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673410 Posts in 27146 Topics by 3994 Members - Latest Member: jwrag2000 January 26, 2022, 12:00:25 AM
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1  Non Smiley Smile Stuff / General Music Discussion / Re: The Dave Clark Five on: May 31, 2020, 08:55:17 AM
Dave owned the band and had the other members on salary -- despite the other guys doing the actual singing and writing (though Dave always stuck his name on the songwriting credits). If you watch the band perform on a YouTube clip, you see Dave front and center on the drums pretending to sing, and the others off to the side. A messed up band situation.

That said, the DC5 rocked harder than any other band circa '64.
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Beach Boys in SPACE on: May 31, 2020, 07:59:14 AM
TV shows, unlike movies, typically don't show song credits. Different contracts and different time constraints.

The most recent episode of 'What We Do In the Shadows' also featured Kokomo (likewise uncredited). It's become the go-to song when a writer wants a song a bit cheesy -- cheesy but at the same time uplifting and undeniabley catchy. "Bermuda, Bahamas, come on pretty mama ..."
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Thread for various insignificant questions that don't deserve their own thread! on: May 28, 2020, 07:08:30 PM
The new Steve Carell tv show 'Space Force' features Steve giving his rendition of 'Kokomo' in order to comfort himself. And the latest episode of 'What We Do In the Shadows' has a scene in which our vampire protagonists bomb with song after song at a club -- until, that is, they start singing 'Kokomo', and have the previously booing crowd join in.

How galling is it that of all the great songs the band put out, it is the novelty record 'Kokomo' that has the firmest purchase on the mainstream popular culture -- the most remembered, the most beloved?
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike makes a statement on: February 05, 2020, 08:01:01 AM
If Brian wants to make a statement regarding a public controversy, he cannot then hide behind his mental illness to deflect blowback. Not that is what he is doing here -- others are doing it on his behalf. It's infantilizing.

I agree with Brian and Al regarding trophy hunting. I admire their convictions. But if Brian can't be criticized because of his mental illness, does it then follow that his opinions on this matter are a result of his mental illness? Can't have it both ways.
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Best of 1968: White Album or Friends on: February 04, 2020, 06:59:07 AM
Lots of great albums in '68 -- Electric Ladyland, Begger's Banquet, Music from Big Pink, Lady Soul, Odyssey and Oracle, etc. But just between the White Album and Friends, I'd choose the Beatles' sprawling, messy masterpiece over the quirky charm of Friends.
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: First BB song heard on: January 30, 2020, 02:24:10 PM
Fun Fun Fun, spring '64, transistor radio.
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Terry Melcher on: July 29, 2019, 08:55:16 AM
What does Terry Melcher is the only " other person who produced a number one hit for the beach boys " have to do with comparing to Brian Wilson?

The Monkees had three number ones hits! Produced by Tommy Boyce and Bobby Hart! Jeff Barry! and Chip Douglas!

That means they are all the same! All geniuses!

Huh

Hey, the Monkees made great records, and Chip Douglas, in particular, though no Brian Wilson or George Martin, was one of the better producers in the late 60's LA scene. I'd rank him with Curt Boettcher and Lou Adler.
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: BEACH BOYS PRODUCERS SHED LIGHT ON 1968 ARCHIVAL RELEASES on: January 09, 2019, 07:42:01 AM
There is a quote from the Man Who Shot Liberty Valence : "When the legend becomes fact, print the legend".

The legend -- the myth, really, is a powerful one. It's Brian as Icarus, who flew too close to the sun (SMiLE), burned his wings off, and fell to earth. The reality is much less dramatic. That's why I think the popular myth will have more staying power than the messy truth.
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: All I Wanna Do - What were The BBs trying to achieve with it? on: January 02, 2019, 07:56:03 AM
The production is reminiscent of Chip Douglas's work for the Turtles Present the Battle of the Bands (1968) -- that lush, shimmering, floating sound. Listen, for instance, to the song 'You Showed Me'.
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Love Nominated for Induction into The Songwriters Hall of Fame on: November 29, 2018, 08:48:40 AM
I read a lot of rock biographies. Most rock performers prominent enough to have books written about them are a-holes, or at least have had extended periods of a-hole behavior before mellowing in their old age, even such revered figures as David Bowie and George Harrison.

Mike has been an a-hole deep into his dotage, granted, but much less of one than, say, Van Morrison or Lou Reed, both well-deserved Hall of Fame songwriters.

When it comes to rock music, we have to separate the art from the artist.
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Love Nominated for Induction into The Songwriters Hall of Fame on: November 27, 2018, 08:40:57 AM
I mean he wrote a classic like Sumahama!? Shouldn't that count for something... Wink Rock 'n Roll Country Bride? Wrinkles? The man is a songwriting genius and roundly deserves this nomination!!
The songwriters hall of fame includes lyricists. Among the songs Mike wrote were 'Fun Fun Fun', 'Warmth of the Sun', 'I Get Around', 'California Girls', 'Good Vibrations', and many more great songs, as I'm sure every one on this board is well aware.

Hal David is in the hall of fame. How many songs did he write without a collaborator?

Folks hate Mike as a person for being the second biggest a**hole in the Beach Boys and maybe the 753rd biggest a**hole in pop/rock. Fine. Does that hatred then extend to all the songs he wrote or sang on? How then can you be a Beach Boys fan?
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Mike Love Nominated for Induction into The Songwriters Hall of Fame on: November 16, 2018, 06:52:38 AM
In a time when pop lyrics were blandly generic, Mike was one of the few who carried on in the tradition of Chuck Berry and Jerry Leiber in writing narrative lyrics with actualized characters and specifically detailed situations. He co-wrote some of the greatest, most enduring records ever made.

I would say that as a writer overall he was a minor figure -- but for a brief, key period (1963-1965, pre-electric Dylan) he was the equal of, say, Gerry Goffin, and deserving of at least a nomination.
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Recent thoughts on Jack Rieley by the Beach Boys? on: September 14, 2018, 03:35:25 PM
Rieley, to all intents and purposes, quit as manager when he moved to the Netherlands. Trying to run the band long distance from Amsterdam was always an untenable proposition.

Carl functionally quit as the band's producer. After 'Holland', he -- apparently willingly -- left the producing duties in the hands of Brian, Al, or Bruce. In the 2 years between 'Surf's Up' and 'Holland' Carl wrote one song, and there would be another 6 years after that before another Carl song appeared on record. Carl, post-Holland, could have maintained creative leadership of the band (at least in Brian's absence), but for some reason he shied away from the responsibility.

Dennis was Dennis. A talented though erratic screw-up.

None of these situations were because of Mike's ego, or because Mike was making a power play.
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Missing Surf's Up Tracks on: August 30, 2018, 12:48:04 PM
The 'Surf's Up' lp was the first one to have "Brian's Back" PR. Big stories about his return to form in Newsweek and Time.

Carole King had just come out with 'Tapestry', and the counter culture was now embracing music and artists regarded as uncool just a year previously. Plus, the SMiLE myth was really getting a lot of hype  at this time.

All in all, thanks in large part to Rieley's publicity push, the boys were hip again. Some exaggeration about the level of Brian's involvement was a small price to pay, I would think.
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Bruce on Friends on: August 28, 2018, 08:06:06 AM
I didn't like the 'Friends' lp at first. I wouldn't have used the word 'wimpy' to describe it, but maybe wispy? Lightweight? Thin?

Of course, I've long since come to appreciate the subtleties and delicate melodies, but a lot of listeners still don't like the album much. I get that. And I get Bruce not liking it. Did he even contribute to it?
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / Polls / Re: The Definite Smiley Smile Message Board's Studio Album Ranking - Ranking Process on: August 15, 2018, 07:57:27 AM
1] Pet Sounds
2] Sunflower
3] Today!
4] Smile Sessions
5] All Summer Long
6] Love You
7] Smiley Smile
8] Friends
9] Wild Honey
10] Surf's Up
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / Polls / Re: The Definite Smiley Smile Message Board's Song Ranking - Ranking Process on: July 24, 2018, 11:38:30 AM
1) 'Til I Die
2) God Only Knows
3) All I Wanna Do
4) You Still Believe in Me
5) I Just Wasn't Made For These Times
6) This Whole World
7) Don't Talk (Put Your Head On My Shoulder)
Cool When I Grow Up
9) All This is That
10 ) Warmth of the Sun
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Denny's stature in the BBs, if he'd gotten proper credit on You Are So Beautiful on: June 28, 2018, 07:48:22 AM
Bob Dylan declined a co-writing credit on Roger McGuin's 'Ballad of Easy Rider', though Dylan wrote most of the lyrics.


19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: What if...? on: May 30, 2018, 06:55:59 AM
Smile going unreleased cost them short-term, but it's mystique as a lost masterpiece helped the group re-invent itself in 1971 as a counter-culture FM radio band. Would a Smile released in the midst of Sgt Pepper, Are You Experienced, Fresh Cream, the Doors, Surrealistic Pillow, etc. have had the same impact?

20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Pet Sounds: Billboard 1966... A Broader Picture on: May 10, 2018, 06:53:20 AM
Capitol released the Beatles lp 'Something New' 10 days after the 'Hard Days Night' album. Those were different days.
21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Thread for various insignificant questions that don't deserve their own thread! on: May 03, 2018, 06:35:39 AM
I've seen on message boards that were discussing that last, fan-controversial Star Wars film, use of the phrase "don't f*ck with the formula", usually unattributed or attributed to "as someone once said".

Has Mike's remark, which he might not have even said, entered the cultural lexicon?
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Media Narrative of Brian's creative collapse Post-SMiLE on: March 23, 2018, 01:30:52 PM
First in several replies:

Consider "Surf City" which Brian also gave away to Jan & Dean and which went on to hit #1. Caused a bit of a shitstorm especially with Murry. I wonder if Murry's anger was shared by anyone else within the band.

But my point is, along with many of these issues, there was a precedent and it was nothing new. It was the crap Brian had to deal with.

The main thing here is that Brother was set up in large part to allow Brian and the band members to do EXACTLY what Brian did with Redwood, but I'd be repeating myself if I said what that was. It's common knowledge, or so I thought.
Brother was set up in 1966 when the Beach Boys were riding high on the charts. By the fall of 1967, they were barely hanging on.
There were groups as successful as the BBs which didn't survive the 60's -- the Dave Clark 5, Herman's Hermits. The members of those bands went on to selling real estate or giving guitar lessons.

But, in an alternative future, would we rather have had a Redwood 'Darlin'? Would it even have been a hit without the Beach Boys name attached? What would have taken its place on the WH lp? What would have been the single that the Beach Boys would have released in its stead?
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Media Narrative of Brian's creative collapse Post-SMiLE on: March 23, 2018, 08:00:08 AM
I'm on the the band's side with that whole Redwood situation.

The band is floundering and in need of a hit. Mike co-writes a potential hit, 'Darlin', and Brian decides to give it away. Now, if the Beach Boys go under, Brian will survive as a producer/arranger behind-the-scenes guy. That indeed may be his ultimate ambition.

But what happens to Mike, Al, Carl and Dennis? Do they get regular jobs? Sell real estate? Open up a surf shop?
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Media Narrative of Brian's creative collapse Post-SMiLE on: March 20, 2018, 12:50:49 PM
Brian was still in complete control for 'Smiley Smile', and near-complete control for WH and 'Friends'. He was still the sole producer, though not credited as such.  

My speculation is that, beginning with WH, he began to allow the others in the band more input in the arrangements, but even there he maintained final say.

There was no post-SMiLE collapse. There was a gradual decline in involvement, which however began only post-Friends.
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: The Media Narrative of Brian's creative collapse Post-SMiLE on: March 20, 2018, 07:48:08 AM
Thing is, Brian did take a step back, in theory if not really in practice. The lp credits went from Produced and Arranged by Brian Wilson, to Produced by the Beach Boys, and by 'Friends' the songwriting credits were being shared by Mike, Dennis, Carl and Al.

Brian was still in creative control, but the outward signs contradicted that. Did Brian no longer want sole public responsibility for the records successes and failures?
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