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Author Topic: Mike opens up about Melinda.  (Read 55839 times)
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« Reply #300 on: September 19, 2016, 07:37:37 PM »

Why do you say that?  I understand that he had pressures to write and produce hit records when he was young, but compared to most, where there is finding a job, trying to make enough money to make the house payment, groceries, tuition, etc., he had it easy.  His problem was mental illness and lacking a doctor to properly diagnose and treat it, and drugs.

How about being in the music business and producing records with the use of only one good ear? Beyond all the family crap he had to deal with, of course. It is pretty amazing he managed to accomplish what he did at that young age, with one ear no less, and he's still making people happy with his music up to the present day, defying the odds many gave him even 20 years ago. That's pretty damned impressive.
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« Reply #301 on: September 19, 2016, 07:42:53 PM »

Damn straight GF, even with your Eagles kicking my Bears ass...
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« Reply #302 on: September 19, 2016, 07:48:24 PM »

That Mike Love's wife is listed in the business filings for his company is most probably for tax purposes, namely to keep them as low as possible and keep control within the family.  That is not the same as someone actively making important decisions about how a band tours, how the show is presented and how they go about recording an album.  I doubt that Mike Love's wife is an active decision maker for his band, other than sharing her opinions with him about the band.  I suspect that on Brian's side of things, his wife is quite active and assertive in the running of his operations.  Various comments that are posted on this board from time to time seem to confirm this.  That Mike Love found it difficult, ultimately unacceptable, that he would have to deal with a band member's wife after years of calling the shots, a woman with no background in the music industry, I can understand his irritation at that.  I completely disagree with the decision Mike Love made to end the BB's in 2012, but recognize that on Brian's side of things they gave him plenty of reasons to go the way he did.      

So you doubt and suspect, then this would be your opinion of how things happen behind the scenes. Do you know or are you going on what people have told you? You're putting more stock into what you've heard or been told about one of the wives than you are about the other, yet knowing little firsthand about either case. Is that an accurate read?

All I can say is this to consider: How has Brian's career been since 1996? I'd say it's been pretty solid and successful. Wildly successful on some fronts. He's still making music, he managed to release a dozen plus albums over those 20 years and he probably has more in the works. He has a successful and loving marriage and family, he's doing what he wants to do for the fans and we're reaping the benefits of having the chance to see him play his music live and buy the records, and he has people who care about him and love him backing him up.

If writing songs alone in a room with Mike has somehow been a casualty of the past 20 years of Brian's life, so be it. The man is happy where he is, I'd say. Unless some board members can try to dispute that via their sources.
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« Reply #303 on: September 20, 2016, 11:14:15 AM »

The Beach Boys were/are band with brothers and a cousin, with a father/uncle for a manager, then later a cousin/brother as a manager, and another brother/cousin and, separately a cousin, as "handlers," with nieces, nephews, sons and daughters performing on stage with the band, with a sister/cousin performing as harpist on recordings, with a wife and in-laws doing vocals on recordings, and a wife having power of attorney for a time, sitting in as substitute for a band member on business decisions.

Given all this, are you really discussing whether a wife involved with management should be considered offensive/irritating/inappropriate?

To whom is your question directed?
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« Reply #304 on: September 20, 2016, 12:11:16 PM »

"So you doubt and suspect, then this would be your opinion of how things happen behind the scenes. Do you know or are you going on what people have told you? You're putting more stock into what you've heard or been told about one of the wives than you are about the other, yet knowing little firsthand about either case. Is that an accurate read?"

I'm going strictly on what I have read in articles and on this board and others over the years.  If Mike's wife was trying to throw her weight around during the C50 tour and sending faxes or e-mails that said no more tours with the original Beach Boys, that would be a fair point.   

I agree that Brian certainly is healthier and better than days gone by.  With the exception of Lucky Old Sun and Orange Crate Art, his albums have been mediocre.  I don't believe he produced TWGMTR, Joe Thomas probably did.
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« Reply #305 on: September 20, 2016, 01:25:44 PM »

Quote
With the exception of Lucky Old Sun and Orange Crate Art, his albums have been mediocre.  I don't believe he produced TWGMTR, Joe Thomas probably did.

TWGMTR was more Thomas, but Thomas's involvement with NPP on the production-side was nil after a certain point.
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« Reply #306 on: September 20, 2016, 11:51:08 PM »

"So you doubt and suspect, then this would be your opinion of how things happen behind the scenes. Do you know or are you going on what people have told you? You're putting more stock into what you've heard or been told about one of the wives than you are about the other, yet knowing little firsthand about either case. Is that an accurate read?"

I'm going strictly on what I have read in articles and on this board and others over the years.  If Mike's wife was trying to throw her weight around during the C50 tour and sending faxes or e-mails that said no more tours with the original Beach Boys, that would be a fair point. 

I agree that Brian certainly is healthier and better than days gone by.  With the exception of Lucky Old Sun and Orange Crate Art, his albums have been mediocre.  I don't believe he produced TWGMTR, Joe Thomas probably did.

The point in bold, I'll go back to asking the question about that email often cited - What was the context, and what if anything came before it? You have a multi-million dollar tour with a large crew and a lot of people having a stake in it...as a corporation it does not rest on one lone email. So, what if anything preceded that email? Do we know? Do you know? Maybe the scenario you speculated on (in bold) was part of it. It's as valid enough of a point to consider, right?

As for context there, consider this reply to your original questions about roles in the whole thing, from another person here who has the book:


 The impression I got from reading the book is that Jacquelyne calls the shots!  It was her decision to trim the touring band and cut the costs.  I also got the impression she would have been the one who told some people they were no longer required.  I think that may have been alluded to in the past in this board by friends of disgruntled former members.

He's not wrong. That's the impression from Mike's book.
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« Reply #307 on: September 21, 2016, 11:24:34 AM »

I have not gotten to the chapter on C50 yet, but I did skip ahead to read the account of what happened with Melinda over SOS and did see the interview with Mike where he addresses the same issue.  Regardless of who Melinda said it to or who she claimed she was partners with, the fact of the matter was and still is Melinda Wilson will always be a problem for Mike and vice versa.  The two don't like each other, plain and simple.  This was far from the only dust up involving them around this time.  I've heard another story straight from one of the principals regarding a meeting that took place between Melinda and Mike (Brian was not present, but some other band members were along with Jackie Love) that ended ugly.  I could certainly take the position that Melinda is only looking out for what she believes is her husband's best interest.  Obviously, Mike is going to be looking out for his best interest.  It's amazing the whole thing went as long as it did. 
There were posters on this board who were hoping that Mike would address C50 in his book.  Well, he did and now it seems it isn't good enough and we need more follow up and clarification from him.  Why is no one hoping that Brian addresses C50 in his book, so we get to hear his side?  I personally would love to hear what he has to say about it.  We got Mike's recollections and views, so I would love to hear Brian's.
And to address the differences in how the wives are involved, I think urbanite was somewhat close.  Jackie is definitely involved from a business/money perspective.  She does not act as the band's manager/her husband's manager or their tour manager.  However, she certainly has influence but Mike does make his own decisions. Melinda is much more involved and I think due to the personal feelings involved, Mike will never get over that and has a very difficult time dealing with someone he doesn't like.  I'm sure in his head he truly believes that Melinda is keeping Brian from him.  Honestly the only thing that can happen at this point is for Brian to call Mike directly and say "I never want to work with you again."  That may finally be the end and life can go on for everyone.
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« Reply #308 on: September 21, 2016, 11:30:37 AM »

Who said anybody is not hoping Brian addresses C50 in his book? I certainly hope he does.

As for Mike's take on C50 from his book, it just doesn't offer much new he hasn't already said, and one would often hope that one's 350 page (or whatever it is) autobiography would expand on shorter interviews and pieces he has written. C50 is the most divisive *group* issue to happen since, arguably, the splintering of the band almost 20 years ago. It's a big deal.

I'm still working towards a bigger write-up on the C50 segment of Mike's book, but the long and short of it is that he largely reiterates things from his interviews and his LA Times piece (at times using seemingly almost identical wording), and sprinkles in some unflattering stories about Melinda and Brian. Al (and Dave and Bruce) are never mentioned. He offers some of the same conflicting reasons for ending the reunion. He says it was always going to be a limited tour and he always planned to go back to his own thing, but then he cites an e-mail from Brian's camp as the reason. He says he booked his own shows only *after* that "no more shows" e-mail, but then also claims he is *required* to book shows to abide by his license from BRI. And on and on.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2016, 11:36:30 AM by HeyJude » Logged

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« Reply #309 on: September 21, 2016, 11:59:48 AM »

I beg to differ.  I think it does seem to go into more detail than any interviews I've seen from him since the end.  He may offer up some of the same reasons but to my knowledge he never once mentioned Melinda specifically or any strife with her until the book came out.  Also, I hadn't seen him say that he was ready to quit the tour as he did in the book.  If you are looking for Mike to come out and say, "I just wanted to be the boss of the entire operation again," that isn't going to happen.  So we get the same reasons he gave before and then mentions the issues with Melinda.  Bottom line, he was never going to be THE boss working with Brian as long as Melinda was around. 

HJ- I believe you mentioned before that you would like for a band member or someone else to write a detailed look into C50.  I personally would love that too.  However, I'm actually surprised we got as much as we did from Mike about it and I actually don't have too much faith that we will get much of anything from Brian on the subject in his autobiography.  I hope he surprises me.
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« Reply #310 on: September 21, 2016, 12:25:03 PM »

This is why the group needed a manager to deal with the factions and advance the interests of the Beach Boys as a group.  I would bet that Mike Love thinks he's smarter and more knowledgeable than Melinda, and vice versa.  The truth is they've both been milking the oldies all along.  A manager would have pushed another album and a tour to back it up.
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« Reply #311 on: September 21, 2016, 12:37:24 PM »

I beg to differ.  I think it does seem to go into more detail than any interviews I've seen from him since the end.  He may offer up some of the same reasons but to my knowledge he never once mentioned Melinda specifically or any strife with her until the book came out.  Also, I hadn't seen him say that he was ready to quit the tour as he did in the book.  If you are looking for Mike to come out and say, "I just wanted to be the boss of the entire operation again," that isn't going to happen.  So we get the same reasons he gave before and then mentions the issues with Melinda.  Bottom line, he was never going to be THE boss working with Brian as long as Melinda was around.  

HJ- I believe you mentioned before that you would like for a band member or someone else to write a detailed look into C50.  I personally would love that too.  However, I'm actually surprised we got as much as we did from Mike about it and I actually don't have too much faith that we will get much of anything from Brian on the subject in his autobiography.  I hope he surprises me.

The book certainly offers a bit more raw information from Mike's perspective on C50. But it does nothing to further the "why" question. And in the case of  "new" stories about Melinda and Mike threatening to quit the tour, I call partial bulls**t on the former and total bulls**t on the latter. I have no problem believing he butted heads with Melinda, but by Mike's own words it wasn't really the actual reason he ended the reunion. Similarly, I suppose it's an interesting factoid to know that Mike *threatened* to quit the tour on at least two occasions, but it's only interesting to the point that you realize it was a totally empty threat. That Mike *doesn't* have the humility to point out that he was just full of bluster and would have likely been sued into oblivion had he quit, is disappointing.

His explanations are always full of contradictions. He says he wanted to write with Brian and work with Brian, but then goes into plenty of detail about how Brian was out of it during C50.

This is a point I'm going to make in my larger write-up, but I think the way Mike appears so *surprised* by Brian's good days and bad days during C50 speaks to out of touch Mike was and is with Brian and how little Mike actually knows Brian. Any fan that had followed Brian for the previous 10-15 years could have told you that's how Brian is. Mike seems utterly flabbergasted that Brian's energy and attention wax and wane. That, or Mike's just pretending to be surprised.

And the fact that Mike never discusses any of the other members during the C50 chapter is less problematic in and of itself, and more a case of speaking to the larger issue: In my opinion, when Mike thinks about C50 or talks about it, he doesn't think about the band or the music. He thinks seemingly almost exclusively about Melinda.
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« Reply #312 on: September 21, 2016, 12:41:04 PM »

I beg to differ.  I think it does seem to go into more detail than any interviews I've seen from him since the end.  He may offer up some of the same reasons but to my knowledge he never once mentioned Melinda specifically or any strife with her until the book came out.  Also, I hadn't seen him say that he was ready to quit the tour as he did in the book.  If you are looking for Mike to come out and say, "I just wanted to be the boss of the entire operation again," that isn't going to happen.  So we get the same reasons he gave before and then mentions the issues with Melinda.  Bottom line, he was never going to be THE boss working with Brian as long as Melinda was around.  

HJ- I believe you mentioned before that you would like for a band member or someone else to write a detailed look into C50.  I personally would love that too.  However, I'm actually surprised we got as much as we did from Mike about it and I actually don't have too much faith that we will get much of anything from Brian on the subject in his autobiography.  I hope he surprises me.

The book certainly offers a bit more raw information from Mike's perspective on C50. But it does nothing to further the "why" question. And in the case of  "new" stories about Melinda and Mike threatening to quit the tour, I call partial bulls**t on the former and total bulls**t on the latter. I have no problem believing he butted heads with Melinda, but by Mike's own words it wasn't really the actual reason he ended the reunion. Similarly, I suppose it's an interesting factoid to know that Mike *threatened* to quit the tour on at least two occasions, but it's only interesting to the point that you realize it was a totally empty threat. That Mike *doesn't* have the humility to point out that he was just full of bluster and would have sued into oblivion had he quit, is disappointing.

His explanations are always full of contradictions. He says he wanted to write with Brian and work with Brian, but then goes into plenty of detail about how Brian was out of it during C50.

This is a point I'm going to make in my larger write-up, but I think the way Mike appears so *surprised* by Brian's good days and bad days during C50 speaks to out of touch Mike was and is with Brian and how little Mike actually knows Brian. Any fan that had followed Brian for the previous 10-15 years could have told you that's how Brian is. Mike seems utterly flabbergasted that Brian's energy and attention wax and wane. That, or Mike's just pretending to be surprised.

Regardless of the reason(s) that caused Mike to not realize, accept, and be pubicly understanding of Brian having good/bad days, it makes Mike come off as having a staggering lack of empathy... and that's a big reason why he's vilified.  If I didn't know better, I'd almost think that Mike believes Brian is faking everything, because I'd think a family member would be publicly more respectful in this situation.

You know the way Jack Rieley came along stating he had an itemized plan on how to rehab The BBs' public image? Has Mike himself never been offered such a plan by someone? He could surely use it. I'm sure Brian's indecisiveness must be frustrating for Mike, but a little public empathy for Brian's situation by Mike would go a long way.
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« Reply #313 on: September 21, 2016, 12:47:25 PM »

I think one of the underlying themes I see is that Mike just doesn't know Brian well anymore, and hasn't had much interaction with him in decades. I don't expect him then to know a lot of things about how Brian is now. But he seems determined to believe Brian should just be however Mike thinks he should be, that he should be how he was decades ago when Mike remembers him.

Is anybody asking or expecting Mike to be just the way he was 30 or 40 or 50 years ago?

Imagine someone running into a friend they haven't seen much in a decade or two and just expecting them to be the same. This is basic human interaction stuff we're talking about. A similar thread was found in one of those David Beard "articles" last year, the idea that Brian just isn't the same as he was 50 years ago, as if anybody should be. It's crazy, and frankly insulting.

I do think there is potentially a true human emotional aspect to the idea/theory that Mike doesn't want to admit to himself (or anyone else) that he isn't close to Brian anymore and doesn't know Brian well anymore, that he isn't Brian's "partner" anymore. I think Mike holds on to his own personally crafted idea of Brian more than anything else.
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« Reply #314 on: September 21, 2016, 12:59:40 PM »

I have not gotten to the chapter on C50 yet, but I did skip ahead to read the account of what happened with Melinda over SOS and did see the interview with Mike where he addresses the same issue.  Regardless of who Melinda said it to or who she claimed she was partners with, the fact of the matter was and still is Melinda Wilson will always be a problem for Mike and vice versa.  The two don't like each other, plain and simple.  This was far from the only dust up involving them around this time.  I've heard another story straight from one of the principals regarding a meeting that took place between Melinda and Mike (Brian was not present, but some other band members were along with Jackie Love) that ended ugly.  I could certainly take the position that Melinda is only looking out for what she believes is her husband's best interest.  Obviously, Mike is going to be looking out for his best interest.  It's amazing the whole thing went as long as it did. 
There were posters on this board who were hoping that Mike would address C50 in his book.  Well, he did and now it seems it isn't good enough and we need more follow up and clarification from him.  Why is no one hoping that Brian addresses C50 in his book, so we get to hear his side?  I personally would love to hear what he has to say about it.  We got Mike's recollections and views, so I would love to hear Brian's.
And to address the differences in how the wives are involved, I think urbanite was somewhat close.  Jackie is definitely involved from a business/money perspective.  She does not act as the band's manager/her husband's manager or their tour manager.  However, she certainly has influence but Mike does make his own decisions. Melinda is much more involved and I think due to the personal feelings involved, Mike will never get over that and has a very difficult time dealing with someone he doesn't like.  I'm sure in his head he truly believes that Melinda is keeping Brian from him.  Honestly the only thing that can happen at this point is for Brian to call Mike directly and say "I never want to work with you again."  That may finally be the end and life can go on for everyone.

I'm thinking even the final scenario you presented wouldn't work.  He could very well think Melinda "made Brian do it" even if she weren't on the same continent.  It's not a new thing for her to be blamed for most anything, whether it's logical or not.

As far as the extent of Jacqueline's role in Mike's business, I'm thinking we don't know.  I'm not challenging your assumptions.  I simply think none of us has a clue.
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« Reply #315 on: September 21, 2016, 01:52:29 PM »

I agree, Debbie
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« Reply #316 on: September 21, 2016, 03:01:58 PM »

Somewhere I have an print interview where a group member, perhaps Dennis, jokes that The Beach Boys are " unmanageable". Nothing has changed 35 years later.
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« Reply #317 on: September 21, 2016, 03:15:57 PM »

Somewhere I have an print interview where a group member, perhaps Dennis, jokes that The Beach Boys are " unmanageable". Nothing has changed 35 years later.

Let's be honest here. Is it really "The Beach Boys" that are so unmanageable, and so problematic, or really mainly one member being a stick in the mud?  
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« Reply #318 on: September 21, 2016, 03:33:13 PM »

I dunno...after a certain point, it seemed like none of them could agree on anything.
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« Reply #319 on: September 21, 2016, 04:04:47 PM »

It's all of them
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« Reply #320 on: September 21, 2016, 04:15:16 PM »

It's all of them

I'm of the opinion that it's very much a specific thing about the chemistry/politics/dysfunction of the exact group of people. Yes they may *all* be difficult in their own ways, absolutely. But if you alter that chemistry, and add or take out one person, it can change the WHOLE shebang. Just look at the effect Carl's absence had on the group. The inverse of that is that I think one person can bring a certain level of unmanageable dysfunction to the equation, which would otherwise be manageable (not necessarily fully peaceful in every way, but *manageable*) in their absence.

I believe that to be true in 2016, as well as in the year Denny said it (obviously it was even more complicated then though).
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« Reply #321 on: September 21, 2016, 04:29:07 PM »

Somewhere I have an print interview where a group member, perhaps Dennis, jokes that The Beach Boys are " unmanageable". Nothing has changed 35 years later.

Let's be honest here. Is it really "The Beach Boys" that are so unmanageable, and so problematic, or really mainly one member being a stick in the mud?  

Well keep in mind the group and events in 80-81.
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« Reply #322 on: September 21, 2016, 04:58:29 PM »



I agree that Brian certainly is healthier and better than days gone by.  With the exception of Lucky Old Sun and Orange Crate Art, his albums have been mediocre.  I don't believe he produced TWGMTR, Joe Thomas probably did.
I disagree. 
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« Reply #323 on: September 21, 2016, 05:04:12 PM »

Somewhere I have an print interview where a group member, perhaps Dennis, jokes that The Beach Boys are " unmanageable". Nothing has changed 35 years later.

Let's be honest here. Is it really "The Beach Boys" that are so unmanageable, and so problematic, or really mainly one member being a stick in the mud?  

Well keep in mind the group and events in 80-81.

During some eras, the unmanagebility certainly was contagious. That much I'll certainly agree. 
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« Reply #324 on: September 21, 2016, 05:15:51 PM »



I agree that Brian certainly is healthier and better than days gone by.  With the exception of Lucky Old Sun and Orange Crate Art, his albums have been mediocre.  I don't believe he produced TWGMTR, Joe Thomas probably did.
I disagree. 

I disagree as well.  I've heard that Brian worked very hard in the studio on TMGMTR and NPP, from people who would actually know. There have long been rumors that TLOS was the work of others - pure crap.  Hopefully there may be an archive related to this from Ray Lawlor as he was at those sessions, and was well aware of all that Brian composed before he worked with Scott.  But people love to diminish Brian for some reason.  I guess it's a popular rumor.
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