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CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #50 on: February 18, 2021, 01:20:10 PM »

The question then becomes why change the booking name at all, and further why do it amidst all these other issues happening in 2020 including this blockbuster deal with Azoff? It doesn't randomly change on a whim, as Mike has fought and filed many legal papers since 1998 to keep that name to book his shows. Now it changes? It can't be ignored or brushed aside, because it's a change in the entire protocol that has been fought over for 20+ years.

Truly fascinating what must have been going on behind the scenes regarding the name and billing. Talk about a can of worms.
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« Reply #51 on: February 18, 2021, 01:25:19 PM »

I think that ever since the kerfuffles post-C50 in 2012 over billing of shows, we have sporadically seen venues/promoters going the extra step of mentioning in materials that the tour is Mike and Bruce. This was almost *never* mentioned prior, to my memory anyway.

As far as I know, Mike still has a license to tour as "The Beach Boys." I'd wager, even with a huge payout, it would be *very* difficult to convince Mike to cut a deal like this Iconic deal if it meant losing the ability to tour with the name. It's enough of a mind-blowing concession that he (and all of them) are ceding control to Iconic who could, theoretically, unilaterally change how the trademark (which they own a majority of) is handled. I'm not saying anything was locked in contractually for use of the name, and even if it was, Iconic would probably have some sort of out considering they paid a gazillion dollars for a trademark and would want to be able to assert control over it.

As far as I'm aware, if verbiage indicating "Mike Love and Bruce Johnston" is being added to some billings by venues or promoters, this is not an actual change to the ability to tour under specifically the name "The Beach Boys."

There may have been a time 15 or 20 years ago when changing the name to "Mike Love's Beach Boys" or something of that nature would have worked on some level. But at this stage in 2021, I can't see what the point would be in diluting the selling power of the *only* band touring using the name and generating money for the corporation. The only thing enforcing an actual name change would do would be to reduce income for everybody to some degree.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2021, 01:27:53 PM by HeyJude » Logged

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« Reply #52 on: February 18, 2021, 01:26:31 PM »

I’m also going to be negative here, sorry everyone. I don’t know as much as a lot of members here do, but what I do know is that Irving Azoff has too many artists already that are well-loved and he doesn’t do enough with them as it is. The only news about Journey recently is the band splitting in two - sound familiar? Don Henley and Irving Azoff refuse to put out any archival Eagles material, which would be a huge chunk of money for them. Bon Jovi hasn’t done anything of note after 2015/6 other than the reunion with Sambora at the R&RHOF. I had no problem with Mike selling some of his publishing to them, but the entire brand? That’s too risky in my opinion. Sure, the band mismanages everything as it is, so maybe a minority partner could have helped, but this is just too far in my opinion. I can’t read the RS article because of their new paywall, so does it break down the percentages of BRI now? I’m not surprised that Mike did this for the money, but I really am about Brian and Al (and a little about Justyn and Jonah).

The two positive things I will say is it would be nice to have some more merchandise and to bring back the SiriusXM channel. I appreciate some of these ideas, but I’m still very skeptical. Maybe when the guys pass away (which I don’t want to happen for a while), their children could have sold a bigger stake, but not yet IMO.

Azoff isn't "managing" the band in the way he does those other artists.

Iconic is essentially sort of taking on the Beach Boys/BRI the way they would the estate of Elvis or Prince or something. There may yet still be some areas where the band can create *new* material, but I doubt Iconic was betting on that when they cut this deal.

I don't think we'll see *less* product, including archival releases. We'd likely see *more*, because the whole point of buying into the BBs/BRI is to monetize it and capitalize on their investment. And also, and I can't emphasize this enough (and Al specifically mentions this as well in the interview surprisingly), cutting this deal has *removed* the roadblock of stuff getting bogged down in the Brian-Mike-Al-Carl's Estate voting bottlenecks. There is now one entity making the final decisions. Backroom politics and back-scratching aren't really at play any more.

I'm sure this is why the deal *had* to be for a majority stake. Why would any company pay a ton of money for a minority stake, where they'd still be beholden to the same politics and dysfunction that have been going on for decades?

It sounds like, stunningly, the band members *like* the idea of the decisions being taken out of their hands. Either way, they got a *s**t-ton* of money to do it.

And, for what it's worth, from what I'm hearing *right now* and what I've been hearing in recent weeks and months, things are *good*, and getting better in BB land. "Feel Flows" will hopefully just be the tip of the iceberg. Amend that with a million asterisks if you want, but I'm hearing *good* things right now.

I don't think it's impossible that we could end up looking back at this and thinking that they should have cut a deal like this 10 or 20 years ago.

Without spilling beans about specifics you can't divulge, would you say it's fair to surmise that this whole Azoff deal being negotiated during 2020 was only an element of, and not the sole reason, for the FF set being jeopardized last year?

I tend to think that the big bucks of this deal (and what must have been a convincing pitch to all BRI members) finally convinced Mike that it would be in his best financial longterm interest to put aside his limited vision for branding of the band that could have curtailed the full vision for FF.

I also have to wonder if this whole deal would never have happened had the pandemic not forced all the parties to be able to sit around with time to think stuff over, combined with their income being jeopardized, resulting in the perfect situation to receive (and respond positively to) a smartly-worded pitch from an outsider with deep pockets - who I'm assuming sounded like they knew the best way to monetize the brand for years to come. If so, it's an amazing batch of lemonade to come out of the lemons of this awful pandemic.

I hope that Irving Azoff becomes known as the 21st century Jack Rieley for the brand, and does as much to lift up the brand as Jack did back in the day. Cool
« Last Edit: February 18, 2021, 01:30:23 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #53 on: February 18, 2021, 01:38:08 PM »

I’m also going to be negative here, sorry everyone. I don’t know as much as a lot of members here do, but what I do know is that Irving Azoff has too many artists already that are well-loved and he doesn’t do enough with them as it is. The only news about Journey recently is the band splitting in two - sound familiar? Don Henley and Irving Azoff refuse to put out any archival Eagles material, which would be a huge chunk of money for them. Bon Jovi hasn’t done anything of note after 2015/6 other than the reunion with Sambora at the R&RHOF. I had no problem with Mike selling some of his publishing to them, but the entire brand? That’s too risky in my opinion. Sure, the band mismanages everything as it is, so maybe a minority partner could have helped, but this is just too far in my opinion. I can’t read the RS article because of their new paywall, so does it break down the percentages of BRI now? I’m not surprised that Mike did this for the money, but I really am about Brian and Al (and a little about Justyn and Jonah).

The two positive things I will say is it would be nice to have some more merchandise and to bring back the SiriusXM channel. I appreciate some of these ideas, but I’m still very skeptical. Maybe when the guys pass away (which I don’t want to happen for a while), their children could have sold a bigger stake, but not yet IMO.

Azoff isn't "managing" the band in the way he does those other artists.

Iconic is essentially sort of taking on the Beach Boys/BRI the way they would the estate of Elvis or Prince or something. There may yet still be some areas where the band can create *new* material, but I doubt Iconic was betting on that when they cut this deal.

I don't think we'll see *less* product, including archival releases. We'd likely see *more*, because the whole point of buying into the BBs/BRI is to monetize it and capitalize on their investment. And also, and I can't emphasize this enough (and Al specifically mentions this as well in the interview surprisingly), cutting this deal has *removed* the roadblock of stuff getting bogged down in the Brian-Mike-Al-Carl's Estate voting bottlenecks. There is now one entity making the final decisions. Backroom politics and back-scratching aren't really at play any more.

I'm sure this is why the deal *had* to be for a majority stake. Why would any company pay a ton of money for a minority stake, where they'd still be beholden to the same politics and dysfunction that have been going on for decades?

It sounds like, stunningly, the band members *like* the idea of the decisions being taken out of their hands. Either way, they got a *s**t-ton* of money to do it.

And, for what it's worth, from what I'm hearing *right now* and what I've been hearing in recent weeks and months, things are *good*, and getting better in BB land. "Feel Flows" will hopefully just be the tip of the iceberg. Amend that with a million asterisks if you want, but I'm hearing *good* things right now.

I don't think it's impossible that we could end up looking back at this and thinking that they should have cut a deal like this 10 or 20 years ago.

Without spilling beans about specifics you can't divulge, would you say it's fair to surmise that this whole Azoff deal being negotiated during 2020 was only an element of, and not the sole reason, for the FF set being jeopardized last year?

I tend to think that the big bucks of this deal (and what must have been a convincing pitch to all BRI members) finally convinced Mike that it would be in his best financial longterm interest to put aside his limited vision for branding of the band that could have curtailed the full vision for FF.

I also have to wonder if this whole deal would never have happened had the pandemic not forced all the parties to be able to sit around with time to think stuff over, combined with their income being jeopardized, resulting in the perfect situation to receive (and respond positively to) a smartly-worded pitch from an outsider with deep pockets - who I'm assuming sounded like they knew the best way to monetize the brand for years to come. If so, it's an amazing batch of lemonade to come out of the lemons of this awful pandemic.

I hope that Irving Azoff becomes known as the 21st century Jack Rieley for the brand, and does as much to lift up the brand as Jack did back in the day. Cool


I'll say this: The "circular firing squad" was a reference to actual members. There were roadblocks to "Feel Flows" being put up by *people*, not companies.

Thankfully, it appears a bunch of factors, including the simple passage of time, some shifts in power/leverage, and just perhaps some realization that more product is good for everybody, have dictated that "Feel Flows" is on the way to us, and more good things are in the offing.
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« Reply #54 on: February 18, 2021, 01:45:54 PM »

I’m also going to be negative here, sorry everyone. I don’t know as much as a lot of members here do, but what I do know is that Irving Azoff has too many artists already that are well-loved and he doesn’t do enough with them as it is. The only news about Journey recently is the band splitting in two - sound familiar? Don Henley and Irving Azoff refuse to put out any archival Eagles material, which would be a huge chunk of money for them. Bon Jovi hasn’t done anything of note after 2015/6 other than the reunion with Sambora at the R&RHOF. I had no problem with Mike selling some of his publishing to them, but the entire brand? That’s too risky in my opinion. Sure, the band mismanages everything as it is, so maybe a minority partner could have helped, but this is just too far in my opinion. I can’t read the RS article because of their new paywall, so does it break down the percentages of BRI now? I’m not surprised that Mike did this for the money, but I really am about Brian and Al (and a little about Justyn and Jonah).

The two positive things I will say is it would be nice to have some more merchandise and to bring back the SiriusXM channel. I appreciate some of these ideas, but I’m still very skeptical. Maybe when the guys pass away (which I don’t want to happen for a while), their children could have sold a bigger stake, but not yet IMO.

Azoff isn't "managing" the band in the way he does those other artists.

Iconic is essentially sort of taking on the Beach Boys/BRI the way they would the estate of Elvis or Prince or something. There may yet still be some areas where the band can create *new* material, but I doubt Iconic was betting on that when they cut this deal.

I don't think we'll see *less* product, including archival releases. We'd likely see *more*, because the whole point of buying into the BBs/BRI is to monetize it and capitalize on their investment. And also, and I can't emphasize this enough (and Al specifically mentions this as well in the interview surprisingly), cutting this deal has *removed* the roadblock of stuff getting bogged down in the Brian-Mike-Al-Carl's Estate voting bottlenecks. There is now one entity making the final decisions. Backroom politics and back-scratching aren't really at play any more.

I'm sure this is why the deal *had* to be for a majority stake. Why would any company pay a ton of money for a minority stake, where they'd still be beholden to the same politics and dysfunction that have been going on for decades?

It sounds like, stunningly, the band members *like* the idea of the decisions being taken out of their hands. Either way, they got a *s**t-ton* of money to do it.

And, for what it's worth, from what I'm hearing *right now* and what I've been hearing in recent weeks and months, things are *good*, and getting better in BB land. "Feel Flows" will hopefully just be the tip of the iceberg. Amend that with a million asterisks if you want, but I'm hearing *good* things right now.

I don't think it's impossible that we could end up looking back at this and thinking that they should have cut a deal like this 10 or 20 years ago.

Without spilling beans about specifics you can't divulge, would you say it's fair to surmise that this whole Azoff deal being negotiated during 2020 was only an element of, and not the sole reason, for the FF set being jeopardized last year?

I tend to think that the big bucks of this deal (and what must have been a convincing pitch to all BRI members) finally convinced Mike that it would be in his best financial longterm interest to put aside his limited vision for branding of the band that could have curtailed the full vision for FF.

I also have to wonder if this whole deal would never have happened had the pandemic not forced all the parties to be able to sit around with time to think stuff over, combined with their income being jeopardized, resulting in the perfect situation to receive (and respond positively to) a smartly-worded pitch from an outsider with deep pockets - who I'm assuming sounded like they knew the best way to monetize the brand for years to come. If so, it's an amazing batch of lemonade to come out of the lemons of this awful pandemic.

I hope that Irving Azoff becomes known as the 21st century Jack Rieley for the brand, and does as much to lift up the brand as Jack did back in the day. Cool


I'll say this: The "circular firing squad" was a reference to actual members. There were roadblocks to "Feel Flows" being put up by *people*, not companies.

Thankfully, it appears a bunch of factors, including the simple passage of time, some shifts in power/leverage, and just perhaps some realization that more product is good for everybody, have dictated that "Feel Flows" is on the way to us, and more good things are in the offing.

Amen to that.
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« Reply #55 on: February 18, 2021, 01:54:25 PM »


So the Beach Boys "brand" stands for playing an event that alienates a lot of the fan base, caused negative publicity for the brand and name in the non-music press, and Brian and Al raised objections not because they are board members who had a vote with BRI who were not informed of this until it hit the press but rather because they couldn't accept it for other reasons?

Any person of a mindset to have been offended, or alienated, by the killing-exotic-animals-for-sport show should have already been alienated by the Beach Boys long before then.  If my post appears to be callous, it's because I don't respect the Beach Boys "brand" (I respect certain Beach Boys music) and expect nothing from it except that sort of thing.   But hey, maybe Irving Azoff will come to the rescue.  (He's gotten good press locally in L.A. for rescuing beloved, long-standing deli and hamburger establishments that risked being closed) Whether an image-cleanse and long-term memory-holing process would be good or bad at this point is an open question, in my view. 
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« Reply #56 on: February 18, 2021, 02:04:13 PM »


So the Beach Boys "brand" stands for playing an event that alienates a lot of the fan base, caused negative publicity for the brand and name in the non-music press, and Brian and Al raised objections not because they are board members who had a vote with BRI who were not informed of this until it hit the press but rather because they couldn't accept it for other reasons?

Any person of a mindset to have been offended, or alienated, by the killing-exotic-animals-for-sport show should have already been alienated by the Beach Boys long before then.  If my post appears to be callous, it's because I don't respect the Beach Boys "brand" (I respect certain Beach Boys music) and expect nothing from it except that sort of thing.   But hey, maybe Irving Azoff will come to the rescue.  (He's gotten good press locally in L.A. for rescuing beloved, long-standing deli and hamburger establishments that risked being closed) Whether an image-cleanse and long-term memory-holing process would be good or bad at this point is an open question, in my view.  

I can say that I'm pretty certain that gigs like that trophy hunting gig or the Trump fundraiser gigs will *not* be happening going forward with Iconic as majority shareholder. No company can completely flip the reputation of a brand in the eyes of *everybody*. But when it comes to stuff like those few controversial bookings from last year, I believe the Iconic setup will not allow that sort of thing to happen in the future.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2021, 02:04:48 PM by HeyJude » Logged

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« Reply #57 on: February 18, 2021, 02:08:25 PM »


So the Beach Boys "brand" stands for playing an event that alienates a lot of the fan base, caused negative publicity for the brand and name in the non-music press, and Brian and Al raised objections not because they are board members who had a vote with BRI who were not informed of this until it hit the press but rather because they couldn't accept it for other reasons?

Any person of a mindset to have been offended, or alienated, by the killing-exotic-animals-for-sport show should have already been alienated by the Beach Boys long before then.  If my post appears to be callous, it's because I don't respect the Beach Boys "brand" (I respect certain Beach Boys music) and expect nothing from it except that sort of thing.   But hey, maybe Irving Azoff will come to the rescue.  (He's gotten good press locally in L.A. for rescuing beloved, long-standing deli and hamburger establishments that risked being closed) Whether an image-cleanse and long-term memory-holing process would be good or bad at this point is an open question, in my view. 

Point in bold: If the idea is to find new listeners to carry the brand forward and expand it even more, the kinds of new listeners who are sustaining the catalogs of Queen, Fleetwood Mac, Hall & Oates as *new* listeners often under 21 years old, should their exposure to something new be positive, or is it ok to generate negative press by playing a stupid one-off show they really did not need to do except to make a few bucks that amounts to pocket change for Mike? I don't know how new listeners could be expected to have already been alienated by a band who they don't know.

The whole point is to say there is an established fan base in place, but they alone will not sustain this brand moving forward, and to do that we need to attract or appeal to *new* listeners and age groups. Exactly like the legacy bands I mentioned earlier.

And the way to appeal to a teenager in 2020-21 is probably not playing a trophy hunting convention gig for food money.
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« Reply #58 on: February 18, 2021, 02:11:03 PM »


So the Beach Boys "brand" stands for playing an event that alienates a lot of the fan base, caused negative publicity for the brand and name in the non-music press, and Brian and Al raised objections not because they are board members who had a vote with BRI who were not informed of this until it hit the press but rather because they couldn't accept it for other reasons?

Any person of a mindset to have been offended, or alienated, by the killing-exotic-animals-for-sport show should have already been alienated by the Beach Boys long before then.  If my post appears to be callous, it's because I don't respect the Beach Boys "brand" (I respect certain Beach Boys music) and expect nothing from it except that sort of thing.   But hey, maybe Irving Azoff will come to the rescue.  (He's gotten good press locally in L.A. for rescuing beloved, long-standing deli and hamburger establishments that risked being closed) Whether an image-cleanse and long-term memory-holing process would be good or bad at this point is an open question, in my view.  

I can say that I'm pretty certain that gigs like that trophy hunting gig or the Trump fundraiser gigs will *not* be happening going forward with Iconic as majority shareholder. No company can completely flip the reputation of a brand in the eyes of *everybody*. But when it comes to stuff like those few controversial bookings from last year, I believe the Iconic setup will not allow that sort of thing to happen in the future.

Let's hope that's the case moving forward.
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« Reply #59 on: February 18, 2021, 02:22:39 PM »

Maybe that’s why Mike was under his own name at mar lago.
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« Reply #60 on: February 18, 2021, 02:40:29 PM »

Maybe that’s why Mike was under his own name at mar lago.

I was thinking the exact same thing.

And as evidenced by the amount of news articles that stated The Beach Boys were playing that gig, the brand confusion of "Just Mike Love" vs. "The Beach Boys" is a real thing, and damage has been done.

Hopefully this new deal will go a good ways to try and repair things, they'll have a lot of work to do.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2021, 02:44:03 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #61 on: February 18, 2021, 02:50:17 PM »

Maybe that’s why Mike was under his own name at mar lago.

Well judging by the very short clip I saw, that looked and sounded like nothing more than the house band playing Kokomo (badly) while Mike joined in. Even as a guest at the partyI don’t think he would have needed much persuasion to sing a tune or two.
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« Reply #62 on: February 18, 2021, 04:20:55 PM »

Lost in all this is a nice little blurb in the RS article where Brian mentions (in addition to daily walks....which is a good sign re: his back) working with a vocal coach 3 times/week. That’s usually a good indicator some *current* activity is going to be taking place...
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« Reply #63 on: February 18, 2021, 04:27:54 PM »

Lost in all this is a nice little blurb in the RS article where Brian mentions (in addition to daily walks....which is a good sign re: his back) working with a vocal coach 3 times/week. That’s usually a good indicator some *current* activity is going to be taking place...

That is super news indeed Smiley
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« Reply #64 on: February 18, 2021, 05:01:35 PM »

This is amazing news for one simple reason.  ..The Beach Boys are the worst managed band in music, I have been saying it for years. Every aspect... the catalogue, branding, merch, promotion, touring.

Let's hope  a big change happens
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« Reply #65 on: February 18, 2021, 05:05:24 PM »

A statement from Mike on Twitter:



Edit: Mike has a more substantial post on Facebook:

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« Reply #66 on: February 18, 2021, 05:09:57 PM »

I'm cautiously optimistic about this news. You always have to wait and see how things truly play out of course, but there are some pretty encouraging quotes in those articles.
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« Reply #67 on: February 18, 2021, 05:19:55 PM »

It's all about taxes.  Capital gains sound like they will be 39% under Biden.   Just the beginning for older performrs.
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« Reply #68 on: February 18, 2021, 05:22:16 PM »

If only this had happened in 1961...
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« Reply #69 on: February 18, 2021, 05:45:29 PM »

If only this had happened in 1961...

I was thinking that it's kinda sad that it's at this late date in the band's career that they (seemingly) figured out how to do things right about this stuff. Better late than never, I suppose.

It's really quite fascinating to think about the reasons for why this didn't happen sooner. I guess mismanagement/dysfunction runs deep in the roots of this band, but maybe it's because either they didn't really seek something like this out themselves, or maybe the right person and right deal just rarely came along to make an offer to them.

Jack Rieley apparently gave the band a really great pitch, and found a way to appeal to the differing factions at the time. What he said must've sounded logical and convincing. Plus, the band were probably pretty desperate to course correct at that point due to their popularity in being in free fall.

I have to think that Azoff must've figured out the way (obviously, money and deep pockets talk, but still it must've been pitched with wisdom, grace, and forethought on how to appeal to all the band members/wives, etc.) to convince them that this was the right thing to do. I mean, they only really had to cede a level of control in order to cash in, and cash in big.

I am guessing that Mike and the others saw their contemporaries selling their catalogs lately for big bucks, so maybe that laid the groundwork a bit for The BB members to think that if Bob Dylan, etc. bit on similar deals, that it would be wise to follow suit, much like corporations doing copycat moves once it seems that other corporations who have their sh*t better together have done similar moves first.

But really, maybe it ultimately was (as I mentioned before) more a matter of the desperation to have income coming in during pandemic times, to make the members (and any stubborn holdouts) realize that this is a wise route to go. Maybe they had to have their income drop off to a point where they HAD to figure out a plan B.

I also have to think that the decades of fine work of Mark and Alan, Howie and Jon, etc. paved the way for this to happen, since they all have been and continue to be trailblazers in leaning into deep exploration of ridiculously untapped creative wells of music in the band's vaults. I can't think that the work those guys have done didn't help plant the seeds for someone with BIG bucks to come along and realize how much potential there really is.

The staggering greatness and obvious undervaluing of this band has been hiding in plain sight for a LONG while now.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2021, 05:50:34 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
Shady
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« Reply #70 on: February 18, 2021, 05:56:44 PM »

Does this mean The Beach Boys won't receive royalties from their album sales and streams anymore?
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According to someone who would know.

Seriously, there was a Beach Boys Love You condom?!  Amazing.
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« Reply #71 on: February 18, 2021, 06:07:20 PM »

Dear Irving

Just a heads up. I suspect you will have some say over future interviews. So if any group member plays the ‘the Wilson’s did drugs’ card, could you give him a slap please?

Cheers 👍
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« Reply #72 on: February 18, 2021, 06:32:37 PM »

Interesting. Folks are thinking about what this means for the members right now, but let's accept they likely have 5-7 years more activity at most.

Iconic can help them pull things together for one last hurrah, but the big potential is for -- ahem -- afterward. Not to be ghoulish, but the deaths of some of these guys are going to be a big deal. Remember what happened after Aretha and Prince died, and both of them were not at the apex of their careers. They had a huge amount of money coming in, and the estates ended up imploding. I think having Iconic there makes a huge amount of sense for the inevitable posthumous life of the band. There will be a _lot_ of money to be made.

It's not for nothing that Carl's kids seem to have been big movers in this. They understand the complications of running this as an estate.
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« Reply #73 on: February 18, 2021, 06:35:29 PM »

Also, apparently Melinda has forgiven and forgotten, huh?
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« Reply #74 on: February 18, 2021, 07:50:49 PM »

Also, apparently Melinda has forgiven and forgotten, huh?

I was just about to mention this. I guess money and good ideas talk...
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Summer's gone...it's finally sinking in
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