tapef over them.

That being said, it's surprising to me that we haven't had full-length instrumental / vocal mixes of albums other than Pet Sounds. Would love to hear Sunflower that way, for example.

It was a different method of recording overall as the industry transitioned from 2 to 3 to 4 and then up to 8 and 16 track into the 70's, and you don't have those fly-on-the-wall journal reels where you capture the entire band (or most of the musicians) playing in the same room at the same time. The notion of capturing a room sound wasn't as important as capturing each individual instrument in its own space, apart from the backing rhythm tracks (drums, bass, scratch parts, etc.). The tapes just didn't capture the kind of chatter that we love from the 60's unless someone was running a backup reel or a journal reel constantly as was done in the 60's to capture it all.

On point with your comment about paying for tape, there's a moment on the live portion of the set where Mike mentions they're recording the Carnegie concerts and tells a loud fan in the crowd to be quiet, mentioning the cost of tape or something (I'll have to relisten). So that is a valid point too, apart from the change in recording methods. Although they could have run a 1/4" or 1/2" catch-all journal reel on sessions and that wouldn't have cost much.

[hongkongcrowe]

I have been listening to the set on Spotify and have been blown away.  Both CATP and Holland sound great and I love the remixes.  It's a shame that the did not get more airplay back in the day.  But I'm even more impressed with the live stuff - they sound so tight yet loose and their joy for the music and playing really shines through.  I love the intro and arrangement on Do It Again, Wild Honey.  Darlin' sounds great too.  And Jumpin' Jack Flash?  WOW!  This set also leads me to ask why was We Got Love left off Holland?  That could have been a staple on FM radio.  However, if I can nitpick, to me the only thing missing from this set is a raucous live version of Sail On Sailor with Blondie singing the lead.  Perhaps that can be made available as a digital download?  With that in mind, I hope the next release is an expanded IN CONCERT.

[Gosh Darn Highway]

I've really enjoyed this set. I am hoping that there will be a digital part 2 before the end of the year as I am sure that there is other stuff (namely the DW stuff from the Bandcamp "release" last year) that should come out from this era.

I was really bummed, as I imagine a lot of others were, about how quickly (and unannounced) that Bandcamp release came and went. I didn't even suspect the Beach Boys as having a Bandcamp account, nor does it look like they have anything available to view/purchase on Bandcamp now (so how did anyone even know to look there last year?)...so, what outlets are folks checking for any possible quickie releases? I'd hate to miss out again if there are known places one should be keeping an eye on. Thanks for any input!

[Gosh Darn Highway]

A couple notes about the booklet:

Just received my LP set and finished reading the booklet. I really enjoyed it, aside from a few typos it's nicely done. As an editing nerd I'm always amazed at how many little errors make it into things. VERY minor complaint and thrilled to have the set!

However, has anyone else noticed missing text on page 6 (the top of page 6 in my booklet starts mid-sentence, and is not a continuation of the text from page 5)? I have no idea how much content is missing here, whether it's a couple words or if there's something more notable.

Second, at the end (the credits page), under the Carnegie Hall credits, I'm confused about how it lists the "supporting musicians 1972", then the vocalists (including Bruce Johnston), and then the "supporting musicians on live recording"--is this suggesting there were, as often is the case, musicians used for non-live (i.e. studio sweetening?) recordings for the Carnegie material, or is this just strangely worded?  It's all under the Carnegie Hall credits, so it doesn't seem to be referencing musicians who were involved at various points throughout the year, but rather suggests that all were involved in the CH shows. Anyone care to clarify?