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Author Topic: Rank the tracks #21: Love You  (Read 55960 times)
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« Reply #75 on: January 30, 2013, 10:47:41 PM »

in case anyone missed this in the other thread. my wonderful sweetheart embroidered this for me


one of my favorite albums by anyone ever.
too hard to rank but i'm definitely a side 2 guy.

I'll Bet He's Nice and The Night Was So Young are among the finest tunes Brian ever wrote.
I love I Wanna Pick You Up so incredibly much... it's probably my favorite thing on the whole album. Similar to When A Man Needs A Woman on Friends. Some fans don't seem too crazy about it, but for me those songs are the most Brian of all.

i will say that Mike's vocal on Airplane just about ruins it for me and he really stinks up Love Is A Woman too. Mike's vocals on these two songs alone are so much worse than anything Brian or the other guys laid down. I prefer the Brian-sung demos on those tunes and it's so great that the Love You demos exist. Let's Put Our Hearts Together is a demo gem as well.

love Honkin' and Good Time of course.
Johnny Carson exists in a universe unto itself, as does Solar System.

Let Us Go On This Way and Roller Skating Child are classics if slightly undercooked, in my opinion.
Mona and Ding Dang are fairly simple and repetitive, especially DD.
yet i love them both immensely.

what an album.




Quote
AND the scribble on the run out grove of the vinyl from Marilyn is just so cool (surprised no one else has mentioned it)

tell me more about this please.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2013, 10:55:03 PM by bossaroo » Logged
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« Reply #76 on: January 30, 2013, 11:33:48 PM »

That looks tight as hell...she did a great job!

I actually really like Mike's vocals on 'Airplane', as it serves a nice contrast to Brian's part.
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« Reply #77 on: January 31, 2013, 06:03:13 AM »

Wow...surprised to see Mona at the bottom of so many lists.

"Mona" is not the lowest ranked song on Love You when one compiles the info here. That "honor" belongs to "Love Is A Woman."

Here's what the song ranking looks like:

7 (out of 10)-The Night Was So Young (23/4), I'll Bet He's Nice (20/2), Let Us Go On This Way (20/2)
6-Airplane (13/2), Roller Skating Child (13/7), Good Time (11/6), Honkin' Down the Highway (13/5)
5-I Wanna Pick You Up (11/8), Johnny Carson (7/6)
4-Solar System (7/11), Mona (5/15)
3-Let's Put Our Hearts Together (4/14), Ding Dang (2/16)
2-Love Is A Woman (1/24)

Numbers (in parentheses) are the number of rankings in the top 5/bottom 5.

Overall rankings (adjusted to a 1-10 scale) are: Night Was So Young 7.93, I'll Bet He's Nice 7.52, Let Us Go On This Way 7.17, Airplane 6.21, Roller Skating Child 6.10, Good Time 6.08, Honkin' Down the (Gosh-Darn) Highway 5.98, I Wanna Pick You Up 5.24, Johnny Carson 5.02, Solar System 4.40, Mona 4.05, Let's Put Our Hearts Together 3.76, Ding Dang 3.43, Love Is A Woman 2.29.

These rankings are only for Love You tunes in relation to one another, of course, which limits their applicability. Still, interesting stuff...
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« Reply #78 on: January 31, 2013, 06:25:58 AM »

Wow...surprised to see Mona at the bottom of so many lists.

"Mona" is not the lowest ranked song on Love You when one compiles the info here. That "honor" belongs to "Love Is A Woman."

Here's what the song ranking looks like:

7 (out of 10)-The Night Was So Young (23/4), I'll Bet He's Nice (20/2), Let Us Go On This Way (20/2)
6-Airplane (13/2), Roller Skating Child (13/7), Good Time (11/6), Honkin' Down the Highway (13/5)
5-I Wanna Pick You Up (11/8), Johnny Carson (7/6)
4-Solar System (7/11), Mona (5/15)
3-Let's Put Our Hearts Together (4/14), Ding Dang (2/16)
2-Love Is A Woman (1/24)

Numbers (in parentheses) are the number of rankings in the top 5/bottom 5.

Overall rankings (adjusted to a 1-10 scale) are: Night Was So Young 7.93, I'll Bet He's Nice 7.52, Let Us Go On This Way 7.17, Airplane 6.21, Roller Skating Child 6.10, Good Time 6.08, Honkin' Down the (Gosh-Darn) Highway 5.98, I Wanna Pick You Up 5.24, Johnny Carson 5.02, Solar System 4.40, Mona 4.05, Let's Put Our Hearts Together 3.76, Ding Dang 3.43, Love Is A Woman 2.29.

These rankings are only for Love You tunes in relation to one another, of course, which limits their applicability. Still, interesting stuff...

Even if "Mona" isn't at the bottom, I'm surprised that it hasn't done better than it has.  I'm not too surprised that "The Night Was So Young" and "I'll Bet He's Nice" were the top two, but I would honestly have expected "Mona" to have come in somewhere not too far behind.  I guess that's just my own bias.
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« Reply #79 on: January 31, 2013, 07:35:24 AM »

Even if "Mona" isn't at the bottom, I'm surprised that it hasn't done better than it has.  I'm not too surprised that "The Night Was So Young" and "I'll Bet He's Nice" were the top two, but I would honestly have expected "Mona" to have come in somewhere not too far behind.  I guess that's just my own bias.

I hear you! I have similar feelings about "Got To Know The Woman" from Sunflower, which ranks near the bottom of that album's rankings--unjustifiably so, IMO.
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« Reply #80 on: January 31, 2013, 08:07:48 AM »

Here's my list Smiley

1 - The Night Was So Young
2 - I'll Bet He's Nice
3 - Love is a Woman
4 - Good Time
5 - Honkin Down the Highway
6 - Airplane
7 - Roller Skating Child
8 - Let Us Go On This Way
9 - Mona
10 - Let's Put Our Hearts Together
11 - I Wanna Pick You Up
12 - Solar System
13 - Johnny Carson
14 - Ding Dang

That's right, Love is a Woman is right up near the top. I love how Brian just goes with the harshness of it all (I'm not sure, but it almost sounds like there's a recorder in there along with a flute). I think the 1-2-3 part is just brilliant, too.

Edit: Just wanted to add that - The Night Was So Young... really gives me that Today feeling.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 09:39:01 AM by SgtTimBob » Logged

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« Reply #81 on: January 31, 2013, 09:30:00 AM »

  I do think Dennis and (before 1981) Carl were both genuine songwriting talents in their own right, and I think the others add a *lot* with their vocals

I absolutely agree, and I love Dennis's music and the best of Carl's. I'm just saying there isn't one of their songs I wouldn't trade for a top-flight Brian song. On the other hand, there are plenty of bad Brian songs I would trade for a good Dennis or Carl song.
It is just, in general, the view of The Beach Boys as some type of songwriting/production collaborative, has gotten way, way out of hand and needs to be redressed. The only reason anyone else produced anything, or started writing tunes for the band, is because Brian fell down on his job. Period. And all of it would have, and did stop for a couple of albums, as soon as Brian reassumed control. And that's the way it should be. Brian is the genius.
Half of why they started writing was Brian, half was a natural progression. He certainly wrote a lot in 1967-70, even helped Dennis get a good start with Little Bird.

Yes, but Brian ceding control of the band's output wasn't a natural progression.
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« Reply #82 on: January 31, 2013, 09:50:11 AM »

  I do think Dennis and (before 1981) Carl were both genuine songwriting talents in their own right, and I think the others add a *lot* with their vocals

I absolutely agree, and I love Dennis's music and the best of Carl's. I'm just saying there isn't one of their songs I wouldn't trade for a top-flight Brian song. On the other hand, there are plenty of bad Brian songs I would trade for a good Dennis or Carl song.
It is just, in general, the view of The Beach Boys as some type of songwriting/production collaborative, has gotten way, way out of hand and needs to be redressed. The only reason anyone else produced anything, or started writing tunes for the band, is because Brian fell down on his job. Period. And all of it would have, and did stop for a couple of albums, as soon as Brian reassumed control. And that's the way it should be. Brian is the genius.
Half of why they started writing was Brian, half was a natural progression. He certainly wrote a lot in 1967-70, even helped Dennis get a good start with Little Bird.

Yes, but Brian ceding control of the band's output wasn't a natural progression.
20/20 is the posterchild of this progression, the other members tried to step-up but their material was still outdone by Brian's tracks from the vault. I think Sunflower's failure is what really killed Brian's desire to be in the BBs.
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« Reply #83 on: January 31, 2013, 10:19:39 AM »

  I do think Dennis and (before 1981) Carl were both genuine songwriting talents in their own right, and I think the others add a *lot* with their vocals

I absolutely agree, and I love Dennis's music and the best of Carl's. I'm just saying there isn't one of their songs I wouldn't trade for a top-flight Brian song. On the other hand, there are plenty of bad Brian songs I would trade for a good Dennis or Carl song.
It is just, in general, the view of The Beach Boys as some type of songwriting/production collaborative, has gotten way, way out of hand and needs to be redressed. The only reason anyone else produced anything, or started writing tunes for the band, is because Brian fell down on his job. Period. And all of it would have, and did stop for a couple of albums, as soon as Brian reassumed control. And that's the way it should be. Brian is the genius.
Half of why they started writing was Brian, half was a natural progression. He certainly wrote a lot in 1967-70, even helped Dennis get a good start with Little Bird.

Yes, but Brian ceding control of the band's output wasn't a natural progression.
20/20 is the posterchild of this progression, the other members tried to step-up but their material was still outdone by Brian's tracks from the vault. I think Sunflower's failure is what really killed Brian's desire to be in the BBs.

All interesting stuff. Question: would we think differently of the other guys' material on 20/20 if the Smile material hadn't been included? Or is the thought here that "Do It Again" and "I Went to Sleep" and "Time to Get Alone" eclipses the other material? It sure looks like 20/20 was a pretty canny effort to put all the eggs in a basket: new BW, milk the Smile myth, showcase Dennis' songwriting, expand the BBs sound into something more in tune with what was happening in rock. Sunflower is a more "organic" version of that strategy, with a more cohesive style (arrived at almost at random, however, via the back-and-forth with Reprise).

It strikes me that the internal dynamics got trickier once Jack Reiley was on board. It would be interesting to hear Stephen Desper talk about Jack's influence in this time frame...I don't think I've seen him comment on that anywhere. Surf's Up (LP and song as released in '71) is clearly the result of band politics, not good for Dennis and possibly another corner-turning moment for Brian, who had to feel that he was being used as ballast at this point. We then get Brian off with Tandyn Almer in what looks like his last sustained manic phase before he winds up planted in his four-poster for a sizable portion of the mid-70s.

Sobering thought: without all of this intrigue, and Brian's unique way of "opting out," would we have such a curious, amazing, contradictory record as Love You? With more professional (and clearly less self-aggrandizing) "help to stand alone" that Landy provided Brian in his first go-round, would the bizarre state of affairs that gave Love You a chance to exist simply never have happened?
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« Reply #84 on: January 31, 2013, 10:51:09 AM »

Wow...surprised to see Mona at the bottom of so many lists.

I love Mona. I put it third on my list, but it could have just as easily been 1 or 2 for me. Fat synth line. Great groove. Whatever conflicted, or even negative feelings I might have for *some* of the tracks on the album, that's never been one of them.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 11:22:17 AM by Dave Modny » Logged
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« Reply #85 on: January 31, 2013, 01:01:56 PM »

 I do think Dennis and (before 1981) Carl were both genuine songwriting talents in their own right, and I think the others add a *lot* with their vocals

I absolutely agree, and I love Dennis's music and the best of Carl's. I'm just saying there isn't one of their songs I wouldn't trade for a top-flight Brian song. On the other hand, there are plenty of bad Brian songs I would trade for a good Dennis or Carl song.
It is just, in general, the view of The Beach Boys as some type of songwriting/production collaborative, has gotten way, way out of hand and needs to be redressed. The only reason anyone else produced anything, or started writing tunes for the band, is because Brian fell down on his job. Period. And all of it would have, and did stop for a couple of albums, as soon as Brian reassumed control. And that's the way it should be. Brian is the genius.
Half of why they started writing was Brian, half was a natural progression. He certainly wrote a lot in 1967-70, even helped Dennis get a good start with Little Bird.

Yes, but Brian ceding control of the band's output wasn't a natural progression.
Those around then who worked with the group see it differently.
Part of Brian resented it, part of him liked being A Beach Boy instead of THE Beach Boy. There was a good group feeling going for two-three years. In those years Brian was in good enough shape to decide when he would or wouldn't participate, and everything was dropped when he wanted to wrk,
The situation in 1976 was Brian being put in charge even though he wasn't in great shape. You can hear that, and maybe Love You sounds slightly cruel for it. Sure it's a clear picture of Brian but a pretty sad one.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 01:04:54 PM by Mike Eder » Logged
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« Reply #86 on: January 31, 2013, 01:07:56 PM »

  I do think Dennis and (before 1981) Carl were both genuine songwriting talents in their own right, and I think the others add a *lot* with their vocals

I absolutely agree, and I love Dennis's music and the best of Carl's. I'm just saying there isn't one of their songs I wouldn't trade for a top-flight Brian song. On the other hand, there are plenty of bad Brian songs I would trade for a good Dennis or Carl song.
It is just, in general, the view of The Beach Boys as some type of songwriting/production collaborative, has gotten way, way out of hand and needs to be redressed. The only reason anyone else produced anything, or started writing tunes for the band, is because Brian fell down on his job. Period. And all of it would have, and did stop for a couple of albums, as soon as Brian reassumed control. And that's the way it should be. Brian is the genius.
Half of why they started writing was Brian, half was a natural progression. He certainly wrote a lot in 1967-70, even helped Dennis get a good start with Little Bird.

Yes, but Brian ceding control of the band's output wasn't a natural progression.
20/20 is the posterchild of this progression, the other members tried to step-up but their material was still outdone by Brian's tracks from the vault. I think Sunflower's failure is what really killed Brian's desire to be in the BBs.
Yes Sunflower not selling and the use of Surf's Up (until then he had final approval) kind of drained Brian's enthusiasm. 20/20 wasn't all old recordings from the vaults. Brian did a lot of new stuff for the album, some of which was not used.
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« Reply #87 on: January 31, 2013, 01:14:57 PM »

Isn't that basically why Jeff Foskett dislikes this album too: for extra-musical reasons -- Brian's well-being at this point in his life -- rather than the music per se? That seems a little silly to me, honestly. It'd be like disliking Let's Get It On because Marvin Gaye's drive for that album was him wanting to f*** his (if I recall correctly) teenaged girlfriend.
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« Reply #88 on: January 31, 2013, 01:26:38 PM »

 I do think Dennis and (before 1981) Carl were both genuine songwriting talents in their own right, and I think the others add a *lot* with their vocals

I absolutely agree, and I love Dennis's music and the best of Carl's. I'm just saying there isn't one of their songs I wouldn't trade for a top-flight Brian song. On the other hand, there are plenty of bad Brian songs I would trade for a good Dennis or Carl song.
It is just, in general, the view of The Beach Boys as some type of songwriting/production collaborative, has gotten way, way out of hand and needs to be redressed. The only reason anyone else produced anything, or started writing tunes for the band, is because Brian fell down on his job. Period. And all of it would have, and did stop for a couple of albums, as soon as Brian reassumed control. And that's the way it should be. Brian is the genius.
Half of why they started writing was Brian, half was a natural progression. He certainly wrote a lot in 1967-70, even helped Dennis get a good start with Little Bird.

Yes, but Brian ceding control of the band's output wasn't a natural progression.
Those around then who worked with the group see it differently.


Most people who are fans of an album entitled Pet Sounds see it differently. Brian is the architect, he is the great talent of the group in compositional and production terms, and relative to each group's excellence, the later Beach Boys albums are similar to Creedence Clearwater Revival's last album. It doesn't matter if Brian did not want to do everything, the fact is that the group was better when he did. History has recorded the fact that Brian's work is the material that is the group's everlasting legacy. Many folks, including a lot of talented musicians in their own right, would argue that Love You is a part of that legacy.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 01:31:58 PM by I. Spaceman » Logged

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« Reply #89 on: January 31, 2013, 01:41:53 PM »

We aren't talking about music history, the group got along with Brian and he with them for the most part during the late sixties. It wasn't this stealing the band thing. Brian again was unqiue, but even Pet Sounds wouldn't be what it is with the voices of the rest of the group. I never have seen Love You held up to Pet Sounds even once except this post.
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« Reply #90 on: January 31, 2013, 02:07:47 PM »

We aren't talking about music history, the group got along with Brian and he with them for the most part during the late sixties. It wasn't this stealing the band thing. Brian again was unqiue, but even Pet Sounds wouldn't be what it is with the voices of the rest of the group. I never have seen Love You held up to Pet Sounds even once except this post.

I wasn't holding Love You up to Pet Sounds, or comparing them in any way. With that type of comprehension, I'm surprised you are an author.
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« Reply #91 on: January 31, 2013, 02:12:10 PM »

No need to get hostile. It did look like you were holding up Love You to Pet Sounds, cause that's how I read it as well. It wasn't until I went back and read it for this post that I caught what you were actually saying. And really, nobody was talking about Pet Sounds until you brought it up. Pet Sounds and Love You are so different they might as well be written by two different people. In a way, they were.

Thing is...in the grand scheme of things, who really cares? The band's output is so diverse that most people aren't going to like all eras of the band. I myself happen to prefer the group's work after Brian pulled back a little, and actually Brian's 'post-glory days' work, but a lot of people don't. I can accept that, because my own enjoyment is based on the music rather than other people's opinions on my opinion.
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« Reply #92 on: January 31, 2013, 02:21:40 PM »

Well, I'm sorry that is how you read it. Nowhere did I compare the two. But the two albums are just as personal to Brian, now that you mention it, and he seems to have better memories of Love You.
It's cool, folks, enjoy your later BB Jardine songs about wind blowing through the Redwoods and cosmic oceans flowing through everyone's hearts. I'll groove with Brian, watching the TV, then heading to the piano to write about whatever he just watched. To me, and maybe some others, the genius of the band rests far more heavily upon the latter than the former.
There's no need to get hostile about Love You. Love wins over negativity.
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« Reply #93 on: January 31, 2013, 02:23:19 PM »


Thing is...in the grand scheme of things, who really cares? 

Then......WHY IS THERE A MESSAGE BOARD?
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« Reply #94 on: January 31, 2013, 02:26:36 PM »

Quote
It's cool, folks, enjoy your later BB Jardine songs about wind blowing through the Redwoods and cosmic oceans flowing through everyone's hearts. I'll groove with Brian, watching the TV, then heading to the piano to write about whatever he just watched. To me, and maybe some others, the genius of the band rests far more heavily upon the latter than the former.

Actually, I prefer the early to mid-70s work from the band, and Brian's unreleased work from the late 70s, for what it's worth.
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« Reply #95 on: January 31, 2013, 02:59:09 PM »

We aren't talking about music history, the group got along with Brian and he with them for the most part during the late sixties. It wasn't this stealing the band thing. Brian again was unqiue, but even Pet Sounds wouldn't be what it is with the voices of the rest of the group. I never have seen Love You held up to Pet Sounds even once except this post.

I wasn't holding Love You up to Pet Sounds, or comparing them in any way. With that type of comprehension, I'm surprised you are an author.

I am. Love You is at least as good as Pet Sounds, and maybe better than it.
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« Reply #96 on: January 31, 2013, 03:03:00 PM »

We aren't talking about music history, the group got along with Brian and he with them for the most part during the late sixties. It wasn't this stealing the band thing. Brian again was unqiue, but even Pet Sounds wouldn't be what it is with the voices of the rest of the group. I never have seen Love You held up to Pet Sounds even once except this post.

I wasn't holding Love You up to Pet Sounds, or comparing them in any way. With that type of comprehension, I'm surprised you are an author.

I am. Love You is at least as good as Pet Sounds, and maybe better than it.

Agreed! That's why I'd never compare them.  police
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« Reply #97 on: January 31, 2013, 03:09:28 PM »

We aren't talking about music history, the group got along with Brian and he with them for the most part during the late sixties. It wasn't this stealing the band thing. Brian again was unqiue, but even Pet Sounds wouldn't be what it is with the voices of the rest of the group. I never have seen Love You held up to Pet Sounds even once except this post.

I wasn't holding Love You up to Pet Sounds, or comparing them in any way. With that type of comprehension, I'm surprised you are an author.

I am. Love You is at least as good as Pet Sounds, and maybe better than it.

I feel the same way about it. Love You is not the kind of album to ever make the top spot of Rolling Stone's "greatest 60s pop / 80s U2 / 90s Radiohead records of all time" list. Instead it's the kind of album that reminds you that pop music should be judged on the basis of personal emotional impact first and foremost.
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« Reply #98 on: January 31, 2013, 03:53:08 PM »

We aren't talking about music history, the group got along with Brian and he with them for the most part during the late sixties. It wasn't this stealing the band thing. Brian again was unqiue, but even Pet Sounds wouldn't be what it is with the voices of the rest of the group. I never have seen Love You held up to Pet Sounds even once except this post.

I wasn't holding Love You up to Pet Sounds, or comparing them in any way. With that type of comprehension, I'm surprised you are an author.

I am. Love You is at least as good as Pet Sounds, and maybe better than it.

I feel the same way about it. Love You is not the kind of album to ever make the top spot of Rolling Stone's "greatest 60s pop / 80s U2 / 90s Radiohead records of all time" list. Instead it's the kind of album that reminds you that pop music should be judged on the basis of personal emotional impact first and foremost.



That's absolutely true. But, only if one accepts the notion that LY is automatically going to give someone an emotional thrill from start to finish, or conversely, there's something wrong with, uneducated about, or lacking in the listener if they don't get that thrill.  And, that's the crux of it all: Music is still a personal, aural experience, and one man's gold is another man's garbage. Personally, I value that experience over any sort of dissection as to whether or not I'm supposed to love or accept LY simply because it's a window into the world of Brian Wilson or his perceived genius at the time. So was Sweet Insanity for when it was made, but personally (again), I'd rather gouge my eyes out than listen to the majority of that later record. Thus, I *think* that's what Mike's trying to say: He's simply not moved by, has individual issues with LY as a musical experience, has other sonic preferences, sees faults in some aspects, etc. And for the record, I mostly like Love You as a whole, though I have issues with aspects and parts of it. Some serious.

I also don't get the having to choose one or another mindset. For example, having to choose between a Brian Wilson song or an Al Jardine song. Again, I prefer to judge each on its own merits and how it personally moves me. And despite Denis Wilson's iconic declaration, they're still called The Beach Boys...not "The Brian Wilsons." And that's what's brought me to the table as a fan for nearly 40 years. The sum. For better or worse.

And sometimes...there's a lot of "worse" there. Smiley.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 03:54:18 PM by Dave Modny » Logged
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« Reply #99 on: January 31, 2013, 04:00:21 PM »

Well said, Dave.
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