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Poll
Question: Rate No Pier Pressure
5 - 17 (32.7%)
4 - 17 (32.7%)
3 - 9 (17.3%)
2 - 5 (9.6%)
1 - 3 (5.8%)
0 - 1 (1.9%)
Total Voters: 48

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 Go Down Print
Author Topic: No Pier Pressure  (Read 46388 times)
guitarfool2002
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« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2015, 12:32:02 PM »

You folks may need a reminder that an album review is not a scientific document, it is not a legal document, it is not a research paper, but it is an opinion piece that is equal parts personal experience, conjecture and, in my case anyway, a historical examination through the lens of a consumer. If everything I wrote was wrong, or slanderous, I would have been contacted long ago to make corrections or remove the article outright (believe me, managers, and particularly labels, are VERY quick to go after journos for negative reviews, even if they have no grounds for doing so. London electronic label Hyperdub threatened an editor of mine recently because I thought Jessy Lanza's EP contained "filler").

But of course, we never received anything like that from Capitol or Brian's team. Probably because they too knew the product was weak (if you think I wrote the sole harsh review please look again) and they knew there was nothing legally dubious about what I was saying.

And above all else, I would encourage you to have a sense of humor. Opinion pieces are meant to be provocative, album reviews are no exception. You can't review an album like Consumer Reports reviews a vacuum because music is ENTIRELY subjective, there is nothing more pompous than a dissection of a pop album that presents itself as anything but one dude/lady's opinion.

The Beach Boys are my favorite band, and they have been for a decade now. And if there's one thing I've learned about loving this group, and Brian, is that being a BBs fan is very frustrating. My review is a reflection of those frustrations, and in more general terms it's also about the complexities of fandom.

I commented on this thread originally to express my personal shock about how highly this album is thought of by fans, because in my listening experience, there isn't anything on NPP that resembles what has always attracted me to his music. I don't listen to BBs/BW to hear Kacey Musgraves, to hear autotuned vocals, or to hear disco (Didn't they learn ANYTHING from Here Comes Comes the Night???). I listen to hear Brian and, in regards to the Beach Boys, his brothers, cousin and friend. I hear way too little of Brian on NPP.


The issue is that you made statements in the review which were untrue yet you seemed to be suggesting they were factual in the context of your review (including the follow-up replies posted here), and some responding here know the statements are untrue and corrected them. If the review originally were simply whether you liked or disliked the album, and the reasons why, there would be no problems with that. People would either agree or disagree with the opinions you shared. But considering there are people who know the facts, and they've corrected what was wrong in your review (and posts here), why not accept that some of the statements you made as fact in the review were wrong and leave it at that?
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« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2015, 12:36:17 PM »

"But of course, we never received anything like that from Capitol or Brian's team."

Er, possibly because they have bigger fish to fry? Don't flatter yourself, sir.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2015, 12:37:28 PM by ontor pertawst » Logged
guitarfool2002
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« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2015, 12:39:10 PM »

Just wanted to add - There are statements in the original review which are in fact wrong and can be proven so, whether or not the Wilson family contacted anyone or the publication itself, and they have been corrected by people here in this thread based on the actual facts, not opinions or conjecture. The issue is giving readers of the publication at least an accurate, factual version of events whether it's humor or conjecture or anything else in between, and readers of this review did not get that accuracy, in fact they got a pretty unfair version considering it wasn't as factual as it should have been.
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« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2015, 12:52:42 PM »

Brian and Zooey's dad Caleb Deschanel filming the Good Vibrations promo film in fall 1966. Suitable for framing... Grin

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« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2015, 12:53:50 PM »

The issue is that you made statements in the review which were untrue yet you seemed to be suggesting they were factual in the context of your review (including the follow-up replies posted here), and some responding here know the statements are untrue and corrected them. If the review originally were simply whether you liked or disliked the album, and the reasons why, there would be no problems with that. People would either agree or disagree with the opinions you shared. But considering there are people who know the facts, and they've corrected what was wrong in your review (and posts here), why not accept that some of the statements you made as fact in the review were wrong and leave it at that?

Someone who knows the facts has not corrected me, someone who thinks they know the facts has corrected me. There's a big difference. If you've read Catch a Wave by Peter Ames Carlin (a writer I've spoken with about the Beach Boys, who lives in my city, and who worked at the Oregonian newspaper, where my review was also published), you'd know that during the Imagination sessions with Joe Thomas in the late '90s Brian had very little to do with the final product, per those involved. An excerpt from Carlin's book reads:

"Joe took it upon himself to make sure that the new songs sounded as adult contemporary radio as possible. Most were dominated by tinkling keyboards, with plenty of melodic interjections from a gently plucked nylon-string guitar. If Brian tried to use an instrument or an arrangement that might not fit into the soothing blend, Joe would shake his head and slice it out of the picture. And if this bothered Brian, he didn't show it." P. 292

"...Brian reportedly stated: "We call it a Brian Wilson album, but it's really a Joe Thomas/Brian Wilson album." P. 292

Brian and his team sued Thomas after the record came out and was universally panned, alleging that Thomas had taken too much control of their partnership, read about it here: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/bad-vibrations-brian-wilson-sues-collaborator-19990824

I see nothing different about NPP than I do about Imagination, another record pockmarked by bad collaborations (Jimmy Buffet) and horrific adult contemporary production.
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« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2015, 12:57:30 PM »

Regardless that you weren't contacted by a lawyer, it doesn't change the fact that there were statements in your review that you got wrong (easily proven wrong). And I don't think anyone at all implied you had the only harsh review - but you were seemingly the only one to barely talk about the actual music itself. You are the only reviewer to come to a Brian Wilson/Beach Boys fan board and rip our taste in music, saying straight out that really liking this album means our concept of logic and facts are skewed. I think most other reviewers act professionally and have a bit more class than that.
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« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2015, 01:02:31 PM »

The issue is that you made statements in the review which were untrue yet you seemed to be suggesting they were factual in the context of your review (including the follow-up replies posted here), and some responding here know the statements are untrue and corrected them. If the review originally were simply whether you liked or disliked the album, and the reasons why, there would be no problems with that. People would either agree or disagree with the opinions you shared. But considering there are people who know the facts, and they've corrected what was wrong in your review (and posts here), why not accept that some of the statements you made as fact in the review were wrong and leave it at that?

Someone who knows the facts has not corrected me, someone who thinks they know the facts has corrected me. There's a big difference. If you've read Catch a Wave by Peter Ames Carlin (a writer I've spoken with about the Beach Boys, who lives in my city, and who worked at the Oregonian newspaper, where my review was also published), you'd know that during the Imagination sessions with Joe Thomas in the late '90s Brian had very little to do with the final product, per those involved. An excerpt from Carlin's book reads:

"Joe took it upon himself to make sure that the new songs sounded as adult contemporary radio as possible. Most were dominated by tinkling keyboards, with plenty of melodic interjections from a gently plucked nylon-string guitar. If Brian tried to use an instrument or an arrangement that might not fit into the soothing blend, Joe would shake his head and slice it out of the picture. And if this bothered Brian, he didn't show it." P. 292

"...Brian reportedly stated: "We call it a Brian Wilson album, but it's really a Joe Thomas/Brian Wilson album." P. 292

Brian and his team sued Thomas after the record came out and was universally panned, alleging that Thomas had taken too much control of their partnership, read about it here: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/bad-vibrations-brian-wilson-sues-collaborator-19990824

I see nothing different about NPP than I do about Imagination, another record pockmarked by bad collaborations (Jimmy Buffet) and horrific adult contemporary production.

Read the interview posted in this link with the engineer at Ocean Way who worked on the album, concerning Brian's participation or as you're suggesting, non-participation, and consider that this album is NOT Imagination, as if connecting the two almost two decades apart from each other doesn't prove anything, no less back up an opinion of what was done.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,18510.0.html

Direct link to the piece in Mix magazine:
http://www.mixonline.com/news/profiles/brian-wilson-and-friends-ocean-way-studios/366563
« Last Edit: September 26, 2015, 01:06:32 PM by guitarfool2002 » Logged

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« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2015, 01:21:53 PM »

Someone who knows the facts has not corrected me, someone who thinks they know the facts has corrected me.

You claimed Brian didn't know who Zooey Deschanel was. Brian knew who Zooey Deschanel was before he started work on NPP. I actually know that fact because have the ability to search google and see with my own eyes that Brian was interviewed by her years before this album was even an idea. I don't "think" I know this fact. I actually know it.

Brian recorded a demo of Runaway Dancer in 1998 as told by a good friend of Brian's who has heard the track. Kacey Musgraves and Brian Wilson both wrote IGYHTBT together because Kacey talked about their collaboration in an interview. Thus your statement that this is a Brian Wilson album in name only is totally false.

You claimed every song on this album has shared credits with Joe Thomas. Read the CD liner notes, pal. He's not credited on every song. I don't "think" I know this fact, I actually know it.

Funny thing, you're defending your comments by calling them true because a lawyer hasn't contacted you. I'm defending my comments with actual facts. In your words:

Quote
There's a big difference.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2015, 01:23:16 PM by rab2591 » Logged

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« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2015, 01:31:39 PM »


Read the interview posted in this link with the engineer at Ocean Way who worked on the album, concerning Brian's participation or as you're suggesting, non-participation, and consider that this album is NOT Imagination, as if connecting the two almost two decades apart from each other doesn't prove anything, no less back up an opinion of what was done.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,18510.0.html

Direct link to the piece in Mix magazine:
http://www.mixonline.com/news/profiles/brian-wilson-and-friends-ocean-way-studios/366563

Interesting article. The first thing I noticed upon reading it, is that it doesn't contain the word "Joe" or "Thomas", but when you look at the album credits, I see the words "Joe" and "Thomas" quite a bit, in the producer credits and in every song credit (besides one) and these : additional mixing, acoustic piano, B3 organ, additional keyboards. (BTW if you have a CD copy, check out the list of all the engineers credited!)

I think I have something equally as interesting you might want to read. In June of 2014, Brian Wilson told the Irish Times: “I’ve had it with collaborators. I still work sometimes with Scott Bennett – he writes lyrics – but he’s the only one I work with." - Brian Wilson, June 2014

Now lets take note of when the album was recorded. The album credits (on my promo copy I received for review purposes) provide this information: Recorded in early 2013–November 2014.

So lets recap. Brian said, apparently in the middle of recording the record, and I quote:  “I’ve had it with collaborators."

Brian also mentioned: “I still work sometimes with Scott Bennett – he writes lyrics – but he’s the only one I work with."

Bennett has one co-write on NPP, maybe not so coincidentally, that song is also the only track Joe Thomas does NOT have a co-writing credit (One Kind of Love).

Read the article for yourself: http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/music/brian-wilson-s-united-states-of-music-1.1823177?page=3

I think we might eventually hear a different story about the making of this record in the near future.
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« Reply #34 on: September 26, 2015, 01:42:48 PM »

The story is "produced by Brian Wilson"
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« Reply #35 on: September 26, 2015, 02:31:21 PM »

At the time, the review almost seemed like trolling, meant solely to push buttons.

The writer's subsequent behavior has confirmed that fact.
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« Reply #36 on: September 26, 2015, 06:28:38 PM »

The story is "produced by Brian Wilson"

And it's a true story too, unless Thomas learned to produce an album while not being present.  To play devil's advocate,  maybe he produced by phone or email, or learned how to be in two 0 places at once.
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« Reply #37 on: September 26, 2015, 06:50:11 PM »

The story is "produced by Brian Wilson"

And it's a true story too, unless Thomas learned to produce an album while not being present.  To play devil's advocate,  maybe he produced by phone or email, or learned how to be in two 0 places at once.

So now you're denying Joe Thomas co-produced this record?

Go to this link: http://www.allmusic.com/album/no-pier-pressure-mw0002760473/credits

"Joe Thomas   Composer, Hammond B3, Keyboards, Mixing, Piano, Producer"

On my promo CD he is officially credited as co-producer.
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« Reply #38 on: September 26, 2015, 10:03:52 PM »

The story is "produced by Brian Wilson"

And it's a true story too, unless Thomas learned to produce an album while not being present.  To play devil's advocate,  maybe he produced by phone or email, or learned how to be in two 0 places at once.

So now you're denying Joe Thomas co-produced this record?

Go to this link: http://www.allmusic.com/album/no-pier-pressure-mw0002760473/credits

"Joe Thomas   Composer, Hammond B3, Keyboards, Mixing, Piano, Producer"

On my promo CD he is officially credited as co-producer.

Cause credits are never wrong  Roll Eyes

Okay...I'm going to try to be nice, because you haven't been here long and have no idea who I am, so apologies if this comes out rough...

My info is based on discussions who people who played on the record, and others who were present during the making of the record. Thomas was much more involved during the very early stages of recording. How early? Well, back when a certain J. Beck was still attached to the project. That fell apart (and thankfully so, according to many), and the album took a much different turn. Around that time, Thomas's involvement decreased by no small amount. I have to check my dates but after a certain point, Thomas had 'other engagements' that pretty much have continued to this day (take that how ever you wish, but a certain guy who used to have a mullet with the initials JT can confirm for you his activities and whereabouts, if you'd like...)

Like or dislike the album (it's all opinion)but make sure you know what you are talking about first (an important thing to remember for a journalist, print or otherwise).
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« Reply #39 on: September 27, 2015, 12:03:50 AM »

If JT co-produced just one track, he would still be listed as co-producer on the album. He and Brian have a long standing relationship.

Billy it's also my understanding he was not very involved in NPP aside from the co-writing of the tracks. I think Casey saw what was posted here about his popmatters review and joined not to discuss anything, but ruffle feathers for the sake of it.
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« Reply #40 on: September 27, 2015, 01:12:21 AM »

If JT co-produced just one track, he would still be listed as co-producer on the album. He and Brian have a long standing relationship.

Billy it's also my understanding he was not very involved in NPP aside from the co-writing of the tracks. I think Casey saw what was posted here about his popmatters review and joined not to discuss anything, but ruffle feathers for the sake of it.


Correct (on all counts )
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« Reply #41 on: September 27, 2015, 10:25:30 AM »

If JT co-produced just one track, he would still be listed as co-producer on the album. He and Brian have a long standing relationship.

Billy it's also my understanding he was not very involved in NPP aside from the co-writing of the tracks. I think Casey saw what was posted here about his popmatters review and joined not to discuss anything, but ruffle feathers for the sake of it.

So what you're saying is, "he wasn't very involved with NPP, he just co-wrote every track except one."

Sounds pretty involved to me. Also, I never knew people's thoughts on the PM review until someone was kind enough to show them to me. I came here because I thought this was a place to discuss the Beach Boys' music with other fans. I guess I was wrong?
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« Reply #42 on: September 27, 2015, 10:30:03 AM »

I think its pretty clear the point we were all making was that JT wasn't involved in the production of the album. He co-wrote the tracks but that's it. You know this but you keep arguing for some reason.
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« Reply #43 on: September 27, 2015, 11:38:16 AM »

If JT co-produced just one track, he would still be listed as co-producer on the album. He and Brian have a long standing relationship.

Billy it's also my understanding he was not very involved in NPP aside from the co-writing of the tracks. I think Casey saw what was posted here about his popmatters review and joined not to discuss anything, but ruffle feathers for the sake of it.

So what you're saying is, "he wasn't very involved with NPP, he just co-wrote every track except one."

Sounds pretty involved to me. Also, I never knew people's thoughts on the PM review until someone was kind enough to show them to me. I came here because I thought this was a place to discuss the Beach Boys' music with other fans. I guess I was wrong?

How could you not know people's thoughts on the PM review if you replied to some of those reactions on your own review 6 months ago (reposted below for reference)? And why restart the debate 6 months later, on this board, out of nowhere?

This can be a place to discuss the music with other fans if people want to do so, sure. So far all you seem to have been doing here is arguing something that hasn't been an issue for months, and refusing to concede any points that people here who actually know the real story have been offering.



Guest • 6 months ago

Hey all, I'm the author of the above article. I think some of y'all are forgetting that, like ALL reviews, these are opinions. So it is my OPINION that Brian had very little to do with this record, and I stand by that claim. I really don't care what Brian's PR team has cooked up to suggest that this was his work, it's evident in the production and the songs themselves that this is a Joe Thomas record with guest star Brian Wilson (is it even possible to guest star on your own record??). Look at the writing credits, Joe Thomas has a credit on all but one song, and several songs have 3 or more writers credited. Also, it's in Brian's contract that he must be given a producer credit on all records with his name on them, so it is highly unlikely he has anything to do with the abysmal sound on this album (I also find it mean-spirited that they had to get a shot of Brian aimlessly pushing the sliders around on the mixing board in the above promo video, in some sort of claim that Brian actually did any producing or engineering). The fact that some Beach Boys fans are lapping this album up is quite sad actually. I mean sure, it's probably a great album if you're the kind of person that finds Jimmy Buffett too experimental, but otherwise, its a sham.

-Casey

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« Reply #44 on: September 27, 2015, 12:27:24 PM »

I came here because I thought this was a place to discuss the Beach Boys' music with other fans.

If you are of a mind to give this record 5 stars then that's a good sign that no amount of logic or facts could possibly sway you.

But if we like this record you won't discuss it with us because we supposedly can't comprehend any facts or logic you throw at us? In any regard, let me enlighten you with a few anecdotes from someone WHO ACTUALLY DOES KNOW about the makings of this album:

On 'I Guess You Had To Be There':

When I was out there, Brian had already written the lyrics to the chorus' and then he recorded the chorus vocals. His kids were very into Kacey's record , so he had been listening to it and liked her voice and her lyrics; he really liked the lyrics . The first time they met , she had flown out to LA just to sit and discuss the song with Brian , and what his vision of it was. They talked about how it was when their individual careers got rolling; Brian asked her to write the lyrics for the verses talking about that, which is what you are hearing in the verses. For example, the part " guess you miss some of the gold " ( relationships , friendships, happiness) "when youre too busy chasing the shine" (chasing money and fame).

On the '98 demo of 'Runaway Dancer':

I am listening to "Talk of the Town", which is the track that Brian submitted to Sebu to work on. The song itself is about a "lady of the evening" to put it politely.  I will try and point out the similarities and differences between the original "Talk of the Town" and the completed "Runaway Dancer".

The intro is the same, verses are the same, the sax is there  and most of the synths are there; in case you didn't know, Brian loves synths. If you listen to the chorus " hey its been the talk of the town" closely enough , you will realize it is Brian and Blondie singing it. There are two transitions to a part where Brian and Blondie sing " Ran away from home, had to get away , livin' on the street, goin' all the way", which have been replaced by Sebu's  " runnin , Runaway dancer , runnin" part. The intro is repeated as a a break before the last part of the song; it ends with the vocal as is on the finished tune. Sebu added the "Runaway Dancer" part and some synth stuff , but the original track is pretty close to what has been released .

When Brian drives with his kids, they pick the radio stations in the car, as there is just so much K-Earth 101 teenagers and younger can listen to. Daria Wilson loves Capital Cities so it's pretty easy to connect the dots.  

I can tell you that for the new record , Brian is working really hard; it's what I want to see and hear. He has been at Ocean Way at least 10 times this month on his own , no Joe ; just Brian working with musicians and cutting vocals on his own. He is putting a lot of craft into the making of this record, taking his time, working around the schedules of the young singers he has brought in.  I believe yesterday he was in the studio from 12 noon to 9 pm , working on drums and vocals. There are moments where he and Al are singing together, and when they are swapping leads , that I never thought I would hear again.

So essentially we have a 72 year old Brian Wilson who is not the 24 year old kid who cut Pet Sounds, Good Vibrations and SMiLE.  Who is still there , still working , still trying to be unpredictable after all these years .

Just a side note regarding your ridiculous idea that Brian hasn't done his own music these last few years (an anecdote regarding BWRG):

A good example of what you are asking about is The Gershwin album.  Was it Brian's idea ? I don't know ; however what I do know is that he had been talking a lot about cutting Rhapsody in Blue , and the next thing I knew I was sitting in the deli with him and he is telling me he was signed to do a Gershwin album so i can connect those dots. i was at the majority of those sessions ; Mark Linett said it was the hardest he had ever seen Brian work, and he absolutely worked his ass off. I talked earlier about how Brian listens to nobody ; a small anecdotal example.  He was cutting the vocal on "Love is Here to Stay" and it was a beautiful take.  I was kind of telling him "Brian you need to double that lead and it will be incredible". He was adamant that no , "it's just right".  And of course he was right , it was.  And I , thankfully , shut the hell up. Another example is "Nothing But Love".  It was initially cut as a ballad ; something about Paris , and it was not up to par.  The next morning , Brian was the first one in the studio, teaching the band essentially an entire rewrite of the song; different tempo , different key. He had consulted with Paul Von Mertens about writing the charts on the overnight for the song , I remember Paul saying to me something to the effect of " you know maybe we're too close, but you forget what a brilliant musician Brian is ". I could say lots more but it's getting late and I type slowly!

And another example from the TLOS sessions. Which is in this 10 year timeframe of Brian supposedly being disinterested in music:

In 2006/2007 , I spent a good portion of my time , and American Airlines points , commuting between JFK and LAX. Literally every morning, at 0800 EST, my phone would ring.  At the other end of the line, was Brian Wilson, already up , working on songs, asking for input ; what I thought.  The next question was invariably " when can you come out ? " It was the summer of the Scott Bennett sessions. I would fly out and immediately go to the house......every week. The ritual was simple: get to the house, Brian always waiting in the driveway, go up to the music room where he would play the new song on his synthesizer, never on the grand piano. Then , go to the deli and eat , then go to the park and walk.  Then drive to Scott's place early so we could listen to "Pet Sounds" ....then stop at the same 7-11 and get a 6 pack of Corona Light for the session. Brian would lay down several piano tracks , Scott would add bass, drums and guitar; Brian would then lay down the lead vocal. The songs were written , lyrics and music , by Brian. I have every generation of each one of these songs on CD here at home ; from Brian's piano demo's, to the Scott Bennett engineered sessions, to what came out. Any theory that Brian does not write his own stuff anymore is just pure unadulterated nonsense.

There are plenty more examples in Ray Lawlor's post history of Brian's prowess when it comes to making his solo records. I suggest next time you write an opinion piece, you make it an educated opinion by researching the things you want to talk about.
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« Reply #45 on: September 27, 2015, 12:54:03 PM »

I tried giving him the benefit of the doubt, but by continously grasping at straws in order to boost his already failing argument, he's coming across as more of a uninformed troll. Makes question some of his other reviews. .

I mean, the fact that Thomas was in a completely different state during the actual recording of the album should count for something since we had been talking about Thomas's involvement with the production , but I guess it's possible to produce by proxy.  Maybe him and Brian switched bodies.  Or maybe it was a Nicholas Cage &John Travolta Face/Off situation and Thomas with Brian's face was in LA. Or there was cloning involved. Or, it could've like Avatar, with Brian as a blue-cat person and Joe Thomas was playing the Sam Worthington role.

Oh...I got it...I know how Thomas produced NPP despite not being anywhere near California. ..



I've been holding out this whole time...NPP was actually produced by Dr Fucking Who.
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« Reply #46 on: September 27, 2015, 01:04:16 PM »

LOL LOL LOL
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« Reply #47 on: September 27, 2015, 04:13:01 PM »

I tried giving him the benefit of the doubt, but by continously grasping at straws in order to boost his already failing argument, he's coming across as more of a uninformed troll. Makes question some of his other reviews. .

I mean, the fact that Thomas was in a completely different state during the actual recording of the album should count for something since we had been talking about Thomas's involvement with the production , but I guess it's possible to produce by proxy.  Maybe him and Brian switched bodies.  Or maybe it was a Nicholas Cage &John Travolta Face/Off situation and Thomas with Brian's face was in LA. Or there was cloning involved. Or, it could've like Avatar, with Brian as a blue-cat person and Joe Thomas was playing the Sam Worthington role.

Oh...I got it...I know how Thomas produced NPP despite not being anywhere near California. ..



I've been holding out this whole time...NPP was actually produced by Dr Fucking Who.

Okay, I'll take you at your word that Thomas was in fact not present at the sessions for this album. I have no reason not to trust you if Thomas is a friend of yours or of the board's. But as a reviewer, I have to go by the credits given on the record, and if they don't match up with reality that's a problem with the record company, not with my judgement. My copy says "Produced by Brian Wilson and Joe Thomas", and Thomas is also credited with a co-write on every song except "One Kind of Love", you can look those things up yourselves. So thats what I went on. But it doesn't change how I feel about the record, because if Brian was really behind all of that autotune, the beats on Runaway Dancer and all the collaborations, then I think it was a very, very poor decision on his part. I would score it the exact same way. But obviously, we will have to agree to disagree on the quality of the music, as you can with any review. I was just genuinely curious as to what people were attracted to about this album, that's the reason I commented on this thread.

This seems like it's kind of another example of how, since the '80s, nothing is how it seems with Brian. His camp is always playing the smoke & mirrors game with the fans, I'm so tired of it.
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« Reply #48 on: September 27, 2015, 04:29:04 PM »

Billy C.'s face/off comment wins the thread!! LOL LOL LOL
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« Reply #49 on: September 27, 2015, 04:56:52 PM »

I tried giving him the benefit of the doubt, but by continously grasping at straws in order to boost his already failing argument, he's coming across as more of a uninformed troll. Makes question some of his other reviews. .

I mean, the fact that Thomas was in a completely different state during the actual recording of the album should count for something since we had been talking about Thomas's involvement with the production , but I guess it's possible to produce by proxy.  Maybe him and Brian switched bodies.  Or maybe it was a Nicholas Cage &John Travolta Face/Off situation and Thomas with Brian's face was in LA. Or there was cloning involved. Or, it could've like Avatar, with Brian as a blue-cat person and Joe Thomas was playing the Sam Worthington role.

Oh...I got it...I know how Thomas produced NPP despite not being anywhere near California. ..



I've been holding out this whole time...NPP was actually produced by Dr Fucking Who.

Okay, I'll take you at your word that Thomas was in fact not present at the sessions for this album. I have no reason not to trust you if Thomas is a friend of yours or of the board's. But as a reviewer, I have to go by the credits given on the record, and if they don't match up with reality that's a problem with the record company, not with my judgement. My copy says "Produced by Brian Wilson and Joe Thomas", and Thomas is also credited with a co-write on every song except "One Kind of Love", you can look those things up yourselves. So thats what I went on. But it doesn't change how I feel about the record, because if Brian was really behind all of that autotune, the beats on Runaway Dancer and all the collaborations, then I think it was a very, very poor decision on his part. I would score it the exact same way. But obviously, we will have to agree to disagree on the quality of the music, as you can with any review. I was just genuinely curious as to what people were attracted to about this album, that's the reason I commented on this thread.

This seems like it's kind of another example of how, since the '80s, nothing is how it seems with Brian. His camp is always playing the smoke & mirrors game with the fans, I'm so tired of it.


Honest question: How long have you been reviewing albums? I'm asking because you should know (and I mean, really) that 'spin' is standard practice when it comes to album publicity for anybody, not just Brian. That's part of the game. Likewise, you should well know that album credits are rarely if ever accurate for various reasons. Trust me, I'm NOT justifying that by any means  (hell, it drives me nuts...and Lord knows I've spent quite a bit of time here correcting a lot of incorrect info in liners), just stating it's extremely commonplace. Part of being a journalist is doing your research; not trying to beat a dead horse, but you do know that Brian *already* knew Zooey before NPP, right? I'd imagine you knew who her dad was, right, and the connection there?

As far as the fact that Brian was behind the artistic decisions concerning the album...well, for better or worse, it is indeed true. For the record, Autotune was NOT used on the record, although another form of pitch correction WAS used...(IIRC, it was melodyne, but I'll have to ask for clarification). That was Brian's decision (and for a good comparison between HIS use of pitch correction and Thomas auto-tuning things to infinity and beyond, listen to the hideous Beach Boys C50 'live' album); he has stated many times that he wishes he had such tools available to him in the 60s. He happens to prefer a softer sound these days. Many of us (myself included) would rather he did more experimental sounds, but at the end of the day, it's Brian's call (as it damn well should be).


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