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Author Topic: Politics: 2016 Lame Duck and 2017 New Administration  (Read 161393 times)
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the captain
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« Reply #400 on: January 25, 2017, 04:17:58 PM »

Ah, gotcha. I'm not going to go through each item you've written that about, but I'll take your word for it because you're a fine chap. Not like the leather assless kind. Like a person.

By the way, I meant to comment on your note about 1984 being popular lately. So, too, is It Can't Happen Here, by the great-state-born Sinclair Lewis. I read it recently, for the first time. And wow. Prescient. Some of candidate Berzelius Windrip's platform and rhetoric are awfully familiar.
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« Reply #401 on: January 25, 2017, 05:15:28 PM »

I was rather enjoying a succinct list of the outrages and potential outrages of the day. I don't really have time to keep up on weekdays.
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« Reply #402 on: January 25, 2017, 11:18:37 PM »

One last update for today:

Trump Hotels will triple their US properties despite Donald's promise to not make any new deals while still in office.

Donald has finally made clear his suspicion of voter fraud! Pro golfer Bernhard Langer was in line to vote in Florida when he also witnessed Latino people in line to vote. When Donald finished relaying this story to his audience (and, yes, that's the whole story), he was met with silence. His Chief of Staff urged him to move on.

In actuality, Langer was the one committing voter fraud, as he was turned away for being a German citizen.

I'll see you all again in a dozen hours.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 11:20:51 PM by Bubs » Logged
the captain
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« Reply #403 on: January 26, 2017, 10:07:59 AM »

Interesting possibility for blocking that stupid fucking wall.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/25/opinion/how-antonin-scalias-ghost-could-block-donald-trumps-wall.html?hpw&rref=opinion&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=well-region&region=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well
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« Reply #404 on: January 26, 2017, 02:23:22 PM »

Why do Trump/his supporters think a) it's ok to ask/force/expect Mexico to pay for a wall that the US builds and b) Mexico will pay for it?
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the captain
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« Reply #405 on: January 26, 2017, 02:37:33 PM »

Why do Trump/his supporters think a) it's ok to ask/force/expect Mexico to pay for a wall that the US builds and b) Mexico will pay for it?

Good question, but maybe irrelevant, since the most recent plan floated is a 20% import tax on Mexican goods to "get Mexico to pay for it." Except, as probably anyone with any common sense could quickly figure out, any such costs on charged to the selling companies will obviously be tacked on to the products being sold, thus just passing along the cost to American consumers. Victory is, um, ours? That costlier avocado or t-shirt built a wall. Huzzah.

Spicer apparently later suggested such a tax would actually be on all imports, regardless of their country of origin. (What will we build with our Chinese import tax revenues? The mind spins.)

Plenty on the left would subscribe to this kind of thing as a way to raise costs of foreign-produced merchandise to help put American-made products (and theoretically, workers) on better footing. Let's just see how people feel when they realize that while some people might get higher wages out of it,* all people will pay more for goods.


*I doubt much of the wealth would be passed along to the workers. I would imagine any increases in profit on American-made goods would just be considered fair trade-off for said companies having stopped doing as much work overseas and importing it here. Or, even if they never had overseas production, simply making higher profits. Let's keep in mind that despite all the complaining about the dire economy, crippling regulation, etc, we've seen record profits in numerous industries in recent years. The economic issue isn't with industry, it's with labor, as in, profits aren't shared.
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« Reply #406 on: January 26, 2017, 04:41:49 PM »

Why do Trump/his supporters think a) it's ok to ask/force/expect Mexico to pay for a wall that the US builds and b) Mexico will pay for it?

Good question, but maybe irrelevant, since the most recent plan floated is a 20% import tax on Mexican goods to "get Mexico to pay for it." Except, as probably anyone with any common sense could quickly figure out, any such costs on charged to the selling companies will obviously be tacked on to the products being sold, thus just passing along the cost to American consumers. Victory is, um, ours? That costlier avocado or t-shirt built a wall. Huzzah.

Spicer apparently later suggested such a tax would actually be on all imports, regardless of their country of origin. (What will we build with our Chinese import tax revenues? The mind spins.)

Plenty on the left would subscribe to this kind of thing as a way to raise costs of foreign-produced merchandise to help put American-made products (and theoretically, workers) on better footing. Let's just see how people feel when they realize that while some people might get higher wages out of it,* all people will pay more for goods.


*I doubt much of the wealth would be passed along to the workers. I would imagine any increases in profit on American-made goods would just be considered fair trade-off for said companies having stopped doing as much work overseas and importing it here. Or, even if they never had overseas production, simply making higher profits. Let's keep in mind that despite all the complaining about the dire economy, crippling regulation, etc, we've seen record profits in numerous industries in recent years. The economic issue isn't with industry, it's with labor, as in, profits aren't shared.

Damn right. Kind of like when people argued that the Iraq invasion couldn't have been about the oil since gas prices hadn't gone down, as if the purpose of gaining access to oil reserves is to lower consumer costs.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #407 on: January 26, 2017, 05:07:45 PM »

Kind of a slow day for our dear demagogue:

The entire State Department's senior management team has been removed from office without any replacements.

Donald's Chief strategist thinks the media should shut their mouths; apparently wishes to silence negative press.

The president of Mexico has scrapped his plans to visit the US. Donald plans to impose 20% tax on Mexican imports to pay for wall. Paul Ryan says Americans will pay for wall. Although the White House is now stepping back from that plan, they are still working on a plan to make you pay for it.

Donald continues to receive mysterious payments from foreign nations.

Here's a fun one: Donald plans to release a weekly list of crimes committed by immigrants. Whether they're illegal or not doesn't seem to matter and is not specified. And (come on, you saw this coming) Adolf Hitler did the same with his weekly report, The Criminal Jew.

Donald claims zero illegal votes were cast in his name.

Despite Kellyanne's claims that American's don't care, a White House petition to release the T-man's tax returns breaks the record for most signed.

On numerous occasions, Donald has claimed violent crimes have been increasing when they've actually been decreasing.

Scientists have begun to fight back against Donald and are creating their own, unofficial Twitter accounts to continue to communicate with the American public. One of the more high profile accounts is Rogue NASA. Two of the House's democrats believe the gag orders placed on federal employees violate federal laws.

Polls show that most of Donald's supporters believe his lies despite ample evidence to the contrary. His supporters believe he should be allowed to have his own private email server.

Donald is really upset that he's not popular now despite being president.
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« Reply #408 on: January 26, 2017, 05:11:36 PM »

Try this one out. How many can you spot from the past 5 days? I think I got 9.

The 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 05:12:51 PM by Bubs » Logged
Emily
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« Reply #409 on: January 26, 2017, 08:17:21 PM »

Why do Trump/his supporters think a) it's ok to ask/force/expect Mexico to pay for a wall that the US builds and b) Mexico will pay for it?

Good question, but maybe irrelevant, since the most recent plan floated is a 20% import tax on Mexican goods to "get Mexico to pay for it." Except, as probably anyone with any common sense could quickly figure out, any such costs on charged to the selling companies will obviously be tacked on to the products being sold, thus just passing along the cost to American consumers. Victory is, um, ours? That costlier avocado or t-shirt built a wall. Huzzah.

Spicer apparently later suggested such a tax would actually be on all imports, regardless of their country of origin. (What will we build with our Chinese import tax revenues? The mind spins.)

Plenty on the left would subscribe to this kind of thing as a way to raise costs of foreign-produced merchandise to help put American-made products (and theoretically, workers) on better footing. Let's just see how people feel when they realize that while some people might get higher wages out of it,* all people will pay more for goods.


*I doubt much of the wealth would be passed along to the workers. I would imagine any increases in profit on American-made goods would just be considered fair trade-off for said companies having stopped doing as much work overseas and importing it here. Or, even if they never had overseas production, simply making higher profits. Let's keep in mind that despite all the complaining about the dire economy, crippling regulation, etc, we've seen record profits in numerous industries in recent years. The economic issue isn't with industry, it's with labor, as in, profits aren't shared.

Left free trader here - open borders for people and goods. Never understood the left being against this.
No - it won't be passed on to workers, either in time or money.

And thanks for the updates, Bubs. You're good at that.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 08:20:44 PM by Emily » Logged
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« Reply #410 on: January 26, 2017, 10:30:21 PM »

And thanks for the updates, Bubs. You're good at that.

I do it for selfish reasons! Helps me feel not quite so powerless.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 02:29:18 AM by Bubs » Logged
Emily
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« Reply #411 on: January 27, 2017, 08:19:16 AM »

Try this one out. How many can you spot from the past 5 days? I think I got 9.
Based on statements of intent or attitude rather than action so far,  Trump and the overall current Republican regime:
The 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.   Trump: 10 regime: 2 Actual action - yes

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
Trump: 10 regime: 4 actual action not yet, based on the common understanding of human rights in the US

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
Trump: 10 regime: 6 actual action YES

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
Trump: 7 regime 6 actual action not yet

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.
Trump: 10 regime 9 actual action yes

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
Trump: evident desire 10 but given he won't get any legal structure around it and knows it: 6 regime 2 actual action - a bit

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
Trump: 10 regime 3 actual action yes

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.
Trump: 3, except he's obviously willing to go along with: regime 10 actual action yes

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
Trump 10 regime 10 actual action yes

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
This is really hard to measure because it's continued rather than new suppression, so it's hard to know the degree the currents are up on this.
So I'll just say: Trump 2 Regime 2 because they have both taken measures to avoid a resurgence but haven't taken measures to crack down - only because there's nothing to crack down on
.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.
Trump 10 regime 9 actual action yes

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
Trump 10 regime 7 actual action not yet

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
Trump 10 regime 7 actual action yes

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
Trump 10 regime 10 actual action yes
note: this was off the top of my head over 10 minutes. I did not find a list of all actions and statements and quantify. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the "regime" numbers shifted if tested, because there are so many actions and varying statements among the hundreds of people involved; finding a median would take much more time. But I'm pretty comfortable with the Trump numbers and think that they would shift very little if tested.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 08:24:06 AM by Emily » Logged
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« Reply #412 on: January 27, 2017, 08:41:49 AM »


Here's a striking set of numbers:
In the summer of 2015, according to a Pew Research Center poll, Republicans said free trade deals had been good for the country by 51 to 39 percent. By the summer of 2016, Republicans said those deals had been bad for America by 61 percent to 32 percent.

and an opinion about why that might be:
Itís not that the deals had changed, or reality. It was that Donald Trump became the Republican nominee and his dark fearfulness became the partyís dark fearfulness. In this case fear is not a reaction to the world. It is a way of seeing the world. It propels your reactions to the world.

from:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/opinion/the-politics-of-cowardice.html
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« Reply #413 on: January 27, 2017, 10:02:10 AM »

Here is a really interesting article that more or less supports what Sinister Smile has been saying (in regards to Trump running a brilliant campaign.  I am not sure this author means this in the same way Sinister Smile does, but regardless, I think he makes some great points.  The author also does an excellent job pointing out the hypocritical outrage that is so common in our post-modern culture.

http://thefederalist.com/2017/01/23/donald-trump-first-president-turn-postmodernism/

Trump may or may not be a stick in spoke of the wheels of the Hegelian dialectic/dialectical materialism (if you don't understand the Hegelian dialectic you don't understand how badly you are being played), but it wouldn't take much to turn the next four years into the anti-thesis of the new thesis that arose under Obama, giving us a nightmare synthesis we will all regret.  It will be an interesting, and potentially terrifying, four years - depending on how things play out.

EoL
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« Reply #414 on: January 27, 2017, 10:27:57 AM »

EoL, I read that and have some thoughts but I'm at work and on a phone, so they'll have to wait.
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« Reply #415 on: January 27, 2017, 11:44:27 PM »

Another kinda slow day:

Republicans plan to get rid of the endangered species act.

Audio of Republicans acknowledging the numerous problems with repealing Obamacare is leaked. Republicans admit there is no replacement for Obamacare.

The KGB chief linked to the leaked Trump file (the one where he hires some prostitutes to pee on a bed) has been "mysteriously" found dead.

Trump's ban on immigration from certain countries apparently defies 1965 law created to prevent discrimination of this nature. He signed the bill into law on Holocaust Remembrance Day. In his Holocaust Remembrance Day statement, hed fails to mention Jews and their place in the Holocaust.

Mike Pence opposed Donald's ban on muslim immigrants in a tweet from 2015.

Some travelers may be barred from returning to America due to immigration ban.

The ban on immigration continues to exclude any countries where he has business dealings.

CEO of Russia's state oil company offered former Trump adviser ~20% stake in the company for lifting sanctions on Russia. Donald continues to consider lifting sanctions, despite everyone telling him not to. If sanctions are lifted, you can assume what happened.

Donald says two were fatally shot at Obama speech, which didn't happen. Donald says "sanctuary cities" are hotbeds for crime, while actual data disagrees with him.

Despite Donald's self-proclaimed business savvy, IBM lays off thousands of workers.

Mexicans plan to boycott the United States because of Donald. Peru and Columbia vow to stand with Mexico. Mexico continues to not pay for wall.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 01:08:27 AM by Bubs » Logged
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« Reply #416 on: January 27, 2017, 11:45:23 PM »

This is a thing: Impeach Donald Trump Now.

At the time of my posting this, there are 287,273 signatures.
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« Reply #417 on: January 28, 2017, 06:37:34 AM »


Audio of Republicans acknowledging the numerous problems with repealing Obamacare is leaked. Republicans admit there is no replacement for Obamacare.

There may be no better example of the cancer of cynical hyperpartisanship than healthcare over the past near-decade. Our healthcare system prior to Obamacare--despite recent Trumpisms about how people loved their pre-ACA healthcare environment, apparently forgetting about how costs skyrocketed annually, people were dropped or kept uncovered based on preexisting conditions, etc etc--was horribly flawed. Obamacare is horribly flawed. And the replacement, if and when it arrives, will be horribly flawed.

However, the cynical, short-term partisan interests have made and will keep making things worse. Republicans sat out the ACA rather than negotiate, and the Democrats were stupid to let them do it even if the resulting bipartisan ACA would have been worse (in their eyes), and the past six or seven years are the reason why: everything that has gone wrong, Republicans have been able to shout from the rooftops, "YOU DID THIS." They have been able to leverage any bad press (and of course ignore, suppress, or deny any good press) and quite correctly (on some level) say they are innocent of the law. Had the law been bipartisan, we could have been looking at improvements all along, a shared shame and an honest effort ahead.

Now Democrats, it seems, will be doing more or less the same thing. I've heard Sen. Schumer say Democrats would work with Republicans if the latter agreed to modify ACA rather than replace it. Republicans, being politically cornered after almost 10 years of ranting and railing about the falling black skies of ACA, cannot politically accept that suggestion, even as their own rhetoric has their theoretical replacement ever-nearer the ACA (pre-existing conditions, staying on parents' healthcare to 27, no lifetime limits, etc.), as was predictable considering the challenges associated with taking away benefits once they've been given (see: furor over every suggestion to modify Social Security or Medicare). So Republicans of course have to repeal and replace, even if it ends up more like a modification.

But if Democrats take that old Republican tactic, they'll find themselves in the same place the next time they're in control of government. They will, no doubt, exaggerate the bad parts of Trumpcare and ignore, suppress, or deny the good parts. They will have no choice but to go through the same rigmarole in the future. The two parties increasingly make it impossible to jointly own anything, and joint ownership has historically been the only way to pass and maintain major legislation. Anything less results in, well, this. This crap. Yes, bipartisan legislation ends up not especially pleasing to anyone, especially any ideologue. But it also ends up, say, 75% pleasing to 75% of the people, which is much more palatable (and sustainable) than 85% pleasing to 35% of the people. If every congressperson can go home and say "look, it's not great, but it's good--it's better than what we had, and we really came together to get it done for you," that's a solid result that usually keeps incumbents in office (historically, at least before Tea Party style "primarying"), which is all they care about anyway, at least until that lucrative "consulting" career on the horizon. Instead, we have half of lawmakers going home to dramatically rant and rave against the in-power party and the disaster of a law they passed/are passing just to whip up their magically gerrymandered safe-bases, and the other half going home to prove what a great job they did with their unsustainably passed, temporary law, apparently not smart enough to realize they've only got a few years before they're on the other side. Or maybe they know they'll be out of office and enjoying that "consulting" career by the time the music stops, not caring if there's no chair for them.

It's really frustrating.
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« Reply #418 on: January 28, 2017, 07:23:28 AM »

Here is a really interesting article that more or less supports what Sinister Smile has been saying (in regards to Trump running a brilliant campaign.  I am not sure this author means this in the same way Sinister Smile does, but regardless, I think he makes some great points.  The author also does an excellent job pointing out the hypocritical outrage that is so common in our post-modern culture.

http://thefederalist.com/2017/01/23/donald-trump-first-president-turn-postmodernism/

Trump may or may not be a stick in spoke of the wheels of the Hegelian dialectic/dialectical materialism (if you don't understand the Hegelian dialectic you don't understand how badly you are being played), but it wouldn't take much to turn the next four years into the anti-thesis of the new thesis that arose under Obama, giving us a nightmare synthesis we will all regret.  It will be an interesting, and potentially terrifying, four years - depending on how things play out.

EoL

That article seems to have been getting some play: while seeing if I could find anything about the author, I noticed it's being republished all over.

My main issue with it is a common one I have: it assigns an opposing faction or idea more power than it has. In this case, it's presupposed that there is a conscious, powerful postmodernist faction dominating society to which Trump can be an opponent. While the article was interesting, I'm not sure the reality is so sinister or intellectual. I don't think the USA is in the grasp of postmodernist powers, even if there are postmodernist ideas sprinkled around. The author has written about postmodernism in two of his three Federalist stories, but about whom I am not finding a lot else about him, other than that he works for the massive multinational government contractor CACI and is on the board of the Robertson Foundation for Government.

I think people's support of Trump was more of a gut-level opposition to Obama than anything else, which isn't surprising in that regime changes are pretty regularly just an exercise in opposition to some trait(s). If people saw Obama as an aloof elitist who fatally wouldn't use this or that phrase to describe terrorists--who was elected for those very traits as contrast to the down-homey Bush II--they liked the blunt crudeness of Trump. It isn't about a rejection of postmodernism, it's "I thought things would be better than they are but my life still kind of sucks." When their lives still kind of suck, they'll vote in the next charismatic candidate who sufficiently inspires or terrifies them. It won't be about ideology or philosophy, just as it hasn't been up to now.

And I think Trump's part in his own campaign was also a gut-level exercise in ego and narcissism, with any strategy--especially along the narrative here--being brought by Bannon after some up-and-down ideas from the previous advisors like Manafort. I don't think SinisterSmile's "tortoise and the hare genius campaign" holds water, and I don't think Ernst's story is more than an academic exercise.
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« Reply #419 on: January 28, 2017, 06:26:33 PM »

On a positive note, I would like to congratulate the good work of activists who got a temporary Fed. stay on the Muslim ban. THIS is what democracy looks like.
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alf wiedersehen
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« Reply #420 on: January 28, 2017, 11:13:56 PM »

The Day in Donald:

Donald is facing massive amounts of backlash from just about everyone at this point. His historically low entrance approval rate has continued to decrease. He's probably been sued more times than any other person to hold the presidency, and he's been in the position for about a week. Russians still like him, though.

And, like Chocolate Shake Man said, people are starting to fight back.



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the captain
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« Reply #421 on: January 29, 2017, 06:31:50 AM »

The ban is a national embarrassment, and not only on moral grounds. From any other politician in history, the irony and/or hypocrisy of someone who campaigned against the inappropriateness-to-illegality of executive overreach to suddenly and blatantly use executive orders that are at least as consequential as any of the previous president's, for any other politician in history it would be shocking. The only reason this one gets a free pass is that people just shrug it off like he's your racist drunken uncle farting and dropping slurs at the table. "Haha, that's uncle Bob!" Shrug. "He's not a real politician! He isn't polished," which is moron-speak for "he's too stupid to say things that are factually correct and/or decent," or "we're all assholes too, so it's cool." f*** those morons.

Anyone who ever questioned Obama's use of executive orders but supports Trump's is an idiot or a hypocrite. Or both. f*** those morons.

If you're going to take stupid, hasty, almost certainly ineffective (if not counterproductive) moves, at least make sure the legislature goes on record to support it so they can be voted out. There are consequences to immediate actions that are not just immoral, but expensive and massively disruptive to people's lives. Imagine next time you're taking a vacation to Mexico only to be stopped in an airport there, questioned for a few hours (or a day), and sent back to the USA. Oh, and maybe your family was already in Mexico, and remains there. Oh well. It's only a few people, the administration says. 1% of travelers or whatever. So we're just being idiots and massively impacting the lives of 1% of people because we didn't think through, or didn't care, about practical realities on the ground. Much like was the case in the EO about undermining ACA. And any and every consequential EO. f*** those morons.

You hear all the time about how the markets like predictability, how important some kind of continuity and order is to business. Well, yeah, that's true. Because it's true of everyone, all the time, everywhere. For the government to blow sh*t up and laugh just because their ideologue website advisor counsel has the ear of the TV star moron president, that's pathetic and embarrassing. The "law and order" party apparently doesn't understand the concept of either when it suits them. Much as they don't mind EOs when they think they suit them. f*** those morons.

This isn't even about preventing terrorism or controlling our borders. It's about pragmatism--what will WORK for preventing terrorism?--and it's about basic human decency. f*** those morons.
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« Reply #422 on: January 29, 2017, 07:07:18 AM »

Couldn't have said it better. He manages to be worse than expected and those who continue to support him are running out of ways to claim they aren't irrational bigots.
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the captain
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« Reply #423 on: January 29, 2017, 07:23:46 AM »

Couldn't have said it better.

Really? I don't see you as a "f*** those morons" kind of person.  Grin

Two other things.

1. On hypocrisy. Since I brought up the EO undermining the ACA without any real details, direction, replacement, plan for replacement, etc., I should also note this delicious little morsel. Remember the hay the GOP, Tea Partiers, conservatives, Trumpers, and various other factions made with Pelosi's quote about having to pass the ACA to see what's in it? (Because laws with lots of pages are bad, mind you. Tax codes, too. Lots of pages = bad.) Well, here we have a short EO that nobody can predict results of because there's no substance to it, it's every bit as shallow as a talking point on the campaign trail. And guess what that means, basically? "We'll have to wait and see what it means." So ok, you avoided the "too long/didn't read" boogeyman, but you have the same end result: SHUT THE f*** UP, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE DOING, IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT WE DON'T KNOW WHAT IT MEANS OR WILL DO, EITHER, BUT BY GOD, WE LIKE IT.

Conservatism, you may want to remember, is in large part based on valuing tradition and order, and hesitates to make dramatic change quickly because of unintended consequences. That's not me talking, that's not a criticism, that's just the reality of what conservatism is. Conservatives should be every bit as outraged as anyone else over these firebomb EOs.

2. None of my rantings or ravings this morning (or ever) are actually opposed to anyone's political ideology, necessarily. Conservatism is entirely valid. (It isn't being represented here by Trump in the slightest, but that's besides the point.) Your position has a right to be heard, to be debated, and to have a role in governance. That's a democratic republic with a legislature. But an "end justifies the means" mentality is more than just hypocritical and immoral, it's counterproductive to the security of anyone's objectives, because it inflames opposing viewpoints and ensures they will simply come back in opposition harder and with every one of the same tactics (as I raved about re healthcare yesterday). It's so fucking stupid. You're* so fucking stupid.

*If this doesn't apply to you, congrats! I'm not talking to you. If you are, well, you're fucking stupid. It's not my fault. I didn't drop you as a baby.
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« Reply #424 on: January 29, 2017, 07:28:46 AM »

I tend not to be fond of NYT Editorial Board editorials, but I think this one is a pretty good summary of some serious flaws with the petulant president.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/28/opinion/sunday/can-donald-trump-handle-the-truth.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region&_r=0
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