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Empire Of Love
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« Reply #50 on: June 18, 2015, 08:35:50 AM »

Agreed.
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« Reply #51 on: June 18, 2015, 08:38:35 AM »

When government is given the power of mommy and daddy, of educator and provider...you have created a BEAST. The only way that power is ever transferred is by systemic collapse.
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« Reply #52 on: June 18, 2015, 10:07:52 AM »


TRBB: even if there is more voter fraud than I believe there to be, I don't think that compares with the utter trash that is the 2-party dominance, as owned by corporate wealth. And I assume (apologies if wrongly) you mean the kind of alleged fraud that the likes of M Bachmann and similar types have imagined as pro-Democrat. If that's the case, it isn't working sufficiently to be a current "threat" anyway, considering the Republicans kept and won the House and Senate, respectively. Whereas the entrenched system of two parties picking talking heads to fundraise and spout the talking points written by their sponsors, and to protect their and their parties' political interests at all costs regardless of the citizens' interests or opinions...that's the more serious problem.

No argument there. I may be an advocate of extreme capitalism; that does not mean I am pro-corporation. The military-corporate-industrial complex is something to be mistrusted. As far as the voter fraud thing goes, I'm sure it's a negligible amount. But there are many people who vote for a living. These people depend on the welfare teet. And I don't just mean the poor. Big corporations would be up sh*t creek without government.

Thanks for that clarification. I generally agree.
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« Reply #53 on: June 18, 2015, 01:02:45 PM »

When government is given the power of mommy and daddy, of educator and provider...you have created a BEAST. The only way that power is ever transferred is by systemic collapse.

It be collapsin'.  But they're still winning elections.

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« Reply #54 on: June 18, 2015, 01:15:39 PM »

Time to make room in the clown car: Trump is in.

I don't know Trump's politics -- he's been all over the map politically -- but I do like his firm, business sense.  SO REFRESHING.  I'm sick of the electing lunatics who really have nothing to offer.



No Bean.  No, no, no... I went to the Harvard.  Understand?  I'm different.

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« Reply #55 on: June 18, 2015, 04:22:53 PM »

I'd like a refreshing change, but Trump is only half of that. We don't need (any more) celebrity politicians. I say that as a guy who lived through a Jesse "The Body" governorship, far too many years of talk-show ranting Bachmann in the House, and remain in a Franken senatorship. I don't have much faith this will happen, but we don't need reality TV show hosts throwing firebomb remarks around.
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« Reply #56 on: June 18, 2015, 07:50:26 PM »

I'd like a refreshing change, but Trump is only half of that. We don't need (any more) celebrity politicians. I say that as a guy who lived through a Jesse "The Body" governorship, far too many years of talk-show ranting Bachmann in the House, and remain in a Franken senatorship. I don't have much faith this will happen, but we don't need reality TV show hosts throwing firebomb remarks around.
LOL  True, very true.
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« Reply #57 on: June 20, 2015, 06:57:51 AM »

  Interesting how the various GOP candidates refrain from labelling the Charleston shooting exactly what it was: a race based hate crime. The shooter himself said as much. Who are the 2016 Republican presidential candidates trying not to offend? Psychopathic racists?

 
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« Reply #58 on: June 20, 2015, 09:59:07 PM »

 Interesting how the various GOP candidates refrain from labelling the Charleston shooting exactly what it was: a race based hate crime. The shooter himself said as much. Who are the 2016 Republican presidential candidates trying not to offend? Psychopathic racists?

Seriously?  LOL  I'm not pulling for any of "various GOP" candidate with my response -- but I just can't let stuff like this float out of the sewer without a proper smack-down.

First, stories like this are made for the blow-pops out there that already believe all Republicans are racists.  Would this story even make sense otherwise?  No.  Second, if it's labels you want, ask Obama what terrorism is.

The audacity and hypocrisy of Democrat "media" never ceases to amaze.  I swear, there's no shame.  Obama is the one who has trouble applying appropriate labels.  To him, Terrorism is the "T-word."  Islamic Extremism, does not exist.  He's either delusional or has an agenda.  Because the reality is, there's an army amassing, taking over cities.  And to him, there's nothing behind it -- or so he wants you to believe.

The reality is -- all candidates are repulsed by this shooting, and have said so.  And I'm sure, if these racist killings proved to be part of larger racist cult, that was taking over cities, and riding around with AK-47s in downtown Atlanta -- then nobody would be calling it work-place violence, like how Obama tries to sell us on.
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the captain
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« Reply #59 on: June 21, 2015, 06:26:06 AM »

 Interesting how the various GOP candidates refrain from labelling the Charleston shooting exactly what it was: a race based hate crime. The shooter himself said as much. Who are the 2016 Republican presidential candidates trying not to offend? Psychopathic racists?

Seriously?  LOL  I'm not pulling for any of "various GOP" candidate with my response -- but I just can't let stuff like this float out of the sewer without a proper smack-down.

First, stories like this are made for the blow-pops out there that already believe all Republicans are racists.  Would this story even make sense otherwise?  No.  Second, if it's labels you want, ask Obama what terrorism is.

The audacity and hypocrisy of Democrat "media" never ceases to amaze.  I swear, there's no shame.  Obama is the one who has trouble applying appropriate labels.  To him, Terrorism is the "T-word."  Islamic Extremism, does not exist.  He's either delusional or has an agenda.  Because the reality is, there's an army amassing, taking over cities.  And to him, there's nothing behind it -- or so he wants you to believe.

The reality is -- all candidates are repulsed by this shooting, and have said so.  And I'm sure, if these racist killings proved to be part of larger racist cult, that was taking over cities, and riding around with AK-47s in downtown Atlanta -- then nobody would be calling it work-place violence, like how Obama tries to sell us on.

I don't think I'm coming from the same place as either of you.

First, as Bean Bag said, I do agree that all candidates--indeed, all reasonably normal human beings--are repulsed by the Charleston shooting, as they are of all similar violence. Maybe candidates across the political spectrum aren't using the same terminology, which is not surprising: the parties (and even factions of the parties sometimes) use their own vocabularies all the time to reinforce or reflect their worldviews. But really, does the cause of the violence require the emphasis? I might actually come down closer to the standard Republican position on that, an aversion to differentiating the crime based on the cause (as opposed to the action, the effect). The very term "hate crime" is almost silly: if I'm shot by a white-hating non-white, is that worse for me than being shot by a me-hating white guy? Not really. Killed is killed, and every murder is a hate crime. There aren't a lot of "love murders" out there.

(Don't take this as me taking it easy on racism. Racism is obviously a position of ignorance and fear. That's sad. Racists are pathetic.)

But I do take issue on the omnipresent Obama slamming on this issue, too. Not that I think he's perfect--far from it--but I don't think it's quite accurate. The president has consistently condemned the terrorism of the assorted jihadists out there for being just that. What a lot of right-wing media took issue with was his accurate, but maybe tone-deaf, statement a few months back about how Christianity had its own periods of intolerance and violence. That wasn't intended to justify ISIS or Al Qaeda or any other current Islamic terrorism, it was just putting it into context. I actually took it as a unifying statement; many took it as a divisive one. But to me, the idea (again, even if inelegantly communicated) was intended to remember there were and are good and bad aspects of every larger subgroup, and that we ought not hate or condemn all Muslims just because there are factions of them using their versions of that religion for violence and oppression. But never has he said or implied there are not factions of Muslims committing that violence and oppression.

Really it doesn't have to always come down to one-upmanship though. We could discuss things without always reverting to "oh yeah, well your team said/did..."

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« Reply #60 on: June 21, 2015, 07:33:46 AM »

I'd like a refreshing change, but Trump is only half of that. We don't need (any more) celebrity politicians. I say that as a guy who lived through a Jesse "The Body" governorship, far too many years of talk-show ranting Bachmann in the House, and remain in a Franken senatorship. I don't have much faith this will happen, but we don't need reality TV show hosts throwing firebomb remarks around.
LOL  True, very true.
Trump is making things interesting...and "making America great" again is very seductive political rhetoric.  There is truth in this.  There is more than one business person / celebrity in the mix now. 

He'll inject some new perspective and call out some fakers in the race.  One thing, is that Donald Trump will not be ignored.  And can buy whatever "narrative time" he wants in the press.  He will be a player even if he isn't the nominee. 

Good for him for putting his money where his mouth is.
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« Reply #61 on: June 21, 2015, 08:42:13 AM »

I would trust a businessman more as a president than a politician...that's not saying much, though.
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« Reply #62 on: June 21, 2015, 11:26:13 AM »

  I didn't say all Republicans are racists. What I said is that none of the major contenders for the GOP nomination were willing to acknowledge the Charleston incident was an act based on madness and race hatred, when the shooter himself said as much. Why not? You tell me.

 I'm from a long line of Republicans. My dad, his dad & mom, their parents, etc. I voted for Ronald Reagan, Bob Dole, and John McCain. All good men. Once voted for George W Bush. That was a mistake I did not repeat. In ideological terms, I am more or less a Liberal Republican who reveres Dwight D Eisenhower, thinks Nelson Rockefeller might have made a good president, respects Bush the elder, and has a few nice things to say about Richard Nixon as well.

 Having said that, the dominant strand of today's GOP is rather sickening IMO. FOX News and Rush Limbaugh have harmed the GOP more than any Democrat ever could. The GOP must either evolve or join the Whigs in the dustbin of history.
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« Reply #63 on: June 21, 2015, 11:28:41 AM »

I would trust a businessman more as a president than a politician...that's not saying much, though.

  A businessman? Maybe so, but Trump is a celebrity businessman, and a cartoon. Romney was more the real deal in that department.
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« Reply #64 on: June 22, 2015, 05:44:16 AM »

 I didn't say all Republicans are racists. What I said is that none of the major contenders for the GOP nomination were willing to acknowledge the Charleston incident was an act based on madness and race hatred, when the shooter himself said as much. Why not? You tell me.

For what it's worth--and I'm not sure what exactly it is worth--both Sen Rubio and Gov Walker have explicitly called it racist violence.

Saturday, Walker said "I want to make it abundantly clear that I think the act, the crime that was committed on Wednesday, is an act of racism."

Rubio said it was "an act motivated by racial hatred."
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« Reply #65 on: June 23, 2015, 04:44:56 AM »

  If so, I stand corrected. It was an awful tragedy and on that everyone agrees.

  ***********


  Scott Walker...if he is legit, then anybody can run.
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« Reply #66 on: June 23, 2015, 07:13:14 AM »

 I didn't say all Republicans are racists. What I said is that none of the major contenders for the GOP nomination were willing to acknowledge the Charleston incident was an act based on madness and race hatred, when the shooter himself said as much. Why not? You tell me.

For what it's worth--and I'm not sure what exactly it is worth--both Sen Rubio and Gov Walker have explicitly called it racist violence.

Saturday, Walker said "I want to make it abundantly clear that I think the act, the crime that was committed on Wednesday, is an act of racism."

Rubio said it was "an act motivated by racial hatred."
That young man reminded me, eerily, of the mentally ill Newtown shooter, and other young people who have had untreated or poorly treated mental illness.  Young children who manifest signs of "no remorse" and "no compassion" are often ticking time bombs.  This guy could have just as easily channeled his mental illness and rage toward ISIS.  When this guy's background is plumbed, it is likely that these signs were manifesting themselves in anti-social school behavior, that went ignored because the party line in schools is that "they will outgrow it."

My blood would run cold looking at the steely eyes of an unrepentant four or five year old child who kicked another classmate, or ripped up their drawing. Later, they often kill animals. It likely came from someplace that went ignored until the person "aged-out" of treatment or turned 18, at which time the parents have no rights.  These kids need help and not be "swept under the big rug" in school.  This was a marginalized kid who "blended in" until he didn't.

And, I'm not condoning his actions but it didn't happen overnight. A lot of people dropped the ball along the way. Monsters are made/created over time.  And technically it is a "racial hate crime."
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« Reply #67 on: June 23, 2015, 08:39:03 AM »

Having said that, the dominant strand of today's GOP is rather sickening IMO. FOX News and Rush Limbaugh have harmed the GOP more than any Democrat ever could. The GOP must either evolve or join the Whigs in the dustbin of history.

They should have endeavored to be more like Calvin Coolidge and Barry Goldwater as opposed to Abraham Lincoln and Ronald Reagan.
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« Reply #68 on: June 23, 2015, 03:43:47 PM »

... as opposed to ... Ronald Reagan.

Good thing you're clearly not a card-carrying Republican type, because they'd kick you out for such heresy. At least since the campaign before the '08 nomination, Reagan has been identified as being, more or less, Jesus.
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« Reply #69 on: June 23, 2015, 03:55:30 PM »

Oh, I have as much love for the GOP as I do the Democrats. The Democrats don't eat their own during election season, which is the only reason they've remained relevant.
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« Reply #70 on: June 23, 2015, 04:30:40 PM »

In that the GOP's calling card used to be ol' Ronald Christ's "11th commandment," (thou shalt not speak ill of a fellow Republican) it's actually an interesting twist. The converse used to be the case.

I don't agree with your last clause. My relationship to the Democrats might be similar to yours to Republicans (from what I've perceived, anyway), but I don't think their ability to promote their candidates is the only reason why they're relevant. I think the reason they're relevant is that Republicans have come across as either country club members or hysterical "oppressed majority" white Christians. It isn't because Democrats haven't necessarily had quite the infighting of recent (really only post-Tea Party) Republicans that some segment of America believes Democrats are less of an obstacle to equality in terms of gender, race, sexual orientation, or equality of opportunity (financially speaking).

I'm not arguing a political-philosophy or policy position with those sentences, mind you. Just saying that it isn't as if the Republicans present an obvious, clear choice for what all citizens deem the path to personal or national success, somehow blocked only by their own (and Democrats' lack of) infighting.
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« Reply #71 on: June 24, 2015, 05:56:59 AM »

 I didn't say all Republicans are racists. What I said is that none of the major contenders for the GOP nomination were willing to acknowledge the Charleston incident was an act based on madness and race hatred, when the shooter himself said as much. Why not? You tell me.

For what it's worth--and I'm not sure what exactly it is worth--both Sen Rubio and Gov Walker have explicitly called it racist violence.

Saturday, Walker said "I want to make it abundantly clear that I think the act, the crime that was committed on Wednesday, is an act of racism."

Rubio said it was "an act motivated by racial hatred."

Dr. Carson (of whom I'm not a fan, politically, though he's certainly an impressive man) spoke very pointedly on this yesterday, making comments in reference to the candidates who have not been blunt in noting the racism involved in the killing. (My understanding is that Gov Perry, Sen Paul, Sen Santorum, and Gov Jindal have avoided saying "racism.")

Carson said "let's call this sickness what it is so we can get on with the healing. There are people who are claiming they can lead this country who dare not call this tragedy an act of racism, a hate crime, for fear of offending a particular segment of the electorate. Let's not delude ourselves here. If we teach [young people] it is ok to deny racism exists, even when it's staring them in the face, then we will perpetuate this sickness into the next generation and the next."
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« Reply #72 on: June 24, 2015, 09:28:11 AM »

I'd like a refreshing change, but Trump is only half of that. We don't need (any more) celebrity politicians. I say that as a guy who lived through a Jesse "The Body" governorship, far too many years of talk-show ranting Bachmann in the House, and remain in a Franken senatorship. I don't have much faith this will happen, but we don't need reality TV show hosts throwing firebomb remarks around.
LOL  True, very true.
Trump is making things interesting...and "making America great" again is very seductive political rhetoric.  There is truth in this.  There is more than one business person / celebrity in the mix now.  

He'll inject some new perspective and call out some fakers in the race.  One thing, is that Donald Trump will not be ignored.  And can buy whatever "narrative time" he wants in the press.  He will be a player even if he isn't the nominee.  

Good for him for putting his money where his mouth is.
Yep, this is how I feel. Whether we like it or not politics is about charisma, selling yourself (and maybe even your ideas!) to voters. Trump is also a very successful person -- a business leader who is unashamed of his success. Not only is that refreshing as hell, but critical after suffering under the negative, shameful, tyranny of a "know-it-all," unaccomplished "pretty boy" radical twit for 7 years.  We need pride, strength and loyalty, and SUCCESS so bad right now.  Real success.  Not propaganda.  I'm not endorsing Trump yet but he's the one I've been telling people about (to scoffs and jeers). We'll see.

But, what I love most about Trump, is how he handles the Democrat Party Communication Department -- or "media."  He knows who they are, I think.  He knows the media nazis exists only to destroy Republicans or anybody who opposes their Party's nominee.  Either way... he doesn't bite on the narrative advanced by the hitler media.  And that's why liberals panties get in a wad when I mention Donald Trump.  "Donald Trump!" Can you feel your undies binding up?  if so... you're a liberal.  LOL
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« Reply #73 on: June 24, 2015, 09:51:45 AM »

... as opposed to ... Ronald Reagan.

Good thing you're clearly not a card-carrying Republican type, because they'd kick you out for such heresy. At least since the campaign before the '08 nomination, Reagan has been identified as being, more or less, Jesus.

This is the wishful misconception perpetrated by the agenda driven class -- that the Republican Party is all about Reagan.  Sigh.  I don't know how many times I've had to correct this... but no, Reagan was not and is not loved by the Republican Party.  Candidates (on both the right and left) constantly evoke his name because he was the best damn President we've had in modern times and people loved him -- (and yes, that too drives the power-hungry politicans crazy).  Al Gore famously came out for one of the debates with his hair combed and wearing make-up (rosy cheeks) to look just like Reagan.  It was creepy.  But then again, Al Gore is creepy.  Republicans constantly bring his name up in front of voters -- because he was popular.

But don't be fooled.  The fact is, Reagan (and all unafraid, unapologetic principled conservatives) are NOT supported by Republicans or ANY Party.  The parties are about power and money.  On both sides.  Reagan was about the people -- and constantly spoke of how government IS the eternal problem, not the answer.  That's not what the parties are about.  And while they're fine to trade on his name and stock -- they sh-t on his supporters, stab'em in the back and grow government from their comfy committee seats.

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« Reply #74 on: June 24, 2015, 10:00:06 AM »

 I didn't say all Republicans are racists. What I said is that none of the major contenders for the GOP nomination were willing to acknowledge the Charleston incident was an act based on madness and race hatred, when the shooter himself said as much. Why not? You tell me.

 I'm from a long line of Republicans. My dad, his dad & mom, their parents, etc. I voted for Ronald Reagan, Bob Dole, and John McCain. All good men. Once voted for George W Bush. That was a mistake I did not repeat. In ideological terms, I am more or less a Liberal Republican who reveres Dwight D Eisenhower, thinks Nelson Rockefeller might have made a good president, respects Bush the elder, and has a few nice things to say about Richard Nixon as well.

 Having said that, the dominant strand of today's GOP is rather sickening IMO. FOX News and Rush Limbaugh have harmed the GOP more than any Democrat ever could. The GOP must either evolve or join the Whigs in the dustbin of history.

Fair enough.  Actually, I didn't mean to attack your observation (it's quite relevant) but it fed into the emerging media/Demorat template of "Republicans: are they ALL racists?  Or just some?  See their response, at 11"  It's not only one of those "try to disprove a negative" traps for Republicans if they don't respond correctly (which is nearly impossible), but it's really all that the media/demorats have going for themselves in 2016.
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