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Author Topic: Beach Boys 2020 Tour Thread  (Read 215825 times)
lastofmykind
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« Reply #900 on: July 15, 2020, 11:47:39 AM »

Before we get to our customary Mike bashing, and Mike and Donald Trump are buddies spewing arguments, lets use some basic common sense and take a look at what the science and the facts are telling us.  I will state openly I hold no opposition to Mike bringing the band back out on the road, to venues that have a feasible social distancing and face covering policy in place.  I agree with what was previously said about Mike and Bruce both being older and more susceptible to having a weakened immune system given their advanced ages.  Specifically to the concert that is being talked about above lets just use some raw data.  As of 7/12 Nebraska had something like 21,214 confirmed cases with 296 deaths.  According to the information that I sourced out just under 50% of the cases are from people from the ages of 20-44.  Roughly 35 percent of the cases are ages 44 and above.  This data I just shared was directly from the department of health for Nebraska's website.  With that being said, the target demographic for this concert is most likely those 44 and above, so by default the most likely patrons for this concert in Nebraska would be some of the lesser effected populations in the state.  The fans that would be going are less likely to be bringing the disease with them statistically speaking.  Another  tidbit that should be considered is the transmission rates for the disease.  When social distancing is practiced the transmission rate for COVID-19 drops 90%.  When social distancing is not practiced and only facial coverings are worn the transmission rate drops 65%.  All of this information was sourced from https://www.ucdavis.edu/coronavirus/news/your-mask-cuts-own-risk-65-percent/ .  Ultimately the decision to attend is based off comfort level, but I would say that if the venue has a mandatory social distancing and facial covering policy that I would go to the concert with out fear of reprisal. 


And here we go again with the "Mike bashing" routine. So fans can't post their opinions unless they agree with Mike up and down the list, or fans can't disagree with this kind of decision without being called haters or bashers?

I'll take a different tact in this reply and ask a direct question of you, as I recall from some previous discussions you seem to have more knowledge of the touring band's activities than the average fan. Considering how most of the other scheduled gigs surrounding this one in Nebraska have been rescheduled or cancelled outright...

What is so important about Mike doing this particular gig that makes it worth the effort to play for what could be around 2,000 fans or less in Nebraska?

In this case I'm gonna comment on your intent prior to the content of your question.  I think its fair to say the intent of your question is that you don't find it necessary for The Beach Boys or any band to get out and gig in this current climate, and half of me agrees with you on that GF.  We all know Mike doesn't "need the money" that this particular gig or any gig in the rest of 2020 would pay him.  But one thought I would posit here, I would imagine that the main source of income for most of the band members is this gig.  Mike may feel a sense of urgency to get all of his MELECO employees (Band and Road Crew) a "pay day".  I don't claim that to be a fact, I'm not aware of nor do I care to have knowledge of any band members financial status, that is just purely an observation I am making. 
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« Reply #901 on: July 15, 2020, 12:12:27 PM »

Before we get to our customary Mike bashing, and Mike and Donald Trump are buddies spewing arguments, lets use some basic common sense and take a look at what the science and the facts are telling us.  I will state openly I hold no opposition to Mike bringing the band back out on the road, to venues that have a feasible social distancing and face covering policy in place.  I agree with what was previously said about Mike and Bruce both being older and more susceptible to having a weakened immune system given their advanced ages.  Specifically to the concert that is being talked about above lets just use some raw data.  As of 7/12 Nebraska had something like 21,214 confirmed cases with 296 deaths.  According to the information that I sourced out just under 50% of the cases are from people from the ages of 20-44.  Roughly 35 percent of the cases are ages 44 and above.  This data I just shared was directly from the department of health for Nebraska's website.  With that being said, the target demographic for this concert is most likely those 44 and above, so by default the most likely patrons for this concert in Nebraska would be some of the lesser effected populations in the state.  The fans that would be going are less likely to be bringing the disease with them statistically speaking.  Another  tidbit that should be considered is the transmission rates for the disease.  When social distancing is practiced the transmission rate for COVID-19 drops 90%.  When social distancing is not practiced and only facial coverings are worn the transmission rate drops 65%.  All of this information was sourced from https://www.ucdavis.edu/coronavirus/news/your-mask-cuts-own-risk-65-percent/ .  Ultimately the decision to attend is based off comfort level, but I would say that if the venue has a mandatory social distancing and facial covering policy that I would go to the concert with out fear of reprisal. 


And here we go again with the "Mike bashing" routine. So fans can't post their opinions unless they agree with Mike up and down the list, or fans can't disagree with this kind of decision without being called haters or bashers?

I'll take a different tact in this reply and ask a direct question of you, as I recall from some previous discussions you seem to have more knowledge of the touring band's activities than the average fan. Considering how most of the other scheduled gigs surrounding this one in Nebraska have been rescheduled or cancelled outright...

What is so important about Mike doing this particular gig that makes it worth the effort to play for what could be around 2,000 fans or less in Nebraska?

In this case I'm gonna comment on your intent prior to the content of your question.  I think its fair to say the intent of your question is that you don't find it necessary for The Beach Boys or any band to get out and gig in this current climate, and half of me agrees with you on that GF.  We all know Mike doesn't "need the money" that this particular gig or any gig in the rest of 2020 would pay him.  But one thought I would posit here, I would imagine that the main source of income for most of the band members is this gig.  Mike may feel a sense of urgency to get all of his MELECO employees (Band and Road Crew) a "pay day".  I don't claim that to be a fact, I'm not aware of nor do I care to have knowledge of any band members financial status, that is just purely an observation I am making. 

The company that runs Mike's tour (as far as we know) appears to have obtained a PPP (Paycheck Protection Program) loan for somewhere between $350,000 and $1 Million:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,27234.0.html

Presumably/hopefully at least *some* people in that organization are being compensated via that loan (my general understanding is that some amount of that loan money is required by law to be paid out via payroll to avoid having to pay it all back).

That certainly only makes it *potentially less likely* that one single gig paycheck is so desperately needed.

In fact, in some cases, where employees aren't being paid by their company and are collecting the current expanded unemployment benefits, bringing employees back for *very little* work actually leads to those employees being *worse off* financially because it messes up their unemployment check.

In some cases, where companies have obtained PPP loans, they are bringing back just enough employees to pay out enough under the terms of the PPP loan so that they don't have to pay the loan back.

As you can see, there are many factors that could indicate good intentions, bad intentions, or just sheer irresponsibility.

In the case of this gig, irresponsibility is in my opinion unavoidably part of what's going on. Regardless of who is being paid what, and who needs what kind of funds, we know that if this show takes places, it is something that many, many experts have indicated is a bad idea and could lead to illness, illness that can lead to irreversible health damage (not everyone either gets better or dies), and also of course actual death.


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lastofmykind
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« Reply #902 on: July 15, 2020, 01:00:32 PM »

In a way this kind of reminds me of the line from Field of Dreams, If you build it they will come.  If they have the concert and enough tickets are sold that it becomes financially viable for the promoter to not have to cancel than so be it.  Like I said previously, I find no fault in people enjoying a concert if its done with social distancing and facial coverings.  Personally I would not go to a concert that did not have any type of social distancing and facial covering rules already in place.  Ultimately I guess this all boils down to the comfort level of the patrons willing to attend and the comfort of the band members to adequately and safely put on a show.
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« Reply #903 on: July 15, 2020, 01:30:55 PM »

In a way this kind of reminds me of the line from Field of Dreams, If you build it they will come.  If they have the concert and enough tickets are sold that it becomes financially viable for the promoter to not have to cancel than so be it.  Like I said previously, I find no fault in people enjoying a concert if its done with social distancing and facial coverings.  Personally I would not go to a concert that did not have any type of social distancing and facial covering rules already in place.  Ultimately I guess this all boils down to the comfort level of the patrons willing to attend and the comfort of the band members to adequately and safely put on a show.


If only it were that simple. Heaven forbid, but if the virus were to spread at that concert, then other different people after the concert could contract it from one of the attendees. "Innocent" people, who didn't choose to go to the concert and put themselves in that type of risky environment. What about their "comfort level"? And then it's the domino affect, where ICUs are filled to capacity, so further infections would just cause untold more stress on the medical system.

All in all it's just a bad idea right now. There are many far-reaching potential consequences that could happen as a result. I certainly don't want any of that to happen and the best way to avoid it is for the concert to not happen. The amount of people who are going to be walking around and taking off masks to eat and drink makes this an event of questionable safety in and of itself. All it takes is a few stubborn, dummy anti-maskers flaunting their "freedom", and I could virtually guarantee that this concert will have a number of those folks in attendance. Whether or not they decide to adhere to the rules is anybody's guess.

The bottom line is that people who have nothing to do with attending the show can be affected by this show happening if the worst were to happen. And it's not some completely ridiculous, far-fetched idea. The event simply is just damn irresponsible.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2020, 01:36:42 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #904 on: July 15, 2020, 04:03:55 PM »

Thanks for the replies to my question. I'd like to clarify more where I'm coming from and my thoughts on this. Ultimately they can do whatever they want, but in the current situation it just seems nonsensical top to bottom.

Of course Mike and the band would want to play, but they're not alone obviously, and there are hundreds of thousands if not millions of musicians and crew and staff who depend on live shows for a living who cannot work due to an unprecedented outbreak. That's just stating the obvious, but nearly everyone who works in and around the live entertainment industry is basically screwed over by this in either very large or somewhat substantial ways. And that includes me too as a musician, with friends who work in the business from Broadway to people who gig weekly. So yes, the fact they want to play and Mike loves to play is one thing, but no one is able to in any kind of normal capacity minus the buskers or people playing outdoors for 20 people eating dinner. It sucks, but Mike and the guys are not alone.

My issue, separate from the obvious health and safety issues as others addressed, is that playing this gig in Nebraska makes absolutely no sense from a purely logistical sense, not to mention the operations involved and the financial angle too.

Why, but why, would Mike take the crew to Nebraska for one gig on August 2, fly (or ride) home to the west coast, then fly to Ohio for the balloon festival on the 13th, then fly home again and wait over a month for the next gigs on the east coast, which aren't even guaranteed to happen at this point? It makes no sense! Even if the guys are chomping at the bit to play, these gigs wouldn't pay the bills for travel and logistics alone.

Beyond that, the Ohio balloon fest gig still has a "sold out" meet-and-greet listed on their website. Obviously that would have to change, I can't see running a meet and greet under these conditions and I wouldn't want to see Mike or Bruce or any of their fans have to get sick over something so inconsequential as a VIP package for fans.

So I seriously don't get it at all - Two gigs, over 10 days apart, in entirely different parts of the US and miles away from where the band is headquartered. Wanting to play gigs is one thing, but everyone is in the same boat, the entire mid-level to large-capacity entertainment and sports worlds have basically written off 2020 as a total loss, and here's Mike booked to play two random gigs in August. I hope he reconsiders, and I don't mean that with anything but concern for all involved. And yes, it sucks for the fans who want to see them or live bands in general, but there are a lot of things that suck right now which can't be postponed to 2021.
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« Reply #905 on: July 15, 2020, 04:18:54 PM »

Thanks for the replies to my question. I'd like to clarify more where I'm coming from and my thoughts on this. Ultimately they can do whatever they want, but in the current situation it just seems nonsensical top to bottom.

Of course Mike and the band would want to play, but they're not alone obviously, and there are hundreds of thousands if not millions of musicians and crew and staff who depend on live shows for a living who cannot work due to an unprecedented outbreak. That's just stating the obvious, but nearly everyone who works in and around the live entertainment industry is basically screwed over by this in either very large or somewhat substantial ways. And that includes me too as a musician, with friends who work in the business from Broadway to people who gig weekly. So yes, the fact they want to play and Mike loves to play is one thing, but no one is able to in any kind of normal capacity minus the buskers or people playing outdoors for 20 people eating dinner. It sucks, but Mike and the guys are not alone.

My issue, separate from the obvious health and safety issues as others addressed, is that playing this gig in Nebraska makes absolutely no sense from a purely logistical sense, not to mention the operations involved and the financial angle too.

Why, but why, would Mike take the crew to Nebraska for one gig on August 2, fly (or ride) home to the west coast, then fly to Ohio for the balloon festival on the 13th, then fly home again and wait over a month for the next gigs on the east coast, which aren't even guaranteed to happen at this point? It makes no sense! Even if the guys are chomping at the bit to play, these gigs wouldn't pay the bills for travel and logistics alone.

Beyond that, the Ohio balloon fest gig still has a "sold out" meet-and-greet listed on their website. Obviously that would have to change, I can't see running a meet and greet under these conditions and I wouldn't want to see Mike or Bruce or any of their fans have to get sick over something so inconsequential as a VIP package for fans.

So I seriously don't get it at all - Two gigs, over 10 days apart, in entirely different parts of the US and miles away from where the band is headquartered. Wanting to play gigs is one thing, but everyone is in the same boat, the entire mid-level to large-capacity entertainment and sports worlds have basically written off 2020 as a total loss, and here's Mike booked to play two random gigs in August. I hope he reconsiders, and I don't mean that with anything but concern for all involved. And yes, it sucks for the fans who want to see them or live bands in general, but there are a lot of things that suck right now which can't be postponed to 2021.
I don't see how it is financially beneficial for Mike and the band to just do these random gigs; my guess is that they will be cancelled. Sure, the guys love to entertain, but they also like to make money. I don't say that with any malice; when bands are on the road, they are always looking for shows to fill the gaps between shows. I would be the same way if i was a full time working musician.
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« Reply #906 on: July 15, 2020, 05:11:02 PM »

Thanks for the replies to my question. I'd like to clarify more where I'm coming from and my thoughts on this. Ultimately they can do whatever they want, but in the current situation it just seems nonsensical top to bottom.

Of course Mike and the band would want to play, but they're not alone obviously, and there are hundreds of thousands if not millions of musicians and crew and staff who depend on live shows for a living who cannot work due to an unprecedented outbreak. That's just stating the obvious, but nearly everyone who works in and around the live entertainment industry is basically screwed over by this in either very large or somewhat substantial ways. And that includes me too as a musician, with friends who work in the business from Broadway to people who gig weekly. So yes, the fact they want to play and Mike loves to play is one thing, but no one is able to in any kind of normal capacity minus the buskers or people playing outdoors for 20 people eating dinner. It sucks, but Mike and the guys are not alone.

My issue, separate from the obvious health and safety issues as others addressed, is that playing this gig in Nebraska makes absolutely no sense from a purely logistical sense, not to mention the operations involved and the financial angle too.

Why, but why, would Mike take the crew to Nebraska for one gig on August 2, fly (or ride) home to the west coast, then fly to Ohio for the balloon festival on the 13th, then fly home again and wait over a month for the next gigs on the east coast, which aren't even guaranteed to happen at this point? It makes no sense! Even if the guys are chomping at the bit to play, these gigs wouldn't pay the bills for travel and logistics alone.

Beyond that, the Ohio balloon fest gig still has a "sold out" meet-and-greet listed on their website. Obviously that would have to change, I can't see running a meet and greet under these conditions and I wouldn't want to see Mike or Bruce or any of their fans have to get sick over something so inconsequential as a VIP package for fans.

So I seriously don't get it at all - Two gigs, over 10 days apart, in entirely different parts of the US and miles away from where the band is headquartered. Wanting to play gigs is one thing, but everyone is in the same boat, the entire mid-level to large-capacity entertainment and sports worlds have basically written off 2020 as a total loss, and here's Mike booked to play two random gigs in August. I hope he reconsiders, and I don't mean that with anything but concern for all involved. And yes, it sucks for the fans who want to see them or live bands in general, but there are a lot of things that suck right now which can't be postponed to 2021.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I honestly would not be surprised if this was some sort of political move to kiss Trump butt. I think Mike is looking for an ego boost to get the president to publicly call him out at some sort of great heroic American, and perhaps give him some sort of award.

I mean, at this insane moment in history, the president is granting all sorts of favors to random celebrities who will kiss his butt. Like the free advertising for that idiot CEO of Goya.

It sounds crazy but not only do I think that's a scenario that could actually happen, but I think it would be a motivator for Mike. Playing a show like this has politics written all over it. Either in terms of national politics, or just trying to win over his hard-core increasingly fringe fan base and make them think he is  some sort of next level hero.

Let's face it… If Mike plays this show, pulls it off, and miraculously nobody gets sick, all sorts of conservative media outlets will go crazy with glee and call Mike a hero.  There will be some sort of benefits he will receive in terms of respect/accolades from some people. That's priceless to him. Mike has all the money he could ever need. And he's made it plainly obvious that he just wants people to respect him, so that's what I think is driving this. Just my humble opinion. That's the only "sense" that I can make of this whole situation. That type of respect/accolades would be something that Mike would seemingly be willing to bend over backwards for.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2020, 06:06:21 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #907 on: July 16, 2020, 08:36:25 AM »

I say all the following just trying to look at this situation realistically. Firstly, I was adamantly against his playing the trophy hunting gig - especially after Trump jr took a cheap shot at Brian Wilson. And yes I'm aware of how dangerous COVID-19 is - my brother had to go to urgent care due to the effects the virus had on him, and I (like many of you here) have known people who have lost loved ones due to this virus. I personally would not go to this concert due to the COVID risk, but that doesn't mean my rationale behind that decision is logical. With that said:

I don't think that Mike Love's Beach Boys playing the Pinewood Bowl theater in Lincoln, Nebraska to a less-than-half occupied venue where concert goers are forced to be seated for the entire concert is Mike Love's way of getting approval from a despised politician. More likely the entire band okay'd the decision because they are sick of being cooped up inside (just like the rest of us). Regardless of whether or not it is financially beneficially, there is more to life than money - these guys have basically lived on the road for decades, they are probably beyond excited with the possibility to play anywhere.

Quote
If Mike plays this show, pulls it off, and miraculously nobody gets sick, all sorts of conservative media outlets will go crazy with glee and call Mike a hero.  There will be some sort of benefits he will receive in terms of respect/accolades from some people. That's priceless to him.

How about if Mike plays this show, pulls it off, and miraculously nobody gets sick, it's just great that the health department found a system of guidelines and regulations that works for outdoor concerts and more entertainers will be able to put on shows (if they want) knowing they aren't putting the public at grave risk. Even if this was a political issue for Mike, if the concert has a positive outcome then it is good news for everyone who likes to be entertained by a live band (not to mention the bands, roadies, outdoor venue owners as well).

Quote
And he's made it plainly obvious that he just wants people to respect him, so that's what I think is driving this.

So Mike Love is trying to gain the respect of people by playing a concert in the middle of a pandemic with the side-intention of gleaning support from Donald Trump who currently has a disapproval rating of 60%? I think given the widespread political divisiveness in this country, Mike will only put himself in a position to be hated by more people if he is doing this to get an award from Trump.

And let's not forget that the article stated the health department worked hand-in-hand with the band to make sure there was little risk to the public. And if I had to guess I would imagine that most of the workers at that health department at one time swore the Hippocratic oath - which specifically states the importance of "prevention". I don't think the health workers would violate that oath just to make Mike Love and the touring Beach Boys happy.

When I go to concerts I use a car. When I use that car I am putting myself and others at risk to be one of the 1.3 MILLION people who die in car accidents every year. This statistic doesn't stop me from going to concerts let alone getting a $2 hamburger from McDees (which is yet another risk to my life). Why? Because regulations and laws are put in place to ensure the maximum safety possible for people on the road. Some people don't follow these laws (much like people may not wear a mask) which ends up killing people. But we take the risk (and most of us abide by the rules of the road) because we want to live our lives.

If the health department uses statistics, science, and all the knowledge at their disposal to make sure the guidelines put in place for this concert are more than adequate to protect the general public, then I (who is basing his opinion on sensationalist garbage information from CNN OR Fox News - edit to please HeyJude) am in no position to argue with those guidelines. Just my opinion.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2020, 08:50:51 AM by rab2591 » Logged

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« Reply #908 on: July 16, 2020, 08:40:48 AM »

In a way this kind of reminds me of the line from Field of Dreams, If you build it they will come.  If they have the concert and enough tickets are sold that it becomes financially viable for the promoter to not have to cancel than so be it.  Like I said previously, I find no fault in people enjoying a concert if its done with social distancing and facial coverings.  Personally I would not go to a concert that did not have any type of social distancing and facial covering rules already in place.  Ultimately I guess this all boils down to the comfort level of the patrons willing to attend and the comfort of the band members to adequately and safely put on a show.

I pointed out many posts back that yes, the politics of "re-opening" places/things is such that some are hoping that it becomes a sort of proof-of-concept situation; that if half the audience doesn't literally die within a week of the show, if they seem to carry off the show without a huge media backlash, then *more* people will feel better about also doing shows. This is of course extremely foolhardy, but some places (e.g. movie theater chains, and apparently some musical artists and venues) are so itchy to re-open that they will shirk as much of this responsibility to public health as they can.

The "Field of Dreams" analogy only works if the baseball field had been built on a toxic landfill and there was a pretty good chance many would die and/or become extremely ill by attending the games in any capacity. Oh, and it would also have to be contagious. And it could also involve asymptomatic people transmitting the condition.

I don't understand why people still do the "well hey, to each their own; if they feel comfortable having the show, then they should be able to do it" logic. That's *not* how it works at all. As I've said, the only way this line of reasoning works is if the people attending the concert are then locked in the venue for about two weeks to quarantine. Otherwise, all those people who feel *just fine* going the show could lead to a big pod of new infections, and then those people, some of which might be asymptomatic (and also symptomatic people are just actively inconsiderate) would then go out and infect innocent people who stay home but occasionally *have* to go out to buy medical supplies/food, etc.


« Last Edit: July 16, 2020, 08:50:36 AM by HeyJude » Logged

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« Reply #909 on: July 16, 2020, 08:46:19 AM »

(who is basing his opinion on sensationalist garbage information from CNN)

That folks tells you how independent and non-partisan and "just lookin' at the situation realistically" this post is.

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« Reply #910 on: July 16, 2020, 08:50:06 AM »

(who is basing his opinion on sensationalist garbage information from CNN)

That folks tells you how independent and non-partisan and "just lookin' at the situation realistically" this post is.

I say the same thing for Fox News or any other conservative outlets. It's a given fact that media outlets sensationalize the news and twist stats to boost ratings. It's a business. I get my stats and information from local and national health departments. That is about as realistic as it gets before ANY media outlets entangles their bias on the information.
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« Reply #911 on: July 16, 2020, 08:56:06 AM »

(who is basing his opinion on sensationalist garbage information from CNN)

That folks tells you how independent and non-partisan and "just lookin' at the situation realistically" this post is.

I say the same thing for Fox News or any other conservative outlets. It's a given fact that media outlets sensationalize the news and twist stats to boost ratings. It's a business. I get my stats and information from local and national health departments. That is about as realistic as it gets before ANY media outlets entangles their bias on the information.

Of course they all sensationalize things. There are pretty hard numbers about which of those channels literally is factually wrong more often (spoiler warning: it's always Fox News), but I agree they all sensationalize and they are all beyond tedious to watch.

But many just glean the stats from those outlets. CNN runs daily numbers on the side of the screen, as many news outlets do. They're not making those numbers up.

And yeah, when the current president and administration lie every day about a deadly virus/pandemic, *someone* needs to be out there in the mainstream media pointing out how wrong and incorrect it is.

And or better or worse, many if not most laid persons are not qualified to actually appropriately analyze and contextualize raw stats from local and national health departments.
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« Reply #912 on: July 16, 2020, 09:02:46 AM »


How about if Mike plays this show, pulls it off, and miraculously nobody gets sick, it's just great that the health department found a system of guidelines and regulations that works for outdoor concerts and more entertainers will be able to put on shows (if they want) knowing they aren't putting the public at grave risk


If that scenario were to happen, it would still be an instance of playing Russian roulette. If this is heralded as some sort of success, I feel sadly confident in saying that there will be some copycat acts who follow suit, and it's going to lead to more infections at some point. People are just too stupid.

Look at those numbskulls Great White. Granted, recently they were playing a show without masks and with a bunch of people plainluy ignoring guidelines.

 But the point is, even with masks there is going to be some increased danger, especially considering people will be eating and drinking. It's just going to encourage people to keep pushing the envelope more and more... and even if it's simply encouraging  more shows done with "proper" safety protocol, I still think more infections will be inevitable as a result of encouraging shows like this to happen. I don't want that to be true but I feel it is a sad truth.

We just aren't at that place yet where this is a responsible thing to do, nor is it a responsible message to be sending to the world.

With regards to Trump not being "popular", I still think Mike wants praise from him. When he saw a guy like Rush Limbaugh getting the presidential medal of honor, I have little doubt he thought that perhaps that could be attainable for him as well. If not something exactly like that, then at least some sort of shout out/praise/free promo.  Mike has long realized that he himself will never be "mainstream popular" in the way that he wants. But I don't think that stops him from wanting to get intense accolades from a subset of people/media who will gleefully heap accolades upon him. I think that drives a decision such as this on some level.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2020, 09:06:18 AM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #913 on: July 16, 2020, 09:16:32 AM »

We just aren't at that place yet where this is a responsible thing to do, nor is it a responsible message to be sending to the world.

And part of me agrees with this, which is why I personally wouldn't go to such a concert. That being said, I still stand by my statements about health departments keeping an oath to ensure public safety and I have no reason to distrust that they would do anything to jeopardize that. So while my apprehension of going to such a concert is based on my possibly flawed logic, I also realize that health officials are there to keep the public safe and they don't try to jeopardize that safety just to please some entertainers.

As for the Trump thing, if Mike saw what happened to Goya recently, I would think he would keep himself and the brand name 1 million lightyears away from anything to do with Trump. If he is trying to gain respect from people, going the Goya route isn't the way to do it. If he is just trying to keep respect with the crowd he already pleased by playing the trophy hunting gig then he will accomplish that.
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« Reply #914 on: July 16, 2020, 09:41:29 AM »

We just aren't at that place yet where this is a responsible thing to do, nor is it a responsible message to be sending to the world.

And part of me agrees with this, which is why I personally wouldn't go to such a concert. That being said, I still stand by my statements about health departments keeping an oath to ensure public safety and I have no reason to distrust that they would do anything to jeopardize that. So while my apprehension of going to such a concert is based on my possibly flawed logic, I also realize that health officials are there to keep the public safe and they don't try to jeopardize that safety just to please some entertainers.

As for the Trump thing, if Mike saw what happened to Goya recently, I would think he would keep himself and the brand name 1 million lightyears away from anything to do with Trump. If he is trying to gain respect from people, going the Goya route isn't the way to do it. If he is just trying to keep respect with the crowd he already pleased by playing the trophy hunting gig then he will accomplish that.

Whereas that Goya CEO fool has more of an outwardly unapologetic Trump support vibe, I think Mike is taking a bit more of the softball, slightly indirect approach to his butt kissing - which could still earn him accolades in *some* fashion.  In no way do I feel Mike is oblivious to the fact that by making himself a hero out of what has now ridiculously become a politicized situation, he could get accolades or praise from the president. Especially because on top of that, he has been supportive and friendly with Trump for decades. And maybe Trump sees him as the underdog.

Or praise from right wing media outlets, which are pretty much the only media outlets that give Mike the time of day anyway.

I think getting something in return is definitely on his radar. Maybe even a show offer to play the White House lawn if heaven forbid Trump is reelected.  Just my humble opinion.

Opportunities to get effusive praise, especially from high places, do not go over Mike's head. Even if it's more of an unconscious thing. I don't think Mike is seeking to become a conservative hero, nor do I think he really cares about becoming some sort of political figure. But praise is praise to him. Getting a pat on the head from the president of United States I think is a carrot that he sees dangling in the distance. Again, I think the trophy hunting show was part of that.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2020, 11:34:19 AM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #915 on: July 16, 2020, 10:11:50 AM »

Thanks for the replies to my question. I'd like to clarify more where I'm coming from and my thoughts on this. Ultimately they can do whatever they want, but in the current situation it just seems nonsensical top to bottom.

Of course Mike and the band would want to play, but they're not alone obviously, and there are hundreds of thousands if not millions of musicians and crew and staff who depend on live shows for a living who cannot work due to an unprecedented outbreak. That's just stating the obvious, but nearly everyone who works in and around the live entertainment industry is basically screwed over by this in either very large or somewhat substantial ways. And that includes me too as a musician, with friends who work in the business from Broadway to people who gig weekly. So yes, the fact they want to play and Mike loves to play is one thing, but no one is able to in any kind of normal capacity minus the buskers or people playing outdoors for 20 people eating dinner. It sucks, but Mike and the guys are not alone.

My issue, separate from the obvious health and safety issues as others addressed, is that playing this gig in Nebraska makes absolutely no sense from a purely logistical sense, not to mention the operations involved and the financial angle too.

Why, but why, would Mike take the crew to Nebraska for one gig on August 2, fly (or ride) home to the west coast, then fly to Ohio for the balloon festival on the 13th, then fly home again and wait over a month for the next gigs on the east coast, which aren't even guaranteed to happen at this point? It makes no sense! Even if the guys are chomping at the bit to play, these gigs wouldn't pay the bills for travel and logistics alone.

Beyond that, the Ohio balloon fest gig still has a "sold out" meet-and-greet listed on their website. Obviously that would have to change, I can't see running a meet and greet under these conditions and I wouldn't want to see Mike or Bruce or any of their fans have to get sick over something so inconsequential as a VIP package for fans.

So I seriously don't get it at all - Two gigs, over 10 days apart, in entirely different parts of the US and miles away from where the band is headquartered. Wanting to play gigs is one thing, but everyone is in the same boat, the entire mid-level to large-capacity entertainment and sports worlds have basically written off 2020 as a total loss, and here's Mike booked to play two random gigs in August. I hope he reconsiders, and I don't mean that with anything but concern for all involved. And yes, it sucks for the fans who want to see them or live bands in general, but there are a lot of things that suck right now which can't be postponed to 2021.

I can tell you for a fact that I have seen the band have a 4 of 5 day break in their summer touring schedule and they have all gone home for those 4 or 5 days.  I would imagine if these gigs both do go on as scheduled they would most likely fly in the day before if not the day of the Nebraska event and stay overnight the night of the event and then return home and or drive in for the Ohio event.  One thing to keep in mind is that it would depend on how the contracts are drawn up if the promoter or meleco is responsible for the travel costs associated with show.  I honestly have no clue how that is worked out.  But I would be willing to bet dollars to donuts if both events go on as scheduled band and crew go home between events. 

As far as why a show in Nebraska?  I have not earthly idea why it is going on as scheduled.  Purely off of my own speculation Mike must feel like the venue has measures in place to keep it safe and I would imagine that comparatively speaking the numbers aren't quite as bad as a lot of the other states.  I know a lot of that has to do with population density and contributing factors, but apparently the promoter and the band, and at this point the state government feel like its safe to go to a concert in Nebraska. 
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« Reply #916 on: July 16, 2020, 11:20:49 AM »

I can't wait for the "all things must pass" live debut.... Roll Eyes
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« Reply #917 on: July 16, 2020, 01:19:51 PM »

While the main focus with these things should be on the audience, it's also worth nothing that this not good for band members or crew members either. I have little doubt that they'll check temps, probably literally have all the members take COVID tests (and if they don't do those things, then that's obviously even worse). But many have noted that it's literally the spittle coming out of one's mouth that causes of a lot of the transmission, and *singing* causes *more* of that than simply talking.

Beyond the questionable nature of whether all band and crew members can stay six feet apart at all times, even if we assume that is the case, we have many members of the band that would, I presume, be singing *without* masks on.

It's difficult to not assume we're all doomed. I've been watching various news crews around the country questioning people walking down the street with no mask, and we now have a ton of people who are literally turning into this old meme:

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« Reply #918 on: July 16, 2020, 01:34:54 PM »

Sure seems that way jude, "all things must pass" is an ironic song to be sang to a sickly covid-19 infected audience...
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« Reply #919 on: July 16, 2020, 06:59:18 PM »

I wonder if some of these shows lingering on the books of the Beach Boys touring act and other artists has something to do with the insurance for each gig or a policy of the venue? For example, you can't cancel and collect insurance until you get a certain window of time?
I'm just spitballing here, folks.
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« Reply #920 on: July 16, 2020, 08:57:06 PM »

I wonder if some of these shows lingering on the books of the Beach Boys touring act and other artists has something to do with the insurance for each gig or a policy of the venue? For example, you can't cancel and collect insurance until you get a certain window of time?
I'm just spitballing here, folks.

Spitballing or not, your hypothesis seems more plausible to me than the wild-eyed theory that Mike is trying to stage dangerous, life-threatening gigs -- making himself a sort of the Evel Knievel of the oldies music circuit -- as part of an elaborate scheme to impress Donald Trump.  I mean, come on, people.  I've been as much of a non-fan of some of ML's antics over the decades as the rest of you, but let's not spin nonsense.
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« Reply #921 on: July 17, 2020, 08:27:19 AM »

I wonder if some of these shows lingering on the books of the Beach Boys touring act and other artists has something to do with the insurance for each gig or a policy of the venue? For example, you can't cancel and collect insurance until you get a certain window of time?
I'm just spitballing here, folks.

Spitballing or not, your hypothesis seems more plausible to me than the wild-eyed theory that Mike is trying to stage dangerous, life-threatening gigs -- making himself a sort of the Evel Knievel of the oldies music circuit -- as part of an elaborate scheme to impress Donald Trump.  I mean, come on, people.  I've been as much of a non-fan of some of ML's antics over the decades as the rest of you, but let's not spin nonsense.

The Nebraska gig at least is not a case of an old show lingering on the schedule simply because it hasn't been officially canceled yet. The venue has specifically confirmed that the show *will* go on, and detailed both in a Facebook post as well as via the article linked below that they have made a specific effort to put on the show:

https://journalstar.com/entertainment/music/beach-boys-to-play-pinewood-bowl-in-august-in-lincolns-first-big-concert-in-months/article_72c66745-9e6e-541b-b1ab-30b48aef024a.html

Note in the article the following:

“We’re very excited that after a good deal of work with the Health Department and Beach Boys management, we’re able to host this at Pinewood,” said Tom Lorenz, general manager of ASM-Lincoln. “It’s unique in this environment to see high-quality live events.”

So yes, for those that feel doing gigs at this point in time is life threatening, then this article seems to indicate that the venue and the "Beach Boys management" are trying to stage a potentially dangerous, life-threatening gig.
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« Reply #922 on: July 17, 2020, 08:31:21 AM »

I wonder if some of these shows lingering on the books of the Beach Boys touring act and other artists has something to do with the insurance for each gig or a policy of the venue? For example, you can't cancel and collect insurance until you get a certain window of time?
I'm just spitballing here, folks.

That's one theory. But I think in a lot of cases, because the situation is always evolving, they hold off on canceling/rescheduling until they know for sure that there's no chance the show can take place. Similar to how, say, the movie studios have not just said "screw it, 2020 is canceled and we'll reschedule everything for 2021", and instead keep rescheduling movies for July, then August, then September, etc.

It looks like there aren't too many shows left on the Mike schedule for this year. While they book shows sometimes a year or two in advance, I would guess perhaps by March of this year, they hadn't finalized some of the shows that would take place at the very end of the year, so right now they don't have as many shows to cancel or reschedule as they would have had with a full year fully scheduled and already on sale.
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« Reply #923 on: July 17, 2020, 09:12:58 AM »

I wonder if some of these shows lingering on the books of the Beach Boys touring act and other artists has something to do with the insurance for each gig or a policy of the venue? For example, you can't cancel and collect insurance until you get a certain window of time?
I'm just spitballing here, folks.

Spitballing or not, your hypothesis seems more plausible to me than the wild-eyed theory that Mike is trying to stage dangerous, life-threatening gigs -- making himself a sort of the Evel Knievel of the oldies music circuit -- as part of an elaborate scheme to impress Donald Trump.  I mean, come on, people.  I've been as much of a non-fan of some of ML's antics over the decades as the rest of you, but let's not spin nonsense.


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« Reply #924 on: July 17, 2020, 09:14:51 AM »

So yes, for those that feel doing gigs at this point in time is life threatening, then this article seems to indicate that the venue and the "Beach Boys management" are trying to stage a potentially dangerous, life-threatening gig.

AND the health department. The articled doesn't just state "Beach Boys management" and the venue. If the Health Department didn't say this gig was safe then Beach Boys management and the venue wouldn't have a gig to stage.

You all are basically saying that EVERY member of Mike's band is cool with the potential for people to die due to their concert because they care more about a gold star from Trump or money than they do human life. Just like the people who think someone as awesome as Nicky Wonder was complicit in forcing Brian to tour for the sake of money, this theory that Mike's band is cool with people dying just so they can make a little money (or get a smile and wink from Trump) is ridiculously offensive to every member of that band. As I've said before, there is risk for death everywhere (there is risk for people to die from the flu by contracting it from someone at this gig). Anytime I go to a concert I put myself and others at risk of dying in a car wreck. That's just life. However the health department thinks that the guidelines and regulations put in place at this venue keep the risk of contracting this virus low enough to deem the gig safe (or else they wouldn't have approved the gig as it would've violated their oath to public safety).

Regardless, the Health Department is just as responsible for this gig (if not more so - because they have science, knowledge, and expertise on their side) as the venue and band management.
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