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Author Topic: Sounds of Summer 6LP Announced  (Read 19130 times)
rab2591
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« Reply #75 on: June 14, 2022, 01:25:06 PM »

Yeah, it's a bad scene over there.

I can't take it personally. There's so much anger, frustration and DEEP PAIN at that space.
And there's also ZERO concept of how anything goes down -- they're under the impression I'm berating Linett to make mixes "modern for the kids!!!!"
(For those in the know -- imagine how ABSURD that would look like. . . )

It's a handful of remixes on a mondo comp and it turns into  days of character assassination.
DAYSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.
Some man with a fake name there actually told me to "run away from my problems like I always do!"

Okay?

It's not cool. It's not healthy. And it's definitely not for me.


Can't wait to see the line-by-line breakdown thread of this post on Ended Harmony LOL

....

Oh Jeesh just checked and there's been a thread made about this post there. Seemingly some regret that yeah, some people on the EH forum are negative as hell...we couldn't decipher that from the bullshit rumors about Melinda? Or the trash talk there about the members here on SS? Or the doxing of a moderator here on SS? No, apparently this is the first ever time that negativity has crept onto the EH forum....yeah Roll Eyes
_____

Honestly Howie, it was a great interview and I'm glad you did it. Thank goodness most average fans have no clue about these message boards, and just want to hear some good music. The set looks gorgeous, the 3 tracks sound amazing and I'd bet most fans would agree. Looking forward to where the next decade takes us in the fandom!

To try to steer this in a better direction, I have to admit I had kind of lost track of how soon this thing is due to be released. Lest some pedants forget, it's filled with life-changing, life-affirming music.

Just what, 3 days?? I can't wait. The new stereo version of 'Don't Worry Baby' has me so excited, as well as the rest of the lineup of course.
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« Reply #76 on: June 14, 2022, 01:26:55 PM »

As I suggested over at Endless Harmony, things did spiral into a frenzy over the weekend. However it is a shame that legitimate discussion around the creative direction of recent releases has been undermined as a result of that frenzy.

I like that the new version of Marcella reveals new details/parts that were either absent from or mixed down within the original release. I also like that it rocks a more. But I sympathize and to some extent agree with the view that the high end has been overhyped somewhat.

More generally, we should also be able to discuss the relative merits of say how the Sunshine Tomorrow release "sounds" compared to Feel Flows, especially as critics as well as fanatics have commented on apparently negative aspects of the latter: https://www.pastemagazine.com/music/record-time-new-notable-vinyl-releases-november-20-4/#the-beach-boys-feel-flows-the-sunflower-surf-s-up-sessions-1969-1971-. These discussions are fun when done properly and I would have been very interested to hear what Howie thinks of the credible aspects of what has been argued over the last few days.

It should also be noted that those making a fuss over at Endless Harmony are not all old timer fans. At least one is a young fan who may come off a little brash at times but also offers a fresh and important enthusiasm to proceedings.

I think discussing all of the minutiae is great, and I enjoy it. But audiophiles are often coming from a *completely different place* than even hardcore fans of the band.

There is a point where harping on the mastering of a set like "Feel Flows" much more (if not exclusively) than the content of the set, is a clear case of "Missing the point-itis" that I mentioned in a previous post.

Also, for what it's worth, that Paste Magazine paragraph isn't even a full review. Spending more like like 5% of any writing on the "Feel Flows" sets on the mastering of the original albums on the set is very much "missing the point" in my opinion, especially when there are 20 other masterings of those albums to choose from, from old vinyl to new vinyl to numerous CD pressings, SACDs, and so on.

If someone doesn't get that the point of a set like "Feel Flows" is to showcase the era/material and the wealth of amazing unreleased material, and that putting the original albums on there is like just an extra thing to contextualize it all, then again, that's missing the point, or missing the big picture.

I'm not saying anybody should or shouldn't discuss anything, but I'd suggest the Steve Hoffman forum for those who can't get past just talking about the mastering.

For what it's worth, I know my s**t somewhat well when it comes to the audiophile realm, and there's nothing anywhere near problematic enough on the "Feel Flows" set to make me not spend *all* of my time appreciating the ALBUMS worth of amazing unreleased material on the set.

All of this makes even less sense when it comes to "Sounds of Summer", which is the broadest, widest product that is targeted the *least* towards any fan that is hardcore enough to own multiple copies of most or all of the band's albums.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2022, 01:34:48 PM by HeyJude » Logged

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« Reply #77 on: June 14, 2022, 01:37:24 PM »

The new mixes are awesome, the Howie interview is great and informative, and I'm excited about the future of the brand with folks like Howie, Alan, and Mark working towards a common goal of reenergizing the brand, and having people look at the band in a fresh new way.

And yes it will definitely take marketing towards younger music fans in order for the music of this band to continue thriving and growing; this small amount of disgruntled older fans who somehow feel "left out" really need to get over themselves.

Remixes are awesome because they don't replace the originals at all. It's the closest way we can get to a brand new album by our favorite band to exist... we can't go back in time to get them to create new music in their prime - but we can fortunately re-examine the material in a completely different way *if we choose to listen to the new mixes, which of course is optional*, and I'm all for it.

The way some people are ridiculously reacting, one would think this is a George Lucas type of situation where the original mixes are being made unavailable. Absolutely not the case here.

I've often thought that releasing and selling the original multi tracks as ProTools sessions might be the final frontier for getting blood from a stone with regards to the old songs… I suppose these new remixes are essentially a sample platter of what that could be like, where new life can be brought to old mixes.

It doesn't make them better or worse - it's just a different way to listen to the songs. Everybody has their preferences and everybody can be happy because nothing is being made unavailable.

 Of course some people may not like certain new mixes and that's fine, but people really shouldn't be crapping on the idea of new mixes being released- and most certainly people shouldn't be crapping on the people working on this who are clearly knowledgeable, good folks who dearly value the brand and its reputation. Honestly, only good attention to the unfairly neglected parts of the band can come out of all of this, and the people complaining the loudest come across like Grandpa Simpson yelling at a cloud. Completely preposterous and unneeded negativity.

One more thing I should add, I can understand why some people have an attachment to the early material and they feel like that area of the band is going to get the short shrift, but that era has been soooo endlessly played up and focused for so many decades that it is fine for there to be a new focus now. It's absolutely necessary.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2022, 01:48:00 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #78 on: June 14, 2022, 01:49:02 PM »

The problem with some segments of fandom only starts with the pedantry. It’s a symptom of a larger problem, of not being able to see the big picture and contextualize everything.

I don’t want to belabor any of this, but even the person who weirdly nearly transcribed the friggin’ podcast interview, they listened to it (presumably *more* than once), and *still* didn’t actually absorb it or understand it. And it’s not difficult to understand. There are many examples, but I’ll pick one out. The poster over there said Howie’s interview indicates he things AM and FM matter for the Beach Boys in 2022. That’s ENTIRELY missing the point. It’s the opposite! They’re not a presence on radio much, and haven’t been for quite some time. The point isn’t that remixing “Baby Blue” is going to get them on the radio in 2022. The point is that the BBs not existing in the “classic rock” realm alongside other peers is a *symptom* of a long string of unfortunate things that injured their cred/image/legacy over the years. The point is now to right those wrongs the best they can be. Not by trying to get radio to play “Marcella” or “Baby Blue” now, but rather to talk the band up in media and venues that will give them some of that cred, and will make both their music and the ability to discover and enjoy their music something that is relatable and tangible and plausible for a 20-year-old in 2022. There are a myriad of ways to go about this, and more is being done now in this realm by the current team than has ever been done in the past.

It wasn’t that long ago that we had to be excited about stuff like that meager “Songs from Here and Back” CD at Hallmark. Oooh, “PT Cruiser” again, but this time I can buy it at Hallmark? Be still my heart….
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« Reply #79 on: June 14, 2022, 01:53:02 PM »

Remixes are awesome because they don't replace the originals at all. It's the closest way we can get to a brand new album by our favorite band to exist.

Perfectly put! Honestly I love the original mono of Pet Sounds, but I also love the sonic cornucopia that is the stereo version. They are two totally different albums to my ears, but they're both amazing in their own ways.

That's how I see any of the modern stereo mixes, the experimentation on a song like Marcella or Sail Plane Song...I'm glad they exist because it's a whole new way of listening to a song. You're right, it's like hearing a brand new album. And we're very lucky to even have such diverse ways of listening to this music.
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« Reply #80 on: June 14, 2022, 01:57:22 PM »

The problem with some segments of fandom only starts with the pedantry. It’s a symptom of a larger problem, of not being able to see the big picture and contextualize everything.

I mean I wouldn't expect a whole lot of logical critical deduction from a crowd that thinks 'Marcella' is mixed like a death metal song...I'm sure that Linett was calling up the members of Slayer asking advice on mixing techniques.
____

Also want to add, without creating yet another post in this thread, that I hope all that petulant negativity doesn't affect the mixes on the CatP/Holland set. If there were plans on having the CatP's mixes sound like this 2021 Marcella mix, I hope they keep it that way. If I want to hear the original I can do that with the 3-4 other copies of the album I own. But I'd love to hear the album in this whole new mixing style - there is something about it that keeps me coming back for more.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2022, 02:10:28 PM by rab2591 » Logged

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« Reply #81 on: June 14, 2022, 02:06:23 PM »

Yeah, I mean, of course it doesn't sound like "death metal" just because you can actually hear the friggin' snare drum. The drastic remix is literally explained in this interview. It's not difficult to understand. Maybe it's the same fans that didn't like Blondie's take on "Wild Honey" at Brian's shows, and talked about it as if Megadeath had jumped on stage because Blondie like actually played some electric guitar solos.

I just don't get it. Do some of these fans think their old copies of "So Tough" are going to be recalled or confiscated?

I've been saying for eons that I was never super into the old mix of "Marcella"; it's pretty limp. Even when the band had drums and guitars, they sometimes seemed determined to make sure we could barely hear them. I know many fans who have always gone with the "In Concert" version because of this.  
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« Reply #82 on: June 14, 2022, 02:35:25 PM »

Funny I've always thought the original mix of CatP (including Marcella) was absolutely magical. But at the same time I am loving the new mix more with each listen...may surpass the original for me at some point.
_______

Aaaaand they have literally locked the Sounds of Summer thread on EH because apparently Howie didn't react to their firing squad in a proper manner LOL

Such petulance/negativity is a huge reason why I will never join that forum. The place is run by people who close threads when a respected insider WHO HELPS PUT THESE SETS TOGETHER reacts logically to a public lambasting of an open/honest interview. What most of us here have been saying about that place for years is on full display for everyone to witness now.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2022, 02:36:12 PM by rab2591 » Logged

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Ever want to hear some Beach Boys songs mashed up together like The Beatles' 'LOVE' album? Check out my mix!
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« Reply #83 on: June 14, 2022, 02:48:54 PM »

As the board’s resident Metallica fan, the idea of this being compared to metal is freaking hilarious to me.

Yeah, I made the mistake of reading that thread over there. Two things… 1) The gene pool could use a bit more chlorine, and 2) typical boomer sh*t.

I got one thing to say to those “fans” bitching about how things have been since the sale (yeah I saw that too). I subscribe to ChartMetric (Artist tier)… the Beach Boys’ popularity on Spotify alone has sky rocketed since the sale. Compared to most of their peers, their stock is rising.  Is anyone else my age (almost 44) or older aware that the BB’s popularity has come close to surpassing the Beatles? Anyone else aware that the generations after mine revere them on a way nobody else has since 1966? So many of us are still bitter over sh*t that happened decades ago, and bear the scars of liking the group
when it was uncool to do so, to the point where few notice that hasn’t been an issue since around 2011. TSS did wonders for the group’s rep, as did the C50. That’s when I noticed a lot of early 20s kids getting into them.  Something funny happened, though…. they went from the 67-72 period being their most popular amongst the indie scene, to pretty much all of the 60s material being held in the same regard. The 20 somethings and under folks now don’t look at The Beach Boys as a group full of wasted potential, or as washed up has beens who got bitch slapped by the Beatles. Instead, they’re hailed as the fathers of indie rock and bedroom pop.

Tl;Dr version… the group’s legacy has been handled marvelously since the sale, and at just the right time too.

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« Reply #84 on: June 14, 2022, 02:59:40 PM »

Funny I've always thought the original mix of CatP (including Marcella) was absolutely magical. But at the same time I am loving the new mix more with each listen...may surpass the original for me at some point.
_______

Aaaaand they have literally locked the Sounds of Summer thread on EH because apparently Howie didn't react to their firing squad in a proper manner LOL

Such petulance/negativity is a huge reason why I will never join that forum. The place is run by people who close threads when a respected insider WHO HELPS PUT THESE SETS TOGETHER reacts logically to a public lambasting of an open/honest interview. What most of us here have been saying about that place for years is on full display for everyone to witness now.

You know why? Cause Howie is 10,000x the man Doe wishes he could be, and maybe could’ve been had he not basically sold his soul. He took a gamble and lost. Pardon the pun. Howie is a straight shooter who knows his sh*t. Only a fool would …oh… of course. Says a lot about those clowns, eh?
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How’s that view from the nosebleed seats?
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« Reply #85 on: June 14, 2022, 03:09:44 PM »

The problem with some segments of fandom only starts with the pedantry. It’s a symptom of a larger problem, of not being able to see the big picture and contextualize everything.

I don’t want to belabor any of this, but even the person who weirdly nearly transcribed the friggin’ podcast interview, they listened to it (presumably *more* than once), and *still* didn’t actually absorb it or understand it. And it’s not difficult to understand. There are many examples, but I’ll pick one out. The poster over there said Howie’s interview indicates he things AM and FM matter for the Beach Boys in 2022. That’s ENTIRELY missing the point. It’s the opposite! They’re not a presence on radio much, and haven’t been for quite some time. The point isn’t that remixing “Baby Blue” is going to get them on the radio in 2022. The point is that the BBs not existing in the “classic rock” realm alongside other peers is a *symptom* of a long string of unfortunate things that injured their cred/image/legacy over the years. The point is now to right those wrongs the best they can be. Not by trying to get radio to play “Marcella” or “Baby Blue” now, but rather to talk the band up in media and venues that will give them some of that cred, and will make both their music and the ability to discover and enjoy their music something that is relatable and tangible and plausible for a 20-year-old in 2022. There are a myriad of ways to go about this, and more is being done now in this realm by the current team than has ever been done in the past.

It wasn’t that long ago that we had to be excited about stuff like that meager “Songs from Here and Back” CD at Hallmark. Oooh, “PT Cruiser” again, but this time I can buy it at Hallmark? Be still my heart….


Exactly!

One thing though… “radio” doesn’t matter. It’s all about the streaming services. Stuff like this is perfect… the original is just a click away. Let’s be real…Spotify is music on demand, and a band with such a huge output of released and previously unreleased stuff would thrive in this day and age…and has. The elimination of storage limitations plus cost efficiency means eventually whether or not it would sell enough to offset cost would be a thing of the past:

One day I imagine liner notes being able to be viewed as the music plays, where you just maneuver around like a Kindle and flip through. That would be amazing.
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“My cape is at the dry cleaners,” he explained.

I’m writing a book of online BB fandom. It’s called “Never Trust Anyone Who Spends More Time Reading Signatures Than Bathing”.  It’s sure to sell a million copies in January!

How’s that view from the nosebleed seats?
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« Reply #86 on: June 14, 2022, 03:11:36 PM »

Marcella is great, Billy C. was right about Brian singing on the song.
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« Reply #87 on: June 14, 2022, 03:58:31 PM »

One day I imagine liner notes being able to be viewed as the music plays, where you just maneuver around like a Kindle and flip through. That would be amazing.

That's why I'd love to see a Beach Boys app with the full catalogue, liner notes, exclusives, etc. because I feel like we would never get this with Spotify...It took them almost a decade to bring back song lyrics and I feel like liner notes are a dying breed in modern popular music anyways.

I sometimes use the app Idagio when I get into a classical music mood, and they are wonderful about including liner notes. But that is a niche app. But similarly, a Beach Boys app could include essays, rare photos, interviews, etc. I dream.
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« Reply #88 on: June 14, 2022, 05:50:51 PM »

Thanks HeyJude. I don't think this particular discussion should be limited to the audiophile domain.

In the case of Marcella, the mastering (well mixing really, though we do not know the stage at which the EQ decisions in question were made) is more than minutiae given the "product" is the new mix.

I take your point about Feel Flows...I'd be happy to say that Feel Flows is great overall, a thrill to finally see, say, Awake finally get a proper release, whilst adding that I'd enjoy it that 5% more if they toned down the shrillness on that particular track a little, then leave it at that and see what other's think...and all the better if we are lucky enough to see Mark or Howie jump in to either explain why they disagree with such assessments, explain their approach, or at least take the feedback onboard for future opinions like this are widespread.

I also think that in making a point of calling out the original mixes and masters, Howie himself does elevate the topic to higher importance than mere minutiae.
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« Reply #89 on: June 14, 2022, 06:46:04 PM »


You totally missed the point of john’s post. He was not talking about gf listening to the set on youtube as you state. He was talking about gf telling one of the main compilers of those sets that he would not buy the set and that he was glad he downloaded it illegally on the internet. Boasting in fact he was glad he did. And telling this to alan. So much so alan replied that post was appalling. Alan also wrote to gf another post about it. You have a mod telling alan he will illegally dl those sets. Putting future releases in jeopardy. And you wonder why alan hasn’t posted here since. If this kinda thing happened in any company in the usa that person would be let go. And yet gf is still a mod. That is the definition of appalling.

Plus gf hasn’t ever said much of anything about those boastful posts.

That was what john was referring to.


In advance of what I'm going to reply to Steve so the truth actually gets told, I'm not doing this to derail or distract from the box set discussions. But when someone posts what are either outright lies or distortions against me, I get a chance to reply. So here it is.

Getting this out of the way first, Steve, I did in fact address this the day it all happened and posted a reply publicly. If anyone reached out to me privately on this issue I also discussed it with them off the board. Maybe you missed this or conveniently ignored it, but here is that exact reply with the date and link. After writing that, I said my peace and apologized. Until you and manning carried over to this forum this week, some two years after it happened and in Manning's case four years after he last posted here, my words have been on this forum for anyone to read.

But I'm proud to say I didn't pay a dime for them and got them for free online. My principle is, if certain names are attached and others left off of any project related to the Beach Boys, I don't give them a dime or a penny of my money. Best money I never spent.

It is becoming so incredibly difficult to get the corporate support that enables these highly specialized niche oriented projects to happen at all. Proudly stating that you won't pay a dime for a project because I acknowledged AGD for historical research in the special thanks isn't just a matter of availing yourself of the YouTube option. It feels more like a sort of boycott.  And this time it hurts a little, because (as you may have noticed), there is no promotion for this year's stack of tracks. We're hoping and praying that people who appreciate the hard work that goes into these projects will support that work by buying copies/downloads and proving to Universal Music that there is a market for this kind of Beach Boys archival collection.

The attention and feedback you all have given over the years has been inspiring. As for the stuff between the message boards and whatever it is we stepped in that made you decide to not actually purchase our latest work.... I don't know what to say to that. I hope you'll change your mind, because we need all the help we can get out here.

I appreciate the hard work, Alan, both you and Mark have been a Godsend to the fans and your persistence in getting this material out and love for the material itself...we're blessed to have you where you are, doing what you do! I'd never, ever suggest anything less.

I understand where it would hurt, but I would ask in return that you also understand how bad things were on a personal level between Doe and people I call my friends (and me, too), to where they were being lied about and trashed by a guy using his status as a "historian" to behave that way. And that hurt them, and me too to see what was going on behind the shroud of "insider" Beach Boys circles. There are lines one simply does not cross on basic human decency levels, and in some of these cases, lines were crossed which to this day there have been no apologies or even admissions that things should not have been said or done.

So I'll say again, I'm not advocating a boycott, I'm not saying don't buy this, but when I saw that credit it did put a dark cloud over it *for me* personally. I would think if the credit was for research, Ian Rusten among a few others would have deserved a credit too considering the sheer volume of research he's added through the years, especially to the site hosted by Doe.

But again, that's just me. If my wording on the "free" point was confusing, as I think it was, I'm sorry for that. If it felt like I was calling for a boycott, I absolutely was not. But just the same, seeing those credits did put a damper on the whole thing for me, and I had to be honest when I said that earlier, but perhaps in not the right choice of words. I want as many people as possible to hear this amazing music, I'd never suggest otherwise. But for me, the credits honestly did have an effect on my view of it and I wish that were not the case - My own hang-up.

Steve wrote: " He was talking about gf telling one of the main compilers of those sets that he would not buy the set and that he was glad he downloaded it illegally on the internet."

Totally false statement, Steve. I never said such a thing. I also never downloaded the set illegally on the internet. Don't charge me with things I didn't do, or tell people I said something I never said. The proof is in my archived posts. Perhaps you should check your facts before making accusations like this.

Steve wrote: "You have a mod telling alan he will illegally dl those sets. Putting future releases in jeopardy. And you wonder why alan hasn’t posted here since."

Bullshit, Steve. Again I never said I would download this set illegally, and I never did. Again as you can see in my posts, the set was posted on the official Beach Boys YouTube channel when it first came out, and I listened there. Not that it's any of your business, but I also paid for the set later through Amazon Music. So again, get your facts straight before lying about me and what I said or did.

The issue of this having anything to do with the Feel Flows box set has already been addressed by multiple people here. It is ridiculous, and as you've already been told by someone who actually knows what's going on, it has nothing to do with the current issues surrounding Feel Flows.

Steve wrote: "If this kinda thing happened in any company in the usa that person would be let go. And yet gf is still a mod. That is the definition of appalling."

Ok Steve, let's run your example another way. Let's say you had someone doing work for any company who had a decade-plus history of spreading lies and gossip about people in that company. Let's say some of those lies and gossip got revealed one day. Let's go even further and say the lies and gossip being spread by that person was about the spouse and family of one of that company's board members, not just a board member but one of the founders of that company.

Steve, how long do you think THAT person would last at the company? Do you think they'd be asked to do any more work for that company? Do you think they'd be invited to the company Christmas party and get thanked in the program?

How long do you think it would take before that person was out on their ass in the street once years of their lies and gossip about a founder and board member's wife came to light?

Well, you'll have to plug in the names in that example. It's funny how "appalling" you claim my comments were yet you seem to have no problem at all sitting silent through years of the other example which actually happened. Hint: The company name was BRI and the band's name was the Beach Boys. Fill in the rest...and next time try not to project dirty laundry that goes beyond anything you've tried to pin on me onto another example.

Appalling is g*ddamned right. Years of mocking and bashing a founding Beach Boys' wife...I guess in the book of Steve, that's not near as appalling as listening to tracks on YouTube. For fucks sake, take a dose of reality and perspective next time.

Steve wrote: "Plus gf hasn’t ever said much of anything about those boastful posts."

See my quote above from 2018.

Steve wrote: "That was what john was referring to."

I guess you're speaking for John Manning since he hasn't bothered to come back to respond or reply to questions asked of him two days ago? Or is this part of the email you sent him? Well, if you email him again, you can pass on the message that a few questions were asked of him, in case he missed them. Or maybe his first and only visit in four years was just to do a drive-by and try to take some shots at me. Anyway, if you are speaking for him now, pass it on to him if you would.


One last thing. Steve, you may have issues with me and that's perfectly fine. You can address them with me any time. But don't post outright lies and other bits of info that are false, especially when the exact words from years past are archived on this board and available for anyone to read. And don't try to place the blame for a box set not coming out on me when it's not only ridiculous, but you don't have a clue on the reasons why. It makes you look foolish (you can pass that on to Manning as well), especially in this case when what you posted doesn't match at all what was said or done. Oh, and this whole thing about bootlegs and illegal downloads and whatnot...I did get the message you sent me last summer offering me some unreleased Beach Boys material. I ignored it and never replied, but I'll make that right and do so now:

No thanks.

 


Forgive me for indulging in a personal issue here, but there are still people lying about what I said and did as outlined above, and just to set the record straight and prove that what is STILL being said is a lie, I'll repost my response from when the issue came up a few years ago and the same lie was told. The exact truth is posted above, in the exact wording and context where it first appeared.

If fans want to associate with people who blatantly lie about others despite the truth being available and on full view for all to see, that's their choice. But for those lying, how about telling the truth for a change even though it goes against your agenda? It's relatively easy to do and better for the soul, if you have one.

I never illegally downloaded the release in question. Period. Judge those who continue to tell this lie accordingly, and consider how many other lies they have told and continue to tell which go far beyond someone like me and into the deeper regions of the Beach Boys' inner workings, including spouses and children. They're disgusting and pathetic. Appalling too. Again, judge accordingly before buying into their nonsense. "It's all about the music." Yeah, right. At least most fans won't have to carry the bad karma of knowing they deliberately tried to screw over and lie about Brian Wilson and his family on their shoulders.

And now they're going after Howie.

Appalling indeed.

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« Reply #90 on: June 14, 2022, 06:52:41 PM »

I haven’t chimed in here at the board, so I’ll briefly place my thoughts on everything: It’s to hear more guitar (and a little organ) on “Marcella.” Also not a fan of Carl’s “ooh-ooh”s.  I do think there are some interesting track listing choices: I think Howie made some good choices, but it would’ve been nice if the “second disc” more closely followed The Warmth of the Sun compilation (especially a lack of California Dreamin’ IIRC in light of its recent use in Stranger Things).

As someone near the age being targeted, I think that is great, and I do think EH is a little harsh, to be kind about it.


As the board’s resident Metallica fan, the idea of this being compared to metal is freaking hilarious to me.

Yeah, I made the mistake of reading that thread over there. Two things… 1) The gene pool could use a bit more chlorine, and 2) typical boomer sh*t.

I got one thing to say to those “fans” bitching about how things have been since the sale (yeah I saw that too). I subscribe to ChartMetric (Artist tier)… the Beach Boys’ popularity on Spotify alone has sky rocketed since the sale. Compared to most of their peers, their stock is rising.  Is anyone else my age (almost 44) or older aware that the BB’s popularity has come close to surpassing the Beatles? Anyone else aware that the generations after mine revere them on a way nobody else has since 1966? So many of us are still bitter over sh*t that happened decades ago, and bear the scars of liking the group
when it was uncool to do so, to the point where few notice that hasn’t been an issue since around 2011. TSS did wonders for the group’s rep, as did the C50. That’s when I noticed a lot of early 20s kids getting into them.  Something funny happened, though…. they went from the 67-72 period being their most popular amongst the indie scene, to pretty much all of the 60s material being held in the same regard. The 20 somethings and under folks now don’t look at The Beach Boys as a group full of wasted potential, or as washed up has beens who got bitch slapped by the Beatles. Instead, they’re hailed as the fathers of indie rock and bedroom pop.

Tl;Dr version… the group’s legacy has been handled marvelously since the sale, and at just the right time too.



Billy C, I have a couple questions regarding this post. Is that really since the sale, or is that just since Feel Flows? I understand they happened at similar times but I don’t know if IAG has really done that much yet for the group, if we’re not counting getting FF released. This might be a stupid complaint from me, but I prefer the 1976 logo to the current one, and that’s really all I can think that Azoff has done. Definitely excited for a good documentary, which I will admit only Azoff can get done.  In addition, (IMO) the band is much better than anything ever classified as indie, indie rock, or bedroom pop, even if they are the forerunners of those genres. And I’m not sure the band has surpassed The Beatles yet - I think the most we can hope for is a tie in the next couple years.
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« Reply #91 on: June 14, 2022, 07:10:43 PM »

I like the new Marcella mix a lot. I A/B'ed it with previous releases, and it felt like hearing the Pet Sounds Sessions stereo mixes again. It's a new take on songs we've heard so often through the years. That's a good thing. I still use the Pet Sounds Sessions stereo mixes as my go-to choices to hear the album for my own enjoyment, they're still that good to my ears. The new Marcella has more punch, more definition, and I like the overall sonic texture and sheen better than the original release and subsequent remasters. It's good to get a new take like this, and in this case, I think it improves on the original and is a tighter blend overall. Good stuff.

Having just started the new season of Stranger Things, I was a little surprised there wasn't more of a push behind "California Dreamin" to tie in with the show. The media was reporting how Kate Bush got a #1 download status from her song's inclusion on the show, the same episode no less, yet the BB's track barely got mentioned. I would have thought there would be a similar spike in sales/streams/interest to be reported among fans of the show seeking out the BB's track too, but I guess that didn't happen, or maybe the promotional push went behind Kate Bush on this one and she got the attention.

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« Reply #92 on: June 14, 2022, 07:16:30 PM »

Listening to side two of today to mellow out from this mess.
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« Reply #93 on: June 14, 2022, 08:06:44 PM »

I joined the other place when this board went offline. Good lord.

Anyway, love the new mixes. Looking forward to hearing the rest. Go Howie.
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« Reply #94 on: June 14, 2022, 08:19:30 PM »

I like the new Marcella mix a lot. I A/B'ed it with previous releases, and it felt like hearing the Pet Sounds Sessions stereo mixes again. It's a new take on songs we've heard so often through the years. That's a good thing. I still use the Pet Sounds Sessions stereo mixes as my go-to choices to hear the album for my own enjoyment, they're still that good to my ears. The new Marcella has more punch, more definition, and I like the overall sonic texture and sheen better than the original release and subsequent remasters. It's good to get a new take like this, and in this case, I think it improves on the original and is a tighter blend overall. Good stuff.

Having just started the new season of Stranger Things, I was a little surprised there wasn't more of a push behind "California Dreamin" to tie in with the show. The media was reporting how Kate Bush got a #1 download status from her song's inclusion on the show, the same episode no less, yet the BB's track barely got mentioned. I would have thought there would be a similar spike in sales/streams/interest to be reported among fans of the show seeking out the BB's track too, but I guess that didn't happen, or maybe the promotional push went behind Kate Bush on this one and she got the attention.



It's too bad there wasn't a push behind it.  I didn't start keeping track right away because I didn't think there would be a noticeable bump, but California Dreamin' has had over 4 million streams on Spotify in the past 10 days.  In another week I'll be running my yearly Spotify data on the Beach Boys and looking at last year's 2.7 million all time streams, the vast majority of its increase has come since the Stranger Things release.  It currently has 8.9 million streams.  As of now it's their second most popular song on Spotify.   

I was also a little disappointed to see the subtitles label it as by the Mamas and Papas, but that could be a legal thing.  Definitely at least a minor missed opportunity to not do more with it.   
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« Reply #95 on: June 14, 2022, 09:04:17 PM »

Here we go again. The stereo mix of Pet Sounds in 1996. The choice of using stereo mixes only with the 1990 CD releases. The duophonic mixes used anytime past 1969. And on and on and on.

I started listening to the Beach Boys fully in 1974 when I was 15. They weren't cool then, but ENDLESS SUMMER started their renewal, followed by SPIRIT OF AMERICA and GOOD VIBRATIONS-BEST OF THE BEACH BOYS a year later. 15 BIG ONES/BRIAN'S BACK pushed through 1976 with a bang. By 1977, all of that momentum had dissipated. MIU, LA and KTSA seemed to only stir the diehards like me. Long Beach July 5th 1981 finished any last hope for cool.

This group has always been out of the loop after about 1968. DO IT AGAIN was the last gasp for the surfer crowd. Since that time, there has been this absolute need for the group to try and be cool. Darian Sahanaja has spoken at length about being bullied for buying this group's records. I know I took a lot of sh*t for liking this group in my teens, but I will say MANY people I knew started having Beach Boy LPs in their collections after my ceaseless pushing. I snuck an advanced copy of IT'S A BEAUTIFUL DAY onto the playlist of the #2 rock station in Houston in 1979 by BS'ing a DJ doing a live remote. The people in the crowd liked the tune but I left the remote before getting caught. Don't tell me I look too young to be a CBS promo guy! I was 20!

So trying to make this group relevant is something each succeeding generation has tried, even the group itself. I will say the the Good Vibrations box was really a game changer in that battle. Other releases have also pushed their relevance back into the public's view. But one thing that some have forgotten is that the songs and performances themselves are what really matter. Yes, you want a legacy, your rightful place in history. But when you remix songs to where they no longer sound like the original releases, then the legacy you are trying to keep alive is a false reflection. Second guessing Brian, Carl or anyone else's notion of what was needed on a certain track at a certain time is not what is needed. It would be the same if you were making a movie of a well known novel but suddenly say THIS WAR NOVEL NEEDED ALIENS INSTEAD PEOPLE FIGHTING IN THE END. LET'S ADD THAT TO THE MOVIE SO IT WILL BE COOL.

My only real problem with the remixes is that THOSE remixes will be the only version of those tunes available. I saw that to a lesser extent when the stereo mix of PET SOUNDS came out in 1997. Hearing the stereo mix of WIBN with Brian's vocal in the bridge was not good. As a fan, it was marvelous. But it was not true to the original version nor to what Brian himself wanted. To hear songs only mixed in mono finally mixed to stereo is truly amazing and Mark needs so many thanks for that. They are eye openers. But to hear stereo mixes REDONE into new stereo mixes kind of misses the mark. And there seems no reason for those. My opinion.

I am in awe (no kidding) of all that Mark and Alan have done with this legacy they have been stewards of. I would NEVER second guess anyone. Way back in the late 1990s, I posted some thoughts on remasters done by Mark. He took issue with what I said, and I posted on my PetSite his remarks (which included my initial rantings) and my apologies for my suppositions. I learned to not make statements about situations without getting the full story. Mark said he had not had others do that for him. I replied they should have.

This whole "make them cool" mindset is not new for the group. As I said, my only issue is that THESE will now be THE versions of tunes available in the future. And they shouldn't be. If they can steer clear of that issue, I am fine. I can see radio (meaning satellite, podcasts etc) getting only these versions in the future. In 1987, George Martin pulled the multi-tracks for The Beatles HELP and RUBBER SOUL. He remixed both LPs for CD release. He was the original producer and the only one of the group that monitored the stereo mixes in 1965. These mixes are now the standard version and the original ones are only available in box sets. George Martin said he wished they would go back to the original mixes, but EMI keeps using the new ones, even when re-releasing the Beatles US box set. I am afraid such things will happen with the Beach Boys catalog.

What this old dude likes as his goto discs depends on where I am playing them. My base for the CAPITOL releases are the flat transferred PAST MASTER series. The WARNER tracks to me sound best now on the TEN YEARS OF HARMONY re-release out of Japan from 2019, again flat transfers, which means you are getting Carl's mastering of these tracks that he knew so well.

Just wanted to give my OLD MAN 2 cents worth on all of these things transpiring. You can read it or pass it by. Now where is my pudding? I need a nap!
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« Reply #96 on: June 15, 2022, 12:02:13 AM »

Here we go again. The stereo mix of Pet Sounds in 1996. The choice of using stereo mixes only with the 1990 CD releases. The duophonic mixes used anytime past 1969. And on and on and on.

I started listening to the Beach Boys fully in 1974 when I was 15. They weren't cool then, but ENDLESS SUMMER started their renewal, followed by SPIRIT OF AMERICA and GOOD VIBRATIONS-BEST OF THE BEACH BOYS a year later. 15 BIG ONES/BRIAN'S BACK pushed through 1976 with a bang. By 1977, all of that momentum had dissipated. MIU, LA and KTSA seemed to only stir the diehards like me. Long Beach July 5th 1981 finished any last hope for cool.

This group has always been out of the loop after about 1968. DO IT AGAIN was the last gasp for the surfer crowd. Since that time, there has been this absolute need for the group to try and be cool. Darian Sahanaja has spoken at length about being bullied for buying this group's records. I know I took a lot of sh*t for liking this group in my teens, but I will say MANY people I knew started having Beach Boy LPs in their collections after my ceaseless pushing. I snuck an advanced copy of IT'S A BEAUTIFUL DAY onto the playlist of the #2 rock station in Houston in 1979 by BS'ing a DJ doing a live remote. The people in the crowd liked the tune but I left the remote before getting caught. Don't tell me I look too young to be a CBS promo guy! I was 20!

So trying to make this group relevant is something each succeeding generation has tried, even the group itself. I will say the the Good Vibrations box was really a game changer in that battle. Other releases have also pushed their relevance back into the public's view. But one thing that some have forgotten is that the songs and performances themselves are what really matter. Yes, you want a legacy, your rightful place in history. But when you remix songs to where they no longer sound like the original releases, then the legacy you are trying to keep alive is a false reflection. Second guessing Brian, Carl or anyone else's notion of what was needed on a certain track at a certain time is not what is needed. It would be the same if you were making a movie of a well known novel but suddenly say THIS WAR NOVEL NEEDED ALIENS INSTEAD PEOPLE FIGHTING IN THE END. LET'S ADD THAT TO THE MOVIE SO IT WILL BE COOL.

My only real problem with the remixes is that THOSE remixes will be the only version of those tunes available. I saw that to a lesser extent when the stereo mix of PET SOUNDS came out in 1997. Hearing the stereo mix of WIBN with Brian's vocal in the bridge was not good. As a fan, it was marvelous. But it was not true to the original version nor to what Brian himself wanted. To hear songs only mixed in mono finally mixed to stereo is truly amazing and Mark needs so many thanks for that. They are eye openers. But to hear stereo mixes REDONE into new stereo mixes kind of misses the mark. And there seems no reason for those. My opinion.

I am in awe (no kidding) of all that Mark and Alan have done with this legacy they have been stewards of. I would NEVER second guess anyone. Way back in the late 1990s, I posted some thoughts on remasters done by Mark. He took issue with what I said, and I posted on my PetSite his remarks (which included my initial rantings) and my apologies for my suppositions. I learned to not make statements about situations without getting the full story. Mark said he had not had others do that for him. I replied they should have.

This whole "make them cool" mindset is not new for the group. As I said, my only issue is that THESE will now be THE versions of tunes available in the future. And they shouldn't be. If they can steer clear of that issue, I am fine. I can see radio (meaning satellite, podcasts etc) getting only these versions in the future. In 1987, George Martin pulled the multi-tracks for The Beatles HELP and RUBBER SOUL. He remixed both LPs for CD release. He was the original producer and the only one of the group that monitored the stereo mixes in 1965. These mixes are now the standard version and the original ones are only available in box sets. George Martin said he wished they would go back to the original mixes, but EMI keeps using the new ones, even when re-releasing the Beatles US box set. I am afraid such things will happen with the Beach Boys catalog.

What this old dude likes as his goto discs depends on where I am playing them. My base for the CAPITOL releases are the flat transferred PAST MASTER series. The WARNER tracks to me sound best now on the TEN YEARS OF HARMONY re-release out of Japan from 2019, again flat transfers, which means you are getting Carl's mastering of these tracks that he knew so well.

Just wanted to give my OLD MAN 2 cents worth on all of these things transpiring. You can read it or pass it by. Now where is my pudding? I need a nap!

I completely understand this side of the argument, however there's little that the creators of these remixes can do to determine if these will become "the" preferred version of the song that is played the most, and whether that version takes a greater hold in the public consciousness more than the original version, or not.

So many of these elements are out of peoples' hands, whether a given version winds up on a playlist on Spotify by some popular influencer and winds up getting traction, etc.… The new 21st century methods by which music is shared and popularized are often dictated by fans and playlists, so it is a situation where things such as determining which version becomes "the" version will really ultimately be out of their hands.

Once again, the original versions are there for people who want to hear them. I really don't think those original albums/mixes are going to fall into some sort of deep obscurity. However, admittedly, the new mixes will probably for the short term gain more traction than the originals, but this attention level ebbs and flows.

But even if a new version winds up eclipsing the originals in the public consciousness, I think it's still absolutely worth it for those new versions to be made and released. It's still cool that the band has great folks working on new ways to revitalize the old catalog, and we should all consider ourselves very lucky that this is happening. And once again, anybody who dislikes a particular version can simply skip it with no harm done.

Ultimately the brand is not going to somehow be diminished/hurt, nor will the brand lose fans over these new mixes. At worst, things would stay stagnant. But in my opinion, in all likelihood the brand will just continue to grow in stature among young people in part helped by the media attention the mixes will probably bring to the brand, and that's a good thing.

« Last Edit: June 15, 2022, 12:15:12 AM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #97 on: June 15, 2022, 12:36:51 AM »

I haven’t chimed in here at the board, so I’ll briefly place my thoughts on everything: It’s to hear more guitar (and a little organ) on “Marcella.” Also not a fan of Carl’s “ooh-ooh”s.  I do think there are some interesting track listing choices: I think Howie made some good choices, but it would’ve been nice if the “second disc” more closely followed The Warmth of the Sun compilation (especially a lack of California Dreamin’ IIRC in light of its recent use in Stranger Things).

As someone near the age being targeted, I think that is great, and I do think EH is a little harsh, to be kind about it.


As the board’s resident Metallica fan, the idea of this being compared to metal is freaking hilarious to me.

Yeah, I made the mistake of reading that thread over there. Two things… 1) The gene pool could use a bit more chlorine, and 2) typical boomer sh*t.

I got one thing to say to those “fans” bitching about how things have been since the sale (yeah I saw that too). I subscribe to ChartMetric (Artist tier)… the Beach Boys’ popularity on Spotify alone has sky rocketed since the sale. Compared to most of their peers, their stock is rising.  Is anyone else my age (almost 44) or older aware that the BB’s popularity has come close to surpassing the Beatles? Anyone else aware that the generations after mine revere them on a way nobody else has since 1966? So many of us are still bitter over sh*t that happened decades ago, and bear the scars of liking the group
when it was uncool to do so, to the point where few notice that hasn’t been an issue since around 2011. TSS did wonders for the group’s rep, as did the C50. That’s when I noticed a lot of early 20s kids getting into them.  Something funny happened, though…. they went from the 67-72 period being their most popular amongst the indie scene, to pretty much all of the 60s material being held in the same regard. The 20 somethings and under folks now don’t look at The Beach Boys as a group full of wasted potential, or as washed up has beens who got bitch slapped by the Beatles. Instead, they’re hailed as the fathers of indie rock and bedroom pop.

Tl;Dr version… the group’s legacy has been handled marvelously since the sale, and at just the right time too.



Billy C, I have a couple questions regarding this post. Is that really since the sale, or is that just since Feel Flows? I understand they happened at similar times but I don’t know if IAG has really done that much yet for the group, if we’re not counting getting FF released. This might be a stupid complaint from me, but I prefer the 1976 logo to the current one, and that’s really all I can think that Azoff has done. Definitely excited for a good documentary, which I will admit only Azoff can get done.  In addition, (IMO) the band is much better than anything ever classified as indie, indie rock, or bedroom pop, even if they are the forerunners of those genres. And I’m not sure the band has surpassed The Beatles yet - I think the most we can hope for is a tie in the next couple years.

Prior to Feel Flows. The way they’re being marketed , and how they are described by the music media, has certainly changed.

This stuff doesn’t happen in a vacuum. I know a lot of people think of Fleetwood Mac’s popularity being mainly due to the Tik Tok thing with Dreams are missing the boat… same with the Kate Bush song being on Stranger Things and is currently #4 on the Hot 100…. these are legacy artists that were already starting to get traction amongst a younger fan base (and in the Mac’s case it’s the Bob Welch period that has gained a lot of traction; conversely the Peter Green era has lost a lot of steam) .
There are songs charting that sound retro; not “manufactured major label artists” but artists from mid sized indies who write and play their own music.

As far as the Beatles goes, I’m mostly  referring to raw numbers, along with how they’re viewed in comparison by the younger set overall, musicians , media and general public alike . Hell look at music discussions on YouTube or browse non beach boys sites that deal with music that aren’t Hoffman (too old of a crowd). My daughter’s 15 next month and she can pretty much spot trends right before they happen. Hindsight and the lack of cultural bias is an amazing eye opener . We are too close to the action. I’ve been on these boards for over 26 years . I was a younger fan of 17 but the world has changed immensely since . Imagine hearing the band now as a new fan and having SO much available legally and easily be able to put things in context with bias.

This really deserves its own thread but for the first time ever things are lining up perfectly for The Beach Boys, and this time it’s past the point of being able to screw things up.
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I’m writing a book of online BB fandom. It’s called “Never Trust Anyone Who Spends More Time Reading Signatures Than Bathing”.  It’s sure to sell a million copies in January!

How’s that view from the nosebleed seats?
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« Reply #98 on: June 15, 2022, 12:50:59 AM »

Here we go again. The stereo mix of Pet Sounds in 1996. The choice of using stereo mixes only with the 1990 CD releases. The duophonic mixes used anytime past 1969. And on and on and on.

I started listening to the Beach Boys fully in 1974 when I was 15. They weren't cool then, but ENDLESS SUMMER started their renewal, followed by SPIRIT OF AMERICA and GOOD VIBRATIONS-BEST OF THE BEACH BOYS a year later. 15 BIG ONES/BRIAN'S BACK pushed through 1976 with a bang. By 1977, all of that momentum had dissipated. MIU, LA and KTSA seemed to only stir the diehards like me. Long Beach July 5th 1981 finished any last hope for cool.

This group has always been out of the loop after about 1968. DO IT AGAIN was the last gasp for the surfer crowd. Since that time, there has been this absolute need for the group to try and be cool. Darian Sahanaja has spoken at length about being bullied for buying this group's records. I know I took a lot of sh*t for liking this group in my teens, but I will say MANY people I knew started having Beach Boy LPs in their collections after my ceaseless pushing. I snuck an advanced copy of IT'S A BEAUTIFUL DAY onto the playlist of the #2 rock station in Houston in 1979 by BS'ing a DJ doing a live remote. The people in the crowd liked the tune but I left the remote before getting caught. Don't tell me I look too young to be a CBS promo guy! I was 20!

So trying to make this group relevant is something each succeeding generation has tried, even the group itself. I will say the the Good Vibrations box was really a game changer in that battle. Other releases have also pushed their relevance back into the public's view. But one thing that some have forgotten is that the songs and performances themselves are what really matter. Yes, you want a legacy, your rightful place in history. But when you remix songs to where they no longer sound like the original releases, then the legacy you are trying to keep alive is a false reflection. Second guessing Brian, Carl or anyone else's notion of what was needed on a certain track at a certain time is not what is needed. It would be the same if you were making a movie of a well known novel but suddenly say THIS WAR NOVEL NEEDED ALIENS INSTEAD PEOPLE FIGHTING IN THE END. LET'S ADD THAT TO THE MOVIE SO IT WILL BE COOL.

My only real problem with the remixes is that THOSE remixes will be the only version of those tunes available. I saw that to a lesser extent when the stereo mix of PET SOUNDS came out in 1997. Hearing the stereo mix of WIBN with Brian's vocal in the bridge was not good. As a fan, it was marvelous. But it was not true to the original version nor to what Brian himself wanted. To hear songs only mixed in mono finally mixed to stereo is truly amazing and Mark needs so many thanks for that. They are eye openers. But to hear stereo mixes REDONE into new stereo mixes kind of misses the mark. And there seems no reason for those. My opinion.

I am in awe (no kidding) of all that Mark and Alan have done with this legacy they have been stewards of. I would NEVER second guess anyone. Way back in the late 1990s, I posted some thoughts on remasters done by Mark. He took issue with what I said, and I posted on my PetSite his remarks (which included my initial rantings) and my apologies for my suppositions. I learned to not make statements about situations without getting the full story. Mark said he had not had others do that for him. I replied they should have.

This whole "make them cool" mindset is not new for the group. As I said, my only issue is that THESE will now be THE versions of tunes available in the future. And they shouldn't be. If they can steer clear of that issue, I am fine. I can see radio (meaning satellite, podcasts etc) getting only these versions in the future. In 1987, George Martin pulled the multi-tracks for The Beatles HELP and RUBBER SOUL. He remixed both LPs for CD release. He was the original producer and the only one of the group that monitored the stereo mixes in 1965. These mixes are now the standard version and the original ones are only available in box sets. George Martin said he wished they would go back to the original mixes, but EMI keeps using the new ones, even when re-releasing the Beatles US box set. I am afraid such things will happen with the Beach Boys catalog.

What this old dude likes as his goto discs depends on where I am playing them. My base for the CAPITOL releases are the flat transferred PAST MASTER series. The WARNER tracks to me sound best now on the TEN YEARS OF HARMONY re-release out of Japan from 2019, again flat transfers, which means you are getting Carl's mastering of these tracks that he knew so well.

Just wanted to give my OLD MAN 2 cents worth on all of these things transpiring. You can read it or pass it by. Now where is my pudding? I need a nap!

I completely understand this side of the argument, however there's little that the creators of these remixes can do to determine if these will become "the" preferred version of the song that is played the most, and whether that version takes a greater hold in the public consciousness more than the original version, or not.

So many of these elements are out of peoples' hands, whether a given version winds up on a playlist on Spotify by some popular influencer and winds up getting traction, etc.… The new 21st century methods by which music is shared and popularized are often dictated by fans and playlists, so it is a situation where things such as determining which version becomes "the" version will really ultimately be out of their hands.

Once again, the original versions are there for people who want to hear them. I really don't think those original albums/mixes are going to fall into some sort of deep obscurity. However, admittedly, the new mixes will probably for the short term gain more traction than the originals, but this attention level ebbs and flows.

But even if a new version winds up eclipsing the originals in the public consciousness, I think it's still absolutely worth it for those new versions to be made and released. It's still cool that the band has great folks working on new ways to revitalize the old catalog, and we should all consider ourselves very lucky that this is happening. And once again, anybody who dislikes a particular version can simply skip it with no harm done.

Ultimately the brand is not going to somehow be diminished/hurt, nor will the brand lose fans over these new mixes. At worst, things would stay stagnant. But in my opinion, in all likelihood the brand will just continue to grow in stature among young people in part helped by the media attention the mixes will probably bring to the brand, and that's a good thing.



The original mixes are still there. The new Marcella mix didn’t get inserted into So Tough. And both the mono mixes and stereo mixes are available, and usually on the same album …but I’m talking Spotify and Apple Music . I don’t have the finances to buy much physical media (I’m on disability and have a ; month old son to boot) but when I do I spend it on independent artists. So if it’s not available on physical media i stand corrected. Streaming wise, all the albums that had stereo remixes are also available in mono, including as 2fers on Spotify. Jaymie (my aforementioned keyboard and bass playing daughter) is a mono purist and says most of her friends are the same.

Oh and cassette tapes are making a comeback. It went from musicians using VST plugins to simulate tape hiss * to “regular “ people recording their music in to tapes to listen to them that way to sound better.


* which I’ve done. Funny I spent 2001-2008 recording to cassette but trying like hell to get the noise out to make it sound clean , and now people use programs to add that sound in.
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« Reply #99 on: June 15, 2022, 01:09:34 AM »

A couple comments:

1) perhaps I’m out of the loop, but is it that impossible to find original vinyl of Beach Boys albums via eBay or record stores? And from what I can tell there are three different versions of every early Beach Boys album on Apple Music: the mono/stereo rereleases, then there is the generic stereo version that was out before the re-releases. I was under the impression that these mono versions aren’t much different from their original mix, they are just remastered (not remixed). So it’s not as if the 1997 stereo mix of Pet Sounds is now the only way to hear Pet Sounds - I am able to listen to 3 different versions via streaming, and I can have all my archived versions in my Apple Music library as well. This seems to be the case for every album they have released (unless I’m missing something). They remixed ‘Don’t Worry Baby’ in 2009 and yet that remix was never a part of an official release of Shut Down Vol II. So I guess I personally don’t see the worry that a remix of Marcella in a sampler compilation somehow eventually erasing any memory of the original mix in an official capacity.

2) I’ve heard this complaint about the bridge in WIBN now a couple times in the last couple days. I was under the impression that in 1997 they had to put Brian in the bridge because they could not transfer the original mono (where Mike is singing?) into stereo - they didn’t have Mike’s vocal on a separate track and thus at the time it could not be mixed in stereo. This problem was rectified later on. It’s the same problem that YSBIM had/has - they only had/have one vocal track separate from the mono mixdown and thus Brian’s double-tracked lead can’t be reproduced in stereo (and they can only use one track for the lead in stereo). It’s not an artistic liberty on the part of the mixers, it’s just the limitations they are dealt with in certain circumstances.

3) comparing a stereo remix to the idea of completely altering the ending of novel/movie by introducing completely new species/characters is a terrible analogy (not trying to offend, but it is rather an offensive analogy to the people working on these mixes). This new mix of Marcella isn’t adding vocals from 2022 or some CGI equivalent to aliens, it is mixing original elements from the original sessions to create an altered listening experience. It’s almost the exact same song, we are just hearing it slightly differently. A better analogy (still not a perfect one) is comparing this to the alternate versions of Blade Runner. I can still watch the original cut of Blade Runner, but I can also watch the Final Cut where they altered colors (for the better, imho), cut some scenes, and took out the narration. It’s a different way to view the film. It doesn’t introduce new characters or vastly alter the plot, but it’s a different way of viewing the film.

I’m a young(ish) fan, but I have always been able to find either original vinyl, have been able to acquire original mono recordings either by back channels, or eBay, etc.. Currently I can listen to official releases via streaming in mono, stereo, remixes, remasters, etc.. There are very smart and dedicated people running the show now, and I highly doubt they will spearhead a campaign to make it so only modern stereo remixes of The Beach Boys catalogue are available for listening.
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