New studio album (Ocean Way sessions)

[SMiLE Brian]

Of course musical history began 50 years ago, for songwritin teams. 

Are you mad?

The song, in it's present form can be dated back to at least Elizabethan times. That is to say a verse/chorus structure.

And I was being sarcastic about Lennon/McCartney.

It's time for the baby-boomers version of popular history to end. There was life before the 60's.

Well said, there was great music and culture way before the counterculture. Thats why American Graffiti was such a hit, it was a bittersweet portrait of American before the overrated events in the late 1960s happened. Screw woodstock or monteray, give me the TAMI show anyday with the Beach Boys rocking in their prime.

[Mike's Beard]

I don't trust tweeters. I'm a woofer man myself.

A woofer in tweeter's clothing.

[Mike's Beard]

the whole "everybody brings a few of their best songs" approach doesn't particularly appeal to me.

It's been the approach from 20/20 onwards

Point taken, and that was all well and good all members were alive, but this time around there's no Carl or Dennis to contribute good material (the latter especially), and I don't think I've heard Al or Bruce put out any decent original material in quite awhile.  So who does that leave...

If you want a good self-contained Beach Boys album with the best quality songwriting, I really think that Mike and Brian are the only legitimate shot we've got.

So, in other words, it's business as usual?  Oh that really sucks!  You mean all we have left is maybe the second or third best songwriting team of all time?  Damn I hate it when that happens. 

Second or third best of all time. You're not serious! I'd love to know what your first two are. Let me guess, Lennon and McCartney at number one. Of course!! Because musical history only began 50 years ago didn't it? Don't make ridiculous statements like this. I mean, I love Brian Wilson, and he is fantastic within his genre, but of all time 
Come on........

Of course musical history began 50 years ago, for songwritin teams.  I guess you could count Liszt and his wife but they didn't really write lyrics, eh?  Name 3 songwriting teams better than Wilson/Love.  I saw you named 1, it gets harder from there, huh?  Here's a clue: You're immediately off into musical land. 

Lennon/McCartney, Gershwin/Gershwin/Heyward, Lieber/Stoller

Exactly who I was thinking of.  Notice only two of them wrote Rock, so where's that put Wilson/Love?  Glad you agree with me!

Jagger/Richards, John/Taupin, Page/Plant.....  The list goes on.

[Jason]

the whole "everybody brings a few of their best songs" approach doesn't particularly appeal to me.

It's been the approach from 20/20 onwards

Point taken, and that was all well and good all members were alive, but this time around there's no Carl or Dennis to contribute good material (the latter especially), and I don't think I've heard Al or Bruce put out any decent original material in quite awhile.  So who does that leave...

If you want a good self-contained Beach Boys album with the best quality songwriting, I really think that Mike and Brian are the only legitimate shot we've got.

So, in other words, it's business as usual?  Oh that really sucks!  You mean all we have left is maybe the second or third best songwriting team of all time?  Damn I hate it when that happens. 

Second or third best of all time. You're not serious! I'd love to know what your first two are. Let me guess, Lennon and McCartney at number one. Of course!! Because musical history only began 50 years ago didn't it? Don't make ridiculous statements like this. I mean, I love Brian Wilson, and he is fantastic within his genre, but of all time 
Come on........

Of course musical history began 50 years ago, for songwritin teams.  I guess you could count Liszt and his wife but they didn't really write lyrics, eh?  Name 3 songwriting teams better than Wilson/Love.  I saw you named 1, it gets harder from there, huh?  Here's a clue: You're immediately off into musical land. 

Lennon/McCartney, Gershwin/Gershwin/Heyward, Lieber/Stoller

Exactly who I was thinking of.  Notice only two of them wrote Rock, so where's that put Wilson/Love?  Glad you agree with me!

Jagger/Richards, John/Taupin, Page/Plant.....  The list goes on.

Agree on the first two, however...the third? Really? Maybe if it was Page/Plant stealing obscure blues melodies and lyrics, sure.

[Aegir]

Are all of you guys saying you like the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Elton John, Led Zeppelin, Elvis, and George Gershwin more than you like the Beach Boys?!

If you ask me, the only songwriting teams that stand up to Wilson/Love are Wilson/Asher, Wilson/Parks, and Wilson/Landy/Morgan (that last one's a joke).

[Shady]

Are all of you guys saying you like the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Elton John, Led Zeppelin, Elvis, and George Gershwin more than you like the Beach Boys?!

If you ask me, the only songwriting teams that stand up to Wilson/Love are Wilson/Asher, Wilson/Parks, and Wilson/Landy/Morgan (that last one's a joke).

I agree..

The cream of the crop right there

[Mike's Beard]

To tell the truth, I haven't cared much for Led Zep for many years now but no doubt many still hold them in high regard.  

[Jason]

Are all of you guys saying you like the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Elton John, Led Zeppelin, Elvis, and George Gershwin more than you like the Beach Boys?!

If you ask me, the only songwriting teams that stand up to Wilson/Love are Wilson/Asher, Wilson/Parks, and Wilson/Landy/Morgan (that last one's a joke).

The Beach Boys are my favorite band, but it's a situation where the whole is more than the parts. I've had a much more fruitful listening experience with the Beach Boys than any other group. I've always found the Stones and Zeppelin incredibly overrated but I still enjoy them a lot. Elvis is easily the most underrated talent on your list.

[Rocker]

Are all of you guys saying you like the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Elton John, Led Zeppelin, Elvis, and George Gershwin more than you like the Beach Boys?!

If you ask me, the only songwriting teams that stand up to Wilson/Love are Wilson/Asher, Wilson/Parks, and Wilson/Landy/Morgan (that last one's a joke).

Why mention Elvis ? Though he did make the songs his own, he didn't write any (except one, maybe two). You are not as blind to reduce Leiber&Stoller to just those ca. 20 songs they wrote for Elvis or that were covered by him, are you ? You have to know about their work if you want to discuss popular music of the 20th century. They might be the most important non-performers. That means songwritin, production, arranging, etc.

Elvis is easily the most underrated talent on your list.

Sorry, this isn't meant personal, but that quote might be one of the more dumb statements I've heard on this board in a long time (as long as it's on topic). Again, not personally meant

[Jason]

Elvis is easily the most underrated talent on your list.

Sorry, this isn't meant personal, but that quote might be one of the more dumb statements I've heard on this board in a long time (as long as it's on topic). Again, not personally meant

I was referring in terms to the total package, not Elvis the SONGWRITER. 

You and I both know that Elvis was not a songwriter.

[Aegir]

Are all of you guys saying you like the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Elton John, Led Zeppelin, Elvis, and George Gershwin more than you like the Beach Boys?!

If you ask me, the only songwriting teams that stand up to Wilson/Love are Wilson/Asher, Wilson/Parks, and Wilson/Landy/Morgan (that last one's a joke).

Why mention Elvis ? Though he did make the songs his own, he didn't write any (except one, maybe two). You are not as blind to reduce Leiber&Stoller to just those ca. 20 songs they wrote for Elvis or that were covered by him, are you ? You have to know about their work if you want to discuss popular music of the 20th century. They might be the most important non-performers. That means songwritin, production, arranging, etc.

Right, right, I know they did more than Elvis, it just fit in with what I was doing by taking the songwriting teams people mentioned and attaching an artist to them. It was the one I was the least confident about doing so with though.

[Jason]

You're better off lumping Lieber/Stoller in with R&B and blues artists, not Elvis. They were never into rock 'n roll. They were just two guys who wanted to write some good R&B.

[Aegir]

yeah, originally I wrote "the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Elton John, Led Zeppelin, classic rhythm and blues, and George Gershwin", but that just didn't look right.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

yeah, originally I wrote "the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Elton John, Led Zeppelin, classic rhythm and blues, and George Gershwin", but that just didn't look right.

One day the whole of human civilisation will be gone, and our greatest achievements with it. It's all meaningless. It's all pointless.

[Rocker]

Elvis is easily the most underrated talent on your list.

Sorry, this isn't meant personal, but that quote might be one of the more dumb statements I've heard on this board in a long time (as long as it's on topic). Again, not personally meant

I was referring in terms to the total package, not Elvis the SONGWRITER. 

You and I both know that Elvis was not a songwriter.

I know what you meant. Won't change my post.



Re: Leiber & Stoller
Although they started with R'n'B and it was their first love, there's so much more to them than that. It's the same as with Elvis, you just can't reduce them to that one genre.

[Jason]

I was referring in terms to the total package, not Elvis the SONGWRITER. 

You and I both know that Elvis was not a songwriter.

I know what you meant. Won't change my post.

Then please explain what's dumb about the statement.

[Aegir]

yeah, originally I wrote "the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Elton John, Led Zeppelin, classic rhythm and blues, and George Gershwin", but that just didn't look right.

One day the whole of human civilisation will be gone, and our greatest achievements with it. It's all meaningless. It's all pointless.

You can apply that logic to anything, so in order to go through life we have to ignore that truth.

[The Shift]

yeah, originally I wrote "the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Elton John, Led Zeppelin, classic rhythm and blues, and George Gershwin", but that just didn't look right.

One day the whole of human civilisation will be gone, and our greatest achievements with it. It's all meaningless. It's all pointless.

Y're right… can I have your SMiLE box please? 

[runnersdialzero]

One day the whole of human civilisation will be gone, and our greatest achievements with it. It's all meaningless. It's all pointless.

And?

[Rocker]

I was referring in terms to the total package, not Elvis the SONGWRITER. 

You and I both know that Elvis was not a songwriter.

I know what you meant. Won't change my post.

Then please explain what's dumb about the statement.

Well, if you knew about Presley's work, his way of taking a song, producing it, singing it, making it come alive, his sheer talent (to keep that expression) you wouldn't have said that. In fact, I was at your side if you were talking about him as a songwriter, because he wasn't one (those 1 1/2 songs he did co-write don't count imo). But talking about the overall musical package there are not many people who come close to that guy.

[Empire Of Love]

yeah, originally I wrote "the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Elton John, Led Zeppelin, classic rhythm and blues, and George Gershwin", but that just didn't look right.

One day the whole of human civilisation will be gone, and our greatest achievements with it. It's all meaningless. It's all pointless.

"It's all meaningless. It's all pointless."

Sort of a self-refuting statement, isn't it?  If it has meaning it proves itself false, but if it doesn't have meaning, well, you see the problem with that, don't you?

[Jason]

I was referring in terms to the total package, not Elvis the SONGWRITER.  

You and I both know that Elvis was not a songwriter.

I know what you meant. Won't change my post.

Then please explain what's dumb about the statement.

Well, if you knew about Presley's work, his way of taking a song, producing it, singing it, making it come alive, his sheer talent (to keep that expression) you wouldn't have said that. In fact, I was at your side if you were talking about him as a songwriter, because he wasn't one (those 1 1/2 songs he did co-write don't count imo). But talking about the overall musical package there are not many people who come close to that guy.

I'm in agreement on all counts. When I said he was underrated I never implied he wasn't talented. I remarked that he was underrated compared to the other talents on Aegir's list (most of which I do find overrated). Not many people appreciate his abilities with regards to making a song his own. He deserves more credit than he gets. I am a huge Elvis fan.

underrated (comparative more underrated, superlative most underrated)

    Not given enough recognition for its quality

overrated (comparative more overrated, superlative most overrated)

    Given an undue amount of credit for quality or merit in a field; not necessarily related to popularity.

I'd suggest working on your English because I think that you misunderstood "underrated" as "overrated".

[Awesoman]

Al was suspended from the band when Recording started for SIP, yet his vocals are one of the few highlights of the album. Who says it is necessary for everyone to be all kissy, kissy to make music.

But we're talkin' Summer In Paradise here.  That's kind of like saying writing your will is one of the few highlights of dying of a terminal disease.  

Did you even read what I was getting at? The point was that they do not have to get along to sing well together. I only brought up SIP because Al was on the outs at the time, yet provided some very good vocals on some mediocre songs.

Oh, I read your post, Doc.  But using the Beach Boys' worst album ever recorded as an example kinda kills your argument.  Nothing good came out of that album.  In fact, if global warming really exists, I'm pretty sure this album contributed to it.  

[drbeachboy]

Al was suspended from the band when Recording started for SIP, yet his vocals are one of the few highlights of the album. Who says it is necessary for everyone to be all kissy, kissy to make music.

Again, the worst album thing has nothing to do with my post. It had to do with singing and getting along. Forget I even posted.

But we're talkin' Summer In Paradise here.  That's kind of like saying writing your will is one of the few highlights of dying of a terminal disease.   

Did you even read what I was getting at? The point was that they do not have to get along to sing well together. I only brought up SIP because Al was on the outs at the time, yet provided some very good vocals on some mediocre songs.

Oh, I read your post, Doc.  But using the Beach Boys' worst album ever recorded as an example kinda kills your argument.  Nothing good came out of that album.  In fact, if global warming really exists, I'm pretty sure this album contributed to it. 

[Rocker]

I was referring in terms to the total package, not Elvis the SONGWRITER.  

You and I both know that Elvis was not a songwriter.

I know what you meant. Won't change my post.

Then please explain what's dumb about the statement.

Well, if you knew about Presley's work, his way of taking a song, producing it, singing it, making it come alive, his sheer talent (to keep that expression) you wouldn't have said that. In fact, I was at your side if you were talking about him as a songwriter, because he wasn't one (those 1 1/2 songs he did co-write don't count imo). But talking about the overall musical package there are not many people who come close to that guy.

I'm in agreement on all counts. When I said he was underrated I never implied he wasn't talented. I remarked that he was underrated compared to the other talents on Aegir's list (most of which I do find overrated). Not many people appreciate his abilities with regards to making a song his own. He deserves more credit than he gets. I am a huge Elvis fan.

underrated (comparative more underrated, superlative most underrated)

    Not given enough recognition for its quality

overrated (comparative more overrated, superlative most overrated)

    Given an undue amount of credit for quality or merit in a field; not necessarily related to popularity.

I'd suggest working on your English because I think that you misunderstood "underrated" as "overrated".

Good God, I must apologize a hundred times. I mis-read your post. I'm very sorry. I'd read untalented. Not enough sleep the last days I guess.... embarassing...