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Author Topic: Dennis Visiting and House Shopping in Hawaii - July 1967  (Read 5689 times)
guitarfool2002
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« on: April 21, 2021, 12:22:54 PM »

While looking up archival articles from this discussion that turned toward the Hawaii shows in August 67: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,27606.0.html  ,
I found some interesting footnotes from that summer related to Dennis visiting Honolulu in July '67 and shopping for a house there! I thought the timeline was interesting based on surrounding articles and announcements first of the concert being a rumor, then a confirmation of the concert and how it would be recorded for a live album. It's also interesting to think how history may have been different if Dennis had bought property in Hawaii that summer, because not only does it suggest he was looking for a getaway out of LA, but also Manson had just been released from prison a few months ago, and if Dennis was spending more time in Hawaii than LA, they may never have crossed paths in '68.

Most of this comes from Dave Donnelly's "The Teen Beat" music column which appeared in the Honolulu Star-Bulletin. In his Wednesday July 26th '67 column, he wrote:
"All six of the Beach Boys (the sixth being Bruce Johnston) sing on the group's barbershop flavored "Heroes And Villains". Rumor has it that the group may appear in Honolulu before the summer is over. They want to record an 'in person' album here, because the crowds are so responsive and groovy." Then, interestingly, he mentions Bobbie Gentry's "Ode To Billie Joe" single, coincidentally she would appear with the Boys for her debut live performance at the concerts which were just a rumor at this point.

Then in Donnelly's Saturday July 29th '67 column in the Star-Bulletin, he writes this, after reporting Carl's acquittal in a US District Court on his draft evasion charges:
"Brother Dennis Wilson sneaked into Honolulu this week, and announced to pals he wants to live here permanently. If The Beach Boys plan to stick together as a performing group, a move seems unlikely, but don't be surprised at an announcement that the group will do a show here in the near future."

A few days later, Wednesday Aug. 2 '67, Donnelly wrote:
"Beach Boy Dennis Wilson is house hunting in Honolulu. He already has a home in Los Angeles, but would like to have a headquarters here as well. We asked him if he'd just fly back to record and he replied, "Maybe we'll build a recording studio here." Could it be that all the Beach Boys will move here? In the meantime Dennis is looking for a house, "preferably an old one."
Again Donnelly mentions Billie Gentry, how her single sold 500,000 copies in two weeks, and how a Mainland (Hawaii) promoter is interested in bringing her here for a show.

The next day, August 3rd, both the Star-Bulletin (as a regular news story) and the Honolulu Advertiser (in Wayne Harada's 'On The Record' music column) announced the Beach Boys "Summer Spectacular" series of concerts with Paul Revere for the 25th and 26th, not mentioning Gentry's addition to the lineup until the next week. Harada's column mentioned that a live album would be recorded at the shows.

I found it interesting that Dennis flew to Hawaii the week before the concerts were announced, and made his own announcement that he was shopping for a home there! I wonder how much more this series of events extends into Beach Boys history at that time beyond Dennis visiting Hawaii low-key, and whether there were talks within the band of actually moving there too in some capacity. Obviously Dennis spoke to Donnelly, otherwise Donnelly would not have been able to print quotes as he did. Donnelly seemed to have the inside track on the upcoming concerts too, prior to the official announcements, did he get that info from Dennis himself on that visit? And who else went with Dennis on this trip? Management, Capitol reps, etc? It just mentions his "pals".

And it's still fascinating to think how history would have been different if Dennis had indeed bought a house there in '67.


« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 12:24:34 PM by guitarfool2002 » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2021, 12:27:02 PM »

Well for one thing, Dennis would have a peaceful life free of troubles. Kinda fits his character actually. This was a good read!
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« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2021, 02:23:55 PM »

An old Denny might still be living in a Honolulu bungalow had history taken a turn there. Imagine Dennis just being a fairly anonymous old fellow who did his share of surfing and is now enjoying quiet Hawaiian life... Sad, but being a Beach Boy is ultimately what killed Dennis. Had he not been a Beach Boy on the other hand the world would not have heard his unique music.
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« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2021, 04:16:01 PM »

Indeed, it seems more likely than not that moving out of L.A. would have been beneficial for Denny.   It's interesting, and also to some extent consistent with larger demographic trends for their generation, that most of the group did eventually move away from greater Los Angeles.   Except for that weird sojourn to St Charles, Illinois (where apparently one winter was enough), Brian has proven to be the inveterate Angeleno. 
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« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2021, 05:50:36 PM »

Oddly, I had a dream about DW the other night. Odd, because I hadn't particularly been thinking of him recently. Anyways, in this dream, it was modern-day times, and Dennis re-emerged from a faked death. He told me he had faked his own death to get away and live in anonymity, away from the spotlight and the entertainment business. He looked older, but good - kind of like his 1966 self, but with grey hair, and small, round tinted eyeglasses. His voice was a "normal" DW voice, not hoarse and raspy. He stood up straight, and seemed really fit for his age, with no noticeable vices. I asked him if he still lived in California, and he said no, he had to get away from there. I had the feeling he was living on an island somewhere in the Pacific...
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« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2021, 06:23:31 PM »

Oddly, I had a dream about DW the other night. Odd, because I hadn't particularly been thinking of him recently. Anyways, in this dream, it was modern-day times, and Dennis re-emerged from a faked death. He told me he had faked his own death to get away and live in anonymity, away from the spotlight and the entertainment business. He looked older, but good - kind of like his 1966 self, but with grey hair, and small, round tinted eyeglasses. His voice was a "normal" DW voice, not hoarse and raspy. He stood up straight, and seemed really fit for his age, with no noticeable vices. I asked him if he still lived in California, and he said no, he had to get away from there. I had the feeling he was living on an island somewhere in the Pacific...

Whoa! Thatís one heck of a dream!
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« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2021, 12:18:18 AM »

Interestingly, I read that Dennis's son, Gage, lives in Hawaii. Perhaps following in his father's almost footsteps.

Indeed, so many alternate possibilities for how things could've gone differently, it is simultaneously fascinating as it is sad.
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« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2021, 09:52:12 AM »

It's not as widely reported that Dennis or any of the band members were considering such a move at this specific time, and for me it added yet another layer of situations that were swirling around the band and affecting their decision-making and essentially changing the course of their future plans at this exact time in history. They had the Smile situation, Carl's legal issues regarding the draft, the lawsuit with Capitol which was still working itself out in various ways, the establishment of a new record label and business, Monterey Pop was on the horizon with Brian on the board of governors, and the touring band had just returned from a European tour where they received some pretty stinging reviews from the critics...yet they were having what was probably their most successful period financially and even critically up to that point. The August 3 newspaper column in the Star-Bulletin announcing the Summer Spectacular concerts noted that the band's recordings alone earned them 2 million dollars in 1966.

So it is surprising but also not surprising at the same time that Dennis would be looking for an escape chute of sorts...they had the money, he had the resources, and Hawaii was becoming known even this early as a paradise for not only surfers and a more laid-back lifestyle, but also as a destination for those seeking spiritual, cosmic, or chemically-aided enlightenment. Consider one of the themes of Smile centered around Hawaii, and Smiley Smile featured a musical and lyrical ode to having a pad in Hawaii! Coincidence? I think not.

And I agree, the Hawaiian lifestyle on the surface did seem like a perfect fit for Dennis.

So one question becomes why did the move not happen? The articles clearly state his intentions at that time, and also address the issues of his work with the band and how the distance was a major issue, yet it also doesn't suggest Dennis was looking to move entirely to Hawaii, but rather have it as his getaway? It's unclear. Obviously nothing ever happened.

But I just file this into the importance of that one specific time in the band's history, roughly May into June 1967 after they returned from Europe and after work on what was previously "Smile" had stopped and the temporary home studio was set up. To me, whatever happened during those few weeks, whatever was said, whatever ultimately got decided (like the move to Brian's living room to record), and whatever was left on the drawing board is absolutely *crucial* to at least the next several decades of the band's history. It seems like the table in front of the band was overflowing with ideas and new business plans, for all members to partake, yet look at how things played out in reality. Nothing seemed to click despite having some pretty solid business plans, and there always seemed to be an air of uncertainty hanging over the group.

When it's learned Dennis was looking to buy a house in Hawaii at this same time, we have to wonder if he was looking for an "out" from Hollywood and all the BS that goes with it, if he was just looking for a "Little Pad" to chill out and escape for weeks at a time, or if there was some notion in the air of the band not sticking around for much longer and Dennis was looking for other options apart from being a Beach Boy...who knows. Even Brian questioned how long they could be "Beach-Boying" into the future in an interview he gave at the Hawaii rehearsals. We can only piece things together from articles and interviews at this point, and the pickings are slim from this time in the band's history.
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« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2021, 04:07:58 PM »

Brian himself said in 1968 that the group had nearly "broke up for good" a year earlier.

Not sure the ultimate source of this quotation but it appears around the internet (e.g., in the Prokopy Smile notes, etc):

Early 1967, I had planned to make an album entitled SMILE.  I was working with a guy named Van Dyke Parks, who was collaborating with me on some of the tunes, and in the process, we came up with a song called "Surf's Up," and I performed that with just a piano on a documentary show made on rock music.  The song "Surf's Up" that I sang on that documentary never came out on an album, and it was supposed to come out on the SMILE album, and that and a couple of other songs were junked... because... I don't know why... for some
 reason didn't want to put them on the album.  And the group nearly broke up, actually broke up for good after that.
  -Brian Wilson, 1968



Based on that quote, I've often wondered whether the Inside Pop "Surf's Up" itself played an outsized role in the intra-band strife during that period... and Smile's collapse.  Remember, David Oppenheim had also filmed the *group* singing in the studio.  How much resentment among the other guys was there that only Brian made the cut for that TV show... singing his artsy-fartsy ballad in a solo piano rendition?    Obviously, Brian had no editorial control over what Oppenheim put in his documentary, so it wasn't his fault per se, but this was a pretty unprecedented turn of events for the group who had always appeared together on Ed Sullivan etc. 

 But think about how bizarre that whole thing was.  You have Brian singing this gorgeous song on national TV (at a time when that meant perhaps 1/3 of the entire country's TV audience was watching)... a song that the show's narrator describes as "beautiful in its obscurity," and then you don't even bother to finish the damned song and rush it into record stores, like, immediately?    Something very weird was happening with the group.  And, next thing you know, it's "Smiley Smile produced by the Beach Boys"

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« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2021, 05:27:56 AM »

...And, next thing you know, it's "Smiley Smile produced by the Beach Boys"

As Dennis explained to Pete Fornatale in 1976, it was Brian who insisted that the production credit on their records be given to the whole group beginning with Smiley. Honestly, I think that was because he no longer wished to bear the "official" responsibility himself, regardless of the fact that he was the one actually producing the records still, at this point. He was withdrawing from the "production race".
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« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2021, 08:38:05 AM »

It's possible the group wasn't even aware of Brian's appearance on the Inside Pop special or cared about it. They may have been touring, I'm sure someone knows. I mean Caroline No was released under Brian's name. I think we care a lot more about this stuff than the BB's did.
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« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2021, 08:52:44 AM »

Brian himself said in 1968 that the group had nearly "broke up for good" a year earlier.

Not sure the ultimate source of this quotation but it appears around the internet (e.g., in the Prokopy Smile notes, etc):

Early 1967, I had planned to make an album entitled SMILE.  I was working with a guy named Van Dyke Parks, who was collaborating with me on some of the tunes, and in the process, we came up with a song called "Surf's Up," and I performed that with just a piano on a documentary show made on rock music.  The song "Surf's Up" that I sang on that documentary never came out on an album, and it was supposed to come out on the SMILE album, and that and a couple of other songs were junked... because... I don't know why... for some
 reason didn't want to put them on the album.  And the group nearly broke up, actually broke up for good after that.
  -Brian Wilson, 1968



Based on that quote, I've often wondered whether the Inside Pop "Surf's Up" itself played an outsized role in the intra-band strife during that period... and Smile's collapse.  Remember, David Oppenheim had also filmed the *group* singing in the studio.  How much resentment among the other guys was there that only Brian made the cut for that TV show... singing his artsy-fartsy ballad in a solo piano rendition?    Obviously, Brian had no editorial control over what Oppenheim put in his documentary, so it wasn't his fault per se, but this was a pretty unprecedented turn of events for the group who had always appeared together on Ed Sullivan etc.  

 But think about how bizarre that whole thing was.  You have Brian singing this gorgeous song on national TV (at a time when that meant perhaps 1/3 of the entire country's TV audience was watching)... a song that the show's narrator describes as "beautiful in its obscurity," and then you don't even bother to finish the damned song and rush it into record stores, like, immediately?    Something very weird was happening with the group.  And, next thing you know, it's "Smiley Smile produced by the Beach Boys"




As Dennis explained to Pete Fornatale in 1976, it was Brian who insisted that the production credit on their records be given to the whole group beginning with Smiley. Honestly, I think that was because he no longer wished to bear the "official" responsibility himself, regardless of the fact that he was the one actually producing the records still, at this point. He was withdrawing from the "production race".



I've said it many times including above, but something big happened to change the dynamic after the band returned from Europe in May 1967. Big as in a game-changer with ripple effects lasting well into the next decade and beyond, or a whole host of issues and gripes reaching a boiling point both from the group as a whole and with individual members. I think there were simultaneous factors coming from band members and Brian that either triggered certain events or led to actions following up on other events. I do think the attention on Brian from appearances like Inside Pop where he played solo with nary a Beach Boy in sight (even though they had been filmed too for the same show) and various articles singling him out caused conflict, or at least some resentment, within the band. This is backed up below...

And I also think Brian at various points during and after this time period had the mindset of saying "screw this", wanted to bail from the stress and bulllshit, and no doubt, he did want to withdraw from the competition of the production race (even though he was still clearly running the show in the studio for Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, and Friends as the tapes show). Also backed up below...

But it does seem possible that at some point, late May/June 1967, everyone reconvened after that  tour and had an airing of grievances in some form, who knows how or what actually happened beyond those who were there. But the dam seems to have burst in some form within the group. Derek Taylor mentioned some of the issues the band addressed among each other in one of his columns from this time. Then one burst of positive energy came July 5th, when Brian and an entourage hopped in their cars to deliver his final Heroes mix to KHJ (and according to the LA Times, other radio stations around LA too), and even that turned into a debacle which deflated Brian.

And a few weeks later in July 1967, we see reports of Dennis looking to buy a house in Hawaii. It just adds more layers and questions to a period of time which seems crucial to the band's future trajectory yet a period which is rarely reported beyond the surface.

Relevant quotes to consider from the Don Was documentary:

Brian:
"I had a great big, a great problem with the Beach Boys. And I wanted to do my kind of music and they wanted to do their kind of music. So it was a tug of war, I felt like I was getting pulled to pieces. Like two...inner turmoil that's struggling, with the see-saw, kind of teeter totter kind of thing, you know? Where I was being pulled all around, you know? And I just about, I fell to pieces."

"When I was younger I was a real competitor, then as I got older I said is it worth the bull, the bullshit, you know, to compete like that? And I said, nah, for awhile there I said I just said hey I'm gonna coast, I'm gonna make real nice music, nothing competitive, right?"

Marilyn:
"He had a real hard time with the guys, after Pet Sounds and after Smile. Because he felt guilty that he got all the attention, and he was the one who was called the genius. And, you know, he knew, he felt that the guys really resented that, and I think they did. I think it was very hard for them to understand why is Brian Wilson singled out. But anybody with a brain would know why."

"Well he would slowly just stay in the bedroom and let the guys record in the studio, since the Beach Boys paid for the studio. And it just became more and more that he would just stay in bed, didn't want to go down, and, you know, 'let them do their thing, let them do their thing'. And it was very tough for him because he thought that they all hated him. I think it was like, 'OK you assholes, you know, you wanna...you think you can do as good as me, or whatever? Like, go ahead. So you can do it, you do it. You think it's so easy? You do it.'"

"And I don't think Brian really ever came back. I don't think he ever had the need, I mean...he was just torn down, he really was. They slowly tore him down. I hate to say it, but they did."
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« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2021, 09:17:24 AM »

It's possible the group wasn't even aware of Brian's appearance on the Inside Pop special or cared about it. They may have been touring, I'm sure someone knows. I mean Caroline No was released under Brian's name. I think we care a lot more about this stuff than the BB's did.

The group was aware of all this, not only were they all filmed for the show by Oppenheim's CBS News crew but even Murry showed up when the CBS crew was filming and they got footage of him in the swimming pool. The show first aired in April '67 and was also rebroadcast that summer. No way the band members would not have known or cared when they were not only filmed (and their appearances left on the cutting room floor) but their brother-cousin-bandmate was going to be featured on network TV.

Re: Caroline No as a BW single. Consider for the discussion how the album released after Pet Sounds, Smiley Smile, similarly featured the song "Gettin Hungry" which was pressed as a single under the name "Brian Wilson and Mike Love", rather than a Beach Boys single. Coincidence? The reasons why that was done are up for discussion, but it doesn't seem to be a random decision.

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« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2021, 10:00:56 AM »

I think it was like, 'OK you assholes, you know, you wanna...you think you can do as good as me, or whatever? Like, go ahead. So you can do it, you do it. You think it's so easy? You do it.'"

^^^ This was the single most significant line in IJWMFTT, in my opinion.  Let's face it, few were or are in a better position than Marilyn to understand the dynamics at play during that period.

In the Jamake Highwater interview in 1968, Brian himself (tragically) says, "I stopped trying to do such great things."

To some extent, all of this is "of a piece."   I would add in Brian's ill-fated attempt to branch out with Redwood, as described by Chuck Negron years later:

"It all came to a head...when Mike Love, Carl Wilson and Al Jardine came to the studio and heard our version of 'Time To Get Alone'...They manoeuvred Brian into the control booth and reduced him to tears. It was a cruel and pathetic scene. Danny, Cory and I were in the studio and could see it all happening through the control-booth window. It was as if Brian had turned into a little boy. The conversation appeared quiet and calm, but we could tell it was emotional and intense. The others were doing most of the talking, like overbearing, controlling parents. Brian would move away, and they would block his escape. We couldn't hear what was being said, but I think a good lip-reader would have picked up something like, 'We don't give a **** about these guys, and we want those songs for us.' We could actually feel Brian crumbling, and when he came out of the booth, a tear dropped down his cheek. His head was lowered and his shoulders sagged. It was the body language of a child who had just been scolded and punished. And this brilliant musical icon - whose songs defined one generation and influenced another - weepingly told us, 'We can't do this. I have to give the songs to them. They're family and I have to take care of my family. They want the songs. I'll give you any amount of money you want to finish an album, but I can't produce it. They won't let me.'"

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« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2021, 11:55:03 AM »


I've said it many times including above, but something big happened to change the dynamic after the band returned from Europe in May 1967.


The currently fashionable term for what occurred in 1967 is "deplatforming." How or why that happened is up for debate (not really) but that's what it was. 
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« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2021, 11:22:28 PM »

The Marilyn quote and the Three Dog Night episode are both pretty telling. It's really no wonder Brian got into a more passive-aggressive mode at the time. The band also gave him a hard time over Old Man River, right? I find it remarkable that he still gave them any good material after all that, so I guess they probably reconciled their differences at least for some short periods of time, like for the Sunflower sessions where he was more involved afaik, although not as their leader (which I feel is apparent in the music, which is nice but doesn't really sound like a Brian production to me). In terms of making (and finishing) music I don't think he ever regained the drive he had in the 60s, except maybe for a brief period during the "Brian's Back" timeframe.
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« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2021, 08:49:59 AM »

"I have to give the songs to them.....They want the songs...., but I can't produce it. They won't let me."

to my mind it's one thing the rest of the group wanted those songs for the Beach Boys, but it's quite another thing they're preventing Brian from producing Redwood songs at all

The group was afraid of competition?  It doesn't exactly make sense since of course Brian had already produced records for other artists--glen campbell,  the Castells, Sharon marie, etc.  They didn't exactly get bent out of shape about those

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« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2021, 08:58:47 AM »

"I have to give the songs to them.....They want the songs...., but I can't produce it. They won't let me."

to my mind it's one thing the rest of the group wanted those songs for the Beach Boys, but it's quite another thing they're preventing Brian from producing Redwood songs at all

The group was afraid of competition?  It doesn't exactly make sense since of course Brian had already produced records for other artists--glen campbell,  the Castells, Sharon marie, etc.  They didn't exactly get bent out of shape about those



That's a fair point, but I would note that there may have been a change in attitude between 1964 and 1967.   Three years after Brian was doing side projects with the likes of Sharon Marie, the other guys had acquired houses and wives and even ex-wives.  There may have been less in the way of "let Brian have his fun" and more in the way of "hey, we all have bills to pay here."
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« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2021, 09:21:42 AM »

"we all have bills to pay here"

the rest of the group will always have their bills to pay, it does not rule out Brian producing records for others.  Honeys record production may be viewed as an ongoing thing.  And later Carl produces 2 albums for The Flame

Danny Hutton once said Mike Love took him aside (since he was Brians close friend) and told him a Redwood 45 was possible, but not Brian producing an entire album for them (Danny apparently turned down the offer of just a 45).  So I wonder what song that 45 would've been--Time To Get Alone?
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« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2021, 02:31:15 PM »

It's also worth noting that there was much more external recognition / reputation around Brian and his ability in 1967 vs 1964. Perhaps some outside production would've been more successful than previously. Counter to that he did a few more Honeys things without any great success.

There is also at least one parallel in the Fred Vail album project a few years later.

Perhaps the biggest point regarding production was that to Brian at that time, production and songwriting were one and the same, for the most part at least. I would say that at least 90% of what Brian produced, he wrote. That percentage is considerably higher if you add in valuable reinterpretation.

The other thing is, the Beach Boys sans Brian . . had no material at that time. None. Hence Al's "attempt" at Good News during the Smiley Smile sessions.
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« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2021, 06:49:53 AM »

"I have to give the songs to them.....They want the songs...., but I can't produce it. They won't let me."

to my mind it's one thing the rest of the group wanted those songs for the Beach Boys, but it's quite another thing they're preventing Brian from producing Redwood songs at all

The group was afraid of competition?  It doesn't exactly make sense since of course Brian had already produced records for other artists--glen campbell,  the Castells, Sharon marie, etc.  They didn't exactly get bent out of shape about those



Redwood weren't really hit songwriters (proven by the fact that Three Dog Night always recorded outside material for their singles). Hence, Brian's involvement with them would've been supplying material AND producing it. In '63-'64, Brian was writing and producing plenty of hits for The Beach Boys, so they weren't as concerned with his outside endeavors (which, aside from his cowrites with Jan Berry for J&D, weren't resulting in hits). By late '67 though, the career of The Beach Boys was on the line - H&V was a relative failure compared to GV, and the Smiley Smile album was turning out to be a huge letdown, in terms of commercial and artistic appeal. I'm sure the band was desperate to hold onto any BW material that might possibly give them any chance of having a hit. To their minds, that HAD to be Brian's sole priority now.
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« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2021, 06:58:46 AM »

posts coming to the defense of Mike Love putting the ki-bosh on Brians' Redwood project back then

astonishing!
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« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2021, 07:28:40 AM »

Time to get alone (in the control booth) with Mike Love. Evil
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And production aside, Iíd so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
jiggy22
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« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2021, 10:05:19 AM »

If Brian gave Time to Get Alone and Darlin' away to Redwood, nobody would know those songs today.
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Do happy happy happy Mission Pak singing sound!

My blog, where I post my original Beach Boys mixes and whatnot:
http://www.jiggy22.blogspot.com
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« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2021, 10:14:53 AM »

I can't imagine anyone is being totally honest with themselves when acting as though they'd prefer Danny Hutton singing Time to Get Alone and Darlin' to Carl and Brian, as much as the circumstances surrounding the switch were ugly. In the long run, Brian loved those songs with the Beach Boys' voices, and he worked enthusiastically on them to completion in both cases (emphasis on both, despite the 20/20 inner gatefold).
« Last Edit: May 03, 2021, 10:21:21 AM by SaltyMarshmallow » Logged
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