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Author Topic: Thread for arguments with or about moderation  (Read 95982 times)
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guitarfool2002
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« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2016, 08:37:15 PM »

Well all of it, really...all of it should go here, and probably should have in the first place, but can't change that now. And speaking strictly for myself, it's not that it became a major issue when you were accused, it's more of a 'oh God, not this again'. Frankly speaking, some of the posts also made it seem like I'm not doing anything, or that I have no say in anything (which is bullshit), and I got tired of seeing that, too. So yeah, all of it can go here, and I'll be pleased as punch if it never shows up in any other thread again.

Just my two cents.
Billy, it got restarted in there by Craig, not any of us. He had to answer for his buddy Debbie, instead of letting her answer for herself. Then she had to defend him from the Conspirators. No one brought that up but Craig. I'm sorry Billy, but Craig doesn't take criticism very well, whether for his personal views or those of being a mod. The biggest difference between the two of you is that, Billy, you know when you have to take a neutral stance when you do your moderating duties, where Craig will take sides and fight. I will tell you, this is why some folks think he is biased towards some posters and unbiased with others. He is too polarizing a figure to have everybody on board with him moderating. As you can see, I am not the only one bringing this stuff up. People who rarely ever say anything, are having issues with his moderating. When feuds break out, no matter your personal preference a moderator needs to step in to get things under control, not jump into the fray. Folks see that and question what is going on. It may all be a perception problem, but if it lingers, it will continue to be a problem that won't go away easily.

Longtime lurker, extremely infrequent poster. Just had to say, while it may not be popular to say it out loud, I agree with you Dr BeachBoy and it took guts to say it, though Im sure you'll get flak for doing so.

GF, you seem like a nice guy overall, so I dont want this to sound like bullying, personal attacks or ganging up on you. But I think you do tend to take things too personally and fan the flames rather than put them out when a mod ought to do the latter. If you were more willing to take criticisms, listen, not come down hard against those you disagree with and stay out of the petty feuds I think you and other posters would be much happier. And no offense, but the way you just responded to Dr Beach Boy just now kinda proves that point. I know my opinion around here means jack squat but...I digress.

Now *this* is the part of moderating a board, any board, that sucks.

Do you want to tell them or should I explain it instead?

I dont think I said anything mean spirited, out of line, or unwarranted in my post. I didnt even call for you to step down or call you a bad mod. I merely pointed out some issues Ive had and others too, with your style of moderation I think could be improved. And since any criticism of the mods here is usually shot down regardless of what it is, I thought DrBB deserved a fist bump for at least having the balls to say it and stick to his guns when others give him a hard time for it. I think youd do well to listen to constructive criticisms more than just get defensive and angry with people. Thats so of all people of all jobs and walks of life.

This on a board where no one else is held to a similar standard?

I have listened to constructive criticisms and replied to them, but I refuse to be called to task for things I didn't do, for things other mods share equal responsibility for and have for a decade while I'm being singled out after a campaign to get a replacement for me failed, and I will not allow campaigns designed to dismiss or diminish me to fester especially if they're based on false information.

I ask again, do you want to step up or should I explain what's going on so everyone is getting the right version of events?
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« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2016, 08:47:43 PM »

No one else is a mod tho.

Not sure what you mean by "step up" but I think youd do yourself a lot of favors if you maybe just explained your side of the story (whatever that is) ONCE in a big comprehensive post and then maybe just refered people there, to that URL, anytime you see them misinformed. And debate with anyone who spreads misinformation to that thread to discuss it. But repeatedly going after people in threads, dismissing all criticisms with "you wanna step up?"/"well how do you think the board should be run, are we gonna ban people for XYZ" type personal challenges or throwing responsibility for decision making unto the posters, making it an all or nothing 'either we do nothing or bad everyone' dichotomy just doesnt help the situation and isnt the decorum a mod ought to have. Your aggressive reactions in situations like this very thread to pretty mild criticisms/suggestions is proof that youre a little too thin skinned and quick to attack for many people's liking as a mod. Im friends with a few people who post here outside the board who've said the same to me in confidence. Im not saying all this to be mean, its just an appeal to you for your own sake to maybe relax a little bit. I think itd be good for you personally and the board as a whole.
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« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2016, 09:01:03 PM »

No one else is a mod tho.

Not sure what you mean by "step up" but I think youd do yourself a lot of favors if you maybe just explained your side of the story (whatever that is) ONCE in a big comprehensive post and then maybe just refered people there, to that URL, anytime you see them misinformed. And debate with anyone who spreads misinformation to that thread to discuss it. But repeatedly going after people in threads, dismissing all criticisms with "you wanna step up?"/"well how do you think the board should be run, are we gonna ban people for XYZ" type personal challenges or throwing responsibility for decision making unto the posters, making it an all or nothing 'either we do nothing or bad everyone' dichotomy just doesnt help the situation and isnt the decorum a mod ought to have. Your aggressive reactions in situations like this very thread to pretty mild criticisms/suggestions is proof that youre a little too thin skinned and quick to attack for many people's liking as a mod. Im friends with a few people who post here outside the board who've said the same to me in confidence. Im not saying all this to be mean, its just an appeal to you for your own sake to maybe relax a little bit. I think itd be good for you personally and the board as a whole.

A little honesty would be a nice gesture too. In recent months you posted "you are all a bunch of idiots" after Andrew was banned. Prior to that you did indeed publicly call for me to step down as a mod, then later apologized to me for being a part of all the stuff that went down related to that. At no point did I ever disrespect you nor do anything outside normal discussions which would have made you so concerned about what I did or didn't do, in fact I was someone who reached out to you off the board because I dug a lot of what you were saying and didn't like to see what was going down.

And I already have repeatedly explained my side of the story, which is the same version Billy, Klaas, and Charles have been telling since December and earlier, yet it continues to fall on deaf ears and have absolutely no effect on those trying to accuse me of whatever they think I'm to blame for doing or not doing. I've done exactly what you suggested and nothing I have said, or at this point nothing Billy or the other mods/admins have said, has had any effect at all on those out to blame me for the problems on this forum.
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« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2016, 09:14:50 PM »

I'll add another layer to this. I went back and did a rough estimate of what exactly I've been involved in doing on this forum since I'm being singled out as the reason why things supposedly went to hell.

In the last 6 months, I've contributed to roughly 20 threads. of those 20, several were Sandbox topics like the cat pictures and conspiracy theories. Of the remaining ones, several were threads I started which were either links to or copy-and-paste posts of interviews from magazines or online articles. Further out of the remaining ones, the topics were all specific to what I either know best or am most interested in discussing, i.e. the Smile era, legal issues, or topics loosely centered around those including music and guitar stuff.

So out of roughly 500 topics posted in the "On Topic" main board in the last 6 months, I was personally involved in or posted to less than 20. That equals around 5% of all the topics posted in the last 6 months on the main forum which had any involvement from me.

And I'm the one to blame for the board's issues?
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« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2016, 10:12:44 PM »

I've been told by someone that several insiders now stay away from this board because they consider GF to be a bad mod.
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« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2016, 10:17:10 PM »

I've been told by someone that several insiders now stay away from this board because they consider GF to be a bad mod.

I've been told things about several insiders too. We should compare notes.

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« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2016, 10:36:51 PM »

No one else is a mod tho.

Not sure what you mean by "step up" but I think youd do yourself a lot of favors if you maybe just explained your side of the story (whatever that is) ONCE in a big comprehensive post and then maybe just refered people there, to that URL, anytime you see them misinformed. And debate with anyone who spreads misinformation to that thread to discuss it. But repeatedly going after people in threads, dismissing all criticisms with "you wanna step up?"/"well how do you think the board should be run, are we gonna ban people for XYZ" type personal challenges or throwing responsibility for decision making unto the posters, making it an all or nothing 'either we do nothing or bad everyone' dichotomy just doesnt help the situation and isnt the decorum a mod ought to have. Your aggressive reactions in situations like this very thread to pretty mild criticisms/suggestions is proof that youre a little too thin skinned and quick to attack for many people's liking as a mod. Im friends with a few people who post here outside the board who've said the same to me in confidence. Im not saying all this to be mean, its just an appeal to you for your own sake to maybe relax a little bit. I think itd be good for you personally and the board as a whole.

A little honesty would be a nice gesture too. In recent months you posted "you are all a bunch of idiots" after Andrew was banned. Prior to that you did indeed publicly call for me to step down as a mod, then later apologized to me for being a part of all the stuff that went down related to that. At no point did I ever disrespect you nor do anything outside normal discussions which would have made you so concerned about what I did or didn't do, in fact I was someone who reached out to you off the board because I dug a lot of what you were saying and didn't like to see what was going down.

And I already have repeatedly explained my side of the story, which is the same version Billy, Klaas, and Charles have been telling since December and earlier, yet it continues to fall on deaf ears and have absolutely no effect on those trying to accuse me of whatever they think I'm to blame for doing or not doing. I've done exactly what you suggested and nothing I have said, or at this point nothing Billy or the other mods/admins have said, has had any effect at all on those out to blame me for the problems on this forum.

Yes, I did. It was half a joke, and half "outsider gives a reality check." If it actually hurt yours or anyone elses feelings Im truly sorry. I just thought the whole situation was ridiculous and felt someone ought to say so in a brutally honest humorous way.

Ive never said I wanted you to step down. Not sure where thats coming from. Or what you mean saying you reached out to me. We've never conversed, and I only started posting here a bit ago, and only do so infrequently. I have little to add most of the time, and frankly the way some threads go Id rather not get involved much of the time.

If thats so, why not just direct people to the posts where you earlier discussed it then? Maybe have that in your signature? Just constantly going down in the muck tho isnt becoming of a mod. It makes you look like a scrapper when a mod ought to be neutral and above that kinda thing.

I never said youre to blame for the state of things. But I know personally I do take issue with a few of your methods, as do others. Im just giving you a bit of advice what you could do to improve the perception you carry here. Emily and Dr BB have done likewise. You could either listen and learn or get defensive, make post after post arguing about it, and ironically proving the legitimacy of said criticisms. Id hope youd choose the former but I guess not.
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« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2016, 10:44:18 PM »

I've been told by someone that several insiders now stay away from this board because they consider GF to be a bad mod.

I've been told things about several insiders too. We should compare notes.


Are these insiders moderating a BB's msg board?
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« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2016, 11:05:35 PM »

I've been told by someone that several insiders now stay away from this board because they consider GF to be a bad mod.

I've been told things about several insiders too. We should compare notes.


Are these insiders moderating a BB's msg board?

No, doing other things insiders do.

What I would like to bring up is something a few of us mod types were kicking around in conversation, just loose talk and idle chatter like workers grabbing a soda and snack in the break room during a long shift.

Some things came up in those chats like which of the newer registered members could be "Mike's Beard", who had been banned in late December and then bragged on the Hoffman board prior to it being locked down how he managed to evade the ban, re-register on this forum under a new account and alias, and use IP masking tools in order to get back in under the ban.

It was kicked around, just casual conversation, no big deal.

You wouldn't happen to have any opinions on that, would you Mike's Beard... oops, I meant opinions on Mike's Beard, would you? Sorry for the slip of the tongue.

Just asking. Grin
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guitarfool2002
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« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2016, 11:07:12 PM »

No one else is a mod tho.

Not sure what you mean by "step up" but I think youd do yourself a lot of favors if you maybe just explained your side of the story (whatever that is) ONCE in a big comprehensive post and then maybe just refered people there, to that URL, anytime you see them misinformed. And debate with anyone who spreads misinformation to that thread to discuss it. But repeatedly going after people in threads, dismissing all criticisms with "you wanna step up?"/"well how do you think the board should be run, are we gonna ban people for XYZ" type personal challenges or throwing responsibility for decision making unto the posters, making it an all or nothing 'either we do nothing or bad everyone' dichotomy just doesnt help the situation and isnt the decorum a mod ought to have. Your aggressive reactions in situations like this very thread to pretty mild criticisms/suggestions is proof that youre a little too thin skinned and quick to attack for many people's liking as a mod. Im friends with a few people who post here outside the board who've said the same to me in confidence. Im not saying all this to be mean, its just an appeal to you for your own sake to maybe relax a little bit. I think itd be good for you personally and the board as a whole.

A little honesty would be a nice gesture too. In recent months you posted "you are all a bunch of idiots" after Andrew was banned. Prior to that you did indeed publicly call for me to step down as a mod, then later apologized to me for being a part of all the stuff that went down related to that. At no point did I ever disrespect you nor do anything outside normal discussions which would have made you so concerned about what I did or didn't do, in fact I was someone who reached out to you off the board because I dug a lot of what you were saying and didn't like to see what was going down.

And I already have repeatedly explained my side of the story, which is the same version Billy, Klaas, and Charles have been telling since December and earlier, yet it continues to fall on deaf ears and have absolutely no effect on those trying to accuse me of whatever they think I'm to blame for doing or not doing. I've done exactly what you suggested and nothing I have said, or at this point nothing Billy or the other mods/admins have said, has had any effect at all on those out to blame me for the problems on this forum.

Yes, I did. It was half a joke, and half "outsider gives a reality check." If it actually hurt yours or anyone elses feelings Im truly sorry. I just thought the whole situation was ridiculous and felt someone ought to say so in a brutally honest humorous way.

Ive never said I wanted you to step down. Not sure where thats coming from. Or what you mean saying you reached out to me. We've never conversed, and I only started posting here a bit ago, and only do so infrequently. I have little to add most of the time, and frankly the way some threads go Id rather not get involved much of the time.

If thats so, why not just direct people to the posts where you earlier discussed it then? Maybe have that in your signature? Just constantly going down in the muck tho isnt becoming of a mod. It makes you look like a scrapper when a mod ought to be neutral and above that kinda thing.

I never said youre to blame for the state of things. But I know personally I do take issue with a few of your methods, as do others. Im just giving you a bit of advice what you could do to improve the perception you carry here. Emily and Dr BB have done likewise. You could either listen and learn or get defensive, make post after post arguing about it, and ironically proving the legitimacy of said criticisms. Id hope youd choose the former but I guess not.

Really? I mean, it's disappointing enough but none of this is what I expected. It's one thing to be lied about, it's worse to be lied to.
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« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2016, 11:12:49 PM »

GF, you seem like a nice guy overall, so I dont want this to sound like bullying, personal attacks or ganging up on you. But I think you do tend to take things too personally and fan the flames rather than put them out when a mod ought to do the latter. If you were more willing to take criticisms, listen, not come down hard against those you disagree with and stay out of the petty feuds I think you and other posters would be much happier. And no offense, but the way you just responded to Dr Beach Boy just now kinda proves that point. I know my opinion around here means jack squat but...I digress.

THIS.

That is pretty much exactly how I've been feeling!
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« Reply #36 on: May 22, 2016, 11:15:27 PM »

Im not sure what youre going for, but whatever it is, have fun. I spoke my peace and was trying to politely point out something you might try doing to quell the concerns other posters have. Its your decision whether to listen or not. Its things like this, disagreements or friendly criticisms turning into annoying back and forth or in this case, I dont even know what, which is why I usually dont post in the first place. Again, thats not to pin everything on you, but its worth noting that as a mod you are an authority figure and your behavior sets an example for others to follow.
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« Reply #37 on: May 22, 2016, 11:19:01 PM »

Im not sure what youre going for, but whatever it is, have fun. I spoke my peace and was trying to politely point out something you might try doing to quell the concerns other posters have. Its your decision whether to listen or not. Its things like this, disagreements or friendly criticisms turning into annoying back and forth or in this case, I dont even know what, which is why I usually dont post in the first place. Again, thats not to pin everything on you, but its worth noting that as a mod you are an authority figure and your behavior sets an example for others to follow.

Seriously, just be cool and come clean and let the chips fall as they may. Unless someone managed to hack into an existing active account, change the name, and start posting completely unbeknownst to that original poster who might have no idea what's going on, it's not right nor is it honest to keep this going any longer.
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« Reply #38 on: May 22, 2016, 11:28:59 PM »

Last post, because I never expected this to go on for so long, I just had a quick pointer I thought Id make, and hey Im willing to admit fault, perhaps it would have been better to send it in a private message. If its embarrassing to be called out in public I apologize but I didnt think it would come off that way. But seriously, can you not see how lame this looks? A member, very politely, points out a few issues some may have (and do, quite frankly) with the way you come off. Rather than take the advice, or at least even making a show of being appreciative but then going on your way, or asking the board how they feel...you get very defensive and now accusatory. Over something that wasnt intended as, and didnt need to be, a big deal. And this is ironically what the issue was in the first place. You basically just proved DrBB's criticisms had merit in this thread.

Anyway, maybe Ill go back to lurking and leave you to your business. I personally dont care what you do I just meant to help you out.
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« Reply #39 on: May 22, 2016, 11:33:19 PM »

I've been told by someone that several insiders now stay away from this board because they consider GF to be a bad mod.

I've been told things about several insiders too. We should compare notes.


Are these insiders moderating a BB's msg board?

No, doing other things insiders do.

What I would like to bring up is something a few of us mod types were kicking around in conversation, just loose talk and idle chatter like workers grabbing a soda and snack in the break room during a long shift.

Some things came up in those chats like which of the newer registered members could be "Mike's Beard", who had been banned in late December and then bragged on the Hoffman board prior to it being locked down how he managed to evade the ban, re-register on this forum under a new account and alias, and use IP masking tools in order to get back in under the ban.

It was kicked around, just casual conversation, no big deal.

You wouldn't happen to have any opinions on that, would you Mike's Beard... oops, I meant opinions on Mike's Beard, would you? Sorry for the slip of the tongue.

Just asking. Grin
#1- I'm not whoever this mike's beard guy is.
#2 - Whatever you may or may not know about insiders has nothing to do with the word that you have driven some of them away from this board.
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« Reply #40 on: May 22, 2016, 11:33:24 PM »

Last post, because I never expected this to go on for so long, I just had a quick pointer I thought Id make, and hey Im willing to admit fault, perhaps it would have been better to send it in a private message. If its embarrassing to be called out in public I apologize but I didnt think it would come off that way. But seriously, can you not see how lame this looks? A member, very politely, points out a few issues some may have (and do, quite frankly) with the way you come off. Rather than take the advice, or at least even making a show of being appreciative but then going on your way, or asking the board how they feel...you get very defensive and now accusatory. Over something that wasnt intended as, and didnt need to be, a big deal. And this is ironically what the issue was in the first place. You basically just proved DrBB's criticisms had merit in this thread.

Anyway, maybe Ill go back to lurking and leave you to your business. I personally dont care what you do I just meant to help you out.

I'll take criticism and help but not from someone who isn't being honest about the most basic things like who they really are. I'm genuinely sad it had to reach this point and I hoped it wouldn't.
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« Reply #41 on: May 22, 2016, 11:40:34 PM »

I've been told by someone that several insiders now stay away from this board because they consider GF to be a bad mod.

I've been told things about several insiders too. We should compare notes.


Are these insiders moderating a BB's msg board?

No, doing other things insiders do.

What I would like to bring up is something a few of us mod types were kicking around in conversation, just loose talk and idle chatter like workers grabbing a soda and snack in the break room during a long shift.

Some things came up in those chats like which of the newer registered members could be "Mike's Beard", who had been banned in late December and then bragged on the Hoffman board prior to it being locked down how he managed to evade the ban, re-register on this forum under a new account and alias, and use IP masking tools in order to get back in under the ban.

It was kicked around, just casual conversation, no big deal.

You wouldn't happen to have any opinions on that, would you Mike's Beard... oops, I meant opinions on Mike's Beard, would you? Sorry for the slip of the tongue.

Just asking. Grin
#1- I'm not whoever this mike's beard guy is.
#2 - Whatever you may or may not know about insiders has nothing to do with the word that you have driven some of them away from this board.

#1...Really? Check this out:

Mike's hangup is that after finally getting his due from songs Brian chose not to credit him on years ago, he now has to listen to people claim that he 'stole' credits from Brian. Reguardless of how mentally ill somebody is, cheating someone is still cheating.

Enough to warrant a co-credit? Doubtful. But clearly Murry was performing producer duties unoffically on those early sessions, reguardless of whether he was asked to or not.

Rieley was a godsend in turning their image around and a valued collaborator and I would have kept him on in that capacity reguardless, but there's no way I would have allowed him to handle my finances once his lies came out.*





*Yeah, Steve Love, I know.


Spellchecking could have prevented this. Nice try, though Mike's Beard. Only person on the board who misspelled "regardless", under two different accounts.

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« Reply #42 on: May 22, 2016, 11:44:58 PM »

Now onto the work of moderating this board...according to the rules just revised as of May 4th, #10:

Thanks for visiting the Smiley Smile message board. Here are a few guidelines to help everything run smoothly:

10). Creation of multiple accounts to avoid a suspension, or to spam or troll the board, will result in an immediate life-time ban




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« Reply #43 on: May 22, 2016, 11:45:56 PM »

I misspell a word and this makes me someone else??
Maybe you should post that in the conspiracies thread.
This has gone beyond the bizarre.
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« Reply #44 on: May 22, 2016, 11:46:22 PM »

I misspell a word and this makes me someone else??
Maybe you should post that in the conspiracies thread.
This has gone beyond the bizarre.

It certainly has.
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« Reply #45 on: May 22, 2016, 11:53:38 PM »

Once last word before I bid you all farewell.
Craig, you are the most overbearing, blowhard, bellend I have ever come across.
Debbie, Brian dumped your saggy ass decades ago- move on.
Rab, NPP is still a big steaming pile of dogshit.
Billy, have fun in your sheltered accomodation, loser.

See you all under my next alias
MB.
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« Reply #46 on: May 22, 2016, 11:54:27 PM »

Once last word before I bid you all farewell.
Craig, you are the most overbearing, blowhard, bellend I have ever come across.
Debbie, Brian dumped your saggy ass decades ago- move on.
Rab, NPP is still a big steaming pile of dogshit.
Billy, have fun in your sheltered accomodation, loser.

See you all under my next alias
MB.

And this is what mods have to deal with.
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"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
ZenobiaUnchained
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« Reply #47 on: May 23, 2016, 12:08:14 AM »

Once last word before I bid you all farewell.
Craig, you are the most overbearing, blowhard, bellend I have ever come across.
Debbie, Brian dumped your saggy ass decades ago- move on.
Rab, NPP is still a big steaming pile of dogshit.
Billy, have fun in your sheltered accomodation, loser.

See you all under my next alias
MB.

Someone was gonna say it: "thank f*** he didn't mention me!"
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Zenobia>Cleopatra
Emily
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« Reply #48 on: May 23, 2016, 12:11:38 AM »

Once last word before I bid you all farewell.
Craig, you are the most overbearing, blowhard, bellend I have ever come across.
Debbie, Brian dumped your saggy ass decades ago- move on.
Rab, NPP is still a big steaming pile of dogshit.
Billy, have fun in your sheltered accomodation, loser.

See you all under my next alias
MB.

Someone was gonna say it: "thank f*** he didn't mention me!"
Haha.
Well, that was dramatic.
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♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇
The Dr. of Wilsonomics
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« Reply #49 on: May 23, 2016, 12:30:52 AM »

Adam Densborough strikes again.

And that, my friends,  is why Mike's Beard was banned in the first place
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Crowd: “Yes, we’re all individuals!”
Individual: “I’m not!”

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