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Author Topic: Politics: 2016 Lame Duck and 2017 New Administration  (Read 165992 times)
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the captain
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« Reply #300 on: January 05, 2017, 04:34:41 PM »

We've occasionally discussed "fake news" here, so I think this is apropos. While I'm a half-hearted champion of the mainstream media titans--which is to say I value journalistic training, standards, and resources above Joe Public's blog, which isn't to say Joe Public's blog may not be great, necessarily--this is important. I think Greenwald has a valid point (though he's also had grudges against mainstream media since ... Iraq war?). This is not a matter of equivalence in my opinion, as partisan webrags (tm) smear sh*t on your device's screens with reckless abandon. But Greenwald is right: the titans are all too often happy to jump at shadows and scream "ghost!", and all too quiet in acknowledging mistakes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvEaFUaQjuE
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« Reply #301 on: January 05, 2017, 05:32:55 PM »

I didn't really want to respond in the politics thread before I had an opportunity to respond to Emily's thoughtful post in response to my own earlier post but I just want to say quickly that I also agree with Greenwald here. I have followed his work for quite some time and I think I can say confidently that he would probably agree with you (as would I) and say that the mainstream media is still very much a far more valuable resource than Joe Public's blog but because that is the case, they should also be held to a much higher standard when it comes to honest reporting. This is true not just because they are a more valuable resource, but also because they have such an affect on the public mindset. They have the resources to get their information out to the largest audience, they largely dictate what gets to count as "news," and they are in many ways agenda setters. In many ways, I think that their fake stories can have more significant consequences.
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Emily
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« Reply #302 on: January 06, 2017, 05:31:55 AM »

My goodness, please don't refrain on my behalf. No headphones, on train. Can't watch video. :-(
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Emily
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« Reply #303 on: January 06, 2017, 07:20:16 PM »

“The dishonest media does not report that any money spent on building the Great Wall (for sake of speed), will be paid back by Mexico later!”

I can't say how much disdain I have for this guy. In what world would it be ethical to even ask Mexico to pay for this stupid wall? In what world is it not repulsive to propose this wall and build a campaign on it and call it "great"? In what world is it "dishonest" to say what you legitimately believe to be true? He's absolutely disgusting.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2017, 07:21:20 PM by Emily » Logged
Emily
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« Reply #304 on: January 06, 2017, 08:41:16 PM »

We've occasionally discussed "fake news" here, so I think this is apropos. While I'm a half-hearted champion of the mainstream media titans--which is to say I value journalistic training, standards, and resources above Joe Public's blog, which isn't to say Joe Public's blog may not be great, necessarily--this is important. I think Greenwald has a valid point (though he's also had grudges against mainstream media since ... Iraq war?). This is not a matter of equivalence in my opinion, as partisan webrags (tm) smear sh*t on your device's screens with reckless abandon. But Greenwald is right: the titans are all too often happy to jump at shadows and scream "ghost!", and all too quiet in acknowledging mistakes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvEaFUaQjuE
i watched and I agree.
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« Reply #305 on: January 10, 2017, 07:20:00 PM »

#GOLDENSHOWERS
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Emily
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« Reply #306 on: January 11, 2017, 10:39:23 AM »

Too much news. The confirmation hearings, the press conference, Comey, Russians, even Meryl Streep. Just too much.
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SMiLE Brian
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« Reply #307 on: January 11, 2017, 10:52:23 AM »

Was Filleplage the lady reading all the legalese mumbo jumbo after Trump ran off the stage today? Evil
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« Reply #308 on: January 13, 2017, 01:15:52 PM »

This might be the most cathartic, brilliant, yet frightening satire bit I've seen so far:

https://twitter.com/HamillHimself/status/817901534948179968
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« Reply #309 on: January 13, 2017, 01:17:30 PM »

And this, an imaginary look at what Trump's response to Mark Hamill would be. Again, brilliant (though requiring some familiarity with Trump's tweets and some basic Star Wars familiarity):

https://twitter.com/HamillHimself/status/818568321612148738
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Emily
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« Reply #310 on: January 13, 2017, 01:22:05 PM »

Oh my god. So good.
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CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #311 on: January 13, 2017, 03:36:37 PM »

Gotta love the implication by mtaber in the Trump inauguration thread that calling out Bannon for being intolerant for using "dikes" as a slur against lesbians is itself an act of intolerance.

By that logic, anyone like MLK Jr. who stood up to people being called the "n" word is also intolerant for not being tolerant, and by not just laying down and surrendering to allowing such slurs to be commonplace.

Amazing feats of logic.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2017, 03:48:32 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇
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« Reply #312 on: January 13, 2017, 03:44:34 PM »

Gotta love the implication by mtaber in the Trump inauguration thread that calling out Bannon for being intolerant for using "dikes" as a slur against lesbians is itself an act of intolerance.

By that logic, anyone like MLK Jr. who stood up to people being called the "n" word is also intolerant for not being tolerant, and by not just laying down and surrendering to allowing such slurs to be commonplace.

Amazing feats of logic.

Agreed
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« Reply #313 on: January 13, 2017, 09:00:27 PM »

Wait... if Three Doors Down is playing the "inauguration" then who's covering their shifts at Applebee's?
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mtaber
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« Reply #314 on: January 14, 2017, 03:31:55 AM »

CenturyDeprived - I did not imply that we should be tolerant of slurs against LGBT people.  I did not imply that we should be tolerant of racial slurs.  I said we should be tolerant of people with different views than ours, at least within reason.  People in the Trump camp have said and done highly insensitive things.  People in the Clinton camp have said and done highly insensitive things.  This thread was obviously started with the intention, not of being about the ramifications of the band's appearing to take sides politically, but rather about the ramifications of the band's apparent support of a political figure the poster does not like.  I'm not saying Trump is great.  I'm not saying Clinton is great.  These two may have been the worst two candidates in American history.  If you're going to bash Trump supporters, you should also be bashing Clinton supporters.
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Emily
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« Reply #315 on: January 14, 2017, 07:06:15 AM »

CenturyDeprived - I did not imply that we should be tolerant of slurs against LGBT people.  I did not imply that we should be tolerant of racial slurs.  I said we should be tolerant of people with different views than ours, at least within reason.  People in the Trump camp have said and done highly insensitive things.  People in the Clinton camp have said and done highly insensitive things.  This thread was obviously started with the intention, not of being about the ramifications of the band's appearing to take sides politically, but rather about the ramifications of the band's apparent support of a political figure the poster does not like.  I'm not saying Trump is great.  I'm not saying Clinton is great.  These two may have been the worst two candidates in American history.  If you're going to bash Trump supporters, you should also be bashing Clinton supporters.
Stevenson, Eisenhower, Kefauver, Kennedy, Nixon, Cabot Lodge, Johnson, Goldwater, Humphrey, Kennedy, McGovern, Ford, Rockefeller, Carter, Mondale, Kennedy, Anderson, Bush, Reagan, Ferraro, Quayle, Dukakis, Bentson, Clinton, Gore, Perot, Dole, Kemp, Nader, Lieberman, Edwards, Bush, Cheney, Kerry, Obama, Biden, McCain, Romney, Ryan, Clinton, Kaine, Stein, Johnson, Trump
You can group these people in many ways. Some have done or said despicable things. Most I have disagreed with fervently on more than one topic. Several have employed racial "dog-whistles." Most have been dishonest to greater or lesser degrees.
Only one has exhibited extensive ignorance on the issues and governance, pure contempt for honesty and the checks on the presidency, and centered his campaign around lies and attacks on minorities and women.
That is why objections to him are not like objections to other candidates and other president-elects.

And, I forgot, persisted in broad attacks on his opponent and her supporters after the election.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2017, 07:14:36 AM by Emily » Logged
mtaber
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« Reply #316 on: January 14, 2017, 09:34:58 AM »

I respect your right to your opinion, Emily. 
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CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #317 on: January 14, 2017, 10:03:15 AM »

CenturyDeprived - I did not imply that we should be tolerant of slurs against LGBT people.  I did not imply that we should be tolerant of racial slurs.  I said we should be tolerant of people with different views than ours, at least within reason.  People in the Trump camp have said and done highly insensitive things.  People in the Clinton camp have said and done highly insensitive things.  This thread was obviously started with the intention, not of being about the ramifications of the band's appearing to take sides politically, but rather about the ramifications of the band's apparent support of a political figure the poster does not like.  I'm not saying Trump is great.  I'm not saying Clinton is great.  These two may have been the worst two candidates in American history.  If you're going to bash Trump supporters, you should also be bashing Clinton supporters.

mtaber - One thing you should know, I am no big fan of Hillary myself. In a previous thread, I had a long discussion about my deep issues with her.  I agree that some of the things which people defend her (and the people surrounding her) for are truly ridiculous and indefensible.  Her most ardent fans are people who have drank the Kool-Aid just as much as Trump fans have drank the Kool-Aid.  It bugs the crap out of me very much so.

That said, I won't begin to put her anywhere near the same gutter league as Trump and his cabinet.  To me, Trump and those around him have the attitude of "I don't give a flying f*** about anyone except ourselves...women, marginalized communities, etc. be damned".  It's a very special kind of despicable, which is in its own solar system or galaxy.  Hillary Clinton, while deeply flawed, was a vastly preferable choice on many levels.  I don't really care to get into another discussion of comparing those two candidates, because I have been there and done that.

I generally agree with your statement "we should be tolerant of people with different views than ours, at least within reason."  But where I draw the line is defending, minimizing, or legitimizing racism and bigotry. That just doesn't fly. I won't just "let it go" if somebody is trying to imply that those things are *anything* but completely despicable, reprehensible, and unacceptable in public officials.  

That's not something I can agree to disagree about. Pence is a piece of sh*t. Bannon is a piece of sh*t.  Trump is reprehensible beyond imagination.  They have done everything in their power to imply that gay folks can go f*** off for all they care, that women are little more than objects, and the entire races of people can be painted with wide brushes and vilified.  And that apologies are for suckers. The incredibly insensitive way in which these people have conducted themselves will continue to lead to major, major unrest because they lack any sort of empathy or sensitivity. Trump doesn't know the meaning of the word empathy. Not whatsoever. I don't believe there is any wiggle room in those statements. If that makes me intolerant, sorry.

I think that many people just don't think that gay rights, for example, are that big a deal.  Privately, they are really sick of hearing about it, and probably roll their eyes all the time when nobody is looking. But they don't feel it's culturally acceptable to outright say that, so they just bend themselves into a pretzel trying to defend/minimize terrible things.

And of course, time and time again, every time I encounter somebody who defends these things, they are inevitably a white, heterosexual person almost without fail.  It's so predictable that it's laughable. Not that there is anything whatsoever wrong with being a white, heterosexual person.  Many such people have tremendous empathy across the board and "get it".  I don't like to see that group of people vilified with blanket statements, or to become punching bags either. But it comes as little surprise that people who downplay things (which will not directly affect them) just *happen* to by and large be people who are not going to be directly at risk for what these punks who are about to take power will unleash in terms of dangerous public sentiment.

I will be civil when arguing about it, but I won't just agree to disagree but when it comes to someone defending blatant, slur-using, unapologetic bigots. It has to be completely unacceptable, or our society is really going to be f*cked if that type of stuff is legitimized by those in power who are able to somehow get away with it.  

It should be everybody's moral obligation and responsibility, regardless of political party, to make sure that people in power do not simply "get away with" behaving in the manner that this cabinet behaves unapologetically.  The lack of empathy that many intelligent people, who should really know better, display with regards to this administration is truly shocking and jaw-dropping beyond words.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2017, 05:37:41 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #318 on: January 14, 2017, 09:19:53 PM »

CenturyDeprived - I did not imply that we should be tolerant of slurs against LGBT people.  I did not imply that we should be tolerant of racial slurs.  I said we should be tolerant of people with different views than ours, at least within reason.  People in the Trump camp have said and done highly insensitive things.  People in the Clinton camp have said and done highly insensitive things.  This thread was obviously started with the intention, not of being about the ramifications of the band's appearing to take sides politically, but rather about the ramifications of the band's apparent support of a political figure the poster does not like.  I'm not saying Trump is great.  I'm not saying Clinton is great.  These two may have been the worst two candidates in American history.  If you're going to bash Trump supporters, you should also be bashing Clinton supporters.

This false equivalency of Trump and Clinton entirely misses the point of the outrage regarding the idea of the BBs name being associated with Trump. I can certainly understand why anyone who thinks Trump and Clinton are simply equally objectionable are left scratching their heads at the outrage of BB fans and the public in general.
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« Reply #319 on: January 14, 2017, 09:21:17 PM »

More from The Joker as Trump:

https://audioboom.com/posts/5495377-return-of-the-trumpster
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« Reply #320 on: January 15, 2017, 05:34:55 AM »

I want an extension that plays a joker reading every time I see a Trump tweet
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« Reply #321 on: January 15, 2017, 09:25:34 AM »


Genius. Simply genius.
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« Reply #322 on: January 15, 2017, 10:57:06 AM »

Wait... if Three Doors Down is playing the "inauguration" then who's covering their shifts at Applebee's?

I coulda sworn they worked at Waffle House.
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CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #323 on: January 15, 2017, 12:51:08 PM »

Wait... if Three Doors Down is playing the "inauguration" then who's covering their shifts at Applebee's?

I coulda sworn they worked at Waffle House.

Chick-fil-A is more likely, what with that chain's stellar history with gay rights and such.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2017, 01:42:21 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm
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« Reply #324 on: January 16, 2017, 01:41:54 PM »

In today's news, the Bruce Springsteen TRIBUTE band booked for the inauguration has now dropped out.   LOL

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