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Author Topic: Better Holland outtake: We Got Love or Hard Time?  (Read 9971 times)
Smilin Ed H
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« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2011, 12:56:46 AM »


"Had Hard Times been written in time to perform for the BB In Concert album, I think it would have been a good rocker/inclusion for the live album."





"According to AGD's site:

Hard Times session - 4 October 72; therefore during the late September/early October session s for Holland

Sail on Sailor session - 28 November 72

Holland released 8 Jan 73"

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Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll
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« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2011, 07:15:12 AM »

We Got Love

dont like hard time much but yeah Carry me Home is easily the best

btw was there a release of the Holland lp that included "we got love"? seem to remember something about that
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« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2011, 07:22:35 AM »

btw was there a release of the Holland lp that included "we got love"? seem to remember something about that

http://www.the-flames.com/  > and then click on Holland LP (left menu)

or more directly: http://www.mollenkramer.nl/the-flames/holland.htm
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« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2011, 09:43:56 AM »

The band could have also used It's A New Day on Holland if they needed another Dennis song (and another Blondie vocal for that matter). Frankly, I would have added Carry Me Home, It's A New Day, and We Got Love to Holland as is. A 45 minute album was not uncommon in 1973.
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« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2011, 09:48:36 AM »

I'd take Hard Time over We Got Love anytime.  Even in it's not quite finished state.
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« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2011, 09:51:48 AM »

I'd take Hard Time over We Got Love anytime.  Even in it's not quite finished state.
Me too. We Got Love is fine on In Concert, but the studio version is kind of dull and lifeless, IMHO.
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Jason
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« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2011, 09:53:19 AM »

If not We Got Love then definitely Hard Times.
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« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2011, 05:34:33 AM »

Wonderful info! Thanks a lot. I have a vague recollection of seeing a copy of holland with "we got love" listed as a track in a record shop in Eindhoven back in 1998. It was too expensive for me at the time. I live in Berlin these days and have come across a few copies of Holland so will be studying the grooves carefully from now on.

btw was there a release of the Holland lp that included "we got love"? seem to remember something about that

http://www.the-flames.com/  > and then click on Holland LP (left menu)

or more directly: http://www.mollenkramer.nl/the-flames/holland.htm
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« Reply #33 on: July 25, 2011, 06:51:38 AM »

When We Got Love is actually listed on the cover, chances are that you have a French or Canadian copy in your hands... but it doesn't contain the actual track. The only ones that do have We Got Love on the record itself are a few hundred copies from Germany or early testpressings.

By the way, the French and Canadian pressings with WGL mentioned on the cover aren't that difficult to find. I've seen lot's of these being offered on Ebay or record fairs.


Wonderful info! Thanks a lot. I have a vague recollection of seeing a copy of holland with "we got love" listed as a track in a record shop in Eindhoven back in 1998. It was too expensive for me at the time. I live in Berlin these days and have come across a few copies of Holland so will be studying the grooves carefully from now on.

btw was there a release of the Holland lp that included "we got love"? seem to remember something about that

http://www.the-flames.com/  > and then click on Holland LP (left menu)

or more directly: http://www.mollenkramer.nl/the-flames/holland.htm
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Rule of thumb, think BEFORE you post. And THINK how it may affect someone else's feelings.

Check out the Beach Boys Starline website, the place for pictures of many countries Beach Boys releases on 45.

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« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2011, 05:46:04 PM »

Thinking of adding We Got Love to the line up on Holland, it makes me think about how some say that Holland isn't as good as Sunflower and Surf's Up because Holland seems so serious. But really, I think there's humor in Funky Pretty and the humor in irony of Brian singing: "I'm on my way to Sunny Cal-ifor-n-i-a". The fact that a musical genius made Mt. Vernon and Fairway and it had never been done before or ever again has some time of non-seriousness to it. BTW, I always thought Surf's Up was a very serious album besides the inclusion of Take a Load off your Feet (minor mistake, but people still dig the album)...I just think Take a Load woulda sounded better on Sunflower or hell, they had so much material to put out another whole album between Sunflower and Surf's Up, why not call it Landlocked?  Wink
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bluesno1fann
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« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2014, 12:49:22 AM »

I really like Holland. But I think the album could be better.

Yeah, Hard Times was made after Holland was delivered. But I still prefer it over We Got Love, hands down!
And Carry Me Home is excellent as well, though I still prefer Hard Times. Though maybe it's because Carry Me Home sounds very incomplete and the quality of the bootleg is horrible.

What I'd change about Holland is adding the three songs mentioned, use the unreleased version of Big Sur instead of the bad one that made it to the final version, cut out Beaks Of Eagles (California Saga was so unnecessary!) and Steamboat, keep Sail On Sailor intact and remix and shorten every other remaining song!
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« Reply #36 on: March 13, 2014, 02:04:34 AM »

Yeah, Hard Times was made after Holland was delivered. But I still prefer it over We Got Love, hands down!

If you'd read the thread, you'd see that Hard Times was recorded six weeks before Sail On Sailor and a couple or three months before Holland was released!

And Carry Me Home is excellent as well, though I still prefer Hard Times. Though maybe it's because Carry Me Home sounds very incomplete and the quality of the bootleg is horrible.

Which bootleg version are you listening to?

What I'd change about Holland is adding the three songs mentioned, use the unreleased version of Big Sur instead of the bad one that made it to the final version, cut out Beaks Of Eagles (California Saga was so unnecessary!) and Steamboat, keep Sail On Sailor intact and remix and shorten every other remaining song!

With respect, I disagree completely. The unreleased version of Big Sur is interesting but, to my ears, inferior to the album version. I appreciate that many feel differently but I Reckon the Beach Boys made the right call there.

Steamboat is one of Dennis's best productions. Just as Brian conjured up a railroad with Who Ran The Iron Horse, so Dennis conjured visions of a a grinding old paddle steamer, mist rising from the surface of a wide, dew-dripping tree-fringed river. Always thought of this as a piece of industrial rock in the way the music was effectively an evocative sound effect. He was way ahead of the other band members in this regard, maybe even pre-empting elements of what Tom Waits was to soon achieve.

As for editing Holland tracks for length… might as well take scissors to The Last Supper and cut out those 12 superfluous figures surrounding the bearded one…
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bluesno1fann
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« Reply #37 on: March 13, 2014, 02:19:33 AM »

Yeah, Hard Times was made after Holland was delivered. But I still prefer it over We Got Love, hands down!

If you'd read the thread, you'd see that Hard Times was recorded six weeks before Sail On Sailor and a couple or three months before Holland was released!

And Carry Me Home is excellent as well, though I still prefer Hard Times. Though maybe it's because Carry Me Home sounds very incomplete and the quality of the bootleg is horrible.

Which bootleg version are you listening to?

What I'd change about Holland is adding the three songs mentioned, use the unreleased version of Big Sur instead of the bad one that made it to the final version, cut out Beaks Of Eagles (California Saga was so unnecessary!) and Steamboat, keep Sail On Sailor intact and remix and shorten every other remaining song!

With respect, I disagree completely. The unreleased version of Big Sur is interesting but, to my ears, inferior to the album version. I appreciate that many feel differently but I Reckon the Beach Boys made the right call there.

Steamboat is one of Dennis's best productions. Just as Brian conjured up a railroad with Who Ran The Iron Horse, so Dennis conjured visions of a a grinding old paddle steamer, mist rising from the surface of a wide, dew-dripping tree-fringed river. Always thought of this as a piece of industrial rock in the way the music was effectively an evocative sound effect. He was way ahead of the other band members in this regard, maybe even pre-empting elements of what Tom Waits was to soon achieve.

As for editing Holland tracks for length… might as well take scissors to The Last Supper and cut out those 12 superfluous figures surrounding the bearded one…

I read some of the thread, but not every post. What I did read was comments such as how Hard Times was recorded just after Holland was delivered. In any case, Thanks for correcting me!

I think this is the version of Carry Me Home:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrGk8xAHHDw

As for the rest, with respect we should agree to disagree  Smiley
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« Reply #38 on: March 13, 2014, 06:39:57 AM »

Carry Me Home > Hard Times > We Got Love
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« Reply #39 on: March 13, 2014, 06:45:23 AM »

Yeah, Hard Times was made after Holland was delivered. But I still prefer it over We Got Love, hands down!

If you'd read the thread, you'd see that Hard Times was recorded six weeks before Sail On Sailor and a couple or three months before Holland was released!

A bit of truth from both sides.

http://www.esquarterly.com/bellagio//gigs72.html

Late September/early October the last session (of whatever songs) was held for the Holland album. On Oct. 4th "Hard Times" was recorded. and on Oct. 9th the Holland album was assembled. Hearing the recording of Hard Times, it sounds like a complete but unfinished track to me, so I can't imagine Hard Times being seriously considered for the album when the first Holland line-up songs was assembled. (Unless there's a more finished product we haven't heard yet.)

We all know the story. Warner rejected the album because it lacked a single with hit potention. And 6 weeks later (Nov. 28th) one more session was held for recording SOS and that was it. And one week after that side A was re-assembled.

So - just looking at the time frame - yes, Hard Times was recorded within the time frame all Holland tracks were recorded. But it's pretty clear the Boys thought the album was done early October, when only a demo of Hard Times was put on tape. And the only change they made after that was replacing one song for another, thus making minimal changes to the album.

So my bet would be not to consider Hard Times as a Holland outtake.


By the way. Is there any info on when Carry Me Home was recorded? Apparently no recording info was available while assembling the info for AGD's Bellagio webpage.
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Rule of thumb, think BEFORE you post. And THINK how it may affect someone else's feelings.

Check out the Beach Boys Starline website, the place for pictures of many countries Beach Boys releases on 45.

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Right behind you I see the millions; On you I see the glory; From you I get opinions; From you I get the story
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« Reply #40 on: March 13, 2014, 09:14:56 AM »

I think We Got Love should have been kept on the Holland album. The line up would have to be revised for it to fit maybe, or it could have kicked off side 2 before The Trader. Odd that Ricky and Blondies most commercial tune for the BBs was the one that got the boot.
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« Reply #41 on: March 13, 2014, 10:02:06 AM »

 I hope when they re-release Holland on cd they will put those songs as bonus tracks, maybe end the album with "Fairytale music" instead of the actual fairytale and put the fairytale on a free second disc like how the album was released, then there would be more room for unreleased stuff on the first disc.
Holland
1. Sail on Sailor
2. Steamboat
3.Big Sur
4. The beaks of eagles
5.California
6, The Trader
7.leaving this town
8. only with you
9. Funky Pretty
Bonus
10. Fairytale Music
11. We Got Love
12. Hard Times
13. Big Sur (original)
14. Carry me home
15, It's a new day
and whatever else they want to fill up the disc

disc #2
Mt.Vernon (fairytale, complete)
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« Reply #42 on: March 13, 2014, 10:17:15 AM »

By the way. Is there any info on when Carry Me Home was recorded? Apparently no recording info was available while assembling the info for AGD's Bellagio webpage.

I'd like to know more about the song as well. I've never heard anything about it.
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« Reply #43 on: March 13, 2014, 10:24:02 AM »

I love Carry Me Home, We Got Love and Hard Times.  Glad it wasn't my choice!  They should all be released officially (studio versions).  Also in defence of HT I love the way it kicks in without a big intro, straight into it, rocking guitars.  It probably captures more of the live feel from that era, similar in that respect to the guitars on Marcella.
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Disney Boy (1985)
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« Reply #44 on: March 13, 2014, 10:56:52 AM »

I don't get these posters saying that 'Hard Times' isn't a proper song/doesn't sound complete/etc. What version are they listening too? It's got a verse/a bridge/a verse/a bridge/a chorus/a guitar solo/a bridge/a chorus/a concluding rock-out. In what way is that not a completed song?

Anyway, Hard Times is a great and, for me, Blondie and Ricky's finest BB-related song. It's vastly superior to 'We Got Love' which is pretty lame and was best left off Holland.

Carry Me Home is a heartbreaking masterpiece and one of Dennis' finest hours. it's terrible really that, even after all this time, a song this brilliant is allowed to languish unreleased... Only the Beach Boys could leave a song of such quality unreleased.
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Disney Boy (1985)
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« Reply #45 on: March 13, 2014, 11:12:08 AM »

The band could have also used It's A New Day on Holland if they needed another Dennis song (and another Blondie vocal for that matter). Frankly, I would have added Carry Me Home, It's A New Day, and We Got Love to Holland as is. A 45 minute album was not uncommon in 1973.

I forgot about It's A New Day! Cracking song - Dennis really knew how to use female backing vocals - and a typically great Blondie lead. Wish they'd included it (and kept in the moment when he starts laughing on the fade).
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bluesno1fann
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« Reply #46 on: March 13, 2014, 03:14:48 PM »

I don't get these posters saying that 'Hard Times' isn't a proper song/doesn't sound complete/etc. What version are they listening too? It's got a verse/a bridge/a verse/a bridge/a chorus/a guitar solo/a bridge/a chorus/a concluding rock-out. In what way is that not a completed song?

Anyway, Hard Times is a great and, for me, Blondie and Ricky's finest BB-related song. It's vastly superior to 'We Got Love' which is pretty lame and was best left off Holland.

Carry Me Home is a heartbreaking masterpiece and one of Dennis' finest hours. it's terrible really that, even after all this time, a song this brilliant is allowed to languish unreleased... Only the Beach Boys could leave a song of such quality unreleased.

Disagree with We Got Love, agreed with Hard Times and Carry Me Home.

I can see Hard Times being a hit single from that era. Oh well...
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« Reply #47 on: March 13, 2014, 03:57:27 PM »

I'd take Hard Time over We Got Love anytime.  Even in it's not quite finished state.

"Hard Time" is a completely different song - the X-rated version of "Ding Dang". Jus' sayin'...
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« Reply #48 on: March 13, 2014, 04:03:43 PM »

I really like Holland. But I think the album could be better.

Yeah, Hard Times was made after Holland was delivered. But I still prefer it over We Got Love, hands down!
And Carry Me Home is excellent as well, though I still prefer Hard Times. Though maybe it's because Carry Me Home sounds very incomplete and the quality of the bootleg is horrible.

What I'd change about Holland is adding the three songs mentioned, use the unreleased version of Big Sur instead of the bad one that made it to the final version, cut out Beaks Of Eagles (California Saga was so unnecessary!) and Steamboat, keep Sail On Sailor intact and remix and shorten every other remaining song!

Congratulations - you've just turned the band's best non-BW album into something that would majorly suck. As for "Hard Times" being recorded after Holland was delivered... since when did October 4th ever come after October 9th ?
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« Reply #49 on: March 13, 2014, 04:13:49 PM »

I really like Holland. But I think the album could be better.

Yeah, Hard Times was made after Holland was delivered. But I still prefer it over We Got Love, hands down!
And Carry Me Home is excellent as well, though I still prefer Hard Times. Though maybe it's because Carry Me Home sounds very incomplete and the quality of the bootleg is horrible.

What I'd change about Holland is adding the three songs mentioned, use the unreleased version of Big Sur instead of the bad one that made it to the final version, cut out Beaks Of Eagles (California Saga was so unnecessary!) and Steamboat, keep Sail On Sailor intact and remix and shorten every other remaining song!

Congratulations - you've just turned the band's best non-BW album into something that would majorly suck. As for "Hard Times" being recorded after Holland was delivered... since when did October 4th ever come after October 9th ?

Amen! Holland is amazing, We Got Love should be additionally added to it to make it even better...
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