gfxgfx
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
logo
 
gfx gfx
gfx
669371 Posts in 26930 Topics by 3918 Members - Latest Member: another June 16, 2021, 01:36:42 AM
*
gfx*HomeHelpSearchCalendarLoginRegistergfx
  Show Posts
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 ... 28
1  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: October 12, 2020, 05:26:42 PM
start BBtoday posted the following...

All right. Here's what this comes down to.

The insiders making everyone play the guessing game comes across as, for lack of a better term, douchey. Call that trolling if you want. I don't care. I can go back to not posting in here for months at a time.

As some background, I'm a journalist. There's plenty of things I know about my subject of expertise that I can't report publicly. Do I go into forums and make people guess what I know and don't know and then not tell them what is and isn't true? No, that would be extremely bizarre and narcissistic behavior.

Say what you know. Don't say what you can't. This doesn't seem that hard."


Isn't that EXACTLY what we have been doing?? Say things we KNOW, and don't say things we CAN'T. And It is fucking hard because when we follow that code to try and inform people as best we can we get blowback from mental giants like you who can't seem to understand that this is only being done to support the project as it was created by the team that was hired to create it. No one, let me repeat NO ONE is MAKING you play a guessing game. In fact we have suggested that you don't because it's not helpful to the cause of getting the full box released in it's best form. But guessing is human nature, and when the guess is significantly wrong some of us have tried to steer things back toward a factual realm. Again a very very hard thing to do when geniuses like yourself divert the fundamentals into a distorted masturbation of obfuscation and inflated self. Howie has tried his best. Juggling an incredibly volatile and fragile situation out of pure love for the music. He shares what he can to enlighten some anxious fans. He gets called "Douchey" by YOU for doing that. Nice job man. You get the lets sh*t all over the best source we have award. Wear it proudly.

I was actually calling HeyJude douchey, "mental giant."

Keep dropping vague hints to let fans parse them out and speculate until their heads explode, though. It's clearly been very helpful as we've turned one minor issue into another one involving Dennis' songs. It seems as if we're only going the wrong way.

I would not expect fans of the subject I cover to bow at my alter. I'm a journalist. I don't consider myself the subject. I don't know why you and Howie feel differently.
2  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: October 12, 2020, 04:34:18 PM
Y'know what -- I'm a journalist. I'm also a journalist who uses my real name.
I could reveal all I dig on all the bands I work with, but seeing as how I USE my name -- I can't -- nor would I (because I'm not an ass hole.)
Telling fans who would be the audience for a project I worked on details about the work -- but not connecting all the (highly political and still very much in play) dots doesn't make me a douche.

It makes me an adult.

Hopefully it all gets sorted out and we have this thing by shorts weather.
Let's not be dicks to each other about it.

Yeah, HeyJude. Howie uses his real name.

What was that about not being a troll?

I mean, I'm assuming Howie was referring to me, but it's ridiculous if he was. I've never claimed to cover the Beach Boys. I wouldn't criticize Howie if he posted on a forum about politics under a pseudonym just because he's a journalist.

I do know I wouldn't post guarded and incomplete information about my field of expertise under a pseudonym.
3  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: October 12, 2020, 04:21:30 PM
OK, so now I'll ask you to "point to where I stated I could 'essentially take or leave this set'" again and ask you to point to where I "seem to not be particularly troubled with the idea of this set not coming out."

I'm not really sure what you're trying to accomplish here, but when you start lying about things people have and haven't posted and twisting their words, it gets pretty weird.

It's not my job to do a copy and paste dissertation. Anybody can go back and read your posts and everybody else's. "Take or leave" is obviously a very loose paraphrasing/characterization. But yes, when someone says things like this:

"...if my choice is to bemoan the loss of a handful of solo Dennis Wilson songs or appreciate Mike Love's enormous contributions to the band, I'm going with the latter, the Lovester."

"If it so important to the Wilsons, Al and Dennis' sons that it gets released ... wouldn't it be out by now?"


It seems like those comments seem to come from a place of not being troubled by such material not being released. Sounds like you're okay with this set coming out, or not coming out. Hence "take it or leave it."

Those quotes are about Dennis' songs.

You said I could "take or leave" the set and that I "seem to not be particularly troubled with the idea of this set not coming out."

I'd rather hear the set without Dennis' songs than not hear the set at all. Those quotes are the exact opposite of what you're accusing me of saying.
4  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: October 12, 2020, 04:19:26 PM
Y'know what -- I'm a journalist. I'm also a journalist who uses my real name.
I could reveal all I dig on all the bands I work with, but seeing as how I USE my name -- I can't -- nor would I (because I'm not an ass hole.)
Telling fans who would be the audience for a project I worked on details about the work -- but not connecting all the (highly political and still very much in play) dots doesn't make me a douche.

It makes me an adult.

Hopefully it all gets sorted out and we have this thing by shorts weather.
Let's not be dicks to each other about it.

Yeah, HeyJude. Howie uses his real name.
5  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: October 12, 2020, 04:06:03 PM
Well, he recorded it in 1970 and 1971, he died in 1983, and it never came out. So, I have absolutely no clue what he thinks of that material. Do I know for a fact that he loved it and deemed it worthy for release? Absofreakinlutely not. Do I know for a fact that he never wanted it to be released? Absofreakinlutely not.

I have no idea. You have no idea.

I'd love to hear it. But my argument for hearing it absolutely is not going to be, "Dennis wanted me to hear it!"

All of this is missing the point. Nobody is saying Dennis wanted us to hear this stuff. For the millionth time as I've been saying, NONE of the band members have taken a strong shine to spearheading archival releases.

They used to do mine old stuff for "new" albums back a million years ago when they were still an actual recording act.

Now they're a trademark and a holding company, with a vault full of a cache of unreleased material that bests ANY band's out there. By leaps and bounds.

As has been with past archival releases, there are folks trying to get this stuff released. That's why it happens. They do all the work, and then convince the band to let it happen.

That's what's happening now, only for a plethora of reasons, it's hitting a bunch of snags, snags that might be untangled if the band knows that fans know what's going on.

If your ethos when it comes to BB releases is "Meh, whatever. If it ends up released then I'll enjoy it", then there's no need to discuss the work others are trying to do to make it happen, and you can just sit back and fold your arms and wait for something (or nothing) to appear.

Nobody is saying that? Yes. Someone is saying that. It's CenturyDeprived. He's saying that.

No, nobody asserted that they know Dennis wanted this material released or heard.

Indeed, we *all know* that none of the members wanted this stuff released or heard at the time. That's why it's UNRELEASED.

He was asking the seemingly semi-rhetorical question of "Does anybody think if Dennis were alive that he'd just say "meh, whatever" if all of his material was removed from this set?"

It's obviously an unanswerable hypothetical question.  All else being equal, if Dennis were still part of the BRI mechanism and of a similar position as the other members, I don't think it's crazy to think that, once he had been open to archival releases, that he wouldn't support another member trying to nix all of his material on the set.

I don't think anybody thinks "What would Dennis have wanted?" is like the ultimate, mic-drop question to post regarding this set. But isn't it something to add to the equation a little bit? Especially since his estate doesn't have any corporate share anymore, and his heirs seem to, at least in some cases, have a pretty hands-off approach to Dennis's legacy at this point?

I'm not trying to be overly-dramatic, but someone should be fighting for Dennis. Jon Stebbins has done a lot of that lifting over the years. Is it so difficult for fans to simply say "hrmmm, I don't think his stuff should be removed from this set"?
If that's all it was, then sure.

But god knows how many pages ago, it was all about, "what would Al and the Wilsons and Dennis' family think of this?" rather than, "I don't think his stuff should be removed from the set."

It's the overdramatization and projection onto important people that I'm tired of.

I think you just have a fixation about what you feel (incorrectly in my opinion) is "projection" (a term you've used many times now), and seem to find the evocation of "what would so-and-so think/do?" to be a pet peeve.

You also seem to find calling someone out for nixing material to be overly dramatic.

All obviously your prerogative, but it seems like there isn't anything left for you to add to this discussion on the topic of the set. You seem to be talking about the people talking about it now. I get it, this happens all the time on boards. But after awhile, it does feel like trolling.

All right. Here's what this comes down to.

The insiders making everyone play the guessing game comes across as, for lack of a better term, douchey. Call that trolling if you want. I don't care. I can go back to not posting in here for months at a time.

As some background, I'm a journalist. There's plenty of things I know about my subject of expertise that I can't report publicly. Do I go into forums and make people guess what I know and don't know and then not tell them what is and isn't true? No, that would be extremely bizarre and narcissistic behavior.

Say what you know. Don't say what you can't. This doesn't seem that hard.
6  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: October 12, 2020, 04:01:38 PM
I'm certainly in the minority here, and while I respect the work people like Howie and Jon have done for the band, if my choice is to bemoan the loss of a handful of solo Dennis Wilson songs or appreciate Mike Love's enormous contributions to the band, I'm going with the latter, the Lovester.

It feels like this thread/fanbase/forum has turned it, "Listen, you're either for Feel Flows and on the side of Jon Stebbins and Howie Edelson or you're with Mike Love!"

I'd love to get the complete Feel Flows package. But as I've said previously, it seems like those most passionate to get it out into the ether is the fanbase, not the band. And yeah, it sucks that Mike Love (why won't anyone on the "inside" actually say his name? Who are they fooling?) doesn't want a handful of solo Dennis tracks in the box. But am I going to lose my mind and never listen to a song penned by "someone who doesn't want solo Dennis songs on a box set" again? No. I'll still buy the box and enjoy what's being put out there, because I wouldn't have known that solo Dennis Wilson songs were even being considered for the box without insiders leaking it in the first place.

I swear some people on this board hate Mike Love more than they like the freaking Beach Boys.

He's a part of the band! He should have a say! Jon, Howie, HeyJude and the rest of us aren't. We all chose to like a band fronted by Mike Love. There's consequences that come with it.

While it's impossible to go into specifics right now, I think your characterization of a "handful" is not accurate. What if it was all, or virtually all?

Also, wanting Dennis material on the boxed set does not preclude appreciating Mike's contribution to the band. To suggest so is a slap in the face to the people who work on these sets, who speak *directly* to Mike and all of the band members. And to fans for that matter.

As to the rest of the "everybody hates Mike Love" stuff, it's been said a thousand times. Apart from the occasional troll, nobody here hates Mike. They want Mike's material on this boxed set!


Guys, enough with the "slap in the face to people who work on these sets." They're not storming the beach at Normandy, for Christ's sake. They're working on a Beach Boys anthology.

At this point this is just trolling.

Disagreeing with someone isn't trolling. I'm just not going to overdramatize and participate in groupthink.

Nah, I'm gonna stick with calling it what amounts to trolling. You have stated that you could essentially take or leave this set. So all you're doing is arguing semantics about your opinion of what does or doesn't carry weight or meaning in this discussion.



Can you point to where I stated I could "essentially take or leave this set?"

We're all doing the same thing! You're also "arguing semantics about your opinion of what does and doesn't carry weight or meaning in this discussion." You just think your opinion is more valuable than mine. So, mine is "trolling."

I have information you don't. It's not your fault, and I understand the frustration with the level of information that can be dispensed. I guess what I'm saying is that I can't expect you to know that my input regarding this set is more informed than yours. But in this one case, it is.

You seem to not be particularly troubled with the idea of this set not coming out. You seem to be much more interested in and energized by criticizing how others *do care* about it.

So yeah, it's effectively trolling I think.

OK, so now I'll ask you to "point to where I stated I could 'essentially take or leave this set'" again and ask you to point to where I "seem to not be particularly troubled with the idea of this set not coming out."

I'm not really sure what you're trying to accomplish here, but when you start lying about things people have and haven't posted and twisting their words, it gets pretty weird.
7  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: October 12, 2020, 03:47:32 PM
Well, he recorded it in 1970 and 1971, he died in 1983, and it never came out. So, I have absolutely no clue what he thinks of that material. Do I know for a fact that he loved it and deemed it worthy for release? Absofreakinlutely not. Do I know for a fact that he never wanted it to be released? Absofreakinlutely not.

I have no idea. You have no idea.

I'd love to hear it. But my argument for hearing it absolutely is not going to be, "Dennis wanted me to hear it!"

All of this is missing the point. Nobody is saying Dennis wanted us to hear this stuff. For the millionth time as I've been saying, NONE of the band members have taken a strong shine to spearheading archival releases.

They used to do mine old stuff for "new" albums back a million years ago when they were still an actual recording act.

Now they're a trademark and a holding company, with a vault full of a cache of unreleased material that bests ANY band's out there. By leaps and bounds.

As has been with past archival releases, there are folks trying to get this stuff released. That's why it happens. They do all the work, and then convince the band to let it happen.

That's what's happening now, only for a plethora of reasons, it's hitting a bunch of snags, snags that might be untangled if the band knows that fans know what's going on.

If your ethos when it comes to BB releases is "Meh, whatever. If it ends up released then I'll enjoy it", then there's no need to discuss the work others are trying to do to make it happen, and you can just sit back and fold your arms and wait for something (or nothing) to appear.

Nobody is saying that? Yes. Someone is saying that. It's CenturyDeprived. He's saying that.

No, nobody asserted that they know Dennis wanted this material released or heard.

Indeed, we *all know* that none of the members wanted this stuff released or heard at the time. That's why it's UNRELEASED.

He was asking the seemingly semi-rhetorical question of "Does anybody think if Dennis were alive that he'd just say "meh, whatever" if all of his material was removed from this set?"

It's obviously an unanswerable hypothetical question.  All else being equal, if Dennis were still part of the BRI mechanism and of a similar position as the other members, I don't think it's crazy to think that, once he had been open to archival releases, that he wouldn't support another member trying to nix all of his material on the set.

I don't think anybody thinks "What would Dennis have wanted?" is like the ultimate, mic-drop question to post regarding this set. But isn't it something to add to the equation a little bit? Especially since his estate doesn't have any corporate share anymore, and his heirs seem to, at least in some cases, have a pretty hands-off approach to Dennis's legacy at this point?

I'm not trying to be overly-dramatic, but someone should be fighting for Dennis. Jon Stebbins has done a lot of that lifting over the years. Is it so difficult for fans to simply say "hrmmm, I don't think his stuff should be removed from this set"?
If that's all it was, then sure.

But god knows how many pages ago, it was all about, "what would Al and the Wilsons and Dennis' family think of this?" rather than, "I don't think his stuff should be removed from the set."

It's the overdramatization and projection onto important people that I'm tired of.
8  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: October 12, 2020, 03:44:18 PM
I'm certainly in the minority here, and while I respect the work people like Howie and Jon have done for the band, if my choice is to bemoan the loss of a handful of solo Dennis Wilson songs or appreciate Mike Love's enormous contributions to the band, I'm going with the latter, the Lovester.

It feels like this thread/fanbase/forum has turned it, "Listen, you're either for Feel Flows and on the side of Jon Stebbins and Howie Edelson or you're with Mike Love!"

I'd love to get the complete Feel Flows package. But as I've said previously, it seems like those most passionate to get it out into the ether is the fanbase, not the band. And yeah, it sucks that Mike Love (why won't anyone on the "inside" actually say his name? Who are they fooling?) doesn't want a handful of solo Dennis tracks in the box. But am I going to lose my mind and never listen to a song penned by "someone who doesn't want solo Dennis songs on a box set" again? No. I'll still buy the box and enjoy what's being put out there, because I wouldn't have known that solo Dennis Wilson songs were even being considered for the box without insiders leaking it in the first place.

I swear some people on this board hate Mike Love more than they like the freaking Beach Boys.

He's a part of the band! He should have a say! Jon, Howie, HeyJude and the rest of us aren't. We all chose to like a band fronted by Mike Love. There's consequences that come with it.

While it's impossible to go into specifics right now, I think your characterization of a "handful" is not accurate. What if it was all, or virtually all?

Also, wanting Dennis material on the boxed set does not preclude appreciating Mike's contribution to the band. To suggest so is a slap in the face to the people who work on these sets, who speak *directly* to Mike and all of the band members. And to fans for that matter.

As to the rest of the "everybody hates Mike Love" stuff, it's been said a thousand times. Apart from the occasional troll, nobody here hates Mike. They want Mike's material on this boxed set!


Guys, enough with the "slap in the face to people who work on these sets." They're not storming the beach at Normandy, for Christ's sake. They're working on a Beach Boys anthology.

At this point this is just trolling.

Disagreeing with someone isn't trolling. I'm just not going to overdramatize and participate in groupthink.

Nah, I'm gonna stick with calling it what amounts to trolling. You have stated that you could essentially take or leave this set. So all you're doing is arguing semantics about your opinion of what does or doesn't carry weight or meaning in this discussion.



Can you point to where I stated I could "essentially take or leave this set?"

We're all doing the same thing! You're also "arguing semantics about your opinion of what does and doesn't carry weight or meaning in this discussion." You just think your opinion is more valuable than mine. So, mine is "trolling."
9  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: October 12, 2020, 03:41:11 PM
Knowing how unmotivated the band has been forever when it comes to pushing archival releases (and more specifically *recognizing* the intrinsic value of their archive), and knowing the political minefield that the BB world always has been and always will be, and then knowing the people working on these sets who navigate *all of that*, I have to say it's a d*ck move to react to a few positive comments about them by saying "they're not storming the beach at Normandy."



To take what I said as a "slap in the face to the people who work on these sets" was a dramatic mischaracterization, and it's what goes on over and over and over and over and over on this board.

Someone says something you disagree with. And then it becomes disrespectful to this person, this person, this person and this person.

I'll just boil this down again. I appreciate everyone's efforts in compiling these archival releases. It's awesome.

But Mike is in the band. And if he doesn't want something to represent the band that he helped form 59 years ago, then who the hell am I to call him a bastard and tell him it should?
10  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: October 12, 2020, 03:35:41 PM
Well, he recorded it in 1970 and 1971, he died in 1983, and it never came out. So, I have absolutely no clue what he thinks of that material. Do I know for a fact that he loved it and deemed it worthy for release? Absofreakinlutely not. Do I know for a fact that he never wanted it to be released? Absofreakinlutely not.

I have no idea. You have no idea.

I'd love to hear it. But my argument for hearing it absolutely is not going to be, "Dennis wanted me to hear it!"

All of this is missing the point. Nobody is saying Dennis wanted us to hear this stuff. For the millionth time as I've been saying, NONE of the band members have taken a strong shine to spearheading archival releases.

They used to do mine old stuff for "new" albums back a million years ago when they were still an actual recording act.

Now they're a trademark and a holding company, with a vault full of a cache of unreleased material that bests ANY band's out there. By leaps and bounds.

As has been with past archival releases, there are folks trying to get this stuff released. That's why it happens. They do all the work, and then convince the band to let it happen.

That's what's happening now, only for a plethora of reasons, it's hitting a bunch of snags, snags that might be untangled if the band knows that fans know what's going on.

If your ethos when it comes to BB releases is "Meh, whatever. If it ends up released then I'll enjoy it", then there's no need to discuss the work others are trying to do to make it happen, and you can just sit back and fold your arms and wait for something (or nothing) to appear.

Nobody is saying that? Yes. Someone is saying that. It's CenturyDeprived. He's saying that.
11  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: October 12, 2020, 03:33:52 PM
I'm certainly in the minority here, and while I respect the work people like Howie and Jon have done for the band, if my choice is to bemoan the loss of a handful of solo Dennis Wilson songs or appreciate Mike Love's enormous contributions to the band, I'm going with the latter, the Lovester.

It feels like this thread/fanbase/forum has turned it, "Listen, you're either for Feel Flows and on the side of Jon Stebbins and Howie Edelson or you're with Mike Love!"

I'd love to get the complete Feel Flows package. But as I've said previously, it seems like those most passionate to get it out into the ether is the fanbase, not the band. And yeah, it sucks that Mike Love (why won't anyone on the "inside" actually say his name? Who are they fooling?) doesn't want a handful of solo Dennis tracks in the box. But am I going to lose my mind and never listen to a song penned by "someone who doesn't want solo Dennis songs on a box set" again? No. I'll still buy the box and enjoy what's being put out there, because I wouldn't have known that solo Dennis Wilson songs were even being considered for the box without insiders leaking it in the first place.

I swear some people on this board hate Mike Love more than they like the freaking Beach Boys.

He's a part of the band! He should have a say! Jon, Howie, HeyJude and the rest of us aren't. We all chose to like a band fronted by Mike Love. There's consequences that come with it.

While it's impossible to go into specifics right now, I think your characterization of a "handful" is not accurate. What if it was all, or virtually all?

Also, wanting Dennis material on the boxed set does not preclude appreciating Mike's contribution to the band. To suggest so is a slap in the face to the people who work on these sets, who speak *directly* to Mike and all of the band members. And to fans for that matter.

As to the rest of the "everybody hates Mike Love" stuff, it's been said a thousand times. Apart from the occasional troll, nobody here hates Mike. They want Mike's material on this boxed set!


Guys, enough with the "slap in the face to people who work on these sets." They're not storming the beach at Normandy, for Christ's sake. They're working on a Beach Boys anthology.

At this point this is just trolling.

Disagreeing with someone isn't trolling. I'm just not going to overdramatize and participate in groupthink.
12  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: October 12, 2020, 03:32:52 PM
because I wouldn't have known that solo Dennis Wilson songs were even being considered for the box without insiders leaking it in the first place.

THIS. EVERYBODY READ ABOVE.

You've seemingly accidentally stumbled across a main crux of what's going on in this thread.

It offers a perfect explanation for why people in the know who want this set out would WANT FANS TO KNOW that Dennis songs are/were on the set, and also a very good explanation for why some parties would surely NOT want folks to ever have known that Dennis material was on it, or that it was sitting there ready to go for eons.

I just can't wrap my head around a fan, a *real* fan of the band, of its entire history, being told "Hey, guess what, there was going to be a bunch of Dennis material on this boxed set", and then told that the material might be deleted, and then to come away with a reaction of "Well, gee, I wouldn't have known the stuff was there in the first place if someone hadn't told me, so what's the big deal?"

Aint that the truth, HJ. And it seems that if someone has the below mindset about Mike:

He's a part of the band! He should have a say!  

that such a mindset would in theory be based on what's morally, ethically appropriate, with the person presumably believing that all members of this band should simply "have a say". Well guess what? DENNIS CARL WILSON was a member of this band! He's just unfortunately not living, but ya know, if we're going to look at this from a purely "moral" or "ethical" manner, Dennis and his estate should have a say.

But due to tragic circumstances that are well documented (with his shares being sold), they don't. And that doesn't magically "make it right", so this would seemingly put the original mindset into some sort of moral conundrum.  So is that mindset then going to morphs into "sorry Dennis is no longer living, but what I really mean is that all living members should have a say, and as for Dennis's estate selling his shares way back then, well womp womp tough sh*t"?"

There's no real middle ground on that. It's an appalling thing to think if anyone has that mindset. Mike clearly does, and has historically taken full advantage of which Wilsons are living or not in order to build up his dream egofied version of the band. Just because things happened to have evolved into the current situation due to circumstances, doesn't make it right, and doesn't mean we have to defend the current power structure that's allowing the mutilation and butchering of DW's material.

Annnnnnnd we're back to projecting our feelings onto other people. And now we're projecting our feelings onto Dennis Wilson.

Do you really truly think Dennis would sit idly by, if he was here, and let all of his material be removed? Please actually answer the question, I feel a duck/dodge coming on.

Well, he recorded it in 1970 and 1971, he died in 1983, and it never came out. So, I have absolutely no clue what he thinks of that material. Do I know for a fact that he loved it and deemed it worthy for release? Absofreakinlutely not. Do I know for a fact that he didn't never wanted it to be released? Absofreakinlutely not.

I have no idea. You have no idea.

I'd love to hear it. But my argument for hearing it absolutely is not going to be, "Dennis wanted me to hear it!"

At minimum, I think it's rich to think that he'd be anything but incensed that of all people, it would be Mike who would be throwing weight behind removing the material.

Maybe. Maybe not. I have no idea. You don't either. You feel that way, and you're projecting your feelings back onto Dennis.

You can want to hear the material without an attempt to evoke emotion by mentioning Dennis' name.
13  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: October 12, 2020, 03:21:51 PM
because I wouldn't have known that solo Dennis Wilson songs were even being considered for the box without insiders leaking it in the first place.

THIS. EVERYBODY READ ABOVE.

You've seemingly accidentally stumbled across a main crux of what's going on in this thread.

It offers a perfect explanation for why people in the know who want this set out would WANT FANS TO KNOW that Dennis songs are/were on the set, and also a very good explanation for why some parties would surely NOT want folks to ever have known that Dennis material was on it, or that it was sitting there ready to go for eons.

I just can't wrap my head around a fan, a *real* fan of the band, of its entire history, being told "Hey, guess what, there was going to be a bunch of Dennis material on this boxed set", and then told that the material might be deleted, and then to come away with a reaction of "Well, gee, I wouldn't have known the stuff was there in the first place if someone hadn't told me, so what's the big deal?"

Aint that the truth, HJ. And it seems that if someone has the below mindset about Mike:

He's a part of the band! He should have a say!  

that such a mindset would in theory be based on what's morally, ethically appropriate, with the person presumably believing that all members of this band should simply "have a say". Well guess what? DENNIS CARL WILSON was a member of this band! He's just unfortunately not living, but ya know, if we're going to look at this from a purely "moral" or "ethical" manner, Dennis and his estate should have a say.

But due to tragic circumstances that are well documented (with his shares being sold), they don't. And that doesn't magically "make it right", so this would seemingly put the original mindset into some sort of moral conundrum.  So is that mindset then going to morphs into "sorry Dennis is no longer living, but what I really mean is that all living members should have a say, and as for Dennis's estate selling his shares way back then, well womp womp tough sh*t"?"

There's no real middle ground on that. It's an appalling thing to think if anyone has that mindset. Mike clearly does, and has historically taken full advantage of which Wilsons are living or not in order to build up his dream egofied version of the band. Just because things happened to have evolved into the current situation due to circumstances, doesn't make it right, and doesn't mean we have to defend the current power structure that's allowing the mutilation and butchering of DW's material.

Annnnnnnd we're back to projecting our feelings onto other people. And now we're projecting our feelings onto Dennis Wilson.

Do you really truly think Dennis would sit idly by, if he was here, and let all of his material be removed? Please actually answer the question, I feel a duck/dodge coming on.

Well, he recorded it in 1970 and 1971, he died in 1983, and it never came out. So, I have absolutely no clue what he thinks of that material. Do I know for a fact that he loved it and deemed it worthy for release? Absofreakinlutely not. Do I know for a fact that he never wanted it to be released? Absofreakinlutely not.

I have no idea. You have no idea.

I'd love to hear it. But my argument for hearing it absolutely is not going to be, "Dennis wanted me to hear it!"
14  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: October 12, 2020, 03:17:50 PM
because I wouldn't have known that solo Dennis Wilson songs were even being considered for the box without insiders leaking it in the first place.

THIS. EVERYBODY READ ABOVE.

You've seemingly accidentally stumbled across a main crux of what's going on in this thread.

It offers a perfect explanation for why people in the know who want this set out would WANT FANS TO KNOW that Dennis songs are/were on the set, and also a very good explanation for why some parties would surely NOT want folks to ever have known that Dennis material was on it, or that it was sitting there ready to go for eons.

I just can't wrap my head around a fan, a *real* fan of the band, of its entire history, being told "Hey, guess what, there was going to be a bunch of Dennis material on this boxed set", and then told that the material might be deleted, and then to come away with a reaction of "Well, gee, I wouldn't have known the stuff was there in the first place if someone hadn't told me, so what's the big deal?"

Aint that the truth, HJ. And it seems that if someone has the below mindset about Mike:

He's a part of the band! He should have a say!  

that such a mindset would in theory be based on what's morally, ethically appropriate, with the person presumably believing that all members of this band should simply "have a say". Well guess what? DENNIS CARL WILSON was a member of this band! He's just unfortunately not living, but ya know, if we're going to look at this from a purely "moral" or "ethical" manner, Dennis and his estate should have a say.

But due to tragic circumstances that are well documented (with his shares being sold), they don't. And that doesn't magically "make it right", so this would seemingly put the original mindset into some sort of moral conundrum.  So is that mindset then going to morphs into "sorry Dennis is no longer living, but what I really mean is that all living members should have a say, and as for Dennis's estate selling his shares way back then, well womp womp tough sh*t"?"

There's no real middle ground on that. It's an appalling thing to think if anyone has that mindset. Mike clearly does, and has historically taken full advantage of which Wilsons are living or not in order to build up his dream egofied version of the band. Just because things happened to have evolved into the current situation due to circumstances, doesn't make it right, and doesn't mean we have to defend the current power structure that's allowing the mutilation and butchering of DW's material.

Annnnnnnd we're back to projecting our feelings onto other people. And now we're projecting our feelings onto Dennis Wilson.
15  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: October 12, 2020, 03:16:52 PM
because I wouldn't have known that solo Dennis Wilson songs were even being considered for the box without insiders leaking it in the first place.

THIS. EVERYBODY READ ABOVE.

You've seemingly accidentally stumbled across a main crux of what's going on in this thread.

It offers a perfect explanation for why people in the know who want this set out would WANT FANS TO KNOW that Dennis songs are/were on the set, and also a very good explanation for why some parties would surely NOT want folks to ever have known that Dennis material was on it, or that it was sitting there ready to go for eons.

I just can't wrap my head around a fan, a *real* fan of the band, of its entire history, being told "Hey, guess what, there was going to be a bunch of Dennis material on this boxed set", and then told that the material might be deleted, and then to come away with a reaction of "Well, gee, I wouldn't have known the stuff was there in the first place if someone hadn't told me, so what's the big deal?"

You're such a hero, Hey Jude.
16  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: October 12, 2020, 03:15:11 PM
I'm certainly in the minority here, and while I respect the work people like Howie and Jon have done for the band, if my choice is to bemoan the loss of a handful of solo Dennis Wilson songs or appreciate Mike Love's enormous contributions to the band, I'm going with the latter, the Lovester.

It feels like this thread/fanbase/forum has turned it, "Listen, you're either for Feel Flows and on the side of Jon Stebbins and Howie Edelson or you're with Mike Love!"

I'd love to get the complete Feel Flows package. But as I've said previously, it seems like those most passionate to get it out into the ether is the fanbase, not the band. And yeah, it sucks that Mike Love (why won't anyone on the "inside" actually say his name? Who are they fooling?) doesn't want a handful of solo Dennis tracks in the box. But am I going to lose my mind and never listen to a song penned by "someone who doesn't want solo Dennis songs on a box set" again? No. I'll still buy the box and enjoy what's being put out there, because I wouldn't have known that solo Dennis Wilson songs were even being considered for the box without insiders leaking it in the first place.

I swear some people on this board hate Mike Love more than they like the freaking Beach Boys.

He's a part of the band! He should have a say! Jon, Howie, HeyJude and the rest of us aren't. We all chose to like a band fronted by Mike Love. There's consequences that come with it.

While it's impossible to go into specifics right now, I think your characterization of a "handful" is not accurate. What if it was all, or virtually all?

Also, wanting Dennis material on the boxed set does not preclude appreciating Mike's contribution to the band. To suggest so is a slap in the face to the people who work on these sets, who speak *directly* to Mike and all of the band members. And to fans for that matter.

As to the rest of the "everybody hates Mike Love" stuff, it's been said a thousand times. Apart from the occasional troll, nobody here hates Mike. They want Mike's material on this boxed set!


Guys, enough with the "slap in the face to people who work on these sets." They're not storming the beach at Normandy, for Christ's sake. They're working on a Beach Boys anthology.
17  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: October 12, 2020, 02:24:09 PM
I'm certainly in the minority here, and while I respect the work people like Howie and Jon have done for the band, if my choice is to bemoan the loss of a handful of solo Dennis Wilson songs or appreciate Mike Love's enormous contributions to the band, I'm going with the latter, the Lovester.

It feels like this thread/fanbase/forum has turned it, "Listen, you're either for Feel Flows and on the side of Jon Stebbins and Howie Edelson or you're with Mike Love!"

I'd love to get the complete Feel Flows package. But as I've said previously, it seems like those most passionate to get it out into the ether is the fanbase, not the band. And yeah, it sucks that Mike Love (why won't anyone on the "inside" actually say his name? Who are they fooling?) doesn't want a handful of solo Dennis tracks in the box. But am I going to lose my mind and never listen to a song penned by "someone who doesn't want solo Dennis songs on a box set" again? No. I'll still buy the box and enjoy what's being put out there, because I wouldn't have known that solo Dennis Wilson songs were even being considered for the box without insiders leaking it in the first place.

I swear some people on this board hate Mike Love more than they like the freaking Beach Boys.

He's a part of the band! He should have a say! Jon, Howie, HeyJude and the rest of us aren't. We all chose to like a band fronted by Mike Love. There's consequences that come with it.
18  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: October 11, 2020, 07:41:49 PM
Maybe I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but that solo Dennis material has been around for ::checks notes:: 50 whole years. If it so important to the Wilsons, Al and Dennis' sons that it gets released ... wouldn't it be out by now?

It's highly possible that there was never until now an approved budget to go back into the vault tapes and properly mix and master and do all of that stuff to that material. Who would pay for that? It's also possible that there's plenty of material or elements that were newly discovered.

On top of that, when it comes to marketing, it's only really in the last dozen years that the stature of Dennis and his genius has become better known thanks to the ongoing efforts of wonderful folks like Jon. It's not necessarily easy to find a marketable home for material like that, but a box like FF which highlights the contributions of ALL members of the era would certainly be the perfect place for it. For both DW's material to shine and get the most listeners, and for it to be a reciprocal thing for the whole box's contents to get more attention and praise.

I'm sure that the music of smile that Brian recorded in the 1960s was very important to him, but there were also many reasons why it didn't come out. I don't think this has anything whatsoever to do with the children of Dennis not caring, or about the material not meaning enough to them.

I don't know. Maybe it just feels a bit exploitative to me for people to project their own feelings onto Al, the Wilsons or Dennis' children to justify their own desire for this music or hatred for Mike Love.
19  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: October 11, 2020, 01:39:01 PM
Maybe I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but that solo Dennis material has been around for ::checks notes:: 50 whole years. If it so important to the Wilsons, Al and Dennis' sons that it gets released ... wouldn't it be out by now?
20  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Carl's personal music tastes on: October 10, 2020, 09:37:55 PM
That is pretty cool.  What were the circumstances around you getting backstage to speak with Carl?

I was a junior in high school. I presented myself to the promoter as a reporter/photographer for my school newspaper. That was a slight exaggeration. But I did get into the hall before the guys arrived. When the guys arrived at the boys club, Dennis looked incredibly cool in a striped tee shirt, but he wouldn’t let me take a picture until he got cleaned up. Carl spoke to the promoter about the show not being sold out and suggested the tickets might have been lower priced.  Carl was totally sweet and charming.  He was curious about my girlfriends little tape recorder.  He asked “American.” Nope, Japanese.  Bruce was an AH, answering ever question with “We’ll know when we get home and see Brian.” I asked Al if they had the cool white suits I saw them wear the year before in Buffalo.  He said yes, but did not engage. I was impressed when we heard the NYC horn players practicing “Wouldn’t it be Nice.” My girlfriend was totally shocked when one of the Pickle Brothers called someone a “ c*ck sucker.” Audible gasp. LOL Just before they went on stage, they posed for a group photo (in Ian’s book) as they sang “Chattanooga Choo Choo.” Al sarcastically asked if that was my “official camera?” a Kodak instamatic I used while my Minolta was in the repair shop. Bruce was concerned that the flash would make a glare from one of his fillings. BB humor. Great memories.

Another story of Bruce running scalding and frigid with fans. Has anyone in the band ever talked about Bruce's bipolar tendencies?
21  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: October 09, 2020, 12:32:57 PM
If John Stamos is privy to the goings on re: FEEL FLOWS -- that's most likely coming from a source that will undoubtedly wipe ALL of Dennis' brilliant material off the set. Watch.

I'm having trouble understanding the connection here.

If details are being shared with John Stamos, then Dennis Wilson's material will be removed from the set?

I'm assuming you're talking about Mike. Why is the connection to Stamos being related to this comment? Don't we know that Mike is involved with the box set anyway? What does Stamos' knowledge have to do with anything? Couldn't we know that Mike could wipe out Dennis' material even without knowing that Stamos is aware of what's going on?
22  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Feel Flows box set on: October 08, 2020, 05:52:30 PM
Before Stamos came in to save the day (I read it as the set is coming out soon-ish), this thread had reached peak ridiculousness.

"I know something, and it could be very important but I can't say what it is. Why am I posting this? What is the purpose of this post? Well, it's nothing else than to tell you that I know something and you don't, and that I'm very important and can't tell you."

Folks, there's no point in telling people that you know something if you can't tell them what it is.
23  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Not sold on MIU yet.... on: October 04, 2020, 08:24:51 PM
I wish they had cranked the guitar on Pitter Patter. That would have made a pretty cool rocker. Bring up the guitars a little more, and it would have fit on Holland or CATP.

Also, I think Sweet Sunday Kinda Love is probably the most underrated Beach Boys song.
24  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Unpopular Beach Boys opinions on: August 28, 2020, 06:50:21 PM
Yeah, the "the" also doesn't ruin the flow at all, because it's barely audible during the beat that comes between "up" and "good" in the first line.
25  Smiley Smile Stuff / General On Topic Discussions / Re: Not sold on MIU yet.... on: August 16, 2020, 05:14:19 PM
I really like Sweet Sunday Kinda Love, Pitter Patter and My Diane.

Match Point, Wontcha Come Out Tonight?, She's Got Rhythm, Come Go With Me, Winds of Change and Peggy Sue are all fine. Not songs I'd ever put on a playlist.

I might like Kona Coast and Belles of Paris more if I didn't associate them with Christmas from the Ultimate album.

Hey, Little Tomboy is a no thanks for me.

I prefer L.A. because I like the Carl and Dennis songs that are on there. Overall, though, there's one pretty good album worth of material out of both records.

I call this Beach Boys Tonight!

1. Good Timin'
2. Sweet Sunday
3. Pitter Patter
4. Wontcha Come out Tonight?
5. She's Got Rhythm
6. Match Point Of Our Love

7. My Diane
8. Full Saile
9. Angel Come Home
10. Love Surrounds Me
11. Goin' South
12. Baby Blue
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 ... 28
gfx
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Page created in 0.803 seconds with 21 queries.
Helios Multi design by Bloc
gfx
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!