gfxgfx
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
logo
 
gfx gfx
gfx
669555 Posts in 26944 Topics by 3920 Members - Latest Member: MPLRecords June 23, 2021, 05:20:45 PM
*
gfx*HomeHelpSearchCalendarLoginRegistergfx
gfxgfx
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.       « previous next »
Pages: [1] Go Down Print
Author Topic: Alone On Christmas Day (Single) - Question re: writing credit...  (Read 2605 times)
Empire Of Love
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 573



View Profile WWW
« on: January 22, 2016, 08:17:20 PM »

I was looking at photos of the new Phoenix single today and noticed that the writing credit on the label lists only Mike Love.  Here are the links:

https://kontrabandstor.es/media/catalog/product/cache/70/image/960x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/u/n/unnamed-1.jpg
http://images.junostatic.com/full/CS595721-01B-BIG.jpg

As I remembered someone on this website suggesting/stating that the song had a co-write.  I dug up the thread and found that the co-writer named was Ron Altbach.  Both Wikipedia and Mike's own website confirm the co-write:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alone_on_Christmas_Day
http://www.mikelove.com/ (right now the front page features the single and the accompanying article states that Ron Altbach helped write the song)

Does anyone know why Ron does not receive a co-writing credit?

EoL
Logged

Cam Mott
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4171


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2016, 08:20:57 PM »

Murry?
Logged

"Bring me the head of Carmen Sandiego" Lynne "The Chief" Thigpen
Empire Of Love
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 573



View Profile WWW
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2016, 08:26:01 PM »

Murry?

Murry's reach extended beyond the grave...
Logged

Empire Of Love
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 573



View Profile WWW
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2016, 07:28:42 PM »

Other than Cam's suggestion that a dead Murry Wilson is the reason Altbach did not get a writing credit for this song, does anyone else have any idea as to how/why this happened?  Anyone?  Bueller?

EoL
Logged

Cam Mott
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4171


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2016, 08:06:00 PM »

Other than Cam's suggestion that a dead Murry Wilson is the reason Altbach did not get a writing credit for this song, does anyone else have any idea as to how/why this happened?  Anyone?  Bueller?

EoL

Since you didn't appreciate my joke, have you considered asking Phoenix?
Logged

"Bring me the head of Carmen Sandiego" Lynne "The Chief" Thigpen
Empire Of Love
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 573



View Profile WWW
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2016, 08:09:46 PM »

I've no email addy for them, and was hoping either you or Andrew would kindly ring Mike and ask him for me.  Smiley

EoL
Logged

Cam Mott
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4171


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2016, 08:30:12 PM »

I've no email addy for them, and was hoping either you or Andrew would kindly ring Mike and ask him for me.  Smiley

EoL

Phoenix is also on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram.  Good luck.
Logged

"Bring me the head of Carmen Sandiego" Lynne "The Chief" Thigpen
The_Beach
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 430


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2016, 07:19:14 AM »

Yeah your right it was both of them and not just Mike Love it was in an interview with Mike and he even said ithimself!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DSFn2ZU6q0
Logged
HeyJude
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 9278



View Profile WWW
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2016, 08:10:29 AM »

Can anyone who bought Mike's recorded version from iTunes or Amazon check that "meta data" or whatever it's called and see who it credits for the writing? I don't think there's a way to access that meta data by just looking at the Amazon or iTunes web page listings.

If I had to guess, I would doubt that the "Phoenix" band was given a correct Love/Altbach credit and just forgot to put Altbach's name on it. I'm guessing they used the information they were given. 
Logged

THE BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE IS ON FACEBOOK!!! http://www.facebook.com/beachboysopinion - Check out the original "BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE" Blog - http://beachboysopinion.blogspot.com/
AndrewHickey
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1999



View Profile
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2016, 09:00:52 AM »

BMI appear to have the song registered in only Mike's name -- http://repertoire.bmi.com/TitleSearch.asp?querytype=WorkName&page=1&fromrow=1&torow=25&keyname=Alone%20on%20Christmas%20Day&blnWriter=True&blnPublisher=True&blnArtist=True&blnAltTitles=True
Altbach appears to be registered with ASCAP but not BMI, and ASCAP have no record of the title at all.
Logged

The Smiley Smile ignore function: http://andrewhickey.info/the-smiley-smile-ignore-button-sort-of/
Most recent update 03/12/15
Cam Mott
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4171


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2016, 09:23:13 AM »

BMI appear to have the song registered in only Mike's name -- http://repertoire.bmi.com/TitleSearch.asp?querytype=WorkName&page=1&fromrow=1&torow=25&keyname=Alone%20on%20Christmas%20Day&blnWriter=True&blnPublisher=True&blnArtist=True&blnAltTitles=True
Altbach appears to be registered with ASCAP but not BMI, and ASCAP have no record of the title at all.

Is that registration by the artist Phoenix?
Logged

"Bring me the head of Carmen Sandiego" Lynne "The Chief" Thigpen
AndrewHickey
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1999



View Profile
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2016, 09:52:16 AM »

BMI appear to have the song registered in only Mike's name -- http://repertoire.bmi.com/TitleSearch.asp?querytype=WorkName&page=1&fromrow=1&torow=25&keyname=Alone%20on%20Christmas%20Day&blnWriter=True&blnPublisher=True&blnArtist=True&blnAltTitles=True
Altbach appears to be registered with ASCAP but not BMI, and ASCAP have no record of the title at all.

Is that registration by the artist Phoenix?

Songs are registered with BMI by their writers or publishers, not by performers (unless the performer is also the writer).
Logged

The Smiley Smile ignore function: http://andrewhickey.info/the-smiley-smile-ignore-button-sort-of/
Most recent update 03/12/15
Cam Mott
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4171


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2016, 09:59:06 AM »

BMI appear to have the song registered in only Mike's name -- http://repertoire.bmi.com/TitleSearch.asp?querytype=WorkName&page=1&fromrow=1&torow=25&keyname=Alone%20on%20Christmas%20Day&blnWriter=True&blnPublisher=True&blnArtist=True&blnAltTitles=True
Altbach appears to be registered with ASCAP but not BMI, and ASCAP have no record of the title at all.

Is that registration by the artist Phoenix?

Songs are registered with BMI by their writers or publishers, not by performers (unless the performer is also the writer).

Ah, thanks, I just noticed that Phoenix was listed as artist on the registration.  Obviously I'm not knowledgeable.
Logged

"Bring me the head of Carmen Sandiego" Lynne "The Chief" Thigpen
HeyJude
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 9278



View Profile WWW
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2016, 10:12:41 AM »

This song was probably kind of a slightly unique scenario in that it was an old song/recording, but evidently wasn’t copyrighted or published back circa 1977. So Phoenix was covering  a song that hadn’t yet been published (thus of course necessitating contacting Love, which led to him re-familiarizing himself with the song and eventually recording it himself as well).

My guess is that Phoenix recorded their version before Mike recorded his new version, since they were incorporating it into a TV special, etc. So I’m guessing the song had to be published and copyrighted first in order to facilitate Phoenix’s recording. That may explain notations referring to Phoenix, since they were the “first” artist to perform it upon being published.

As to why Altbach’s name isn’t on it, especially considering Mike referenced both contacting Altbach to find out who wrote it, and that they had written it together presumably, that of course isn’t clear. My best guess would be that Mike and Altbach reached some sort of agreement in that regard. It is curious though, considering Altbach *had* been credited on old Beach Boys/Celebration recordings.

I was similarly surprised when “Goin’ to the Beach” appeared with only a Mike songwriting credit. I suppose the “rehearsal” scenes in the “Going Platinum” TV special are both open to interpretation as far as songwriting (versus “arrangement”) and could have been “re-enacted” after the fact, but it certainly seemed like Brian was helping with the song’s musical structure.  
« Last Edit: January 26, 2016, 10:14:09 AM by HeyJude » Logged

THE BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE IS ON FACEBOOK!!! http://www.facebook.com/beachboysopinion - Check out the original "BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE" Blog - http://beachboysopinion.blogspot.com/
AndrewHickey
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1999



View Profile
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2016, 10:14:15 AM »

I do wonder about the lack of credit for Altbach, because it's not as if Mike is trying to hide Altbach's involvement in any way. The only thing I can think is to do with the way it's phrased on Mike's website: it "was originally written by Love with the help of classical pianist, Ron Altbach"
Depending on what precisely "with the help of" means, that *might* mean that Altbach wasn't a co-writer, but an assistant in some way, perhaps helping Mike to figure out the chords to a completed song or something. But it would then seem odd to mention his contribution at all...
It does seem odd. I hope Altbach gets any credit and royalties he deserves.
Logged

The Smiley Smile ignore function: http://andrewhickey.info/the-smiley-smile-ignore-button-sort-of/
Most recent update 03/12/15
AndrewHickey
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1999



View Profile
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2016, 10:16:22 AM »

My post crossed with HeyJude's, and yes, I suspect that Altbach's contribution may have been of the same kind as Brian's contributions to Going To The Beach, rather than say Altbach's contributions to She's Got Rhythm or Lady Lynda, where he wrote all the music.
Logged

The Smiley Smile ignore function: http://andrewhickey.info/the-smiley-smile-ignore-button-sort-of/
Most recent update 03/12/15
Niko
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1617



View Profile
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2016, 01:19:33 AM »

If Ron Altbach wrote part of the song, why hasn't he been credited?

And Cam, why would we reach out to Phoenix and likely get no response when at have someone on this board who can ask mike directly? Why would that not be the option before contacting Phoenix in twitter?
Logged

gfx
Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
gfx
Jump to:  
gfx
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Page created in 0.36 seconds with 22 queries.
Helios Multi design by Bloc
gfx
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!