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Author Topic: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread  (Read 247722 times)
HeyJude
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« Reply #300 on: January 29, 2018, 10:59:26 AM »

Another thing to consider is that Brian's band has done pretty well touring with Pet Sounds on the marque and ticket stubs, so much so that more Pet Sounds shows were scheduled for 2018.  

Although, it's good to see at least one show so far doesn't have that banner.  

Brian is undoubtedly getting more total bookings based on the shows being PS shows. I don't think it's vastly impacting per-ticket prices.

But again, Mike was and is free to do the same type of tour himself.

I'll respectfully disagree.   At least in my market, Brian's ticket prices spiked for the Pet Sounds Tour.   Again, like I said, I don't think Brian's wrong by doing this, many artists do.   I'm sure Chicago tickets in 2018 will be a little pricier since they just announced they're playing Chicago II front to back.  

While I don't see any issue with the possibility that the average PS tour ticket is more expensive than a non-PS Brian show, unless you can provide some overall stats rather than your one personal ticket buying experience, I'm not prepared to say Brian is, on an average per-ticket basis, charging significantly more for the PS shows than for others. Indeed, I provided you a list of a bunch of shows I attended, including many in back-to-back years or even within the same year, which showed his non-PS shows are the same price and in some cases were MORE expensive than his PS shows. And the SF Bay Area market is (unfortunately for me) among the most expensive markets in the country, if not the world.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2018, 11:00:51 AM by HeyJude » Logged

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« Reply #301 on: January 29, 2018, 11:00:29 AM »

There's unquestionably a series of drawbacks (on the fan side of things) when touring acts get super-huge. Look at many of the top grossers. It's a lot of bloated, binoculars-required stadium shows and arena shows.

Two of the highest per-ticket price averages? Vegas residencies from Britney Spears and Celine Dion, where the shows are shorter.

Ironically, I agree with Howie Edelson that a 2013 (or 2014) Vegas residency would have been perfect for keeping the reunion together. It would have streamlined the whole process, kept TONS of money rolling in, and would have largely eliminated any warring managerial factions.

I do agree a Vegas deal would've been perfect for C50.  

I think that's also something worth exploring for Brian at some point.   He does seem to enjoy playing still (with the possible exception of Pet Sounds), and that would take all of the strain from touring, especially with his back problems.  
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« Reply #302 on: January 29, 2018, 11:02:12 AM »

I'm not certain there would be nearly as much interest in a Brian Wilson residency as compared to a full Beach Boys reunion. Meaning, full year if not multi-year deals as opposed to week-long-ish residencies. But you never know.
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« Reply #303 on: January 29, 2018, 11:32:27 AM »

I think the idea here is to see if there any takeaways from it beyond the statistic itself. "Ha ha! Brian sold more than Mike!" isn't a worthwhile takeaway.

But "geez, maybe Mike's overtouring and the higher end concert goer having more respect for Brian's show than Mike's" is something more along the lines of worthwhile takeaways.

Another takeaway is that Brian (and Al) should be commended (to the degree going out and touring warrants such) for breaking out post-C50 *without* the band name behind them and outgrossing the licensed tour. It ain't easy, even for *Brian Wilson*, to break away from a huge trademark like "The Beach Boys" and perform so well.
Nice thoughts! I agree. Smiley
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Debbie KL
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« Reply #304 on: January 29, 2018, 11:42:17 AM »

Another thing to consider is that Brian's band has done pretty well touring with Pet Sounds on the marque and ticket stubs, so much so that more Pet Sounds shows were scheduled for 2018.  

Although, it's good to see at least one show so far doesn't have that banner.  

Brian is undoubtedly getting more total bookings based on the shows being PS shows. I don't think it's vastly impacting per-ticket prices.

But again, Mike was and is free to do the same type of tour himself.

I'll respectfully disagree.   At least in my market, Brian's ticket prices spiked for the Pet Sounds Tour.   Again, like I said, I don't think Brian's wrong by doing this, many artists do.   I'm sure Chicago tickets in 2018 will be a little pricier since they just announced they're playing Chicago II front to back.  

While I don't see any issue with the possibility that the average PS tour ticket is more expensive than a non-PS Brian show, unless you can provide some overall stats rather than your one personal ticket buying experience, I'm not prepared to say Brian is, on an average per-ticket basis, charging significantly more for the PS shows than for others. Indeed, I provided you a list of a bunch of shows I attended, including many in back-to-back years or even within the same year, which showed his non-PS shows are the same price and in some cases were MORE expensive than his PS shows. And the SF Bay Area market is (unfortunately for me) among the most expensive markets in the country, if not the world.

The only price variations I've noticed are with regard to certain more expensive venues being more, particularly if there's an orchestra involved.
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« Reply #305 on: January 29, 2018, 12:33:59 PM »

wrong thread
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« Reply #306 on: January 29, 2018, 01:40:20 PM »


I think that's also something worth exploring for Brian at some point.   He does seem to enjoy playing still (with the possible exception of Pet Sounds), and that would take all of the strain from touring, especially with his back problems.  

KDS, why do you and others keep bringing up health issues with Brian? "Oh, poor Brian, he needs to give it a rest with his bad back..." etc etc etc.

The guy has toured the world and played a full schedule of dates, and unless I missed something Brian did not cancel or miss a single show due to health issues, back or otherwise.

Bruce missed shows due to health issues, maybe you guys could start posting for Mike to cut back on the touring so Bruce can stay healthy? Or to give Mike's voice a rest? Or doesn't it work like that?

Seriously, though...if Brian was too ill to tour or simply didn't want to, he would not be doing it. I don't know how much more on that topic can be repeated to counter all of these "oh poor, dear Brian, it's such a strain for him!" type of histrionics.

If he was cancelling shows because of health ailments, it would be another story. He hasn't.
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« Reply #307 on: January 29, 2018, 01:50:35 PM »

Unlikely to find anywhere but it would be interesting to compare BW, M&B and C50 net numbers. Just looking at Brianís thank you dinner picture from London in 2012 gives you some idea of the large touring party involved, and that did not include Mike and Bruce. It is no secret that the M&B touring party is lean and mean in keeping the costs down. Also Mike pays BRI (from memory 17%). Does Brian have to pay Mike (via BRI) for using songs he co-wrote? Another unknown for me is does those numbers include a fair? If Mike does a free event for say 1200 yet there is no charge to the individual, does that skew the numbers?

Taking the numbers mentioned, C50 $15m and M&B $6m then comparing overheads, I can see why Mike prefers to go solo.
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« Reply #308 on: January 29, 2018, 01:54:59 PM »


Brian made it on to the highest grossing tours of 2017 list, 8.5 million for the North American tour.

That's the 2017 NA tour alone

Funny, the Beach Boys grossed less with 6.9


I can't be the only person that finds this pretty interesting. Here's the full NA list from Pollstar in case anybody is interested:

https://www.pollstar.com/Chart/2018/01/2017YearEndTop200NorthAmericanTours_622.pdf

Guess what else is interesting? While Brian grossed $8.5 million off of approx. 60 North American shows, and Mike grossed $6.9 million off of approx. 91 North American shows tracked by Pollstar, guess how the C50 tour did in 2012?

$15 million gross off of only 50 North American dates dates.


Gosh, all that money coming in and Brain Wilson's North American tours as well as the 2012 C50 North American tour were supposedly money losers?

Interesting to see that only three other performers on the Top 200 list had a lower average 2017 gross than The Beach Boys. For sure, overexposure is a big factor there.

« Last Edit: January 30, 2018, 06:47:37 PM by Custom Machine » Logged
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« Reply #309 on: January 29, 2018, 02:11:46 PM »


Unlikely to find anywhere but it would be interesting to compare BW, M&B and C50 net numbers. Just looking at Brianís thank you dinner picture from London in 2012 gives you some idea of the large touring party involved, and that did not include Mike and Bruce. It is no secret that the M&B touring party is lean and mean in keeping the costs down. Also Mike pays BRI (from memory 17%). Does Brian have to pay Mike (via BRI) for using songs he co-wrote? Another unknown for me is does those numbers include a fair? If Mike does a free event for say 1200 yet there is no charge to the individual, does that skew the numbers?

Taking the numbers mentioned, C50 $15m and M&B $6m then comparing overheads, I can see why Mike prefers to go solo.
 

Good question about a fair where admission to see The Beach Boys is included, although Brian has played such shows as well, but far fewer. Having seen both the BBs and BW at the San Diego County Fair, while admission was potentially free, I paid for better seats. Regardless of how an average ticket price might be calculated under a county or state fair scenario, the performers involved would still receive gross revenue from their appearance which they and the promoters would factor into the decision to perform.

Yes, BW's touring expenses are significantly higher than Mike's, and the net figures would tell the definitive story, but looking at the numbers I find it hard to believe, as has been stated in the past, that Brian's tours lose money overall, and even harder to believe that the North American C50 tour, with an average gross of $300,000 per show, was a money loser, especially considering that promoters were asking for more shows.

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« Reply #310 on: January 29, 2018, 02:33:36 PM »


I think that's also something worth exploring for Brian at some point.   He does seem to enjoy playing still (with the possible exception of Pet Sounds), and that would take all of the strain from touring, especially with his back problems.  

KDS, why do you and others keep bringing up health issues with Brian? "Oh, poor Brian, he needs to give it a rest with his bad back..." etc etc etc.

The guy has toured the world and played a full schedule of dates, and unless I missed something Brian did not cancel or miss a single show due to health issues, back or otherwise.

Bruce missed shows due to health issues, maybe you guys could start posting for Mike to cut back on the touring so Bruce can stay healthy? Or to give Mike's voice a rest? Or doesn't it work like that?

Seriously, though...if Brian was too ill to tour or simply didn't want to, he would not be doing it. I don't know how much more on that topic can be repeated to counter all of these "oh poor, dear Brian, it's such a strain for him!" type of histrionics.

If he was cancelling shows because of health ailments, it would be another story. He hasn't.

He looks lethargic and uninvolved onstage. As he walks offstage, usually a roadie or two will walk out and take his arm as he walks. His voice has degraded noticeably over the past 3 years. He's well into his 70s and very overweight. Mike and Bruce are, in comparison, very spry and in good shape. The concerns about Brian's health are not unfounded.
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« Reply #311 on: January 29, 2018, 02:45:46 PM »

The other day I threw together a couple of graphs that look at how each touring group fared since C50.  Unless I missed it, neither group was listed for 2013.  It's also worth noting that The Beach Boys grossed $17,000,000 worldwide in 2015, enough to crack the top 100.  


« Last Edit: January 29, 2018, 02:47:47 PM by The Cincinnati Kid » Logged
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« Reply #312 on: January 29, 2018, 02:56:34 PM »

M&B's voices would be dust without the processing they use on stage and their health isn't what it seems. Bruce had a health scare last year and Mike is kinda chunky with a broken voice from overtouring.
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« Reply #313 on: January 29, 2018, 03:21:16 PM »

M&B's voices would be dust without the processing they use on stage and their health isn't what it seems. Bruce had a health scare last year and Mike is kinda chunky with a broken voice from overtouring.
With the fake BB's touring schedule burning out their voices awhile back, I've also noticed in videos that their resident clown, myKe luHv, moves very little on stage and when does so, moves at a slug's pace that appears that probably arthritis has set in. I know Brian exercises but I don't know about luHv. I don't remember ever seeing anything about him involved in a fitness program.
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« Reply #314 on: January 29, 2018, 04:27:00 PM »


I think that's also something worth exploring for Brian at some point.   He does seem to enjoy playing still (with the possible exception of Pet Sounds), and that would take all of the strain from touring, especially with his back problems.  

KDS, why do you and others keep bringing up health issues with Brian? "Oh, poor Brian, he needs to give it a rest with his bad back..." etc etc etc.

The guy has toured the world and played a full schedule of dates, and unless I missed something Brian did not cancel or miss a single show due to health issues, back or otherwise.

Bruce missed shows due to health issues, maybe you guys could start posting for Mike to cut back on the touring so Bruce can stay healthy? Or to give Mike's voice a rest? Or doesn't it work like that?

Seriously, though...if Brian was too ill to tour or simply didn't want to, he would not be doing it. I don't know how much more on that topic can be repeated to counter all of these "oh poor, dear Brian, it's such a strain for him!" type of histrionics.

If he was cancelling shows because of health ailments, it would be another story. He hasn't.

He looks lethargic and uninvolved onstage. As he walks offstage, usually a roadie or two will walk out and take his arm as he walks. His voice has degraded noticeably over the past 3 years. He's well into his 70s and very overweight. Mike and Bruce are, in comparison, very spry and in good shape. The concerns about Brian's health are not unfounded.

Has he canceled any shows due to health issues? No.

People have been knocking Brian's stage presence that same way as you have since he first started playing shows almost 20 years ago, I guess if it were that much of a drawback he wouldn't have outsold Mike last year and people would stop going if that were an issue.

Go see Mike and Bruce acting spry and in good shape on stage so you don't have to worry about Brian's health, and he'll tour as he chooses.

As far as vocals, have you heard Mike singing live in the past several years? He couldn't get enough breath to sustain notes without straining on his own studio album (if you've heard it), and any number of performance clips from his shows on YouTube show this too rather consistently on songs he's done for decades, but that's topic for another discussion I guess.

Like I said, if Brian's health on the road is such a concern, go see Mike and Bruce when they come around and you won't have to worry about it.
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« Reply #315 on: January 29, 2018, 04:27:18 PM »

M&B's voices would be dust without the processing they use on stage and their health isn't what it seems. Bruce had a health scare last year and Mike is kinda chunky with a broken voice from overtouring.
With the fake BB's touring schedule burning out their voices awhile back, I've also noticed in videos that their resident clown, myKe luHv, moves very little on stage and when does so, moves at a slug's pace that appears that probably arthritis has set in. I know Brian exercises but I don't know about luHv. I don't remember ever seeing anything about him involved in a fitness program.
Hence why he uses this sh*t on stage....
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hJIlUgqAiNY
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« Reply #316 on: January 29, 2018, 04:36:50 PM »

M&B's voices would be dust without the processing they use on stage and their health isn't what it seems. Bruce had a health scare last year and Mike is kinda chunky with a broken voice from overtouring.
With the fake BB's touring schedule burning out their voices awhile back, I've also noticed in videos that their resident clown, myKe luHv, moves very little on stage and when does so, moves at a slug's pace that appears that probably arthritis has set in. I know Brian exercises but I don't know about luHv. I don't remember ever seeing anything about him involved in a fitness program.
Hence why he uses this sh*t on stage....
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hJIlUgqAiNY

And schtick like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhTDwX3pH8M

As of late August 2017 he still hadn't abandoned the idea of bringing cheerleaders on stage.
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« Reply #317 on: January 29, 2018, 04:38:25 PM »

Spry.  Grin
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« Reply #318 on: January 29, 2018, 04:44:27 PM »

Its all about the music.... Roll Eyes
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« Reply #319 on: January 29, 2018, 04:50:21 PM »

Its all about the music.... Roll Eyes

Ahh, that old chestnut.

Whatever Brian has been doing, it's been working. And selling more than Mike's show apparently, if you look at those numbers.
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« Reply #320 on: January 29, 2018, 04:57:12 PM »

Even with Mike's C50 ripoff video board and tributes....
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« Reply #321 on: January 29, 2018, 05:03:42 PM »

You're completely misrepresenting my point. Yeah, Brian's not a ball of fire onstage, but he certainly didn't look like he was ready to fall asleep in 2015. But in 2017, after the amount of shows he performed? That schedule would be tiring for a guy 30 years younger. And dude, don't get me wrong here, I'm not here to defend Mike Love. I'm as much a shameless Brianista as anyone. I happily went to his Radio City concert last September and it was a great experience. That being said, Brian seemed exhausted. My argument is made out of genuine concern. I'm just a guy on the Internet who loves the Beach Boys. I'm not here to tear down Brian Wilson and I certainly don't have an agenda.

As for Bruce, health scares are not unexpected with performers of their age. Elton John, Billy Joel, and Paul McCartney all have cancelled shows with major illnesses over the past few years. I don't think it's fair to use that against them.
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« Reply #322 on: January 29, 2018, 05:14:40 PM »

I do know Brian has had back issues. Other than that as far as I know everything is fine.

That said back issues *suck*. Wouldnít wish it on my worst enemy
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« Reply #323 on: January 29, 2018, 06:45:37 PM »


I think that's also something worth exploring for Brian at some point.   He does seem to enjoy playing still (with the possible exception of Pet Sounds), and that would take all of the strain from touring, especially with his back problems.  

KDS, why do you and others keep bringing up health issues with Brian? "Oh, poor Brian, he needs to give it a rest with his bad back..." etc etc etc.

The guy has toured the world and played a full schedule of dates, and unless I missed something Brian did not cancel or miss a single show due to health issues, back or otherwise.

Bruce missed shows due to health issues, maybe you guys could start posting for Mike to cut back on the touring so Bruce can stay healthy? Or to give Mike's voice a rest? Or doesn't it work like that?

Seriously, though...if Brian was too ill to tour or simply didn't want to, he would not be doing it. I don't know how much more on that topic can be repeated to counter all of these "oh poor, dear Brian, it's such a strain for him!" type of histrionics.

If he was cancelling shows because of health ailments, it would be another story. He hasn't.

He looks lethargic and uninvolved onstage. As he walks offstage, usually a roadie or two will walk out and take his arm as he walks. His voice has degraded noticeably over the past 3 years. He's well into his 70s and very overweight. Mike and Bruce are, in comparison, very spry and in good shape. The concerns about Brian's health are not unfounded.

You beat me to it. 
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« Reply #324 on: January 29, 2018, 07:06:23 PM »

I don't think it's any of our business how any of their health is. That being said, Brian's physical appearance really hasn't decreased since 2012. That's not exactly a compliment either though.

Mike on the other hand, seems a little slower, a little gruffer, and a little more tired looking every year. AS for Bruce, I don't know what he went through in the fall but it aged him big time. He looks MUCH older since taking that time off.

Alan and David haven't visually aged in a decade at least, and in fact, David is one of those rare cool old dudes that looks better and better with age.
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