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Author Topic: Quantization on 50th Tour  (Read 5764 times)
desmondo
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« on: May 11, 2012, 04:41:06 AM »

There is definitely some live quantization of Cowswill's kick drum pattern going on here - I am a drummer and I know what I am talking about - you can hear the "1 and" note is early and has obviously been moved by the AQS (Automatic Quantization Software) badly because its shifted it too much

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80mT5zgfthA

Proof at when the snare comes in
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hypehat
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« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2012, 04:42:33 AM »

But no auto-tune, right?  Wink
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desmondo
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« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2012, 04:45:13 AM »

But no auto-tune, right?  Wink

What on the drums?Huh?
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Richard
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« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2012, 04:47:56 AM »

i dont' know what you'e talking about ._.
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hypehat
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« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2012, 04:55:20 AM »

I hear a drum hit. Nothing early about it.

You're the one telling us we're all insane on the Auto-Tune thread, and you're trying to say they're programming Cowsill's beats live? At least auto-tune makes some sense  given Brian's shaky vocals, but Cowsill is a sound drummer. Why would they?
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All roads lead to Kokomo. Exhaustive research in time travel has conclusively proven that there is no alternate universe WITHOUT Kokomo. It would've happened regardless.
What is this "life" thing you speak of ?

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Syncopate it? In front of all these people?!
AndrewHickey
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« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2012, 05:01:31 AM »

How would that even work?

I've never heard of quantising being used live, but assuming it can be done, how could it *possibly* have moved the kick drum so it would sound *early*? That would require a time machine.

I have absolutely no doubt that they're using every single bit of technology at their disposal to make the shows sound as clean as possible, whether or not the technology actually improves things, so I wouldn't put it past them to fiddle with the feel of one of the best live drummers I've ever seen, but what you're saying doesn't make sens unless I'm missing something...

Also, I don't hear any problems with the drum part in that, other than that he seems to be playing a little hard.
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hypehat
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« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2012, 05:14:36 AM »

How would that even work?

I've never heard of quantising being used live, but assuming it can be done, how could it *possibly* have moved the kick drum so it would sound *early*? That would require a time machine.


Yeah, there is also that.
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All roads lead to Kokomo. Exhaustive research in time travel has conclusively proven that there is no alternate universe WITHOUT Kokomo. It would've happened regardless.
What is this "life" thing you speak of ?

Quote from: Al Jardine
Syncopate it? In front of all these people?!
seltaeb1012002
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« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2012, 05:17:01 AM »

 LOL
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Autotune
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« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2012, 05:20:13 AM »

1- David's presence in the DIA session was fake for the video
2- no Blondie and Ricky
3- Brian did not write the cosa nostra-related single
4- Brian is autotuned in concerts
5- the album's gonna be unbearable due to compression
6- Cowsill's drums are Robotized

Gee, this reunion's gotta suck. Roll Eyes



Thank God audiophile fans don't make any decisions.
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desmondo
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« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2012, 05:20:33 AM »

How would that even work?

I've never heard of quantising being used live, but assuming it can be done, how could it *possibly* have moved the kick drum so it would sound *early*? That would require a time machine.

I have absolutely no doubt that they're using every single bit of technology at their disposal to make the shows sound as clean as possible, whether or not the technology actually improves things, so I wouldn't put it past them to fiddle with the feel of one of the best live drummers I've ever seen, but what you're saying doesn't make sens unless I'm missing something...

Also, I don't hear any problems with the drum part in that, other than that he seems to be playing a little hard.

.......and rushing - hence the Q
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« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2012, 05:41:14 AM »

Could you possibly tell us how that works?
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« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2012, 05:47:42 AM »

1- David's presence in the DIA session was fake for the video
2- no Blondie and Ricky
3- Brian did not write the cosa nostra-related single
4- Brian is autotuned in concerts
5- the album's gonna be unbearable due to compression
6- Cowsill's drums are Robotized

Gee, this reunion's gotta suck. Roll Eyes



Thank God audiophile fans don't make any decisions.

I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY. And am every day glad that my hearing hasn't been ruined by audiophilia -- I can still enjoy things without ever knowing/caring about crap like that.
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desmondo
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« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2012, 05:51:39 AM »

Could you possibly tell us how that works?

Well simply

Song bpms are fed into whatever processor is being used and also the level of quantization required - quarter notes, eighth notes, 16ths or whatever depending on time signature, tempo etc - drums are fed into this and quantised as they are played - so if for example a kick is late the processor will move it forward to where it should be based on the grid and vice versa - the level set will depend on how good the drummers time is - over quantize and it will sound absolutely sh*t - probably quarters or eighths are best because of the space between them - 16ths and 32nds will cause a problem because of how accurate drummers need to be at this level and the little space between each virtual note

« Last Edit: May 11, 2012, 06:22:32 AM by desmondo » Logged

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AndrewHickey
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« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2012, 06:19:07 AM »

drums are fed into this and quantised as they are played - so if for example a kick is late the processor will move it forward to where it should be based on the grid and vice versa

Again, this is simply impossible. What you're describing would not only break the laws of physics, but it would break them in such a way that the result was non-Turing-computable, which would mean that even were it physically possible for such an effect to happen, the computer wouldn't be able to do it!
You can't play a live drum late and have the sound come out on time.
What you're describing would require the invention not only of a time machine, but also of a quantum computer that would be able to run its calculations in infinite simultaneous universes -- and not just a 'normal' quantum computer, either (those are PSPACE-reducible) but one that would rely on a new, as yet, theoretically-undiscovered form of quantum computing (although it's *possible* that you wouldn't need that if you could put a normal computer in orbit around a rotating black hole).

I would suggest that it is quite unlikely that the first sign we'd get of such technical developments is that a drum part in a Beach Boys gig would sound slightly off to one person but not to some others...

If you'd said that Cowsill played the drum early and the quantising program had moved it late, I might possibly have believed you, even though I've never heard of anyone using quantising live and can find no evidence on google of anyone ever doing so. But to say he played late and the quantiser moved it early is so far beyond the realms of what is possible using not only current technology but known-theoretically-possible technology (and if the strong form of the Church-Turing hypothesis is correct, may not even be logically possible under any circumstances at all) that I have no hesitation here in saying you're just wrong.
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« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2012, 06:33:00 AM »

The idea of a rich rock band touring with a hired drummer who needs a computer to get his drum parts tight seems pretty unlikely to me.
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AndrewHickey
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« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2012, 06:38:45 AM »

The idea of a rich rock band touring with a hired drummer who needs a computer to get his drum parts tight seems pretty unlikely to me.

That in itself doesn't seem unlikely to me. If such technology existed, it would make perfect sense for it to be in use. Nobody's perfect, people make mistakes, and it wouldn't be tha much different than using a click, for example. Cowsill very clearly *doesn't* need anything to keep him in time -- just like he almost certainly doesn't need a click -- but it would make sense to have a safety net there just in case.

The problem is just that the safety net described by desmondo -- unless he's meaning something very different but expressing himself badly -- can't possibly exist.
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« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2012, 06:56:38 AM »

Is this real life?
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Emdeeh
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« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2012, 07:06:09 AM »

What about Nelson Bragg? He's playing drums and percussion right next to Cowsill.
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desmondo
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« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2012, 07:23:50 AM »

What about Nelson Bragg? He's playing drums and percussion right next to Cowsill.

Nelson Bragg plays percussion and will be using Cowswill as the time keeper
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« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2012, 07:24:18 AM »

Nah, clearly the Beach Boys sound crew have perfected the art of quantum physics!
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All roads lead to Kokomo. Exhaustive research in time travel has conclusively proven that there is no alternate universe WITHOUT Kokomo. It would've happened regardless.
What is this "life" thing you speak of ?

Quote from: Al Jardine
Syncopate it? In front of all these people?!
rab2591
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« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2012, 07:56:33 AM »

that made my day LOL
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« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2012, 08:06:33 AM »

This whole thread is one big "SO WHAT Huh" to me.

The only thing that seems likely is that Cowsill could be playing to a click track having noted the ideal tempos of each song. These tempos (tempi ?) would have been agreed on during rehearsals by the band and the musical director (Totten, Sahanaja, Foskett, whoever).

One big fuss about nothing in particular - Cowsill's an excellent drummer, any click or safety net would only be in place to ensure consistency.
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AndrewHickey
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« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2012, 08:17:55 AM »

Nah, clearly the Beach Boys sound crew have perfected the art of quantum physics!

Mike meditated so hard he became one with the universe and is able to rewrite the laws of cause and effect to suit himself. However, because he is so humble and self-effacing, he only uses those powers to do minor good works like correct a kick-drum part. I bet that's it.
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« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2012, 08:24:12 AM »

How would that even work?

I've never heard of quantising being used live, but assuming it can be done, how could it *possibly* have moved the kick drum so it would sound *early*? That would require a time machine.

Awesome.
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« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2012, 08:24:40 AM »

You need good timin', but please let him wander. OK?
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