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Author Topic: Rank the tracks #21: Love You  (Read 54723 times)
Iron Horse-Apples
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« Reply #125 on: February 01, 2013, 09:14:31 AM »

If you're listening to the Beach Boys for the lyrics, with very few exceptions you're listening for the wrong reasons.

Absolutely, although I find the Love You lyrics the best of the bunch, along with things like Busy Doin Nothing and I'd Love Just Once To See You.

Inspirational.

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« Reply #126 on: February 01, 2013, 09:21:20 AM »

If you're listening to the Beach Boys for the lyrics, with very few exceptions you're listening for the wrong reasons.

Absolutely, although I find the Love You lyrics the best of the bunch, along with things like Busy Doin Nothing and I'd Love Just Once To See You.

Inspirational.



How about Games Two Can Play? That one really knocks me out. Still I Dream Of It, too.
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« Reply #127 on: February 01, 2013, 09:22:33 AM »

If you're listening to the Beach Boys for the lyrics, with very few exceptions you're listening for the wrong reasons.

Absolutely, although I find the Love You lyrics the best of the bunch, along with things like Busy Doin Nothing and I'd Love Just Once To See You.

Inspirational.



How about Games Two Can Play? That one really knocks me out. Still I Dream Of It, too.

Not a fan of Games Two Can Play, but Still I Dream Of It may be the best thing Brian ever wrote.
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« Reply #128 on: February 01, 2013, 09:33:52 AM »

If you're listening to the Beach Boys for the lyrics, with very few exceptions you're listening for the wrong reasons.

Absolutely, although I find the Love You lyrics the best of the bunch, along with things like Busy Doin Nothing and I'd Love Just Once To See You.

Inspirational.



How about Games Two Can Play? That one really knocks me out. Still I Dream Of It, too.
two of my favorite songs. And vocals, as well.
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Nicko1234
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« Reply #129 on: February 01, 2013, 10:21:16 AM »



Your other points amount to "Brian wasn't happy at the time" (and? We're talking about the work, not its creator -- though the fact that Brian has several times stated that the album is his favourite suggests he thinks highly of it now. Brian wasn't happy when he wrote Til I Die either) "the other band members weren't happy with it" (and I should trust Mike Love's aesthetic judgement over my own because?) and "it wasn't commercial" (which is no criterion by which to judge art).

No. Just, no.

My point as clearly stated was that because Brian was ill at the time he was content to release half-finished stuff. We know that Carl had to complete things (unless my memory is playing tricks and I'm happy to be corrected) which proves that. His poor mental health did then contribute to the songs being weaker than they should have been.

I think it's very obvious that if the Beach Boys had been in a healthy state they wouldn't have been releasing stuff like Love You. Nobody should trust Mike Love's judgment above their own but he and Al both knew the album wasn't up to scratch (from their perspective) and yet still allowed it to be released. Brian had lost interest by that point. That doesn't necessarily make it good or bad but it does show that the group were in a mess at the time. As I said, it may be only me who cares about that which is fair enough.

It's all about opinions though so not sure why earlier posters got heated anyway...
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Nicko1234
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« Reply #130 on: February 01, 2013, 10:23:51 AM »



I'm no different in real life, funny man!

No need for the bravado. You were pulled up for insulting someone just because they disagreed with your opinion. To boast that you are always like that doesn't do you any favours...
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« Reply #131 on: February 01, 2013, 10:28:44 AM »



I'm no different in real life, funny man!

No need for the bravado. You were pulled up for insulting someone just because they disagreed with your opinion. To boast that you are always like that doesn't do you any favours...

Actually, I, Spaceman insulted Mike's book right after Mike said called him an unpleasant person.
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« Reply #132 on: February 01, 2013, 10:29:43 AM »



Your other points amount to "Brian wasn't happy at the time" (and? We're talking about the work, not its creator -- though the fact that Brian has several times stated that the album is his favourite suggests he thinks highly of it now. Brian wasn't happy when he wrote Til I Die either) "the other band members weren't happy with it" (and I should trust Mike Love's aesthetic judgement over my own because?) and "it wasn't commercial" (which is no criterion by which to judge art).

No. Just, no.

My point as clearly stated was that because Brian was ill at the time he was content to release half-finished stuff. We know that Carl had to complete things (unless my memory is playing tricks and I'm happy to be corrected) which proves that. His poor mental health did then contribute to the songs being weaker than they should have been.

I think it's very obvious that if the Beach Boys had been in a healthy state they wouldn't have been releasing stuff like Love You. Nobody should trust Mike Love's judgment above their own but he and Al both knew the album wasn't up to scratch (from their perspective) and yet still allowed it to be released. Brian had lost interest by that point. That doesn't necessarily make it good or bad but it does show that the group were in a mess at the time. As I said, it may be only me who cares about that which is fair enough.

It's all about opinions though so not sure why earlier posters got heated anyway...

Brian was releasing half-finished stuff by his own established standards since Smiley Smile. Is that a bad album as well? This Whole World sounds like a brilliant trailer for a song, rather than a finished composition.
It is very obvious that if The Beach Boys were in a healthy state, Brian would have produced every Beach Boys album, and wrote 90% of them, as per the early works that are the group's legacy. Therefore, no 20/20, Unflower, Surf's Up, etc. Mike and Al may not have thought Love You was finished, but their idea of a finished album was the abysmal M.I.U. A rough, "half-finished" work by Brian has about a billion times the inspiration of a finished Mike-Al album of reworked Christmas songs.
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« Reply #133 on: February 01, 2013, 10:30:53 AM »



I'm no different in real life, funny man!

No need for the bravado. You were pulled up for insulting someone just because they disagreed with your opinion. To boast that you are always like that doesn't do you any favours...

You're not the moderator, leave it to Billy, Jason and Smile-Holland and stay out of it. No bravado or boasting, whatsoever.
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« Reply #134 on: February 01, 2013, 12:05:02 PM »

Okay, at this point it is done. No further discussion aside from the main topic. Things were said, feathers were ruffled, but it ends here.

Quote
Brian was releasing half-finished stuff by his own established standards since Smiley Smile. Is that a bad album as well? This Whole World sounds like a brilliant trailer for a song, rather than a finished composition.
It is very obvious that if The Beach Boys were in a healthy state, Brian would have produced every Beach Boys album, and wrote 90% of them, as per the early works that are the group's legacy. Therefore, no 20/20, Unflower, Surf's Up, etc.

A world without 20/20 thru Holland is a world I wouldn't want to live in. I must disagree with your assessment of This Whole World, as IMHO the melodic progression is incredible, and in such a short time. The song is perfect as is. One thing that must be kept in mind is the fact that post-Smile, Brian subscribed to the 'less is more' theory, and by his own admission felt that things didn't have to be a giant production in order to be artistic. One way of looking at it is up until Smile, Brian wanted to out-do Spector and everybody else, and was trying to beat them at their own game (and succeeded). Afterwards, instead of trying to beat out the Beatles and Spector, he just wanted to be Brian Wilson musically.
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Iron Horse-Apples
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« Reply #135 on: February 01, 2013, 01:05:09 PM »

If you're listening to the Beach Boys for the lyrics, with very few exceptions you're listening for the wrong reasons.

Absolutely, although I find the Love You lyrics the best of the bunch, along with things like Busy Doin Nothing and I'd Love Just Once To See You.

Inspirational.



How about Games Two Can Play? That one really knocks me out. Still I Dream Of It, too.

Yep, love the lyrics / melody / chords to Games. Another oft overlooked classic.
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« Reply #136 on: February 01, 2013, 01:36:11 PM »

Some of Love You works for me, a big chunk of it doesn't. Bad off key vocals, abysmal lyrics and overuse of the farty synth is one thing but Love You's biggest crime is it suffers from too much weak songwriting.
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« Reply #137 on: February 01, 2013, 02:29:27 PM »

Love You's lyrics never bothered me at all. When I was a kid in the 1980s the music you'd most likely hear on the airwaves in West Germany was a thing called Neue Deutsche Welle (German New Wave), which was essentially a combination of very direct, sometimes awkward lyrics (occasionally bordering on nursery rhyme) and the fashionable synthesizer sounds of the time. So for me something like "Mona", "Let's Put Our Hearts Together", or even "Solar System" feels quite natural, there's really nothing wrong about it. The album is a bit quirky and a little bit bizarre, yes, and all the better for it as far as I'm concerned. I always felt writing and arranging in that particular style is a legitimate way of expressing oneself through pop music.
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« Reply #138 on: February 01, 2013, 02:42:09 PM »

As an naive early teen, with scant understanding/realisation of the complexity of Brian and the BB's personal and political situations, and the complexity and breadth of their musical output, I fell for Love You on first spin, being able to take it at face value and unsubject to the influence of over-analysis or catalog comparison.

My favourite from the canon, and to me, in the same vein as SUSA, ASL, Party and Smiley
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« Reply #139 on: February 01, 2013, 03:20:52 PM »

Okay, at this point it is done. No further discussion aside from the main topic. Things were said, feathers were ruffled, but it ends here.

Quote
Brian was releasing half-finished stuff by his own established standards since Smiley Smile. Is that a bad album as well? This Whole World sounds like a brilliant trailer for a song, rather than a finished composition.
It is very obvious that if The Beach Boys were in a healthy state, Brian would have produced every Beach Boys album, and wrote 90% of them, as per the early works that are the group's legacy. Therefore, no 20/20, Unflower, Surf's Up, etc.

A world without 20/20 thru Holland is a world I wouldn't want to live in. I must disagree with your assessment of This Whole World, as IMHO the melodic progression is incredible, and in such a short time. The song is perfect as is. One thing that must be kept in mind is the fact that post-Smile, Brian subscribed to the 'less is more' theory, and by his own admission felt that things didn't have to be a giant production in order to be artistic. One way of looking at it is up until Smile, Brian wanted to out-do Spector and everybody else, and was trying to beat them at their own game (and succeeded). Afterwards, instead of trying to beat out the Beatles and Spector, he just wanted to be Brian Wilson musically.

I agree that the progression of This Whole World is incredible. But the structure of the song seems to be unresolved, and seems to end in progress. Which is great. I really like a lot of those era of Beach Boys albums, myself (tho I like Smiley, Wild Honey and Friends more). But I would love if we could get a glimpse of a world where Brian didn't abdicate.
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« Reply #140 on: February 01, 2013, 03:22:19 PM »

Some of Love You works for me, a big chunk of it doesn't. Bad off key vocals, abysmal lyrics and overuse of the farty synth is one thing but Love You's biggest crime is it suffers from too much weak songwriting.

The lyrics are great, as is the synth, and the songwriting is pure wizardo. The vocals are straight from the heart.
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« Reply #141 on: February 01, 2013, 07:51:22 PM »

Bad off key vocals, abysmal lyrics and overuse of the farty synth is one thing but Love You's biggest crime is it suffers from too much weak songwriting.

I'll grant you the off key vocals, some of the lyrics are abysmal, I don't necessarily think the synth was overused, but ... I have to respectfully disagree with you on the songwriting. Love You contains some of Brian's most creative, melodic, catchy, complex, fun, and Brian-ish (which is good) songs OF HIS ENTIRE CAREER! Just my opinion, I respect yours.
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« Reply #142 on: February 01, 2013, 08:47:21 PM »

I personally wish Brian would do an album like this today. Just him and a synth, singing about whatever.
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« Reply #143 on: February 01, 2013, 10:19:27 PM »

The first is that many of the lyrics are awful. How would people react if Mike had written the, 'We'll make sweet lovin'...' lines for example? 'Won't it be groovy?', 'If Mars had life on it', 'Now we can fly...' There really are too many awful lines to mention them all individually.
I don't get that impression at all. The impression I get is that the lyrics are deliberately goofy and amateur. It doesn't sound to me like he wrote bad lyrics because he was losing it, it sounds like he purposely wrote "bad" lyrics basically as a goof - like it's supposed to be a comedy album. If his mental illness had an effect on his writing here, it was that he couldn't think of serious lyrics anymore, so instead he chose to write about really mundane, everyday stuff in as goofy a way as possible. Imagine the guys in "The End" writing some music, and this is the album they would create.
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Nicko1234
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« Reply #144 on: February 02, 2013, 01:43:11 AM »


I don't get that impression at all. The impression I get is that the lyrics are deliberately goofy and amateur. It doesn't sound to me like he wrote bad lyrics because he was losing it, it sounds like he purposely wrote "bad" lyrics basically as a goof - like it's supposed to be a comedy album. If his mental illness had an effect on his writing here, it was that he couldn't think of serious lyrics anymore, so instead he chose to write about really mundane, everyday stuff in as goofy a way as possible. Imagine the guys in "The End" writing some music, and this is the album they would create.

Several of the songs were written as therapy for Brian though weren't they? Whether Landy contributed to the lyrics is still open to debate.
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« Reply #145 on: February 02, 2013, 01:43:27 AM »

Tricky to rank such a consistent album, but top spot and bottom spot are set in stone.

Most good to least good:

The Night Was So Young
Mona
I Want To Pick You Up
Good Time (miss the "Hey baby, turn up the radio" bit from the Spring version. Prefer the Spring versions of both this and "Had To Phone Ya")
I'll Bet He's Nice
Solar System
Johnny Carson
Airplane
Honkin' Down the Highway
Let Us Go On This Way
Let's Put Her Hearts Together
Ding Dang
Roller Skating Child
Love Is A Woman (It's not as bad as I once thought, but still bottom.)

Will these threads eventually be merged into the individual albums threads in the sub-forums?
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« Reply #146 on: February 02, 2013, 03:08:26 AM »

I personally wish Brian would do an album like this today. Just him and a synth, singing about whatever.

Sadly, I don't think we're ever going to hear another record quite like that. The man did one truly eccentric song on last year's album ("The Private Life of Bill and Sue") and most hardcore fans seemed to despise it.
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« Reply #147 on: February 02, 2013, 04:59:34 AM »

I personally wish Brian would do an album like this today. Just him and a synth, singing about whatever.

Sadly, I don't think we're ever going to hear another record quite like that. The man did one truly eccentric song on last year's album ("The Private Life of Bill and Sue") and most hardcore fans seemed to despise it.

I like that song!
Always stuck in my head.
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« Reply #148 on: February 02, 2013, 05:34:56 AM »

I personally wish Brian would do an album like this today. Just him and a synth, singing about whatever.

Sadly, I don't think we're ever going to hear another record quite like that. The man did one truly eccentric song on last year's album ("The Private Life of Bill and Sue") and most hardcore fans seemed to despise it.

And I thought that was the best thing on the album.
Probably the closest we've come since Love You is actually That Lucky Old Sun. Utterly different in production values from Love You, of course, but clearly from the same creative place.
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« Reply #149 on: February 02, 2013, 06:52:09 AM »

I love it too, in my opinion it's pretty close to the spirit of Love You and songs such as "Busy Doin' Nothin'" or "Games Two Can Play". Still, most listeners seemed to agree it's a "lightweight" song or even cringe-inducing. At this point I feel BW is mostly expected to write stuff akin to the common narrative of his personal "rise, fall, and redemption", complete with pleasant but unsurprising faux-Pet Sounds instrumentation. That's all perfectly fine but if I had to pick one song off of TWGMTR that really stuck with me it'd probably be "The Private Life" (either that one or "Pacific Coast Highway", admittedly).
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