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Author Topic: Love and Mercy Soundtrack  (Read 56003 times)
jeremylr
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« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2014, 05:14:46 PM »

Who exactly is Elliot Kendall? And I'm just curious....what was the last project that Jerry Schilling handled for the BB? I appreciate your level-headed contributions very much, Howie.
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« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2014, 06:15:44 PM »

It`s a nice idea that the group could have a manager that would equally represent all members but that hasn`t happened for any length of time over the past 52 years and it isn`t going to start now...
« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 07:59:41 AM by Nicko1234 » Logged
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« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2014, 07:08:44 AM »

Oh, things change all the time.

McCartney and Yoko holding hands, Harrison and McCartney recording together, Yoko and Cynthia embracing for the press -- Al appearing at a Mike salute, Jeff Foskett nose-to-nose sharing mics with Mike and Stamos, Brian and Joe Thomas writing and recording. . .  BRIAN WILSON & MIKE LOVE TOURING TOGETHER. It would be a blind (and contrary) man to not recognize that there’s been far more agreement in 52 years than not. The fact of the matter is that The Beach Boys as a brand -- not Mike Love’s separate touring organization -- but the “Beach Boys” brand is at a low ebb. And this is a dangerous time to risk extinction as the commercial plates and its connected technology are rapidly shifting. The earning power of BRI has severely atrophied over years by having no leadership, adequate and respected representation at their label, and the most ill-advised decisions regarding restaurants, gaming ventures, and similar ilk. There are a backlog of breathtaking projects to be released that have been ignored by Capitol because there's no respect, no muscle fronting the band at the label.

It’s literally a property manager at an office building. Compare that to Irving Azoff, Jeff Jones, and a half-dozen other of the like. Zero vision.

It comes to a point where a multi-million brand needs a guy(s) to WORK that brand. Sunkist was a BILLION years ago. Oldies / Classics Hits radio is Hall & Oates and The Police. The BB’s are hanging on with about 6 songs. They are VERY lucky. That will end. Motown survives too, but “Shop Around” and "My Guy" -- like “Be True To Your School” -- have died the same deaths as Leslie Gore and Gary Lewis. This is a band and catalogue so beloved that 139 years after it’s debut single they can sell out Wembley. How does their earning potential and legacy go unchecked for so long?
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Nicko1234
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« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2014, 08:17:52 AM »

Have Capitol really been that bad?

A genuine question but the compilation albums that stood a chance of sales have either done very well (Sounds of Summer) or OK (The Warmth of the Sun) and the new albums that they`ve released by both Brian and The Beach Boys have done as well as anyone could reasonably expected.

The rarities stuff (and there`s been a fair amount of it) that they`ve issued was only ever going to have a minority appeal I would have thought.

As a fan I would obviously have loved them to release even more but it doesnt seem to have been a complete disaster.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 08:20:44 AM by Nicko1234 » Logged
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« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2014, 09:10:09 AM »

I think Howie hit on one of the key points in a post from a few months ago: Licensing. And there is more, perhaps more specific to Brian Wilson in the next year, that is out there.

On the licensing issue: I'm a classic insomniac, I'll start channel surfing and land on a late-night movie or something on an almost regular basis. The other night, "Boogie Nights" happened to be on, I had never seen it. Near the end of the movie, maybe 5-10 minutes before the credits, I'm watching and out of nowhere "God Only Knows" starts playing under a montage of scenes. It sounded *amazing*, as it always does, but in that context and being totally unprepared for it, that song knocked me out, it was one of those neat surprises that hearing Beach Boys music randomly offers us.

Why mention that? It was one in what I think has been a great run of licensed Beach Boys music showing up surprisingly in various movie and TV projects. People are still talking about that Mad Men scene when they are at a psychedelic party and someone in the apartment puts on a reel-to-reel tape of "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times". It *nailed* that scene, and the whole episode if not that whole season of the show as well as any piece of music could have done. And it generated a lot of online buzz, and therefore interest in the song, and therefore downloads of the song on iTunes as well as people revisiting Pet Sounds in general.

Again, a long line of such appearances that includes everything from "Roger And Me" using Wouldn't It Be Nice, "Good Morning Vietnam" using I Get Around, a TV show called "Life On Mars" using Long Promised Road, going back 30 years to "The Big Chill" with Wouldn't It Be Nice, a film whose title I can't recall which starred Jimmy Fallon and also featured Wouldn't It Be Nice...the list goes on.

Speaking of Fallon, he's of course the host of The Tonight Show now. He is a major fan, as is his bandleader Questlove, and as we remember Questlove had sent out messages on Twitter singing the praises of the Smile Sessions box, of Pet Sounds, of having the Beach Boys on the show in 2012, etc. His Twitter feed reaches all ages and many genres, and specifically with the Smile Sessions he put out the word of how many great sampling opportunities existed on that box...Imagine how many thousands of DJ's, producers, and the like who normally would not be buying Beach Boys records checked out Smile on Questlove's online recommendation?

Again with Fallon...The Beach Boys during C50 were on his show, Fallon gave them *three songs* plus a sit down interview with Brian and Mike. He did as respectful of a cold opening for the band as I've seen...no theme music, no monologue, but instead a cold open where he said "The Beach Boys..." and the band started singing "In My Room". This just does not happen on formula late-night television! But it did, for the Beach Boys. Also count the number of times he's had guests like Zooey Deschanel, Katy Perry, and others where they started talking Beach Boys and Brian. Totally new and different fan bases and demographics, who knows how many checked out the music because of those interviews.

The fruit is out there, ripe for the picking.

I have to agree, it does feel like the focus of marketing various elements of the music and the musicians can feel like stagnation. Like the marketing is based on what worked decades ago, while ignoring what has worked and what does work in recent years.

People who hear it generally like if not *love* hearing these songs, which is why I think the legacy is and always will be in the recordings. It's fine to market live shows and the like, but ultimately they are branches of a much larger tree, and if things like the Mad Men episode are more heavily pursued for future projects, the legacy, the marketing, and the profit-making potential of the corporation in general will be safe and secure for years to come.

People want this music, they want to hear and experience it, and those random appearances separate from concert tours and greatest hits compilation packaging are what connects with more potential new listeners (and new fans) who will seek out more of the music if they're exposed to it. If the right song is placed in the right project at the right time, the positives and return on the investment might outweigh anything done to promote another greatest hits package.

A metaphor: If you live on a 100-acre spread of land that includes an apple orchard, why would you buy apples at the supermarket in the fall? You have the best fruit ready and waiting to be picked in your own backyard if you choose to pick it.
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« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2014, 11:10:37 AM »

Spot on Guitarfool.

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve worked with major artists who are under the delusion that a new release will catch on with Classic Rock radio. That never happens. What radio is good for is TALKING about the new work, which is all the promotion it gets. A Stones “Doom And Gloom” is a best case scenario -- and that’s with the second biggest band in rock. Aerosmith was dumbfounded by their last LP having no traction. When and if artists ask me advice I always ask them who is pushing their material for the screen. They never know. Is it the label? Is it management? There truth is always NO ONE.

To bring this back to the Beach Boys, in a perfect world, six of the songs on TWGMTR should’ve been licensed to TV/film and/or products for commercial use by the time of release. The reality was the tour, which had A PLETHORA of pre-opening night snags, was always operating at "let’s see if this thing sticks" that such a deal couldn’t be nailed down. As of the pre-Grammy (no) show a good number of us were told that the tour was NOT happening. (Another story for another time). Rather than working the LP to radio -- which is WASN’T -- other than a promo mailed of the single and LP, there was no follow through. Now, Oldies radio, which was all over the 50th, would’ve gone apes hi t for a brief major affiliate “That’s Why God Made The Radio” acapella snippet sent with the call letters plugged in (a la  “Almost Summer.”) Smart business. That didn’t happen. The pushing of “Summer’s Gone” being a Jon Bon Jovi co-write -- press that would’ve added Classic Rock street creed, and a great sidebar to every story -- was a missed opportunity. Getting “Isn’t It Time” and “Spring Vacation” into a major motion pictures as a tie with the tour -- nothing. These are the things that generate profit and exposure. Touring is the meat and potatoes. Licensing is the bread and butter. It earns forever.

I don’t mean to harp on the 50th, but I’m using that as an example of why BRI needs people to bring this band/company into the aughts. And I’m nether laying blame on Joe Thomas -- because he made this ENTIRE THING happen, nor am I doing so to Jean Sievers, who kept this tour a top priority for outlets from the first show to the last (e.g. anyone hear any reports on how Tom Petty’s summer tour wound down? Exactly.) She delivered a campaign that Paul McCartney’s publicist should be envious of. This falls on BRI, on the collective.
  
That Capitol has blocked a Dick’s/Dave’s Picks or FTD type series for the Beach Boys is horrible. But it’s been allowed to happen. That’s why I say Schilling and Kendall are the men for the jobs. Schilling is known and respected by all factions, knows where the bodies are buried and knows the business: records, film, licensing -- this guy saw it ALL at EPE. Kendall’s record as a radio plugger and multimedia cross-marketing expert are EXACTLY what this brand needs. Kendall also has a great rep with both the Love and Wilson camps.

The real blessing in disguise is that the Friends to Holland period (which was shunned by FM -- and now roughly 25 classic tracks that haven't been played to death) has finally found the outlets for exposure in TV and film. HBO’s Hello Ladies breathed new life into such obscurities as Hall & Oates’ 1975 track “Alone Too Long” and Gerry Rafferty’s 1979 “Days Gone Down.” It should be somebody’s JOB to get “Cuddle Up” into a film. “Feel Flows” will forever be tied to Almost Famous. That is the ONLY place that song exists to people that are not us.

You don’t wanna be friends, you don’t wanna tour and record -- got it. Fine. But EVERYBODY is getting their sh it together in regards exploiting their vaults and cross-marketing. The band needs to act and get the professionals in to keep this thing alive or The Beach Boys will absolutely end up no different than Bing Crosby -- save for the night when some chick butchers “God Only Knows” on some TV singing game show.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 11:11:57 AM by Howie Edelson » Logged
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« Reply #31 on: November 23, 2014, 11:57:54 AM »


That Capitol has blocked a Dick’s/Dave’s Picks or FTD type series for the Beach Boys is horrible. But it’s been allowed to happen.


When did this take place?  Are we taking about unreleased tracks, or concert recordings?  If concert recordings, other than something like Leid in Hawaii, how would Capitol have any say in the matter?  Did the old Capitol contract stipulate that any live recordings made while the band was under contract to Capitol could only be released by Captiol, even when the band was no longer under contract to them?  Even if that's the case, a big portion of BB live concerts that I'd gladly buy as CDs, downloads, or LPs  are from the post-Capitol era, especially the early seventies.  What is Capitol's objection to something like Dick's/Dave's/Follow That Dream? 

Totally agree with your take on the lack of vision and leadership at BRI, with resulting lost opportunities.

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« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2014, 12:17:14 PM »

Custom --

Due to various deals, there is no more "post-Capitol" era.

An interesting read. . .

The Who Gets Remixed to Reach New Generation in Ads | News - Advertising Age

http://adage.com/article/news/remixed-reach-generation-ads/295898/
« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 12:19:14 PM by Howie Edelson » Logged
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« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2014, 06:39:36 PM »

Go to any pop culture store catering to young hipster/music types. Count the number of Beatles T-shirts, bobble heads, posters, etc on the shelf. Take your time. Now, count the number of Beach Boys anything on the shelf. It won't take long, because the number will be 0.

Now, I know that Hot Topic isn't a barometer of what music is going to be considered classic down the line, and it certainly isn't a guage of quality.  But, it IS an indicator of which groups have managed to carve a place in pop cultural awareness with the younger crowd. Maybe the hipsters won't twig to Surfin' USA shirts, and Be True to Your School would be square.   But, Pet Sounds and SMiLE should be a different matter.

The question is, why isn't anyone working this angle? Bob Marley? He's cool. John Lennon? Got the shirt. Brian Wilson…. who?

Go ahead. Look.

http://www.hottopic.com/hottopic/Music/ShopByGenre/ClassicRock.jsp
« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 06:40:37 PM by Cyncie » Logged
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« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2014, 08:17:53 PM »

All of this stuff is great. It just needs to implemented. I love The Beach Boys and their music needs to be heard. More people in my age group need to know about all of this great stuff. People tend to listen to what they easily have access to. They don't dig for music and usually good music is ignored because of their ignorance. That's why their music needs to be licensed to television and movies. It would expose their music to a wide audience of people that may have no idea this stuff exists. Maybe someday all of this will happen to a larger extent.
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« Reply #35 on: November 23, 2014, 08:39:14 PM »

I remember seeing television ads for the TV movie "The '60s" and hearing the Beach Boys' "Don't Worry Baby" on the previews and being like "OH WOW."

Remember that TV movie (I think Carnie Wilson even appeared in it)? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0169528/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_8

I had been aware of the song, I'd heard the song a lot, my growing fandom had brought that into my orbit ... but I'd never heard it so isolated, with such a visual, with the drum sound so pronounced. It made me rush right over to my stereo and listen to the song a good four or five times in a row after.

The right use, the right promotion, the right grab, the right placement in advertising, promotion, movies, TV shows ... You're all right. There's no question. It makes a difference. Throw in a song that isn't so exposed elsewhere, it can be huge.

My dad brought to my attention that the Brian Wilson / BWPS version of "Good Vibrations" was used in the movie "Wild Hogs." Not a great flick, at all. Some moments that are snicker-worthy, but not one I'd recommend anyone spending more than a buck to see. Still, it WAS cool to see "Good Vibrations" in a movie (and that it wasn't the original hit version).

"Wild Hogs" info (note the cast ... how could it fail with Tim Allen, John Travolta, Martin Lawrence and William H. Macy?) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0486946/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

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« Reply #36 on: December 23, 2014, 12:15:04 PM »

Double posting this in the Love & Mercy reviews thread as welll as here because it contains a mention of both.

http://www.billboard.com/articles/6415027/music-in-tv-and-film-2014-frozen-american-idol-biopics

Quote
Looking ahead, Lionsgate purchased the Brian Wilson film Love & Mercy in Toronto and has it pegged for a June release with a soundtrack on Capitol

Sure sounds like a soundtrack is in the works to go along with the film.
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« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2015, 09:00:07 AM »

Spot on Guitarfool.

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve worked with major artists who are under the delusion that a new release will catch on with Classic Rock radio. That never happens. What radio is good for is TALKING about the new work, which is all the promotion it gets. A Stones “Doom And Gloom” is a best case scenario -- and that’s with the second biggest band in rock. Aerosmith was dumbfounded by their last LP having no traction. When and if artists ask me advice I always ask them who is pushing their material for the screen. They never know. Is it the label? Is it management? There truth is always NO ONE.

To bring this back to the Beach Boys, in a perfect world, six of the songs on TWGMTR should’ve been licensed to TV/film and/or products for commercial use by the time of release. The reality was the tour, which had A PLETHORA of pre-opening night snags, was always operating at "let’s see if this thing sticks" that such a deal couldn’t be nailed down. As of the pre-Grammy (no) show a good number of us were told that the tour was NOT happening. (Another story for another time). Rather than working the LP to radio -- which is WASN’T -- other than a promo mailed of the single and LP, there was no follow through. Now, Oldies radio, which was all over the 50th, would’ve gone apes hi t for a brief major affiliate “That’s Why God Made The Radio” acapella snippet sent with the call letters plugged in (a la  “Almost Summer.”) Smart business. That didn’t happen. The pushing of “Summer’s Gone” being a Jon Bon Jovi co-write -- press that would’ve added Classic Rock street creed, and a great sidebar to every story -- was a missed opportunity. Getting “Isn’t It Time” and “Spring Vacation” into a major motion pictures as a tie with the tour -- nothing. These are the things that generate profit and exposure. Touring is the meat and potatoes. Licensing is the bread and butter. It earns forever.

I don’t mean to harp on the 50th, but I’m using that as an example of why BRI needs people to bring this band/company into the aughts. And I’m nether laying blame on Joe Thomas -- because he made this ENTIRE THING happen, nor am I doing so to Jean Sievers, who kept this tour a top priority for outlets from the first show to the last (e.g. anyone hear any reports on how Tom Petty’s summer tour wound down? Exactly.) She delivered a campaign that Paul McCartney’s publicist should be envious of. This falls on BRI, on the collective.
  
That Capitol has blocked a Dick’s/Dave’s Picks or FTD type series for the Beach Boys is horrible. But it’s been allowed to happen. That’s why I say Schilling and Kendall are the men for the jobs. Schilling is known and respected by all factions, knows where the bodies are buried and knows the business: records, film, licensing -- this guy saw it ALL at EPE. Kendall’s record as a radio plugger and multimedia cross-marketing expert are EXACTLY what this brand needs. Kendall also has a great rep with both the Love and Wilson camps.

The real blessing in disguise is that the Friends to Holland period (which was shunned by FM -- and now roughly 25 classic tracks that haven't been played to death) has finally found the outlets for exposure in TV and film. HBO’s Hello Ladies breathed new life into such obscurities as Hall & Oates’ 1975 track “Alone Too Long” and Gerry Rafferty’s 1979 “Days Gone Down.” It should be somebody’s JOB to get “Cuddle Up” into a film. “Feel Flows” will forever be tied to Almost Famous. That is the ONLY place that song exists to people that are not us.

You don’t wanna be friends, you don’t wanna tour and record -- got it. Fine. But EVERYBODY is getting their sh it together in regards exploiting their vaults and cross-marketing. The band needs to act and get the professionals in to keep this thing alive or The Beach Boys will absolutely end up no different than Bing Crosby -- save for the night when some chick butchers “God Only Knows” on some TV singing game show.

Excellent post (as always) Howie.

Yeah, the Friends to Holland period is just stunning, unmatched by anyone.  I've not seen L&M yet but I hope the soundtrack is amply represented by Friends to Holland.
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« Reply #38 on: June 10, 2015, 12:04:09 PM »

After seeing the movie, I think a soundtrack album of the score doesn't seem like something you would sit down and listen to for pleasure, but instead put on as a background piece, like an Eno record.

But background for what? Studying for your psych exam?
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« Reply #39 on: June 10, 2015, 12:53:00 PM »

In a very recent Consequence of Sound interview, the director Bill Pohlad did say they were actively working on a soundtrack and that one would be released. This interview was published last week. FWIW.
 
http://consequenceofsound.net/2015/06/interview-director-bill-pohlad/
 
Here is the pertinent passage:

Quote
Your film handles Brian’s auditory hallucinations in a really incredible way. Was the idea to stitch together bits and pieces of Wilson’s music into a sort of haunting dissonance something you and [composer] Atticus Ross came up with together?

Yes. That was one of the exciting things for me as a filmmaker. Brian suffers from hallucinations, but they’re not visual hallucinations, which would be the normal thing. When you’re making a film, you can go to all those tried-and-true visual references to try and express those hallucinations, but this is auditory. I would talk to Brian and read things about those types of hallucinations and what they’re like, and I was really intrigued by the notion of trying to represent those.

The overall understanding I got from Brian and Melinda is that Brian hears these really complex melodies and arrangements in his head, and it’s part of his genius, but he also can’t turn them off. They became part of his madness as well. In trying to express all that, one thing that popped into my mind was “Revolution #9” off the Beatles’ White Album. That was something I was focusing on. When I was meeting sound people, Atticus was one of the first guys I talked to about that notion, and he picked up on it immediately. His experience, the things he’s done in the past as a producer and a composer, really lent itself to that kind of thing. He definitely took it and ran with it. That was really exciting.

Please tell me you’re going to release a soundtrack of that score.

We are. We’re working on it now. Unfortunately, these things get complicated when you’ve got a lot of bits from different songs and different eras, but we’re working through it, and it should be out soon after the film.

I'm still holding out hope that there is something released.  Call me a completist, I guess.
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« Reply #40 on: June 10, 2015, 12:55:35 PM »

Spot on Guitarfool.

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve worked with major artists who are under the delusion that a new release will catch on with Classic Rock radio. That never happens. What radio is good for is TALKING about the new work, which is all the promotion it gets. A Stones “Doom And Gloom” is a best case scenario -- and that’s with the second biggest band in rock. Aerosmith was dumbfounded by their last LP having no traction. When and if artists ask me advice I always ask them who is pushing their material for the screen. They never know. Is it the label? Is it management? There truth is always NO ONE.

To bring this back to the Beach Boys, in a perfect world, six of the songs on TWGMTR should’ve been licensed to TV/film and/or products for commercial use by the time of release. The reality was the tour, which had A PLETHORA of pre-opening night snags, was always operating at "let’s see if this thing sticks" that such a deal couldn’t be nailed down. As of the pre-Grammy (no) show a good number of us were told that the tour was NOT happening. (Another story for another time). Rather than working the LP to radio -- which is WASN’T -- other than a promo mailed of the single and LP, there was no follow through. Now, Oldies radio, which was all over the 50th, would’ve gone apes hi t for a brief major affiliate “That’s Why God Made The Radio” acapella snippet sent with the call letters plugged in (a la  “Almost Summer.”) Smart business. That didn’t happen. The pushing of “Summer’s Gone” being a Jon Bon Jovi co-write -- press that would’ve added Classic Rock street creed, and a great sidebar to every story -- was a missed opportunity. Getting “Isn’t It Time” and “Spring Vacation” into a major motion pictures as a tie with the tour -- nothing. These are the things that generate profit and exposure. Touring is the meat and potatoes. Licensing is the bread and butter. It earns forever.

I don’t mean to harp on the 50th, but I’m using that as an example of why BRI needs people to bring this band/company into the aughts. And I’m nether laying blame on Joe Thomas -- because he made this ENTIRE THING happen, nor am I doing so to Jean Sievers, who kept this tour a top priority for outlets from the first show to the last (e.g. anyone hear any reports on how Tom Petty’s summer tour wound down? Exactly.) She delivered a campaign that Paul McCartney’s publicist should be envious of. This falls on BRI, on the collective.
  
That Capitol has blocked a Dick’s/Dave’s Picks or FTD type series for the Beach Boys is horrible. But it’s been allowed to happen. That’s why I say Schilling and Kendall are the men for the jobs. Schilling is known and respected by all factions, knows where the bodies are buried and knows the business: records, film, licensing -- this guy saw it ALL at EPE. Kendall’s record as a radio plugger and multimedia cross-marketing expert are EXACTLY what this brand needs. Kendall also has a great rep with both the Love and Wilson camps.

The real blessing in disguise is that the Friends to Holland period (which was shunned by FM -- and now roughly 25 classic tracks that haven't been played to death) has finally found the outlets for exposure in TV and film. HBO’s Hello Ladies breathed new life into such obscurities as Hall & Oates’ 1975 track “Alone Too Long” and Gerry Rafferty’s 1979 “Days Gone Down.” It should be somebody’s JOB to get “Cuddle Up” into a film. “Feel Flows” will forever be tied to Almost Famous. That is the ONLY place that song exists to people that are not us.

You don’t wanna be friends, you don’t wanna tour and record -- got it. Fine. But EVERYBODY is getting their sh it together in regards exploiting their vaults and cross-marketing. The band needs to act and get the professionals in to keep this thing alive or The Beach Boys will absolutely end up no different than Bing Crosby -- save for the night when some chick butchers “God Only Knows” on some TV singing game show.

Excellent post (as always) Howie.

Yeah, the Friends to Holland period is just stunning, unmatched by anyone.  I've not seen L&M yet but I hope the soundtrack is amply represented by Friends to Holland.


Having not seen L&M yet, but I do know they brush through the early hits and focus on the time of PS and Smile, before jumping between that and BW in the 80s. It really adds to the myth that BW lay in bed from 1967 until the 80s. Again Wild Honey - Holland is ignored despite BW being very active at times and penning some tremendous songs during the period. 15 BO onwards is also ignored because it´s outright embarrassing and one rather pretend LY, MIU, KTSA etc never existed... and who can blame em?
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« Reply #41 on: June 15, 2015, 08:04:12 AM »

Having not seen L&M yet, but I do know they brush through the early hits and focus on the time of PS and Smile, before jumping between that and BW in the 80s. It really adds to the myth that BW lay in bed from 1967 until the 80s. Again Wild Honey - Holland is ignored despite BW being very active at times and penning some tremendous songs during the period. 15 BO onwards is also ignored because it´s outright embarrassing and one rather pretend LY, MIU, KTSA etc never existed... and who can blame em?

Not only does the movie suggest Brian laid in bed unproductive immediately following SMiLE, it has Brian himself saying the other Beach Boys were working on "Smiley Smile" without him even though he was all over the sessions and album itself.
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« Reply #42 on: June 15, 2015, 08:34:16 AM »

Having not seen L&M yet, but I do know they brush through the early hits and focus on the time of PS and Smile, before jumping between that and BW in the 80s. It really adds to the myth that BW lay in bed from 1967 until the 80s. Again Wild Honey - Holland is ignored despite BW being very active at times and penning some tremendous songs during the period. 15 BO onwards is also ignored because it´s outright embarrassing and one rather pretend LY, MIU, KTSA etc never existed... and who can blame em?

I would suggest seeing the movie before making these assumptions. It focuses so much on the two specific timeframes (66-67, mid-late 80’s), and everything else is non-formulaic enough, that there really isn’t any way, in my opinion, to come away assuming Brian stayed in bed after “Smile” until the 80’s.

I’ve never heard anyone suggest there is a myth that such a thing occurred anyway; the “myth” has really involved simply exaggerating his early-mid 70’s “time in bed.” And as far as that goes, this is one of the reasons you need to actually see the film. There is a scene where “80’s Brian” is asked by Melinda if he really stayed in bed for three (or some number, I can’t remember for sure) years, and Brian’s answer is perhaps one of the more telling moments of the film as far as the “myth” surrounding Brian. If anything, you come away with the impression that his “bed years” are partly if not completely a myth, one built up in part by Brian himself.

As far as ignoring other music from Brian’s career, that’s the whole point I think. That is, they didn’t do the traditional “biopic” thing where they cover all the years. First of all, that format usually ignores most of the material anyway (how much “Holland” material did you hear in “Summer Dreams”?). More importantly, the film is about Brian more than Brian’s music. Make no mistake, they integrate music into the film appropriately and the music content in the film gives the script context WAY more than most music-related dramas. But this isn’t meant to provide a thorough overview of his entire career. It’s more like “here’s a gifted, unique guy at two key musical and personal moments in his life.”
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« Reply #43 on: June 15, 2015, 10:32:30 AM »

One of the things I knew would elicit raised eyebrows is the fact that the film focuses primarily on periods 1965-1967 and 1985-1987.  By choosing to do this, LOVE & MERCY allows for a more intimate character study and portrait than if it had tried to hit all the highs & lows.  To say nothing of the fact that it would take many hours to tell a more complete story.  By contrast, AN AMERICAN FAMILY spends its first half on 1962-1965 and still you never get the sense that anyone in the film is but a mere caricature of what they really were.  The second half of that mini-series spans 1965-1974 and glides over a lot of the most fertile creative points that LOVE & MERCY dissects.

Obviously, it is my opinion that LOVE & MERCY is on a whole other level artistically from any tv movie or mini-series done about Brian (and the Beach Boys) before.  I would have been happy with a 3 hour version of this film but that's not very commercial.  The original draft for LOVE & MERCY, according to Oren Moverman, did include a whole section for 1970s Brian.  And likely would have gone more in depth about  "the bed years" and how Landy came into the picture in the first place.

I think what LOVE & MERCY is trying to give you though is snapshots from the other portions of Brian's life, outside of those years that are primary focus.  We see, over the opening credits, about 4-5 minutes worth of 1963-1964 high points.  The success and ascent of stardom is implied  and then we are effectively dropped into the life of Brian Wilson in 1965 (roughly).  I feel like I'm repeating myself but doing this is really an inspired method of storytelling, in my opinion.  So much of the peak creativity, with Brian being in complete control of all things having to do with the band, come from those years that are dramatized in the Paul Dano portion of the film.  We don't need to know why Murry was fired; it's fairly evident from the scene where Brian plays "God Only Knows" for Murry that he was likely dismissed due to his overbearing and negative vibes. 

Furthermore, regarding the period following SMiLE being left to the imagination; it is implied that Brian went from having complete control of the band (which he did) to ceding control after the failure of SMiLE to materialize (which he did).  The Beach Boys of course built a studio at the Bel Air house and recorded SMILEY SMILE, WILD HONEY, FRIENDS, 20/20, etc.  I don't think I'm telling tales here that Brian's involvement has always been said to have been spotty on those  Based on the documentaries I've seen, it's always said that 'Brian would occasionally come out of his room and contribute'.  Did he write some songs for those albums, yes.  But unlike prior to SMiLE, the "band" was allowed (or forced, depending on your point of view) to have a much more prominent role.  Do we really need to see that part of the story in a film about Brian Wilson

There are two shots, lasting no more than 4-5 seconds a piece), of 1970s Brian in bed.  Face obscured by robe and girth.  One early in the film, really the 2nd shot of the film and then another much later.  I'm not 100% certain but I think the film is told from all different angles.  Obviously the 1980s scenes are told from Melinda's POV.  But I think the 1960s are told from Brian's POV.  1970s Brian is laying in bed remembering, or it is implied that he is.  Thinking back on it, I believe all of the Paul Dano scenese are basically bookended with the two shots I'm referring to.  I think those images, even without a dearth of background on the context, convey a real heaviness and emptiness of what was once a very vibrant and creative mind.  We don't need to see anymore, I know I didn't.  Did Brian get out of bed in the mid 1970s and make one of my favorite Beach Boys albums (LOVE YOU) yes, but in toto he was a shell of man he was from 1963-1967.  And within the confines of a 2 hour film I think LOVE & MERCY conveys all of this masterfully.

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« Reply #44 on: June 15, 2015, 10:54:24 AM »


Furthermore, regarding the period following SMiLE being left to the imagination; it is implied that Brian went from having complete control of the band (which he did) to ceding control after the failure of SMiLE to materialize (which he did).  The Beach Boys of course built a studio at the Bel Air house and recorded SMILEY SMILE, WILD HONEY, FRIENDS, 20/20, etc.  I don't think I'm telling tales here that Brian's involvement has always been said to have been spotty on those  Based on the documentaries I've seen, it's always said that 'Brian would occasionally come out of his room and contribute'.  Did he write some songs for those albums, yes.  But unlike prior to SMiLE, the "band" was allowed (or forced, depending on your point of view) to have a much more prominent role.  Do we really need to see that part of the story in a film about Brian Wilson


Could not have said it better. I was going to elaborate on this but wanted to wait until after seeing it again tomorrow. Because things happened in the real world with Brian that are not seen in the film does not mean that the film is implying they did not happen. Its a 2 hour film about Brian and to elaborate on more and more periods of his life would not have worked in the context of the storyline.
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« Reply #45 on: June 15, 2015, 11:16:33 AM »

I would have been happy with a 3 hour version of this film but that's not very commercial.

Include an epic intermission and I'm sold.  We haven't had an epic intermission since... Kung Pow?
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« Reply #46 on: June 15, 2015, 11:25:51 AM »

Obviously, it is my opinion that LOVE & MERCY is on a whole other level artistically from any tv movie or mini-series done about Brian (and the Beach Boys) before.  I would have been happy with a 3 hour version of this film but that's not very commercial.

I'm hoping that Pohlad follows in the footsteps of Terrence Malick and releases an extended directors cut of this movie on Blu-ray. If there is ANY movie that deserves an extended cut it's definitely Love and Mercy. Totally give us the option to watch the original, but I'd love to see an extended version with at least 20 minutes of deleted scenes.

On a side note, I think many of us here saw one of the deleted scenes during the time Love and Mercy premiered in Berlin. A Berlin TV station released a segment on Love and Mercy and I remember they aired a scene where Carl was talking with Brian about how brilliant the 'You Still Believe In Me' backing track was...I think it was that track because that scene segued right into the vocal recording of YSBIM.

Anyways, glad to see this film is still getting rave reviews.
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« Reply #47 on: June 15, 2015, 11:46:16 AM »

Not only does the movie suggest Brian laid in bed unproductive immediately following SMiLE, it has Brian himself saying the other Beach Boys were working on "Smiley Smile" without him even though he was all over the sessions and album itself.

Well it had points to hit without getting to deep. So I can easily overlook those.
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« Reply #48 on: June 15, 2015, 12:14:50 PM »

Obviously, it is my opinion that LOVE & MERCY is on a whole other level artistically from any tv movie or mini-series done about Brian (and the Beach Boys) before.  I would have been happy with a 3 hour version of this film but that's not very commercial.

I'm hoping that Pohlad follows in the footsteps of Terrence Malick and releases an extended directors cut of this movie on Blu-ray. If there is ANY movie that deserves an extended cut it's definitely Love and Mercy. Totally give us the option to watch the original, but I'd love to see an extended version with at least 20 minutes of deleted scenes.

On a side note, I think many of us here saw one of the deleted scenes during the time Love and Mercy premiered in Berlin. A Berlin TV station released a segment on Love and Mercy and I remember they aired a scene where Carl was talking with Brian about how brilliant the 'You Still Believe In Me' backing track was...I think it was that track because that scene segued right into the vocal recording of YSBIM.

Anyways, glad to see this film is still getting rave reviews.

+1 on all of this.  I don't quite remember that scene completely for YSBIM shown briefly on the Berlin TV station; I remember the line "Let's listen to some tracks" and then the YSBIM vocals.  My memory is fuzzy on the rest of it. 

Oren Moverman said in some interview that the first cut he saw was 2 hours, 20 minutes.  Hopefully we see those, like you mention.  That would be amazing.  I'm not 100% certain on any of this but I think some of the scenes would include (from the screenplay):

- Extended scene that opens film (actually comes later in the screenplay) with Tony Asher (he is actually talking to Tony Asher, but this is omitted from the finished film to make it look as though Brian is thinking aloud.
- Extended PET SOUNDS sessions scenes ("God Only Knows", "I'm Waiting For the Day")
- A very brief interaction with Phil Spector
- A scene with Melinda and her mother
- Extended "Surf's Up" scene with V.O. from the Leonard Bernstein special
- A brief scene with VDP where he and Brian write "Heroes & Villains"
- Extended "Elements: Fire" scene

There's more but I'm just going off of memory.

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« Reply #49 on: June 15, 2015, 12:34:20 PM »

This is really at the heart of what being a fan of this music is all about. Having loved this music since 1973, the amount of "here comes a fantastic package of unreleased music....oh crap, never mind...here is another hits package for you. Just buy it." has been at the heart of the issues we have seen with this band. THEY don't really care (except monetarily) about releasing their unreleased tracks. It took JWG submitting an AWFUL tape to CBS in 1981 to get the group to pull together and get the TYOH discs compiled. Tho they have shown more interest lately (Mike helping on MIC), the group as a whole seems uninterested. Alan Jardine has been the only one who has consistently fought for such projects. I mean, how MANY SMiLE projects were promised before we finally got one? And lets be honest, as great as it was, it was WAY WAY TOO LATE! Not to get morbid, but the base for that kind of project is shrinking as we speak. The fact that two members of the group had already passed is testament to that. If these copyright releases like Keep An Eye On Summer are going to wait for the 50 year marks before being released, they might as well just hang it up.

It is going to take someone with not only the business savvy, but an actual love for this music to get it all out. I think we already have such players. But I also think they have been beaten down from the NO's they have gotten. Let's face it, why hire an Alan Boyd to be a custodian and a Mark Linnett as an archivist, if after a complete and exhaustive inventory of your audio and video holdings, you just say "Ok that's good. No we are not going to do anything with it. Thanks. Ship it all to Iron Mountain."

Hell, I am between jobs as a systems engineer. Call me LOL.
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