Please sign petition for Beach Boys to withdraw from performing on 2/5/20

[Amy B.]

Where are people getting all the stuff about shooting lions and elephants from?

From articles like these:
https://www.wideopenspaces.com/us-ban-elephant-hunt-imports-stirs-controversy/
http://advocacy.britannica.com/blog/advocacy/2020/01/canadian-safari-club-chapter-shuts-down-botswana-elephant-trophy-hunt-auction-following-protests/
https://www.safariclub.org/news/sci-supports-hunting-part-lion-conservation

[juggler]

I would hope that no one who's a fan of the music will let Mike ill-advised gig stop them from enjoying the music and supporting future archival releases.  I oppose trophy hunting and I opposed the gig, but I didn't sign the petition because I had and have no intention of boycotting the music.

A few months ago, I saw Mark L and Alan Boyd sitting together at David Leaf's UCLA event, and I was reminded that Mark has been doing tremendous work over 30 (!) years delivering us great stuff and preserving the legacy of the group's brilliant work particularly from its first decade.  The same is true for Alan Boyd for almost as long.  I sincerely hope that no one here thinks they have some sort of moral high ground in boycotting the work of Mark and Alan (and Brian, Al, Carl and Dennis, too) because of one stupid gig by Mike Love & associates for a despicable organization.

Boycott the Mike-Bruce stage show if you must, but a lot of us were ignoring that already anyway.

[rab2591]

Where are people getting all the stuff about shooting lions and elephants from?

SCI's very convention has taxidermied lions on display all over the place. The Safari Club (SCI) outcried against Trump's decision to ban imported elephant "trophies" in 2017 because they are in full support of the killing of elephants.

[CenturyDeprived]

I would hope that no one who's a fan of the music will let Mike ill-advised gig stop them from enjoying the music and supporting future archival releases.  I oppose trophy hunting and I opposed the gig, but I didn't sign the petition because I had and have no intention of boycotting the music.

A few months ago, I saw Mark L and Alan Boyd sitting together at David Leaf's UCLA event, and I was reminded that Mark has been tremendous work over 30 (!) years delivering us great stuff and preserving the legacy of the group's brilliant work particularly from its first decade.  The same is true for Alan Boyd for almost as long.  I sincerely hope that no one here thinks they have some sort of moral high ground in boycotting the work of Mark and Alan (and Brian, Al, Carl and Dennis, too) because of one stupid gig by Mike Love & associates for a despicable organization.

I'd like to take this moment to once again thank Mark and Alan for their great, great, great work, and I feel awful if these fine folks who are doing such an important job with historical preservation and archiving have to deal with any residual fallout from this, indirectly as a result of the many angry fans (such as myself) who are livid at the current situation. I don't want that to happen.

Yes, the legacy of great work of this band needs to remain preserved. Mike being a POS doesn't change the great past work of the Wilsons, and Al, Dave, and the rest.

Truthfully, all I want is for goodness and light to win out, and for the bad guys to lose.

[marcella27]

Okay, so here's a fun question.  A couple of months ago I bought tickets for a Mike and Bruce show in April.  They're coming to my city, and I think the band generally does a good job with the music, so I thought why not?  Obviously, I would rather walk over hot coals than go now.  Mike Love is dead to me, and to those that think that's an over-reaction, I'll just say that I have been involved in conservation personally and professionally, donate money to conservation; it is an extremely important issue to me.  Mike's hypocrisy on environmental (and freedom of expression!) issues are unforgivable, in my view.  

But what do I do with the tickets?  These are the options I'm thinking of:

1 - sell the tickets and donate the money to a conservation organization.  There would be some satisfaction in this, but in the end, it still fills those two seats.  

2 - make a concerted effort to get a refund, and explain why.  I think this would have to involve getting in touch with Mike's management, and while I know it would be futile, might it at least send a message?  

3 - go to the concert, but do it wearing a custom-printed t-shirt with an anti-trophy hunting/anti Mike hypocrisy message.  Could be fun?  

All other suggestions are welcome.  

[RJM]

Where are people getting all the stuff about shooting lions and elephants from?

Um, the pictures of The Trump boys with dead animals?

[CenturyDeprived]

2 - make a concerted effort to get a refund, and explain why.  I think this would have to involve getting in touch with Mike's management, and while I know it would be futile, might it at least send a message? 

I think you should try to get a refund. Because if they ignore a well-written, truly sincere note, it will just further show what scum they are.

If by chance they honor your request, it would be a shocker, but it'd be a sign of a tiny bit of integrity that somehow snuck into their organization.

[Pretty Funky]

Okay, so here's a fun question.  A couple of months ago I bought tickets for a Mike and Bruce show in April.  They're coming to my city, and I think the band generally does a good job with the music, so I thought why not?  Obviously, I would rather walk over hot coals than go now.  Mike Love is dead to me, and to those that think that's an over-reaction, I'll just say that I have been involved in conservation personally and professionally, donate money to conservation; it is an extremely important issue to me.  Mike's hypocrisy on environmental (and freedom of expression!) issues are unforgivable, in my view.  

But what do I do with the tickets?  These are the options I'm thinking of:

1 - sell the tickets and donate the money to a conservation organization.  There would be some satisfaction in this, but in the end, it still fills those two seats.  

2 - make a concerted effort to get a refund, and explain why.  I think this would have to involve getting in touch with Mike's management, and while I know it would be futile, might it at least send a message?  

3 - go to the concert, but do it wearing a custom-printed t-shirt with an anti-trophy hunting/anti Mike hypocrisy message.  Could be fun?  

All other suggestions are welcome.  

Good luck getting a refund. I’d go wearing this. Freedom of speech and all.

https://www.redbubble.com/i/t-shirt/STOP-TROPHY-HUNTING-by-Greenbaby/15782070.FB110

[sjeffery]

Okay, so here's a fun question.  A couple of months ago I bought tickets for a Mike and Bruce show in April.  They're coming to my city, and I think the band generally does a good job with the music, so I thought why not?  Obviously, I would rather walk over hot coals than go now.  Mike Love is dead to me, and to those that think that's an over-reaction, I'll just say that I have been involved in conservation personally and professionally, donate money to conservation; it is an extremely important issue to me.  Mike's hypocrisy on environmental (and freedom of expression!) issues are unforgivable, in my view.  

But what do I do with the tickets?  These are the options I'm thinking of:

1 - sell the tickets and donate the money to a conservation organization.  There would be some satisfaction in this, but in the end, it still fills those two seats.  

2 - make a concerted effort to get a refund, and explain why.  I think this would have to involve getting in touch with Mike's management, and while I know it would be futile, might it at least send a message?  

3 - go to the concert, but do it wearing a custom-printed t-shirt with an anti-trophy hunting/anti Mike hypocrisy message.  Could be fun?  

All other suggestions are welcome.  

I really like option #2. Now MIGHT be a good time to do this as they might want to try to calm things down. Also, if that didn't work, you could post their refusal to refund your money at as many ML and BB sites as possible. The upside of that is it might give others who bought tix prior to the SCI event the idea to do the same. It doesn't hurt for ML and management to see that this is not over and done with from the perspective of fans.

[CenturyDeprived]

[William Bowe]

Thanks for that CD - crude but effective. Has anyone else raised the possibility that Mike Love's eagerly awaited next solo album might consist of Nick Rivers covers?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoDYjJ2jmHc

[CenturyDeprived]

Thanks for that CD - crude but effective. Has anyone else raised the possibility that Mike Love's eagerly awaited next solo album might consist of Nick Rivers covers?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoDYjJ2jmHc

 

[The Nearest Faraway Place]

How many signatures would an online petition garner to strip Mike of the license?

I'd wager more than a few.

The problem is that Mike pays for it, it isn’t just given to him. So, whatever his latest contract says how long he has it, that’s how long he has it. But I do agree, he shouldn’t use it.
I would love if Brian got it back, and then put together a line up of himself, Blondie Chaplin, Ricky Fataar, Al Jardine, David Marks, and his current backing band. Basically everyone not involved with this. That would be a band worthy of the name The Beach Boys

[HeyJude]

How many signatures would an online petition garner to strip Mike of the license?

I'd wager more than a few.

The problem is that Mike pays for it, it isn’t just given to him. So, whatever his latest contract says how long he has it, that’s how long he has it. But I do agree, he shouldn’t use it.
I would love if Brian got it back, and then put together a line up of himself, Blondie Chaplin, Ricky Fataar, Al Jardine, David Marks, and his current backing band. Basically everyone not involved with this. That would be a band worthy of the name The Beach Boys

From what we've heard, there allegedly/supposedly hasn't been a vote on the license since that last final vote in 1998/99. That would imply that the license is awarded essentially in perpetuity. In other words, until or if the corporation votes otherwise.

Not sure what other provisions could be in there. For instance, they could vote tomorrow to take the license away. Mike would almost surely tie it up legally for eons, but let's say he didn't. I would assume there would have to be some time allowed to play already contracted dates.

Mike doesn't like pay up front for the license; he agrees to pay a percentage of proceeds to the corporation (and in turn, Mike collects 25% of those proceeds back again as a member of the corporation). 

Long story short, the most likely scenario is that Mike keeps the license likely until he retires or is deceased.

But technically, while extremely unlikely, one presumes BRI could vote to remove the license at any time. If all three other board members voted to do so, the exact sequence of events would be up in the air. Would they get a temporary injunction while Mike sued over this or that? None of this is likely to happen, as it just means more lawyer bills for everybody and less tour revenue (unless Brian and/or Al plan to obtain a license and tour all year).

[CenturyDeprived]

How many signatures would an online petition garner to strip Mike of the license?

I'd wager more than a few.

The problem is that Mike pays for it, it isn’t just given to him. So, whatever his latest contract says how long he has it, that’s how long he has it. But I do agree, he shouldn’t use it.
I would love if Brian got it back, and then put together a line up of himself, Blondie Chaplin, Ricky Fataar, Al Jardine, David Marks, and his current backing band. Basically everyone not involved with this. That would be a band worthy of the name The Beach Boys

From what we've heard, there allegedly/supposedly hasn't been a vote on the license since that last final vote in 1998/99. That would imply that the license is awarded essentially in perpetuity. In other words, until or if the corporation votes otherwise.

Not sure what other provisions could be in there. For instance, they could vote tomorrow to take the license away. Mike would almost surely tie it up legally for eons, but let's say he didn't. I would assume there would have to be some time allowed to play already contracted dates.

Mike doesn't like pay up front for the license; he agrees to pay a percentage of proceeds to the corporation (and in turn, Mike collects 25% of those proceeds back again as a member of the corporation).  

Long story short, the most likely scenario is that Mike keeps the license likely until he retires or is deceased.

But technically, while extremely unlikely, one presumes BRI could vote to remove the license at any time. If all three other board members voted to do so, the exact sequence of events would be up in the air. Would they get a temporary injunction while Mike sued over this or that? None of this is likely to happen, as it just means more lawyer bills for everybody and less tour revenue (unless Brian and/or Al plan to obtain a license and tour all year).

I really do think, based on Brian/Al/Dave's unified stance on this issue, which was met with Mike not budging an inch or acknowledging his former bandmates' intense feelings on this matter and essentially going rogue, compounded by the dipshit Don Jr. publicly mocking, bullying,and attempting to humiliate Brian being the final straw... that Melinda would go out of her way to ensure Mike is stripped of the license - both as a f*ck you to Mike, and also as a way for Brian/Al/Blondie/Dave to reclaim it - if she was able to do it relatively easily.

Yet legally speaking, it's damn near impossible without hell that nobody wants at this age. And as a result of that dark void of legal nightmare, I doubt Brian or Al would agree to starting those proceedings. Not sure if Carl's estate could be swayed one way or another if there was a very intense unified front from Brian and Al.

Yet I would not doubt if some lawyer phone calls have been made preliminarily, just to check and see if there's anything else they can do. After all, Brian's message said "there's nothing we can do" which to me, implies they checked to see if that was in fact unfortunately the case.

Would be interesting to see how many signatures a petition to strip Mike of the license could garner, though, just so Mike knows how intensely the public feels about him using the band name in the aftermath of having sh*t all over the legacy in such a profound way. I'm sure there would be plenty of former Mike & Bruce show fans and attendees who'd now sign it, too. Not just "Brianistas".

Funny how remarkably similar it is to the hot mess that's going on in the white house now.

[HeyJude]

I interpreted Brian's "there's nothing we can do" to mean that at such a late stage, there's nothing that could be done regarding that particular show, even if they moved to attempt a change to the license.

That being said, yes, I still think it's unlikely any legitimate moves have been made to do anything about the license, for the myriad of reasons we've been discussing.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Impeach Mike

Maybe I should do a poll *cough*

[Needleinthehay]

I know everyone says if they voted to strip mike of the license it would be "legal hell", etc....does anyone know exactly how? I mean, from what is understood (as far as i can tell) if the voting members of BRI voted to strip the license, isnt that pretty cut and dry? They gave him the license and they could vote to take it away, right?

Of course, they would literally be voting to strip themselves of hundreds of thousands of dollars a year of free money, basically...What is the number? Something like 10 or 20 pct of his GROSS touring income? (which is partly why he has to do the 'walmart' touring method) because 10 or 20 pct of the gross gets taken off the top...Lets say he grosses 50k/show (probably more) and does 100 shows (I know he usually does 150/year or so) and its only 10 pct...thats 500k/year divided by 5 (?) members, so thats 100k/year each for doing nothing. And it's probably more, thats a conservative estimate...Not to mention he keeps the beach boys name out there which stimulates record sales, etc. So we're probably talking about 200k/year each for each BRI member. Sure he's annoying and he plays at these terrible events that Don Jr and trophy hunters are at, but to be honest ,if it were me, i'd probably take the 200k/year and just deal with it....am i way off on my numbers?

Not to mention, how many more seats would Brian sell if he went out as "the beach boys"? i doubt very many more....His name is well know. It's Mike's that isnt, hence why he was chomping at the bit to buy the license. When he was going out as "mike love" or "california beach band" or whatever it was, he barely sold any tickets and was playing small venues, as far as i can tell.  I mean how many baby boomers want to see "Mike Love" vs "The Beach Boys"...its a huge difference. Vs How many want to see Brian Wilson vs The Beach Boys? Not a huge difference. YOu can tell because Brian plays about the same size venues as mike as sells similiar (if not more) tickets than "The Beach Boys"

[Toursiveu]

If Mike was stripped of the licence and it went to Brian and Brian / Al / Blondie / maybe David started to tour as The Beach Boys, would Brian get the sole custody of Bruce ?

[The Nearest Faraway Place]

How many signatures would an online petition garner to strip Mike of the license?

I'd wager more than a few.

The problem is that Mike pays for it, it isn’t just given to him. So, whatever his latest contract says how long he has it, that’s how long he has it. But I do agree, he shouldn’t use it.
I would love if Brian got it back, and then put together a line up of himself, Blondie Chaplin, Ricky Fataar, Al Jardine, David Marks, and his current backing band. Basically everyone not involved with this. That would be a band worthy of the name The Beach Boys

From what we've heard, there allegedly/supposedly hasn't been a vote on the license since that last final vote in 1998/99. That would imply that the license is awarded essentially in perpetuity. In other words, until or if the corporation votes otherwise.

Not sure what other provisions could be in there. For instance, they could vote tomorrow to take the license away. Mike would almost surely tie it up legally for eons, but let's say he didn't. I would assume there would have to be some time allowed to play already contracted dates.

Mike doesn't like pay up front for the license; he agrees to pay a percentage of proceeds to the corporation (and in turn, Mike collects 25% of those proceeds back again as a member of the corporation).  

Long story short, the most likely scenario is that Mike keeps the license likely until he retires or is deceased.

But technically, while extremely unlikely, one presumes BRI could vote to remove the license at any time. If all three other board members voted to do so, the exact sequence of events would be up in the air. Would they get a temporary injunction while Mike sued over this or that? None of this is likely to happen, as it just means more lawyer bills for everybody and less tour revenue (unless Brian and/or Al plan to obtain a license and tour all year).

I really do think, based on Brian/Al/Dave's unified stance on this issue, which was met with Mike not budging an inch or acknowledging his former bandmates' intense feelings on this matter and essentially going rogue, compounded by the dipshit Don Jr. publicly mocking, bullying,and attempting to humiliate Brian being the final straw... that Melinda would go out of her way to ensure Mike is stripped of the license - both as a f*ck you to Mike, and also as a way for Brian/Al/Blondie/Dave to reclaim it - if she was able to do it relatively easily.

Yet legally speaking, it's damn near impossible without hell that nobody wants at this age. And as a result of that dark void of legal nightmare, I doubt Brian or Al would agree to starting those proceedings. Not sure if Carl's estate could be swayed one way or another if there was a very intense unified front from Brian and Al.

Yet I would not doubt if some lawyer phone calls have been made preliminarily, just to check and see if there's anything else they can do. After all, Brian's message said "there's nothing we can do" which to me, implies they checked to see if that was in fact unfortunately the case.

Would be interesting to see how many signatures a petition to strip Mike of the license could garner, though, just so Mike knows how intensely the public feels about him using the band name in the aftermath of having sh*t all over the legacy in such a profound way. I'm sure there would be plenty of former Mike & Bruce show fans and attendees who'd now sign it, too. Not just "Brianistas".

Funny how remarkably similar it is to the hot mess that's going on in the white house now.

Strange question, but does Dennis’s estate have any say? Does Dennis’s estate even have any connection to BRI? Does Dennis even have an estate?
I’ve really never looked into it, but I here way more about Carl’s estate than Dennis’s.
Also, I want to know Bruce’s opinion on all of this. Did he want to do it? Is he contractually obligated to do anything Mike does? And why does Bruce play with Mike and not Brian? As far as I know, Brian and Bruce have an ok relationship, or do they not anymore?

[CenturyDeprived]

I know everyone says if they voted to strip mike of the license it would be "legal hell", etc....does anyone know exactly how? I mean, from what is understood (as far as i can tell) if the voting members of BRI voted to strip the license, isnt that pretty cut and dry? They gave him the license and they could vote to take it away, right?

For one, I think Mike could try to threaten members with other frivolous lawsuits of who knows what nature, as basically a threat of retaliation. 2005 lawsuit as an example, there was not a leg to stand on, but his lawyers pulled nonsense out of their asses, complete with fictional "wronged" people to testify.  

And/or perhaps he could throw his legal weight around with his BRI vote in order to pull something, where he doesn't sign off on god knows what, or stalls this behind-the-scenes thing, or that behind-the-scenes thing in retaliation. Legal bullying to make his opponents' lives a living hell in one way or another.

So yeah, I am guessing if he was vengeful enough he could even block the Sunflower box set, etc, heaven forbid, even though that'd be hurting himself too in the process. But he's shown in the past that he will cut off his nose to spite his face. So that's a big question mark. There are articles talking today about how many people in Trump's orbit operate out of fear of retaliation. I think Mike in some ways is no different.

It's a hornet's nest.  It's awful to even think about. Yet, I'm sure the desire by some of the other BRI members is there, to some degree anyway.

[juggler]

Strange question, but does Dennis’s estate have any say? Does Dennis’s estate even have any connection to BRI? Does Dennis even have an estate?
I’ve really never looked into it, but I here way more about Carl’s estate than Dennis’s.
Also, I want to know Bruce’s opinion on all of this. Did he want to do it? Is he contractually obligated to do anything Mike does? And why does Bruce play with Mike and not Brian? As far as I know, Brian and Bruce have an ok relationship, or do they not anymore?

Dennis' estate has no say.   Shortly after his death, Dennis' estate sold his share back to BRI to pay debts. This has been reported in several Beach Boys books.

[CenturyDeprived]

Strange question, but does Dennis’s estate have any say? Does Dennis’s estate even have any connection to BRI? Does Dennis even have an estate?
I’ve really never looked into it, but I here way more about Carl’s estate than Dennis’s.
Also, I want to know Bruce’s opinion on all of this. Did he want to do it? Is he contractually obligated to do anything Mike does? And why does Bruce play with Mike and not Brian? As far as I know, Brian and Bruce have an ok relationship, or do they not anymore?

Dennis' estate has no say.   Shortly after his death, Dennis' estate sold his share back to BRI to pay debts. This has been reported in several Beach Boys books.

Was Shawn the sole person who was in charge of doing that? It's so very, very sad. This almost is up there with Murry selling the catalog for peanuts when one thinks of how much money those shares would have generated by now.

[bossaroo]

If Mike was stripped of the licence and it went to Brian and Brian / Al / Blondie / maybe David started to tour as The Beach Boys, would Brian get the sole custody of Bruce ?

    

[juggler]

Shawn was not in charge of Dennis' estate.  The administrator of the estate was a lawyer named Shelley Surpin.

There's a ton of info about the case in these court records...
https://books.google.com/books?id=vdcd1e_SY5cC&lpg=RA2-PP1&ots=MWZvfql-SD&dq=estate%20of%20dennis%20c%20wilson&pg=RA4-PA6#v=onepage&q=surpin&f=false

One of the court briefs mentions that the estate was negotiating with Brother Records, and that there had been speculation of a figure of $200,000 to $600,000 (though the brief rejects that speculation as "irrelevant").  So, it's not clear how much the sale of Dennis' share generated. If someone were really interested, they'd probably have to dig further into the court records.