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Author Topic: A bit crap  (Read 16913 times)
Wirestone
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« on: April 20, 2012, 04:29:23 PM »

Gotta get this off my chest. The reunion really seems a bit crap now, doesn't it?

Car songs.

Surfin' songs.

Surfboards in promo pics.

"Beaches in Mind."

Not a single Pet Sounds song in the mini-set -- no WIBN, no GOK.

"Kokomo."

That hideous single cover.

Wal-Mart.

Jim Peterik writing the lead-off single.

Underwhelming, poorly mixed live appearances.

Utterly disengaged Brian.

I remember saying that I would expect the worst and hope for the best from this reunion. My expectations have been richly fulfilled.

All of you hepping yourselves up over this should calm down. It's not going to be the worst ever, but it seems like it will be richly embarrassing for anyone expecting anything with a smidgen of artistic integrity. Brian was on a winning streak with TLOS and BWRG. He's now singing songs from by Peterik and being produced by Joe Thomas.

How are you all blind to this? I have been trying so hard to think this will be good. But I've given up trying to defend the indefensible. These guys are cashing in, pure and simple. The album is likely going to have a couple of nice new BW things, some recycled stuff, and oodles of dross. No one is interested in pushing themselves -- only using Brian's band as a giant security blanket as they go through the motions of a coast-to-coast cash grab.

Depressing beyond belief.

EDIT: I would love to be proved wrong. I would so love to be proved wrong. But every step of this process has only increased my doubts, rather than assuaging them.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2012, 04:31:15 PM by Wirestone » Logged
Ron
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« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2012, 04:34:32 PM »

Dude, the Beach Boys are not what you think they are.  Here, let me explain better.

"Beach".  Lots of their songs are about the Beach.  They like the Beach.  Some of them LIVE on the Beach.  They know there's a surfboard standing behind them.  That's because they like Surf Boards.  As a matter of fact, they may have requested the Surf Board.  Brian Wilson likes Surf Boards. 

"Boys".  They like the stuff they did when they were young.


-------------

What it comes down to is, your bubble is being busted, you've built this band into something they're not inside your mind.  Yes, they did Pet Sounds.  Yes, they did "SMiLE".  Yes, they did many other things.  They also did Kokomo.  Brian's pissed he wasn't on Kokomo.

You're upset that they're not ignoring part of their history.  You're also kidding yourself if you think they're going to play a 15 song set, and NOT play surf music.  Of course they're going to play Surf Music! It's the only Music they ever sold! 

So the reason you're depressed, is because you're finally seeing what you thought was, isn't.

Meanwhile, some of us all along have accepted that the band is multi-facetted, and that possibly... MAYBE... there was brilliance and creativity, and greatness in those surf songs, too. 
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Ron
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« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2012, 04:36:01 PM »

These guys are cashing in, pure and simple. The album is likely going to have a couple of nice new BW things, some recycled stuff, and oodles of dross. No one is interested in pushing themselves -- only using Brian's band as a giant security blanket as they go through the motions of a coast-to-coast cash grab.

Again you're confused.

EVERYTHING BRIAN WILSON HAS EVER DONE MUSICALLY, HE DID FOR THE MONEY.

Sorry.  It's true.  It's also great.  Nothing wrong with being a musician and wanting cash.  He needs cash so he can adopt more kids, and buy more dogs.  I say good for him.
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« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2012, 04:36:12 PM »



This picture sums it up pretty well.... Mike Love, regardless of the words he wrote for the band early in their career, has given us mostly cheesy, hokey crap for the rest of it.

As for the Wal-Mart thing, it's not their fault, it's definitely the record label's. Capitol is going to squeeze as much cash out of the band as they can before the industry completely collapses.
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« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2012, 04:38:00 PM »

Also, you forgot to mention Jeff Foskett.  Tongue
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« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2012, 04:41:10 PM »

Dude, the Beach Boys are not what you think they are.  Here, let me explain better.

"Beach".  Lots of their songs are about the Beach.  They like the Beach.  Some of them LIVE on the Beach.  They know there's a surfboard standing behind them.  That's because they like Surf Boards.  As a matter of fact, they may have requested the Surf Board.  Brian Wilson likes Surf Boards. 

"Boys".  They like the stuff they did when they were young.


-------------

What it comes down to is, your bubble is being busted, you've built this band into something they're not inside your mind.  Yes, they did Pet Sounds.  Yes, they did "SMiLE".  Yes, they did many other things.  They also did Kokomo.  Brian's pissed he wasn't on Kokomo.

You're upset that they're not ignoring part of their history.  You're also kidding yourself if you think they're going to play a 15 song set, and NOT play surf music.  Of course they're going to play Surf Music! It's the only Music they ever sold! 

So the reason you're depressed, is because you're finally seeing what you thought was, isn't.

Meanwhile, some of us all along have accepted that the band is multi-facetted, and that possibly... MAYBE... there was brilliance and creativity, and greatness in those surf songs, too. 
Bravo.
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Ron
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« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2012, 04:42:20 PM »

It's not Capitols fault, it's BRIAN WILSONS fault.  You need to nip this sh*t in the bud and not be mistaken.  Brian Wilson would play a flea market taco stand if Capitol Records paid him enough money, and AGAIN, I say "No harm no foul".  He wrote music to make money, and because he's good at it.  This is his profession.  

All that sh*t about being 'underground' or a misunderstood artist, or doing it for artistic integrity, or 'not selling out' is spoken by LOSERS.  Any band worth their sh*t will eventually sell so many fucking records they'll all be multimillionaires, and millions of people you cannot stand will own their cd's.  

The Beach Boys (what, 3rd or 4th most popular band EVER?) sold out before they were out of HIGH SCHOOL.

Again; good for them.  
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♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇
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« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2012, 04:42:25 PM »

Car songs.

Surfin' songs.

Surfboards in promo pics.

"Beaches in Mind."
Not all promo pics have had surfboards.  Some have, and really that is to be expected considering it's the BEACH Boys. Likewise that song having that title. We should expect at least one or two new songs to have a title like that. The thing is...will it be good or not.


Not a single Pet Sounds song in the mini-set -- no WIBN, no GOK.

It's a mini-set. For this type of performance you need to have the biggest hits mainly.

"Kokomo." See above. Considering it was to date their last #1 hit (and likely last ever barring a miracle) it needs to be included.


That hideous single cover. Ehhh...don't mind it, but it could've been better.

Wal-Mart  Why not? Many acts have exclusive releases at Wal-mart.

Jim Peterik writing the lead-off single. Co-writing, but yeah, that's not the best thing ever.

Underwhelming, poorly mixed live appearances. Really should be  poorly mixed for TV live appearances. All two of them. The Grammy performance sounded much better from the audience recording that surfaced. Now if the actual tour sounds like that, then there's an issue.

Utterly disengaged Brian. He was pretty engaged during the Grammy performance, just concentrating more on his piano playing.

I think you're being way too harsh so far. When the tour actually starts we'll know. Besides, let's actually hear the new stuff before we immediately dismiss it.
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Wirestone
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« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2012, 04:45:21 PM »

I like Foskett!

But it's bizarre to watch the band doing what Brian has for so long been accused of doing -- going along with what everyone wants, taking the easy way out, etc., etc.

They could be doing something much more artistic and challenging. This is the thing, Ron. No one is asking them to change their name or abandon their rich legacy. They could have done something much more reverent of the music and their place in history -- and made just as much money and gotten just as much acclaim! If not more so.

Hell, they could have done Kokomo. Go ahead.

There's this false idea out here that somehow the reunited band faced a choice between being, I don't know, an art-pop act and big crowd-pleasers. They could have done both. They have nearly always been both. It's not betraying their legacy at all -- it's actually acknowledging and paying proper tribute to it.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2012, 04:46:18 PM by Wirestone » Logged
SMiLE Brian
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« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2012, 04:47:08 PM »

I don't get why people hate the early stuff so much, its timeless in representing the california myth and lifestyle of the 1960s.
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Wirestone
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« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2012, 04:47:16 PM »

I think you're being way too harsh so far.

That is probably true. I've had a tough couple of days.
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« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2012, 04:49:13 PM »

Quote
They could be doing something much more artistic and challenging. This is the thing, Ron. No one is asking them to change their name or abandon their rich legacy. They could have done something much more reverent of the music and their place in history -- and made just as much money and gotten just as much acclaim! If not more so.

Hell, they could have done Kokomo. Go ahead.

There's this false idea out here that somehow they had a choice between being, I don't know, an art-pop act and big crowd-pleasers. They could have done both. They have nearly always been both. It's not betraying their legacy at all -- it's actually acknowledging and paying proper tribute to it.

The time to do that has passed. That ship sailed in 1976.  At this point, all we should really hope for is that they sound good at the live shows and the album sounds good. I think I actually just proved your original point but that it's not as bad of a thing as it sounds. We just gotta hope it's not extra cheesy like the last 80s early 90s vintage BB. Again, the 'real' shows probably will have a lot more rarities. We shouldn't expect that for these one-off shows.


Quote
That is probably true. I've had a tough couple of days.

No worries bro. Believe me, I've had a tough couple of years! 'sides, this debate's fun, as long as nobody starts getting their feelings hurt. That's what Beach Boys fans do...we debate the sh*t out of sh*t! LOL
« Last Edit: April 20, 2012, 04:50:50 PM by Billy C » Logged

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Wilson Love
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« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2012, 04:49:41 PM »



This picture sums it up pretty well.... Mike Love, regardless of the words he wrote for the band early in their career, has given us mostly cheesy, hokey crap for the rest of it.

As for the Wal-Mart thing, it's not their fault, it's definitely the record label's. Capitol is going to squeeze as much cash out of the band as they can before the industry completely collapses.
What alternate universe have you been dwelling in not to know Mike Love has always been the front man for the Beach Boys? Cheesy and hokey from day one, I guess, but what you probably call the "early" days are in actuality the golden days of the band and Brian both artistically and commercially.. There seems to be a segment of fans of a certain age group that want to rewrite the bands history and cherry pick a small portion of the bands' career o fit their vision of what they think it should have been.
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Ron
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« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2012, 04:50:00 PM »

Wirestone:

As long as they don't do the surf songs, right?

what is wrong with you?  You want them to respect their legacy, but not play any of their hits?  What are you smoking, man?  If the Beach Boys do a show, and sell out, and don't play "Kokomo" there's going to be hell to pay.  If they don't play "Surfer Girl", there's going to be hell to play.  If they don't play car songs, there's going to be hell to play.

I've been to dozens of "Oldies" concerts, and there's NOTHING worse than going to a show where some arrogant motherfucker doesn't want to play the hits, and wants to play his less-understood sh*t music that nobody likes.

Just because you and I like it doesn't mean the general public does, they've never heard most of it.  I would LOVE for them to have done "Ding Dang" at this show but nobody else would have.  I'm alright with knowing they're going to stick, largely, to the hits.  

They did a couple songs that weren't hits, that wasn't enough for you?  What the hell were you expecting?  A live "Friends" album?  How much did that one sell the first time around?  
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Wirestone
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« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2012, 04:50:08 PM »

I don't get why people hate the early stuff so much, its timeless in representing the california myth and lifestyle of the 1960s.

I don't hate it. I was taken aback by the proportion of time it took up in the mini-set ...
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Chocolate Shake Man
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« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2012, 04:50:47 PM »

It's not Capitols fault, it's BRIAN WILSONS fault.  You need to nip this sh*t in the bud and not be mistaken.  Brian Wilson would play a flea market taco stand if Capitol Records paid him enough money, and AGAIN, I say "No harm no foul".  He wrote music to make money, and because he's good at it.  This is his profession.  

All that sh*t about being 'underground' or a misunderstood artist, or doing it for artistic integrity, or 'not selling out' is spoken by LOSERS.  Any band worth their sh*t will eventually sell so many f*cking records they'll all be multimillionaires, and millions of people you cannot stand will own their cd's.  

The Beach Boys (what, 3rd or 4th most popular band EVER?) sold out before they were out of HIGH SCHOOL.

Again; good for them.  

You're saying two very different things. One, that artists would be happy to make money off of their art. To that I say, of course. Now people who are generally wage-slaves typically like to convince themselves that people who aren't are just as much slaves to the dollar sign as everyone else. It's a fanciful idea and maybe self-assuring but it is also utterly absurd. Not everyone is in it to make money. There are many, many people who do what they do because they enjoy the work not because they enjoy the paycheque that goes with it. In order to believe otherwise, you'd have to ignore many, many professions and those who work in them.

The other thing being said as that popularity is somehow an indictator of quality which is so utterly stupid, it's not even really worth going into, is it?
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Ron
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« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2012, 04:50:59 PM »

I don't get why people hate the early stuff so much, its timeless in representing the california myth and lifestyle of the 1960s.

It's so great, I love listening to it... you can pick out all the brilliance the band reached later, in those early songs as well.  The reason the later stuff was so good, isn't because they developed into that, it's because they were ALWAYS great.  They were great when they recorded "Surfin".  
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« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2012, 04:52:57 PM »


So the reason you're depressed, is because you're finally seeing what you thought was, isn't.

Bingo.

A question to the OP:  when was the last time The Beach Boys actually did anything that didn't make you squirm?  I have no idea how you could've expected this Celebration tour to be limited of some of the things you've apparently grown to despise (surfing songs, car songs, surfboards in pictures)?  The Wal-Mart deal?  Who the hell cares?  It's not like they're releasing the actual album directly though Wal-mart..it's some promo magazine with a sampler CD.  Big whoop. 

You have every right to voice your displeasure with the very little that has happened in these recent months but as Ron points out, there was no other way this was going to end for you considering you were waiting on some very unattainable hopes and expectations for this tour.   
« Last Edit: April 20, 2012, 04:54:22 PM by Justin » Logged
Ron
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« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2012, 04:53:19 PM »

It's not Capitols fault, it's BRIAN WILSONS fault.  You need to nip this sh*t in the bud and not be mistaken.  Brian Wilson would play a flea market taco stand if Capitol Records paid him enough money, and AGAIN, I say "No harm no foul".  He wrote music to make money, and because he's good at it.  This is his profession.  

All that sh*t about being 'underground' or a misunderstood artist, or doing it for artistic integrity, or 'not selling out' is spoken by LOSERS.  Any band worth their sh*t will eventually sell so many f*cking records they'll all be multimillionaires, and millions of people you cannot stand will own their cd's.  

The Beach Boys (what, 3rd or 4th most popular band EVER?) sold out before they were out of HIGH SCHOOL.

Again; good for them.  

You're saying two very different things. One, that artists would be happy to make money off of their art. To that I say, of course. Now people who are generally wage-slaves typically like to convince themselves that people who aren't are just as much slaves to the dollar sign as everyone else. It's a fanciful idea and maybe self-assuring but it is also utterly absurd. Not everyone is in it to make money. There are many, many people who do what they do because they enjoy the work not because they enjoy the paycheque that goes with it. In order to believe otherwise, you'd have to ignore many, many professions and those who work in them.

The other thing being said as that popularity is somehow an indictator of quality which is so utterly stupid, it's not even really worth going into, is it?

I've went into it many, many times on this board, and

YES Quantity reflects QUALITY.  

PERIOD.  

You'll have to agree to disagree, because I've heard it all before.  

If you're a musician and you make a song 10 people like, great.  If you're Lil' Wayne, you're better.  Period.  
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Wirestone
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« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2012, 04:54:37 PM »

Wirestone:

As long as they don't do the surf songs, right?

what is wrong with you?  You want them to respect their legacy, but not play any of their hits?  What are you smoking, man?  If the Beach Boys do a show, and sell out, and don't play "Kokomo" there's going to be hell to pay.  If they don't play "Surfer Girl", there's going to be hell to play.  If they don't play car songs, there's going to be hell to play.

None of what you're saying I said are things I actually said.

Of course they play their hits. Of course they embrace their legacy.

It's a question of emphasis and proportion.
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« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2012, 04:57:01 PM »


I've went into it many, many times on this board, and

YES Quantity reflects QUALITY.  

PERIOD.  

You'll have to agree to disagree, because I've heard it all before.  

If you're a musician and you make a song 10 people like, great.  If you're Lil' Wayne, you're better.  Period.  

So Van Gogh hardly sold any art in his lifetime. In fact, it wasn't until about 20 years after he died did his work start to get an audience. So explain to me how his paintings got better in quality?
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« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2012, 04:58:12 PM »

As for that surf board. Yeah stereotype. BFWIW Bruce still surfs at almost 70! More power to him.
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Ron
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« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2012, 04:58:25 PM »

THE FIRST TWO THINGS YOU BULLETED WERE

Car songs.

Surf Songs.


So just own what you were saying! Don't play semantics, you're pissed they're playing car and surf songs.  Be a man, don't try to change what you're saying.  YOU DONT LIKE SURF SONGS.  

LOL  Just get with it man.  


BTW, Did you know Mike Love is going to be TELLING JOKES at every show?  Did you know they're all OLD now?  Did you know JOHN STAMOS is going to be there... a Lot?

Just quit while you've still got some kind of imaginary band in your head, man.  You're so confused about this it's just pitiful.

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« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2012, 04:59:30 PM »

Sounds like you needed a vent  - well done!

Personally, I find it important to differentiate between desires and expectations.

There's lots of things I would love our boys to do re these celebrations (including a visit to Melbourne if no where else in Australia   LOL)

I have expectations of what the boys will do, based on their behaviour over the past 30/35 of 50 years,  - and while none of my expectations have been exceeded (a desire), they're cranking out what I expected they would, and I'm going to go with what I can while I can.
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Wirestone
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« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2012, 05:00:20 PM »

A question to the OP:  when was the last time The Beach Boys actually did anything that didn't make you squirm?  I have no idea how you could've expected this Celebration tour to be limited of some of the things you've apparently grown to despise (surfing songs, car songs, surfboards in pictures)?  The Wal-Mart deal?  Who the hell cares?  It's not like they're releasing the actual album directly though Wal-mart..it's some promo magazine with a sampler CD.  Big whoop.  

They nearly made the Paley sessions into an album. Retro sounding music that was still artistically interesting. Soul Searching and YSAM are pretty good. I like the live version of Summer in Paradise. I like the Stars and Stripes version of Caroline, No. I like Don't Fight the Sea.

I love the band.

And I don't hate the surf or car songs. I do, however, see them as only a chapter in the lengthy life of an ambitious and confounding band. And a compelling tour could embrace the hits and the arty stuff and reap the band both money and acclaim. And the fact that the band doesn't seem to be seeing it that way is sadly telling.
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