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Author Topic: Politics: 2016 Lame Duck and 2017 New Administration  (Read 165526 times)
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Alex
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« Reply #325 on: January 16, 2017, 03:07:39 PM »

Wait... if Three Doors Down is playing the "inauguration" then who's covering their shifts at Applebee's?

I coulda sworn they worked at Waffle House.

Chick-fil-A is more likely, what with that chain's stellar history with gay rights and such.

Slightly OT, hope this post is ok...

I actually used to like 3 Doors Down at one point in time (I was only 14!). I bought their first album because I liked Kryptonite, ended up also buying their second album a couple years later. My fondness for their music slowly wore off over time. Around 2003 I realized they sounded exactly like Creed, Fuel, Nickelback, Staind, etc. etc. I gave my copies of their albums to a kid who did still like 3DD. Their playing at the second Bush inauguration was the final nail in the coffin. I went from indifference of their music to outright hatred and (immaturely) started associating the entire post-grunge genre with the right wing and rednecks (I eventually mellowed on that, but I still don't care for post-grunge). Fortunately, I was just a few months away from my initial Pet Sounds and SMiLE phase.
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"I thought Brian was a perfect gentleman, apart from buttering his head and trying to put it between two slices of bread"  -Tom Petty, after eating with Brian.
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« Reply #326 on: January 17, 2017, 06:17:20 AM »

Wait... if Three Doors Down is playing the "inauguration" then who's covering their shifts at Applebee's?

I coulda sworn they worked at Waffle House.

Chick-fil-A is more likely, what with that chain's stellar history with gay rights and such.

Slightly OT, hope this post is ok...

I actually used to like 3 Doors Down at one point in time (I was only 14!). I bought their first album because I liked Kryptonite, ended up also buying their second album a couple years later. My fondness for their music slowly wore off over time. Around 2003 I realized they sounded exactly like Creed, Fuel, Nickelback, Staind, etc. etc. I gave my copies of their albums to a kid who did still like 3DD. Their playing at the second Bush inauguration was the final nail in the coffin. I went from indifference of their music to outright hatred and (immaturely) started associating the entire post-grunge genre with the right wing and rednecks (I eventually mellowed on that, but I still don't care for post-grunge). Fortunately, I was just a few months away from my initial Pet Sounds and SMiLE phase.

Yes, the Summer of 2000.  I was 19 going on 20, and every time Kryptonite came on the radio, I blared it.  Funnily enough, that song actually sounded fresh on rock radio in 2000, as were we used to rap/rock, and CA rock like Smashmouth and Sugar Ray. 

I'm glad I never bought the 3DD album, because the song, and the band got old quick, and like you said, they blended in with the ultra bland, paint by numbers rock scene in the US in the early 2000s. 

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HeyJude
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« Reply #327 on: January 19, 2017, 07:32:00 AM »

The Joker once again:

https://audioboom.com/posts/5501476-a-very-special-message-for-martin-luther-king-day
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Emily
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« Reply #328 on: January 19, 2017, 08:02:33 PM »

Thanks again, HeyJude. Love it.

On a different topic:
I spent about an hour a few months ago trying to point out to Breitbarters and facebookers the signs of fake in this story:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/18/us/fake-news-hillary-clinton-cameron-harris.amp.html?
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Emily
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« Reply #329 on: January 19, 2017, 08:06:04 PM »

Then there's this, the conclusions of which are arguable, but the underlying facts about Erik Prince and his disinformation is not.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_587ed24fe4b0b110fe11dbf9
« Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 08:20:11 PM by Emily » Logged
HeyJude
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« Reply #330 on: January 20, 2017, 07:08:18 AM »

It appears the modus operandi is to do in office the same thing as the campaign, which is to do *everything* unethically so that everything blends together and nothing particularly sticks out because it's all awful and unethical.

We just have to hope the press doesn't totally suck I guess.

I had a serious conversation yesterday. No hyperbole, no particular humor. We were trying to determine what at this point Trump could possibly do that would actually result in legitimate outrage resulting in some sort of actual action (investigation leading to actual prosecution, impeachment, etc.), and we couldn't really think of *any* scenario where we would be 100% certain anything would happen.

Tape surfacing with Trump using the N word (long rumored to exist somewhere)? I don't think that would do anything, and sadly would probably have not sunk his election hopes either.

We finally came around to the obvious huge extremes, like a murder charge or some serious violent felony or something, and I think even if he was up on murder charges he'd probably hang on until he was actually convicted, and he if he wasn't convicted, he would stay on and run for re-election.
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« Reply #331 on: January 20, 2017, 07:20:25 AM »

I had a serious conversation yesterday. No hyperbole, no particular humor. We were trying to determine what at this point Trump could possibly do that would actually result in legitimate outrage resulting in some sort of actual action (investigation leading to actual prosecution, impeachment, etc.), and we couldn't really think of *any* scenario where we would be 100% certain anything would happen. 

You're right. And this is why more effort needs to go into explaining why his actual policies are terrible and harmful.
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Emily
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« Reply #332 on: January 20, 2017, 08:47:23 AM »

Agree with both - however, I don't think there's any policy explainer who would be heard. I think the target audience is well-trained to dismiss the explainer.
Somehow  getting a handle on teaching actual critical thinking and source evaluation in primary and secondary school needs to be prioritized.
There have been multiple studies showing that teenagers and college students are, for the most part, unable to distinguish among sources and don't have the skills and/or desire to validate the information they receive.
The internet has completely changed how information is disseminated and education needs to be restructured accordingly.
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Chocolate Shake Man
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« Reply #333 on: January 20, 2017, 08:59:26 AM »

Absolutely.

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Emily
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« Reply #334 on: January 20, 2017, 09:29:36 AM »

I was pulled into this article by the title, thinking "wouldn't it be Trump who owes Christians?" in the frequent use of 'Christians' to refer to a subset of evangelicals. Turned out to be a reasonable article.
I wonder how often he should be given the benefit of the doubt, though. Hasn't that happened several times?
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/01/20/three-things-every-christian-owes-president-trump.amp.html
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 09:35:00 AM by Emily » Logged
Emily
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« Reply #335 on: January 20, 2017, 10:12:25 AM »

Well that was a gross speech.
I often wonder this about Trump: does he understand what it is that he does that repels so many people and he just doesn't care, or does he really not know?
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Empire Of Love
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« Reply #336 on: January 20, 2017, 11:09:36 AM »

Agree with both - however, I don't think there's any policy explainer who would be heard. I think the target audience is well-trained to dismiss the explainer.
Somehow  getting a handle on teaching actual critical thinking and source evaluation in primary and secondary school needs to be prioritized.
There have been multiple studies showing that teenagers and college students are, for the most part, unable to distinguish among sources and don't have the skills and/or desire to validate the information they receive.
The internet has completely changed how information is disseminated and education needs to be restructured accordingly.

Completely separate from the overall political argument(s) of this thread: could you let us know what credentials you have that enable you to be immune to propaganda and proficient in critical thinking?

EoL
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Chocolate Shake Man
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« Reply #337 on: January 20, 2017, 11:42:36 AM »

Agree with both - however, I don't think there's any policy explainer who would be heard. I think the target audience is well-trained to dismiss the explainer.
Somehow  getting a handle on teaching actual critical thinking and source evaluation in primary and secondary school needs to be prioritized.
There have been multiple studies showing that teenagers and college students are, for the most part, unable to distinguish among sources and don't have the skills and/or desire to validate the information they receive.
The internet has completely changed how information is disseminated and education needs to be restructured accordingly.

Completely separate from the overall political argument(s) of this thread: could you let us know what credentials you have that enable you to be immune to propaganda and proficient in critical thinking?

EoL

I don't want to speak for her but it is a fairly gross mischaracterization of her point to suggest that she is arguing that you need credentials in order to be immune to propaganda and proficient in critical thinking.
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Emily
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« Reply #338 on: January 20, 2017, 12:13:41 PM »

Yeah. I don't really get the question. I don't think anyone is "immune" from propaganda, but certainly one can gain skills to filter it better, look for supporting evidence or lack thereof, etc. but I don't think there's a credentialing organization.
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Empire Of Love
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« Reply #339 on: January 20, 2017, 12:46:40 PM »

Yeah. I don't really get the question. I don't think anyone is "immune" from propaganda, but certainly one can gain skills to filter it better, look for supporting evidence or lack thereof, etc. but I don't think there's a credentialing organization.

I was using the word in its secondary sense (from www.dictionary.com, not the standard of the English language but I believe it will suffice for this particular purpose):

Credential: 2. anything that provides the basis for confidence, belief, credit, etc.

What I would like to know is what gives you the confidence to speak of others as being subject to propaganda (well-trained to dismiss the explainer) and lacking basic critical thinking skills (There have been multiple studies...), yet you don't seem to think of yourself in this way.  From your posts it is clear that you know quite a bit - but knowing information and being able to accurately assess it are two different things.  You present yourself as someone confident in your opinions and confident that others are wrong, so I naturally wonder what gives you this confidence.  How can you be certain you are not the one who is well-trained and in need of critical thinking skills?

EoL
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Emily
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« Reply #340 on: January 20, 2017, 12:55:15 PM »

Ah. Well, there are several pointers that one could use. First, there are exams, essays, various academic and professional challenges that provide one with comparative data. But beyond that, critical thinking and checking sources are learned skills and processes that I consciously use when evaluating news and it's very clear from my interactions with others here and elsewhere, as well as from studies, reports, examples, and polls, some of which have been referenced on this site, that many people form their political opinions, particularly their opinions about individuals in politics but also general opinions, without following any such process or without following a sufficient process.

Oh - and the topic was raised in this instance by an example of published disinformation that I had identified as false upon publication and is now not only proved false due to lack of credible supporting evidence and the use of an old English photo, an apparent fake subject name and a fishy single-source website (how I identified the fakeness at the time), but due to the author being found and his admission that it was disinformation.

Also, I'm good at math.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 01:00:55 PM by Emily » Logged
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« Reply #341 on: January 20, 2017, 03:04:22 PM »

A couple lines from his speech are nearly verbatim from Bane's (the supervillain in the film) speech in "The Dark Knight Rises."

I guess someone has to get Tom Hardy to do his own recording of the inauguration speech in Bane's voice now...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/the-fix/wp/2017/01/20/this-section-of-trumps-inaugural-address-sounds-a-lot-like-bane-from-batman/
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« Reply #342 on: January 20, 2017, 05:21:14 PM »

I think it's funny that fake news still gets brought up while the same people probably believed the fake polls.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 06:12:26 PM by SinisterSmile » Logged
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« Reply #343 on: January 20, 2017, 07:32:03 PM »

Exhibit one: Sinister Smile. A nihilist who believed RT-sourced stories about Clinton's health and heaven knows what else.
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« Reply #344 on: January 21, 2017, 12:57:57 AM »

Exhibit one: Sinister Smile. A nihilist who believed RT-sourced stories about Clinton's health and heaven knows what else.

Could've also went with
Exhibit one: Sinister Smile. A down to earth guy that correctly predicted the outcome of the general election months in advance and managed to see through the fake polls  angel
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HeyJude
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« Reply #345 on: January 21, 2017, 03:17:18 AM »

The 2016 national polls were actually slightly closer to the mark than 2012. The polls weren't a big problem, but the media's lazy characterization of the polls and the election in general were problematic.

The media obviously finds it much easier to blame the polls than themselves.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-real-story-of-2016/


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« Reply #346 on: January 21, 2017, 05:05:27 AM »

Most of the state polls weren't much off either: the vast majority of states were correct; they showed the states that were close were close; and the "surprise" states that Clinton lost were shown as very close and, after the Comey letter, rapidly swinging to Trump with daily measurable movement so if one does the calculus of the arcs in the last weeks, a 20,000 or so win by Trump would be in the margin. So, yeah, "fake polls" is fake news.
So I could've gone with your suggestion, SinisterSmile, but I would've been wrong.
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« Reply #347 on: January 21, 2017, 06:30:01 AM »

You're allowed to admit that I predicted the outcome of the election Emily, I think that'd look pretty spiffy on that resume you made for me.

Now as for the polls, Clinton was leading pretty strong for ages, right? And then the wheels kinda came off at the end, yeah? Kinda reminds me of the tortoise and the hare, I think I might have mentioned that earlier as well.
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Chocolate Shake Man
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« Reply #348 on: January 21, 2017, 08:15:44 AM »

Now as for the polls, Clinton was leading pretty strong for ages, right?


And then millions more people voted for her.
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« Reply #349 on: January 21, 2017, 08:26:40 AM »

Now as for the polls, Clinton was leading pretty strong for ages, right?


And then millions more people voted for her.

That's true.
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